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Hey All,

We've seen so many of these threads "Is Forgeworld legal? What is the stance of GW on Forgeworld? Will Forgeworld be allowed in tournaments?"... as a suggestion from another thread, I decided to open a thread where we can list the POSITIVES of bringing Forgeworld into "Standard 40K". So I'm posing it to the Dakka community, what do your Forgeworld units bring to the game that isn't given by the standard game? What are the positives of 40K being integrated into the game?

I'll start:

The Beautiful Models - I don't think anyone would debate that Forgeworld makes some very nice models. They have high detail and are quite wonderful to behold on the table top.

Cool new Units - Tired of the same old boring dreadnought? Why not bring a Contemptor? Want to bring a 'castle' feel to your army? Bring tarantula turrets. Want some cool additions to your battlewagon? Bring da Claw!! Want a cool walker for your 40K Warriors of Chaos Army? Bring along a Decimator! Tired of the same old Cadians and Catachans... why not some Elysians and Death Korps!! There are lots of cool options for lots of existing armies. There is always some additional flavor to be dropped into existing books.

New Fluff - The books are fantastically detailed and most often have lots of cool stories. The missions are primarily used for Apocalypse, but there are some great rules to be found within each book, and they're helpful with terrain setup and ideas for new army types.

Again, there are always downsides, and those have been brought up a lot in the other discussions, maybe it'd be nice to shed some positive light on the subject.

New Army Lists - Armored Battlegroup is my real hearthrob army, and Elysians offer Air-Cav without the silliness of the Guard codex. Death Korps gives a grittier, World War I style infantry feel than the semi-modernish Guard codex does.

I wouldn't mind forge world if it was easier to get. Its to bad they don't have a US branch or at least carry it in stores. The shipping is ridiculous.

You could use those models you spend so much money on more often.

If you can get games, of course.

Strangely: More Balance with a wider range of options of flyers and AA it really breaks the game up and balances flyers and FMCs out more.

I'd say the alternate army lists help shake up what we usually see being used being played too which is never a bad thing.

 wowsmash wrote:
I wouldn't mind forge world if it was easier to get. Its to bad they don't have a US branch or at least carry it in stores. The shipping is ridiculous.

Find some friends at your FLGS. Save up your orders and cash until you have enough to hit the "no shipping" level of 250gbp. No shipping cost AND they ship out the pricier orders faster. I always just save up my pennies now until I can hit that mark and then order. Much better than buying 250gbp in mins in smaller batches and paying their crazy shipping prices each time. Or you can order stuff right now while they have a free standard shipping sale going on.

Edit add: For the OP:
The models are gorgeous and given that not many people use them, they are often unique in a local meta. The rules are more balanced than people give them credit for as well. The books are highly detailed, full of backstory and fluff and new unit rules. I also really like the chaos lists from the 3 Vraks campaign books (IA 5-7) as they combine many different types of chaos forces into one. I only own a single FW superheavy a malcador defender, and it is such a ghetto super heavy. It has a devastator cannon hull mounted in the front, 2 lascannon and a bunch of heavy bolters in a superstructure in place of a turret. Hardly the kind of thing to make titans or other superheavies feel any fear.

Skriker

I usually bring a CSM Contemptor and I love him, I don't care if he does very little, he is still a great addition to my force

Although I think he is starting to get the title of Bug killer at my FLGS simply because on his last wound, he punched a Trygon in the chest and ripped its innards out , next stop a Hive Tyrant me thinks

Also I think it would be a good thing if FW was included more as it adds so much more to the game imo, I used to get really bored of the game until I found IA, now its much more enjoyable imo, none of the units straight out break the game like some do in normal codex's but they do add a powerful boost to you army, and in some cases for old codex's its a really good addition to have imo

Well, I'm not too keen on FW models. The same holds for our gaming group. In our bimonthly APO battles some of us field the GW released plastic kits for Baneblade pattern tanks and other super heavies and we are happy with them

I've noticed these threads kicking off lately, with Rosa Parks allusions and all, and I think it's all a bit ridiculous.

Who cares? What's the big deal? It's all toy soldiers anyway.

Many FW models are beautiful, and add much more variety to the standard GW armies. For instance, CSM get the Chaos Spartan Assault Tank, that is a Land Raider+ that's actually somewhat viable, and the Chaos Storm Eagle, a durable, flying assault transport. There are, of course, many more.

I personally have an EC Sonic Dreadnought with a Blastmaster and Doom Siren. It looks awesome beside my Noise Marines and so far has proven a decent unit in my recent games.

Thud wrote:
I've noticed these threads kicking off lately, with Rosa Parks allusions and all, and I think it's all a bit ridiculous.

