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Forgeworld fulfilled my greastest desire, a DKoK Grenadier army list. I've been trying to play that with various workarounds (or some other stormtrooper-esque) army for 3 editions, and FW made it come true, even though it's definitely got some drawbacks and stinkers

Also, the Armored Battlegroup is tons of fun, even though I almost never win with it. Easily my 2nd favorite list to run in 40k currently.

Well, they did give my SoB SM Battle Brothers, so that's something. I mean, they're not Black Templars, but those Red Hunters guys are pretty cool too.

 Lynata wrote:
I don't like some of their fluff (just doesn't synch too well with what I grew up with)

Oh? I've only ever asked about their SoB fluff, but were you unhappy with other parts of it?

Also, they can do it well too. As we've agreed before, the Repressor has some pretty nice fluff behind it.

i actually find the ig a bit 'meh'. I know they're insanely popular, and i wouldn't say they were bad per se, but the dkok look too much like steel legion, and the drop troopers look too elite to me.

I'm looking forward to the imperial army release though...fingers crossed it'll bring awesome new ig models, the rest of the 30k stuff has been top notch.

 Rippy wrote:
With the GW prices so heavily inflated in Australia, a DKoK army only costs a couple of extra hundred dollars from Cadians (if buying direct from GW). Comparing DKoK models to Cadians is a no brainier for me, especially if it only takes an extra pay check or two to buy it all.

Not sure what's it's like now but 2 years ago it was a few dollars cheaper to buy a Battlewagon with a supa Kannon + postage than it was to buy a battle wagon in store. Because of this price difference I actually see quite a few Australians using FW even if it is just because they want an alternative looking model.

Hell it's cheaper to make a DKoK Assault Brigade now than an Eldar army relying on multiple squads of Dire Avengers

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hell it's cheaper to make a DKoK Assault Brigade now than an Eldar army relying on multiple squads of Dire Avengers

that's an unfair comparison. Dkok require a high number of infantry squads, eldar don't *need* loads of dire avengers. Five infantry boxes would set you back £115 from games workshop, or £160 at forgeworld. When you factor in discounts, including discounted batalians, you can easily pick up infantry squads for half the price of the dkok.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hell it's cheaper to make a DKoK Assault Brigade now than an Eldar army relying on multiple squads of Dire Avengers

They're $11 per model ($55 for 5) in Australia at GW AU RRP. Highly amusing ; p DKK are $1.40 per model from our communist friends to the north, whom due to GW AU RRP see lots of custom from my brethren.

<3 Forgeworld models and rules, however imperfect they may be. DKK especially are actually good looking truescale (or close to) infantry models you can use with other games and not feel embarrassed about. Cadians and Catachans look horrible next to virtually any other range, it's ridiculous. So many good kits have come out of FW, the HH offerings are often great, the Iron Hands come to mind as being especially awesome.

Since the FW options for Nids are nigh useless or dumb looking (IMO) I refuse to buy them.

So no, there isn't a brighter side to FW for me.

@Jimsolo - No, didn't even know you started that thread to be honest. Everyone is welcome to their opinion on Forgeworld, some are more vocal then others. I will check out that thread now though, thanks for alluding to it.

@Thud - I'm attempting to avoid those types of claims and comparisons to sensitive issues. And I'd wager lots of people care, since there are numerous posters in each discussion started.

I had primarily made this thread for some of us less forceful Forgeworld players to say what it is about Forgeworld that makes us happy to play it and what good things we thought it brought to 'standard' games.

I have said before that I don't feel Tournaments are "Standard Games". They are orchestrated events with varying rules and guidelines outside of a standard book mission or pick-up games.

To be honest, as I have said before, I dislike competitive / tournament play because it usually brings out the worst in players. Competition is for some folks, I prefer the story and creative aspect of the game / hobby. Again this is where I find Forgeworld Books and models to excel, in the ability to tell a story.

I agree it would be nice to see some more Xenos love, in fact.. LOTS more xenos love, but IoM sells... lots.

I love the models and fluff. Their Horus Heresy stuff. And their tanks! Stygies VIII+Mars Alpha hull=Yes please.

i love the models. almost every single thing up on that site is O.O worthy lol. Especially in the Ork categories. i want a Gargantuan Squiggoth so bad, its so epic looking, but i dont play apoc so i'd never get to use it >.<

Im actually going to get some of the Tau suits to use in place of Commanders since i HATE the GW model for commanders, and i like my HQs to stand out. A different paintjob doesnt cut it lol.

