The Prices have finally driven me out of the hobby

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**Sidstyler**

Harriticus wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Also:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/541941.page

Can we just get a fething catch all thread for this repeated inane thread? If not, the same thing is just going to be regurgitated every month or so.

It's almost like a vast amount of wargamers have the same problem with a product, indicating a serious problem exists!

No, there's no problems, everything is fine. It's just a vocal minority of whiners who want free models, like always.

**-Loki-**

Ascalam wrote:
I find these threads hilarious, personally.

I haven't bought anything for my Orks in a good while, but that doesn't stop me from using the ones i have.

I buy maybe one box of troops or elites a month, as tournament entries, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the army i already possess.

The hobby is spendy, to be sure, and getting more so, but you don't HAVE to keep buying to enjoy the hobby. You can paint/convert/base the ones you already have.

I've reached this point with my Tyranids. I've got a 1500pt army I'm happy with, and a few extra units to bulk it up for larger games, and a heirophant to get finished for Apocalypse. So I'm pretty much done buying Tyranids, though I'll buy any new kits that interest me when the next codex comes out.

That doesn't mean I'm done with GW, nor that I'll just quit playing because I've quit buying. That's why I recommend people keep their 40k stuff if they try another game - if you ever get the itch to go back to 40k, it won't be costing you a kidney to buy a new army.

**cincydooley**

insaniak wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Also:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/541941.page

Can we just get a fething catch all thread for this repeated inane thread? If not, the same thing is just going to be regurgitated every month or so.

There's a very easy way for you to not read threads that don't interest you.

Yes, while people continue to be unhappy about something, they will continue to discuss it. Just as they will when they are happy about something. I don't recall having seen anyone suggesting that we should try to prevent the monthly 'GW customer service is great!' threads...

I see what you're doing here, but the thread I started was EXPRESSLY started because the service given was above and beyond what is have expected from any company.

We lock redundant threads regarding new products and have people post in a singular one. My point is that we should simply have a "GW priced me out" catch all thread.

And honestly Loki, of people are missing the "alternatives to GW" thread, which is what I think you're referring to, it's because they're lazy or blind. And yes. I knew it was there. I've directed people to it before.

**insaniak**

If you really want to discuss forum policy on repetitive topics, start a new thread on it. Neither this, nor any other thread you have no interest in participating in, is an appropriate place for it.

**frozenwastes**

cincydooley wrote:
I see what you're doing here, but the thread I started was EXPRESSLY started because the service given was above and beyond what is have expected from any company.

Everyone thinks that when they express themselves it is unique and deserving of attention.

I think we're going to see an increase in prices related threads as each new release raises the average price up even further and people say "no more." It's been happening over the last half decade and shows no sign of letting up. And they should all be allowed to post because they all have their unique particularities, like someone inadvertently equating GW's offerings with the entire hobby. Or the repeated advocacy of keeping and playing with what you have while simultaneously exploring other options-- that was far more present in this thread than the last one.

I also want to extend my gratitude at being reminded to check out the current state of affairs in the fan made inquisimunda documents. I've been paying attention to them in the past, but got distracted by other rules and I think I'll give them another look.

**Smacks**

I stopped buying from GW a few years ago on principle. I won't try to defend them.

However, I will say that miniatures do hold their value quite well. GW's constant price gouging drives a pretty healthy 2nd hand market. I think most of my OOP stuff has actually gone up in value rather than down (not that I'm ready to part with it just yet). I wish I could have bought more stuff when I was young (especially Squats). I only saw the money going out, I never realized that they would actually be a profitable investment.

That is something I always tell myself whenever I buy a new Fantasy Flight or CMoN game. It seems like you are parting with a lot of money, but if you look after your stuff you can always resell it for a good price. And if you have OOP stuff in good condition, or you're a decent painter then you'll probably get it all back and more down the line.

**Pacific**

cincydooley wrote:

And honestly Loki, of people are missing the "alternatives to GW" thread, which is what I think you're referring to, it's because they're lazy or blind. And yes. I knew it was there. I've directed people to it before.

To be fair, I was a member of the forum for some time before noticing that thread!

I'm not blind, although the lazy part might be somewhat accurate..

**madman12367**

@ Cincydooley - Sorry, I missed that post, pardon me.

With regards to other games I was looking into something like necromunda? I see that's small scale and I could possibly still use some of my 40K minis in that. That may be a better suited game for me..

