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The bigger point cost, weaker durability and being subject to reserve rolls seems to be big weaknesses of the Talon.

In my eyes, the main redeeming value is strafing run but is it really worth it?

 minigun762 wrote:
The bigger point cost, weaker durability and being subject to reserve rolls seems to be big weaknesses of the Talon.

In my eyes, the main redeeming value is strafing run but is it really worth it?

Is paying 55 points more for a BS5 TL ASC with 360 arc shenanigans and BS5 3 shot AC that can destroy tanks, gun down infantry and tackle flyers (better, might I add) over a unit that can't do anything effective to ground targets and requires your opponent to ignore its existence for the turn with its meagre AV11 sides and for you to score 1/10 level lucky scenario worth it? For a unit that can only be shot down by an incredibly rare set of units before it strikes, to which end 90% of the time it will without interference?


Let me dwell on that.

That's a bit of an oversimplification

1. The hunter is av 12 side, not 11
2. The hunter is quite effective at any speeder, as it still hits those with full BS. Thus it's exceedingly deadly against wave serpents, skyrays, annihilation barges, etc. It's more effective at av13 than the talon and close to being as effective vs av12, even moreso if the av12 is in the air.
3. 1 extra HP, 55 points cheaper, 60 inch range.

So yeah, it's actually pretty darn good, but it's the end all and be all solution for AA, it needs help, which is why my current plan is potentially field 1 hunter with 2 talons to cover my bases. So in the end my actual decision was whether the hunter is better than a whirlwind inthe current meta, and my conclusion is that it is mostly because of wave serpents, skyrays (it shoots them down to protect the talons), and barges (given that grav doesnt take down their shield it's good to have something not melta that pretty much garuntees a pen if it hits). I already have a TFC for anti-horde.

I am just going to say it, since it wasn't even mentioned... ADL.

A) Doesn't take up a force org slot
B) 100pts for 4 Str 7 TLed shots or 85pts for a single Str 9 shot
C) Interceptor AND Skyfire
D) Gives your TFC something to sit behind, or troops, or whatever.
E) Put the gun behind the wall to give it a cover save
F) A Dev squad Sergeant can give the gunner BS 5, or you can have a HQ man it and not worry about it.
G) You don't have to roll reserves for it like other flyers. If your flyers are your AA and they fail to show up, you don't have AA.
H) You place it as you deploy, and even if the gun is destroyed, the wall still helps.
I) This is a heck of a lot of pros

Storm Talon id say. But im a sucker for maneuverability.

Interesting that someone mentioned he had used a Mortis and Hyperios Batteries and is now switching them out considering other options. I still use both. My problem with a flyer is that there is way too much skyfire/interceptor out there. Both these units do fine on the ground. They are not OP in any way but they will hurt skimmers and flyers and still be effective against ground troops.

Martel732 wrote:
Well there is the bonus that ravens can also go tank hunting or riptide hunting after the fliers are down.

Am I the only one that likes the Stalker better than the Hunter?

I like stalkers as well, so far I've been taking one with the quad guns via the Aegis line, they go well together IMO and I still have two heavy slots left at under 2000 points. I can reliably strip between 2 and 3 HP per turn between them against AV12 and if I force the jinx then that's almost as good.

I do in fact have hyperios and the contemptor but both have been struggling a bit

Problems with the hyperios:
you get 2 for the cost of the hunter, and with that you get 2 BS3 (and this is the key problem) twin linked krak shots. So ur looking at 1.5 hits and thus .75 pens/glances per turn vs av12, at ap3, erg. With the hunter ur at like .55ish for any given turn + .22 pens/glances from any misses from previous turns. Furthermore they are ap2 so much more likely to at least stun the thing. So similar odds but the hunter isnt FW, has better range, and can move, better against av13, and better against most of our skimmers, but is easier to take out.

Thus I pick the hunter of hyperios.

Problems wth the contemptor:
the best loadout is 2 TL-LC and the CML, but that also costs.. .5 points less than 5 TH/SS terminators at the NEW cost (or 30 less than a base landraider!). That's a lot for a dreadnought with.. just av13 front (still 12 side) and a 5++. It's pretty easy to one shot him in the end, but it was worth it because he was bs 5 and never missed. With the recent apoc book tho he dropped to BS4 and thus, isnt really worth it anymore, he's just too frail.

Depends on what you are going for.

for a FA slot I'd take a squad of 3 Land Speeders over the Talon. It's twice as pricy but if you give them all the HB & ML than they are putting out 6 S8 AP3 shots between them. That's pretty killy by comparison, and against most vehicles (baring some particularly heavy ones) the S5 on the bolter also stands a solid chance of glancing off a HP or two.

Additionally the Land Speeders can be on the table turn 1 and are fast skimmers so they can will almost always be getting their shots. As well, that quad of 3 LSs has 6HP between them (very sturdy) and as you lose HP they just loose volume of shots as a squad.

Oh i would agree that speeders are very good, i just need AA lol.

Just wanted to relay my recent experience with Hunters. I know anecdotal evidence from one game is not what you should base your judgement on, but I like having plans for everything.

Lots of LOS blocking terrain, so from 2 Hunters I got maybe 4-5 shots the whole game at 2 storm ravens. He jinked 2, one missed, one immbolized him ( while hovering), and of course he landed facing targets.

Meanwhile the 2 storm ravens proceeded to shoot 3 5 man tactical squads off the relic.

Once that one storm raven was forced to land, I had nothing left to kill it.

I'm not considering Talons for AA simply because they can maneuver to get shots.

Given that neither are actually expensive there's no reason you can't have both if you dread facing down a twenty four flier Necron list some day (Dark Harvest+Codex Necrons with dual FOC).

Generally, I prefer the Storm Talons. They're better against a wider array of targets, they bring more firepower, and they can randomly hose opponent's that don't bring adequate flyer defense.

However, they're more expensive, and are usually taken in pairs. If you need some anti-air and can't find the 250 points for a pair of Talons, keeping one Hunter in reserve for 70 points isn't a terrible idea. Especially if you can manipulate your reserve rolls to ensure it arrives exactly when you want it to.