Though, i wish i could tell what the models did before buying the book. Orks i know what they do, Tau i have no flippin clue outside the new and ridiculously overpowered XV107 lol.

Whomever said that the Achilles Land Raider is indestructible against IG has never tried using a pair of Vanquisher command tanks with co-axial stubbers.

 Ailaros wrote:
FW models would get more cred from me if they did them in plastic. They already charge enough to justify putting them out in plastic instead of resin. That said, I do agree that their design department is usually better. It's a hard sell to say that FW marine bikes look worse than the GW ones, or that DKoK look worse than cadians.

Not just no. HELL no. You can't do the same things in plastic that you do in resin, so plastic versions of DKoK/tanks/etc would be a huge step down in quality and lose all of the things that makes them worth buying in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Whomever said that the Achilles Land Raider is indestructible against IG has never tried using a pair of Vanquisher command tanks with co-axial stubbers.

Or anything really. The LR Achilles got its reputation for being indestructible in 5th edition, but under the 6th edition rules it's not that much more durable than a regular LR.

I just love the variety. Yeah as an IG player I might be getting the best deal as far as variety goes, but surely diversity in what your opponents are doing can be refreshing too. There's just so much more freedom to explore different playstyles and lists, not to mention opportunities in model-building.

the terrain alone should at least convert some people.

I own a city board and as much as it can bring limitations to certain games and army lists it liberates others and throwns down different ways to play - especially smaller level games.

i've started building up a zone mortalis set up now. what does GW have thats even close to that?

FW was always a favourite for me when i first started buying from them in 1999 - they have just got better and better since. The HH weekender was a hobby led (not retail led) weekend and has made it something that GW has slipped its grasp from.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Whomever said that the Achilles Land Raider is indestructible against IG has never tried using a pair of Vanquisher command tanks with co-axial stubbers.

yes but no one brings vanquishers, let alone two. I play guard and i have never glanced av14 to death, it's melta or nothing. Such a tank would be nigh indestructable vs guard, but that's life. Sometimes there are hard counters...it can't be as bad as foot guard vs blood angels in fifth.

xruslanx wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Whomever said that the Achilles Land Raider is indestructible against IG has never tried using a pair of Vanquisher command tanks with co-axial stubbers.

yes but no one brings vanquishers, let alone two. I play guard and i have never glanced av14 to death, it's melta or nothing. Such a tank would be nigh indestructable vs guard, but that's life. Sometimes there are hard counters...it can't be as bad as foot guard vs blood angels in fifth.

My standard 2000 point army is:
2x Command Vanquishers with co-axial stubbers, hull lascannons, artificer hulls, and beast hunter shells.
2x Command LRBT with artificer hull, infernus shells
4x vanilla LRBT
2x Thunderer siege tank

Plus ~300 pts change

xruslanx wrote:
yes but no one brings vanquishers, let alone two.

So maybe you should reconsider that choice when you know that there are units that are immune to melta. Or just spam more Vendettas/Manticores/etc.

Love Forge World, always have.

Love the variety it brings even if it is just for the cool factor. I see models and I think...Man I would have so much fun painting it and making it look badass. But after that I kinda want to play with it too.

While I agree some race are under-represented (Nids, Dark Eldar) and I hope this will eventually be fixed in a future books.

I love the look and feel of the Tauros. I can just picture my Catachan driving around a camo version complete with camo-net firing a grenade launcher.

Getting cover fire from a Vulture with huge chainguns raining shells in the jungle below.

BTW I still don't get what's the big deal with the Vulture people are going nuts over it like it's a relentless engine of destruction. It will go down like every other flyer.

I love my Eldar Hornets (were good at first but are now very good since last update) and Shadow Specters (Love the models and fluff and given my Craftworld is Mymeara it fits.).

Even have a phoenix bomber which is a beast but...costs something like 220 for AV10 all around and 3 HP.

In our local Meta FW is accepted and nobody blinks. We see an FW model and ask what does it do? Allright cool. Let's play and have fun. We have a very nice gaming club and the attitude of the players counts for alot.

Troike wrote:Oh? I've only ever asked about their SoB fluff, but were you unhappy with other parts of it?