**Crimson-King2120**

I would recommend the Batman Arkham City table top game its a small skirmish game with games taking from 1hr to 3 depending on rep cost the rules are quite dolid with a few mistranslations however it is free and there is a group on Facebook called Arkham city Limits the creaters are usually online to answer any questions there is already quite a wide range eith 5 factions already availible with new realeses every month the models are beautiful they may seem expensive but when you only need 3 or 4 to have a decent gang its a lot cheaper than 40k the rules are a free download here www.Knightmodels.com the range of minis is avsilible from a few uk retailers such as titangames firestorm wayland etc

**Pacific**

madman12367 wrote:
@ Cincydooley - Sorry, I missed that post, pardon me.

With regards to other games I was looking into something like necromunda? I see that's small scale and I could possibly still use some of my 40K minis in that. That may be a better suited game for me..

Infinity is similar to Necromunda in that it's a skirmish game, but is fully supported by the company that makes the game and is on the 'wave' of popularity right now.
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/
And although speaking subjectively, it's the best skirmish ruleset I have ever played - the mechanics are awesome.

There is also the forthcoming 'Deadzone' from Mantic which is due to be released before Xmas this year, and something a lot of people are waiting for.

Of course both games you will be able to proxy your existing 40k mini collection.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Yup, many GW prices are ridiculous, but with a bit of judicious swapping, buying the bigger items from discounters, and customising, it's not an expensive hobby if you factor in enjoyable hours spent, vs money required. Factor in the many enjoyable hours spent moaning about GW, and it's even more of a bargain!

**Easy E**

I know when I was done with GW, it was a big moment for me. I had been playing it for about 15 years at the time. Saying good-bye to somethign that had been a big part of my life for 15 years was a big deal to me. Granted, I also learned in life that things that are a big deal for me; no one else cares about.

@OP- If you don't dump your 40K modles, I sugget you try playing an older edition with close friends, or give Tommorrow's War a try. You don't have change model colections, just rules.

**Crimson-King2120**

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Yup, many GW prices are ridiculous, but with a bit of judicious swapping, buying the bigger items from discounters, and customising, it's not an expensive hobby if you factor in enjoyable hours spent, vs money required. Factor in the many enjoyable hours spent moaning about GW, and it's even more of a bargain!

the thing is its not just the prices anymore the gameplay itself has started to decline with GW sacrificing playabillity for maximum profits by making "flavour of the month armys"

**frozenwastes**

Yup, many GW prices are ridiculous, but with a bit of judicious swapping, buying the bigger items from discounters, and customising, it's not an expensive hobby if you factor in enjoyable hours spent, vs money required. Factor in the many enjoyable hours spent moaning about GW, and it's even more of a bargain!

It's certainly true that an added benefit of being GW's customer is that when you finally get sick of their crap, you'll have a large community to commiserate with.

**KommissarKiln**

Badablack wrote:
It is still quite possible to put together a complete Warhammer army without breaking the bank. I have put together a detailed step-by-step list of the ways to go about this.

Step 1: Don't buy full price battleforces off the GW website. These cost exactly the same as buying all the individual bits and leave you with a bunch of stuff you probably won't run anyway. As a matter of fact, don't buy anything off the GW website.

Step 2: Look at eBay, Bartertown, Craigslist, and our very own Dakkadakka for people selling their armies at enormous discounts. Or one of the many discount online stores that sell at 10-40% off. Use these stores to buy your paints, modelling supplies, and assorted gaming paraphernalia as well.

Step 3: Use third-party models to supplement your warhammer diet. The GW special forces are not going to break through the dingy storefront window of your FLGS and drag you off for questioning for using some reaper minis.

Step 4: You are not under any obligation to use the latest and greatest units to make a viable warhammer list. Heldrakes and Riptides and Wraithknights are nice looking models with good rules, but you will not be crushed underfoot for not running 3 of them, nor will people laugh at you and shun your presence.

By following these easy steps you too can enjoy playing the exciting game of Warhammer without spending too much money. Do not worry, however! You will still be allowed to complain on the internet. It is your patriotic duty as a wargamer to complain about your hobby, and no man or woman has the right to tell you otherwise.