Who cares? What's the big deal? It's all toy soldiers anyway.

You get some who are trying to force the hobby into a little box of what they think it should be (which often has a stipulation of "no Forgeworld") and make accusations of things being "forced" on them while they force their opinion of the game (which really isn't as narrow as they define as the article in my sig talks about) on everyone else.

Oddly a lot of these people also play competitively so there is an argument to be made there that they feel threatened by having their meta shaken even though a lot of what we're talking about doesn't have anything to do with tournaments.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Thud wrote:
I've noticed these threads kicking off lately, with Rosa Parks allusions and all, and I think it's all a bit ridiculous.

Who cares? What's the big deal? It's all toy soldiers anyway.

You get some who are trying to force the hobby into a little box of what they think it should be (which often has a stipulation of "no Forgeworld") and make accusations of things being "forced" on them while they force their opinion of the game (which really isn't as narrow as they define as the article in my sig talks about) on everyone else.

Oddly a lot of these people also play competitively so there is an argument to be made there that they feel threatened by having their meta shaken even though a lot of what we're talking about doesn't have anything to do with tournaments.

Considering the sort of "arguments" coming from the pro-FW camp on these forums, you shouldn't really point your fingers too much on the anti-FW camp. Some of those pro-FW guys in that thread in the Tournaments forum don't really seem like the sort of guys I'd like to play against.

I can't speak for everyone but I feel tournaments are basically already their own game that's pretty well removed from the normal game so trying to argue FW there is really a debate on it's merits/detriments with whomever wants to run the thing.

Outside of that I just don't like seeing people shove the entirety of what the game into a tiny little box and declaring everything outside that "not 40k". This game is too big, has too much freedom and too many things for us to do to define it that narrowly. It's more than just X or Y, it's a wide spectrum that we have people who are trying to force everyone to ignore to suit their individual tastes over everyone else's.

I stand by the statement I've made before: play what you and your opponent will agree is fun for both of you, damn everything else. It's all legal as long as it's done to be an enjoyable experience for everyone, if it's not enjoyable than you, or your opponent or, most likely, both, have done something wrong and failed to set up an experience you can both be happy with, FW or not.

it FW wasnt such an IOM love fest, it would be much more accepted.

that, despite FW and GW making statements that FW 40k approved stuff is 100% legal, it is so widely REJECTED in tournament play, should speak volumes to how the community perceives FW "balance"

if every single army got their equivalent of undercosted units like artillery carriages and so on, it would be fine.

its such a shame that while most of FW's rules are just fine, that enough are broken, and unfortunately more in the IOM's favor then anyone else.

once the rules are as nice looking as the models, and the FW love is spread around a bit more, then I think it will become more and more accepted in competitive/tournament play.

as for casual, have at er! all for fun anyways right?

With the GW prices so heavily inflated in Australia, a DKoK army only costs a couple of extra hundred dollars from Cadians (if buying direct from GW). Comparing DKoK models to Cadians is a no brainier for me, especially if it only takes an extra pay check or two to buy it all.

 easysauce wrote:
it FW wasnt such an IOM love fest, it would be much more accepted.

that, despite FW and GW making statements that FW 40k approved stuff is 100% legal, it is so widely REJECTED in tournament play, should speak volumes to how the community perceives FW "balance"

if every single army got their equivalent of undercosted units like artillery carriages and so on, it would be fine.

its such a shame that while most of FW's rules are just fine, that enough are broken, and unfortunately more in the IOM's favor then anyone else.

once the rules are as nice looking as the models, and the FW love is spread around a bit more, then I think it will become more and more accepted in competitive/tournament play.

as for casual, have at er! all for fun anyways right?

I'm sorry but I am tired of the unbalanced claims. When we have screamstar, seer bikers, riptides, etc and I look in a FW book and realize quite a bit of it is sub par I laugh at such a notion. Also its not so dramatically imperial leaning. Usually its that LR with one or two tweaks and really only due to the fact that making IA for Imperium v. Etc is very easy to do. (Although I would love to see some more DE, ad mech, ecclesiary, inquisition, Tyranid, and chaos stuff. The more the better )

FW models would get more cred from me if they did them in plastic. They already charge enough to justify putting them out in plastic instead of resin. That said, I do agree that their design department is usually better. It's a hard sell to say that FW marine bikes look worse than the GW ones, or that DKoK look worse than cadians.

As for new units - meh. People are always going to pool into taking THE list and being as uncreative as possible in their desire for the easiest win they can get. FW doesn't really add anything here, it just changes the percentage of models that come from FW in your average netlist.