Eh, there's just tons of stuff in the Vraks books doesn't quite add up, from my perspective. Both in terms of who gets sent to do the fighting as well as how they do it. Lasers ricocheting off of power armour? Nope. Not in my 40k. Same with the usual poster boys taking all the glory - honestly, you've got an Apostate Cardinal stirring up trouble, but who is getting sent to deal with him? Not the Ordo Hereticus, whose job it is to watch the Ecclesiarchy. Not the Sisters, who have some of their own rotting in said Cardinal's dungeons. Nope. Malleus and the shiny Grey Knights, as if they wouldn't have enough coverage elsewhere (including other FW books). Meanwhile, the Sororitas are relegated to the role of Damsel in Distress.

Call it faction jealousy, but this sort of stuff is a pet peeve of mine. Would've been better to not mention them at all instead of inserting them only to highlight their apparent helplessness.

It's a shame, for all in all the Vraks books are really well written. I enjoyed reading about the campaign.

Oh, did I mention I still don't like the Avenger? Neither its looks, nor that its fluff insinuates the SoB depend on the Navy for air support. Something else from FW I'll just ignore in favour of the original core studio fluff.

Troike wrote:Also, they can do it well too. As we've agreed before, the Repressor has some pretty nice fluff behind it.

That much is true, hence the "some".
Unfortunately it seems to remain an exception from the rule, at least as far as SoB are concerned.

That's not to say I do not enjoy some of FW's non-SoB fluff, though!

 Lynata wrote:
Oh, did I mention I still don't like the Avenger? Neither its looks, nor that its fluff insinuates the SoB depend on the Navy for air support.

So what exactly do you think SoB use for air support? Have they ever been given fluff that includes their own dedicated air support, while even marines have to ask the navy for help sometimes? And no, "they don't have air support" isn't an option if they want to participate in 40k battles outside of special SoB-only scenario missions.

 Lynata wrote:

Troike wrote:Oh? I've only ever asked about their SoB fluff, but were you unhappy with other parts of it?

Eh, there's just tons of stuff in the Vraks books doesn't quite add up, from my perspective. Both in terms of who gets sent to do the fighting as well as how they do it. Lasers ricocheting off of power armour? Nope. Not in my 40k. Same with the usual poster boys taking all the glory - honestly, you've got an Apostate Cardinal stirring up trouble, but who is getting sent to deal with him? Not the Ordo Hereticus, whose job it is to watch the Ecclesiarchy. Not the Sisters, who have some of their own rotting in said Cardinal's dungeons. Nope. Malleus and the shiny Grey Knights, as if they wouldn't have enough coverage elsewhere (including other FW books). Meanwhile, the Sororitas are relegated to the role of Damsel in Distress.

Call it faction jealousy, but this sort of stuff is a pet peeve of mine. Would've been better to not mention them at all instead of inserting them only to highlight their apparent helplessness.

To be fair, at least they do a decent job of explaining why the Ordo Malleus get's involved and why the Ordo Hereticus gets sidelined in the story. While understandably frustrating for someone who likes the SoB, I didn't find their portrayal particularly awful, just unfortunate for those in question, ending up as sad pawns in a game between Inquisitorial Ordos, a particularly grimdark end for a grimdark story. Not so much "Damsels in Distress", awaiting heroic rescue, but more "they're just f****d, there is no good end here". It's still better than the Ward treatment and the ridiculous Bloodtide.

I really like Forgeworld a lot.

They have expanded all kinds of units, for all of my armies, so I have no reason to complain. I really love the new Necron stuff, and the updated Chaos stuff in the new IA Apoc book. I'm lucky I guess that no one has a problem playing Forgeworld. I just make sure to bring a copy of the book, in case there are any questions.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Whomever said that the Achilles Land Raider is indestructible against IG has never tried using a pair of Vanquisher command tanks with co-axial stubbers.

yes but no one brings vanquishers, let alone two. I play guard and i have never glanced av14 to death, it's melta or nothing. Such a tank would be nigh indestructable vs guard, but that's life. Sometimes there are hard counters...it can't be as bad as foot guard vs blood angels in fifth.

My standard 2000 point army is:
2x Command Vanquishers with co-axial stubbers, hull lascannons, artificer hulls, and beast hunter shells.
2x Command LRBT with artificer hull, infernus shells
4x vanilla LRBT
2x Thunderer siege tank

Plus ~300 pts change

so, forgeworld isn't op because you can use other forgeworld to counter it?