This.
The one thing I'd do differently is buy things full price if it's from my FLGS. I want to inject a bit of life into my store to keep it going, and pray that gw doesn't take 99.8% of that money I handed the cashier.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Re armies of the month. We play nids. It cost us around £28 to update our army with 6th edition ( a new tervigon, and we swapped out some wings for a flyrant). We had £20 in gift vouchers which more than covered a new rulebook (bought Dark Vengeance and sold the extra bits for around £55).

It will cost us at least the same to keep up to date with the new 'Nid dex, if it arrives. You're probably talking around £60 a year to keep an army updated. Yup, there's lots of ££ on top of that, for paint etc.

For us, that's less money than the price of a train to actually get to a game.

**Ugavine**

GW & 40K kept me in the hobby.

Speaking for myself 'The Hobby' is gaming, Board Games and RPGs, not whatever GW wants it to be.

But it was CMGs like Star Wars minis & Heroclix that nearly priced me out of my hobby. Fortunately I found the enjoyment of 40K and it's relative cheapness compared to what I was spending on CMGs. I still play a variety of Board Games but right now 40K is my favourite.

The cost of different things quite often depend on the perspective of the individual, their own available funds and the value they put on them.

**scarletsquig**

GW is not "the hobby".

There is no such thing as "the GW hobby".

There is wargaming, and you want to keep doing it, there are tons of other companies and games that are much, much much more affordable.

I bought around 200 mantic minis last week. Brand new.

The price? 25p per mini.

Wargaming doesn't have to be expensive, and there are lots more people playing other games these days, or using miniatures from other companies to play GW games.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

cincydooley wrote:
I
@Bullock - There's not a single thing "white knighty" in my post. But, you know, I appreciate that you felt the need to reduce it to that. Well played.

Some (just some, by no means all) of those complainers remind me of a fella I used to work with. He was a very "glass is half empty" guy, I'm a "glass is half full" guy I guess.

But it turned out, he wasn't just a "glass is half empty" guy. He was a "glass is half empty and anyone who can't see it is obviously a moron" guy. It's not uncommon.

**madman12367**

I may be having a moan a little but I do not wish to portray that that is the reason why I created this post. I created this post to see how other people felt about the rising prices in Games workshop and to explore possible game types that could keep the cost at a minimum and still allow me to have a fun time playing said game.

**cincydooley**

madman12367 wrote:
I may be having a moan a little but I do not wish to portray that that is the reason why I created this post. I created this post to see how other people felt about the rising prices in Games workshop and to explore possible game types that could keep the cost at a minimum and still allow me to have a fun time playing said game.

Well in THAT case:

Killzone rules are great.

**m14dude**

Dollar for dollar (or whatever currency you use), miniatures battles games are one of the cheapest hobbies out there with time factored in. Other hobbies require mass amounts of money to be spent over a longer and more frequent period. Shoot, even board games are up there in expense, even if you assume each to be $50 USD per game. One figures they play a new game once or twice before it gets shelved. That gets summed up to about 8 hours tops of gaming if it's a really long game. Don't get discouraged about the prices, just save up slowly over time and get what you can. Spend the 80+ hours with the model(s) and be merry!
Best of luck with your other ventures!

**gossipmeng**

My hobby budget is quite large and combined with my infrequent purchases - there really isn't an issue.

My two major 40k projects right now are Tau and Deathguard CSMs (I'm basically completely re-vamping my old armies - selling the old kits and replacing them with brand new miniatures). GW prices actually don't impact either project too much as I'm managing to use mostly FW.

The farsight enclave army is 12 FW variant crisis suits and some XV9s. Only GW kits I bought were 2 new broadsides and a box of fire warriors.

The only GW kits in my deathguard army (1750 pts) are 3 obliterators and a nurgle DP. The plague marines and havocs are a combination of MK III armour and death guard conversion kits. In Canadian prices forgeworld is selling a bundle of 3 30K rhinos that cost only $10 more than 3 GW plastic rhinos.

There are many armies that don't have the same kind of FW support though - and for players looking to start one of those forces.... well the prices can be brutal at times. In Canada they higher than AUS in some cases.

**marv335**

Personally I think Wargaming (GW et all) is probably my cheapest hobby.

**frozenwastes**

madman12367 wrote:I may be having a moan a little but I do not wish to portray that that is the reason why I created this post. I created this post to see how other people felt about the rising prices in Games workshop and to explore possible game types that could keep the cost at a minimum and still allow me to have a fun time playing said game.