The one thing I would say in favor of it along these lines though, is that fully incorporating FW into 40k would help people take the game less seriously. Unencumbered by the needs of game balance (what little is manageable already), and the codex cycle, FW can, and does, put out a huge amount of content. In a deluge of what amounts to DLC for a tabletop game, you're no longer going to be able to preserve the faintest shred of the game being a strategy game in the face of "these are the bonkers new toys you get NOW!" coming out. People conspire that GW only makes models to drive sales and nothing else (like, say, making a good game), while in the case of FW, this is a naked fact.

But, that's a fine line. If the game devolves into "who wins is who buys this month's fancy new thing", then we're going to see a game where you buy victory. That's a boon because it REALLY destroys any credibility of 40k being a strategy game, but it's a bad thing for me at least because it fundamentally undoes why I got into 40k from MTG in the first place. I guess, on the plus side, you'd know really quickly who you shouldn't play games against because they'd show up with the new stuff from forgeworld, but you can already do that as-is.

I haven't actually read any of the FW fluff (well, almost none), so can't really comment. GW has been hurting in the fluff department of late, and if the black library also isn't doing the job, then it's nice to think that there's a third attempt being made somewhere.

I love the models. I also love some of the goofier rules... reminds me of my RT/1st edition days when we'd have to invent rules (usually based on the fluff) to make up for the huge gaps in the official rule book.

Case-in-point... grot tanks/megatanks. The idea that you can get an invul because the parts of the vehicle that are being blown off are completly superfluous to it's operation... very funny. Very fluffy too. Just my style.

I agree with most of the positives above;
Models
Forgeworld models are incredibly detailed. So detailed that it often makes the painter want to up their game to match. My favorite models are my forgeworld ones.
Variety in Units
They may give more units to IoM but the units they give to eldar, CSM, and CD (the xenos armies I have forgeworld for) are really good. Wraithseers, warp hunter, phoenix, nightwing, hornet, decimator, contemptor mortis, and spined chaos beasts are all fantastic models that also have good rules.
Variety in Army Lists
Forgeworld actually makes it possible to field a variety of army lists. With Codex: IG I can field vendettas and tanks...an all foot list is a pipe dream and if I try to field valks then I loose my ability to take enough vendettas to not auto loose to necrons. With FW added I can field all foot lists with no problem using artillery and I can field a valkyrie drop list using elysians. I can field an CWE air force list that doesn't blow up by turn 3.

In my experience forgeworld unlocks types of armies you would never be able to run under the codex with any chance at winning and makes these armies reasonably capable. This cuts down on the number of "That List" as people have alternatives if they want to win. An example is do you bring a 3 vendettas or 6 sabre platforms and a vulture? With the sabre's you no longer have to bring the vendettas but then you may not have forward scoring and you could run into a DE player (who makes mockery of artillery T7).

Thud wrote:Considering the sort of "arguments" coming from the pro-FW camp on these forums, you shouldn't really point your fingers too much on the anti-FW camp. Some of those pro-FW guys in that thread in the Tournaments forum don't really seem like the sort of guys I'd like to play against.

I find it funny that you barge into a thread named, "Forgeworld - Come see the brighter side..." to say this. Perhaps the anti-FW person within you has become a bit more rabid than you would want?

easysauce wrote:it FW wasnt such an IOM love fest, it would be much more accepted.

that, despite FW and GW making statements that FW 40k approved stuff is 100% legal, it is so widely REJECTED in tournament play, should speak volumes to how the community perceives FW "balance"

if every single army got their equivalent of undercosted units like artillery carriages and so on, it would be fine.

its such a shame that while most of FW's rules are just fine, that enough are broken, and unfortunately more in the IOM's favor then anyone else.

once the rules are as nice looking as the models, and the FW love is spread around a bit more, then I think it will become more and more accepted in competitive/tournament play.

as for casual, have at er! all for fun anyways right?

I do agree that FW needs to show more love to DE specifically. I am okay with their love level toward CD, CSM, and CWE where the number of units are less but the units they get fix major weaknesses in the armies and add entirely new play styles. The DE units look really good on paper but I have not tried any (I have almost every HQ for that army but only 10 warriors and a venom...thank goodness for allies).

If I could get myself to make the purchase, I would really think that a Hornet would be really cool for my Eldar, which are themed as "Corsairs" by being built as a Saim-Hann force. I'd like to take something "lighter" than a Falcon or Fire Prism.

A Wraithseer would be cool, but is stupidly easy to convert from a Wraithlord model with sword and the D-cannon from a support battery.

Forge World is the epitome of two friends saying "wouldn't it be cool to field "X" in a 40K game?"