The models are very well built. The fluff is amazing. There are far more rules per page than a GW Supplement. Sure there are some broken units that feth up the rules, but they aren't as readily available for spam...so that makes it better than Scythes, Riptides, Helldrakes or Vendettas already.

The only thing I'm not a fan of is the Armored Battlegroup. I understand the want to take this for the 'idea and fluff' of bringing tanks to a battle...but without prior consent from a player so they can somewhat tailor a list...this game is TERRIBLY boring. I'm VERY pro-FW, but the two players in my area prefer ABG armies for regular games of 40k don't get many games. This is because Objective games become a hide-and-seek fest since the tanks can't Deny Objectives, and half of a regular army...or more...can't touch the tanks without assaulting. Just annoying games to play without prior warning.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm not too keen on FW models. The same holds for our gaming group. In our bimonthly APO battles some of us field the GW released plastic kits for Baneblade pattern tanks and other super heavies and we are happy with them

That doesn't do much for the Eldar/Tau/Dark Eldar crowd.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
The models are very well built. The fluff is amazing. There are far more rules per page than a GW Supplement. Sure there are some broken units that feth up the rules, but they aren't as readily available for spam...so that makes it better than Scythes, Riptides, Helldrakes or Vendettas already.

The only thing I'm not a fan of is the Armored Battlegroup. I understand the want to take this for the 'idea and fluff' of bringing tanks to a battle...but without prior consent from a player so they can somewhat tailor a list...this game is TERRIBLY boring. I'm VERY pro-FW, but the two players in my area prefer ABG armies for regular games of 40k don't get many games. This is because Objective games become a hide-and-seek fest since the tanks can't Deny Objectives, and half of a regular army...or more...can't touch the tanks without assaulting. Just annoying games to play without prior warning.

While I can sort of understand this, in my experience playing against ABG's is usually an easy win, precisely because the ABG usually has few or no scoring units, and often little ability to maneuver to get better firing positions on troops behind cover sitting on an objective

There is only one complaint I have about FW and that is some of the detail on the larger models. I bought one of the slaaneshi daemon lords because the model is pretty impressive and will be a nice centerpiece on the Slaanesh/Tzeentch daemon army shelf (I intend to add one of the nurgle daemon lords for my other daemon army at some point). The one thing thatis crazy is that ALL of the spiky details on the daemon lord are separate pieces. Drove me nuts trying to keep track of and manage all of the spikes on the Khorne daemon prince model, but there have to be 3 times as many on the slaaneshi lord. Going to go bloody blind working on this one and this is the primary reason that I've built all the other kits I got in the order with this one, but the lord is still waiting to be cleaned up and built...doh!

Yeah first world problems in a big way: My super detailed uber cool model is too super detailed.

Skriker

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
In our local Meta FW is accepted and nobody blinks. We see an FW model and ask what does it do? Allright cool. Let's play and have fun. We have a very nice gaming club and the attitude of the players counts for alot.

It would be awesome if more people were like that. Still, I don't complain myself for now, since I have no problems at all using a FW Sonic Dreadnought whilst playing with my closest gaming friends. I've explained what kind of weaponry it has and established the points cost with them, and we're all happy.

I find a 10-tank ABG with extra units for flavor a tactical challenge to win with, which always yields moments of excitement during the third or fourth turn climax.

As for Forgeworld countering Forgeworld, you mean regular 40k units countering other regular 40k units. I don't see what's wrong with that. It would suck if you needed an Apoc unit to counter it, yes.

 Peregrine wrote:
So what exactly do you think SoB use for air support? Have they ever been given fluff that includes their own dedicated air support, while even marines have to ask the navy for help sometimes?

It was mentioned that they have their own ships back in their 2e codex, and this hasn't been retconned, to my knowledge. And, of course, there's the simple fact that SoB fluff hasn't really gone anywhere for a while, being pretty much only slightly to moderately expanded or recycled. So the absence of fluff specifically dealing with SoB air support certainly doesn't mean that it can't exist.

 Peregrine wrote:
And no, "they don't have air support" isn't an option if they want to participate in 40k battles outside of special SoB-only scenario missions.

We can deal with flyers pretty well without using FW, actually. Exorcist spam or a quad gun manned by Dominions (who can mae it ignore cover) generally put flyers down just fine.

Though a flyer would certainly be nice, but suggesting that we need it to participate in 40K battles at all is wrong.