And as you can see, the issue is so prevalent that people are creating topics about this on a regular basis. The prices and value for money for GW's products are getting bad enough that people regularly post threads about it. For many people though, the shift is gradual rather than sudden. They'll go from spending 100% on GW to slowly spending more and more on other miniatures and games. They'll unconsciously hit 50-50 and then 75-25 and then eventually hit a point where the amount they spend on GW is approaching zero. Maybe they'll get a new codex and unit or two when their army gets an update. Then a new release will come out and they'll see things like the cost per model on Dire Avengers and realize that they're done. Often they'll have already been done with GW for quite some time but are just now consciously realizing it.

There are tons of options out there for using your models. There's likely an appropriate forum for discussing any individual option you might end up exploring as well. Definitely scroll down on the main index and check out the other forums further down the page.

**frozenwastes**

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To get back on topic, I was one of the people who slowly reduced their GW purchases to the point where I was making very, very few. I would buy the occasional batch of single figure off of eBay and order the occasional box set from the UK. Then the Rest-Of-World embargo was put in place and I stopped buying new product. In January I bought a few Chaos Warriors and Chaos Knights off a guy who broke up a battalion box on eBay. I don't play 40k or WFB, but I do use my existing collection with other rules and do enjoy building and painting the plastic figures.

**Motograter**

cincydooley wrote:
Motograter wrote:
As some people have said. GW ain't the hobby. Even here in the UK gw is slowly dying off. Look at games like infinity, malifaux, hordes, warmachine, dystopian wars and legions, dropzone commander, flames of war. The possibilities for wargaming are endless

"Slowly dying off" is a hilarious statement. They were down what...2% in the UK this year? And even then it's a pretty safe assumption their gross in the UK was higher than all the other systems you mentioned combined.

Hyperbole is fun!!!!

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware you were a local in my area of the uk or know any of my friends. Gee how hyperbolic am I. Yes gw were down a mere 2% but in my area and a few others gw games are not played so feel free to hyperbole all ya like

**frozenwastes**

One thing I know cincydooley and I have discussed in the past is that changes in GW's player base is not evenly spread. There are areas where it is growing and areas where it is dropping off super fast. It's likely a matter of losing critical mass. If a given area hits a point where enough people are no longer publicly engaging with GW's products to support a local community, it'll plummet and disappear rapidly, becoming a shadow of the former state of affairs.

Add in that many GW managers have been switching their stores to not allow in store gaming and there's even less opportunity to have people publicly be engaging with their product.

The fluctuations of player rate for GW games is going to be very, very localized rather than an even distribution. So you can have the UK decline just under 5% (as you need to add inflation to the drop in sales numbers) in a single year, but the end result will be that certain concentrations will have 80%+ drops and others will see growth as local communities of gamers approach a critical mass of players.

**Ugavine**

madman12367 wrote:
I may be having a moan a little but I do not wish to portray that that is the reason why I created this post. I created this post to see how other people felt about the rising prices in Games workshop and to explore possible game types that could keep the cost at a minimum and still allow me to have a fun time playing said game.

You can keep 40K costs to a minimum by;
- sticking to one army
- don't make spontaneous purchases, plan your list
- buy smart (FLGS, online, 2nd hand, etc.)

And as many have said, there are other games and other gaming. But if you buy, buy, buy none will end up being cheaper in the long run.

If you are questioning GW prices then, as I see it, you don't put the value on the product that you are getting for the money. Are there other factors to that like you are not enjoying the game as much as you once were? If that is the case then stepping away from GW regardless of the cost is probably for the better. But if you love the game then really GW prices are not bad as far as a hobby goes.

I do hope you find the game that is for you.

**TheAuldGrump**

Warhammer 40K players are in a somewhat worse position than Fantasy players - there are a number of games that allow me to dust off, say, a Tomb Kings army, and play.

I can use the army pretty much as is for Kings of War, and if I really want then I can pull it out for the old Battlesystem game.

The look and feel of 40K... makes some armies harder to use in other games.

Others are easy - Imperial Guard in particular can be used for any number of games.

I have not played 40K in a while now, but my dwarfs and undead see regular use in KoW.

My SF gaming has been... kind of retro - I played Brilliant Lances, Star Cruiser, and Striker II not that long ago. (Gods above and below, I miss GDW.)

The Auld Grump