I'd love to buy a Spartan Tank or the Fire Raptor... horribly expensive to me, though

@AegisGrimm
And they go out find a very talented sculptor, knock him over the head, and chain him to a bench somewhere...

 ansacs wrote:

Thud wrote:Considering the sort of "arguments" coming from the pro-FW camp on these forums, you shouldn't really point your fingers too much on the anti-FW camp. Some of those pro-FW guys in that thread in the Tournaments forum don't really seem like the sort of guys I'd like to play against.

I find it funny that you barge into a thread named, "Forgeworld - Come see the brighter side..." to say this. Perhaps the anti-FW person within you has become a bit more rabid than you would want?

Ehh... what?

I came into this thread to say this:

I've noticed these threads kicking off lately, with Rosa Parks allusions and all, and I think it's all a bit ridiculous.

Who cares? What's the big deal? It's all toy soldiers anyway.

Which, I think you'll find, is what I did.

And then ClockworkZion replied to my post, criticizing some of the Anti-FW crowd, and I pointed out that some of the pro-FW guys are much worse.

None of that has any influence on my position on whether or not FW should be allowed in games. I am still in favour of FW, even though massive douches are on my side of the argument.

There is one type of unit that I may want to use . Saber defense platforms . But to use them I would have to spam them and the cost of the models is mind blowing ,on top of it being online ordered only. And then when I compere it to what other armies can get , like melta immune LR , which are indestructible vs IG or the new Riptide , my interest in the platforms lessens a lot.
I would rather want GW make hvy weapon teams actualy viable to take out of an IG dex.

But all of that is a secondery thing .FW is not allowed to be used in tournaments , so people don't buy it and if they don't have FW units , they wont play against people using FW rules, I don't think I have seen more then 5 actual non recast FW models in 2 years of playing . One was an EC dread , one tank that looked like a WWII elefant for IG and the rest was loyalist marine stuff.

Isn't think thread supposed to be about what Forgeworld units we think would be cool to field, and the reasoning as to why?

I don't like some of their fluff (just doesn't synch too well with what I grew up with), but what I do like is the expanded model range as well as certain units that are just "oldschool" but were abandoned by the GW core studio. Case in point, the Thudd Gun.
I learned to love it in Final Liberation for the sound alone.
Also, I really dig the Tauros jeeps. I'll be sure to incorporate those into my own little interpretation of the 41st millennium.

If only they'd expand their range further ... unfortunately, most of their material seems focused on IG and Space Marines. Then again, business is business, I guess.

I forgot the best part. The books themselves are absolute works of art. They even feel nice in your hands.

@Thud
Fair enough. I prefer "excessively motivated". BTW and as I have said before a FW discussion without references to nazi and racism and some name calling is not a real FW debate.

@Makumba
If you want to get some FW models then I highly recommend getting a group together. You will find that 1 sabre platform will help your army just as much as a landraider achilles. The LR is so many points that it starts removing major portions of their army. The only non experimental FW units that are noticeably underpriced are sabres and heavy artillery. These units only become so when you can spam them with lord commissars to mitigate their leadership problems. I have found the rest are only game changing when you get surprised by them.

@Lynata
Thudd guns are all fun and games until you resolve a battery of 12 of them...then it is work. Still looks cool though.

1: More variety. Even full armies!
2: Lots of new units to play with and customize your army.
3: Beautiful models. Average quality higher than the regular 40k.
4: Great background. Average quality higher than the regular 40k.
5: Units that some armies really really need (the Avenger for SoB/AS comes to mind).
6: Stupidly sexy high quality stuff that I am no longer finding in GW´s products (yes I know FW is GW too, you know what I mean). For example, Betrayal and Massacre are incredibly good (and expensive).
7: "Oldschool" stuff as pointed out by Lynata.
8: Help some players to realize that there is fun out of the basic Codex.
And more.

 wowsmash wrote:
I wouldn't mind forge world if it was easier to get. Its to bad they don't have a US branch or at least carry it in stores. The shipping is ridiculous.

ifthey were to be willing to make a few copies of the moulds, we have a huge workforce looking for something to do and are out of jobs. My hometown has an empty plant with the railroad going straight into it and a town full of workers. Opening a US branch would be easy peasy and not only allow them to expand but also to multiply their profit margin.

Much easier to win competitive events. Since the rules are optimized, there's very few bad choices. And as I've said many, many times before, experience is the most powerful factor that wins games. The most powerful unit available to you is the one your opponent doesn't know how to fight against, and can't anticipate. That just multiplies the effectiveness of Forgeworld units exponentially. If the TO for an event you have coming up allows them, Forgeworld units can add a huge punch to your lists!

Hope you don't think that my Objective Opinion thread was an attack on you or the stuff you like, Matt. I may not think Forgeworld units are all totally balanced, but I certainly don't hate them.