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Ok, so here's the setting. One second, Argos (space marine tactical sergeant) is polishing his ... I dunno, SWORD, next, he's in a giant pitch-black void with a (male-volent I think) force seeming to surround him.
"Astartes. You are in my domain." the voice was deep and strong, but clattered and layered, and reminded Argos of bad VOX transmission. It seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere all at once. Impossible.
"where am I? Who are you? show yourself xenos!" Argos shouted.
" who am I? mha ha ha, show myself? I am showing myself, I am all around you, this is my domain." the presence repeated with a thundering laugh.
"Spare me your trickery! Xenos scum!"
"mha ha ha. I am not the god of trickery, you confuse me with my brother. You are needed else where, astartes, and as such, I will use my powers to allow this."
"what. Are. You?" Argos Asked forcefully.
The blackness around him churned, and blood red replaced the black.
" DO NOT SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT IN MY HOME!"
pain spiked through Argos As though bone thin fingers were gripping his spine, ready to rip it from his body.
" YOU ARE NOTHING TO ME, MORTAL. NOTHING!"
"Mortal? You over-estimate yourself xeno, only the emperor is truly immortal." Argos' single eye was scanning spectrums, but it was as thoe he was in a void, there was no warmth, save that produced by the environmental-controls of his armour.
"ah yes. So loyal." an invisible, bone-thin hand closed around Argos' throat.
"tell me, astartes, do you know your emperor is dead?"
" LIES! XENOS FILTH LIES!" Argos tried to head butt whatever held his neck, but to no avail."
Mha ha ha ha.
" your emperor, my dear astartes, is so close to death I can TASTE him."
"you lie foul beast! The emperor CAN NOT DIE."
"fine, fine." the xenon scum had the nerve to not only question the emperor, but to DISMISS him as UNIMPORTANT! "now, the reason you are here. I wish for you to save a world."
"I'l not set foot on your world, asides to burn it to the ground!"
" SILENCE! YOUR DOGMA BORES ME! NOW SHUT UP, OR I SHALL RIP OFF YOUR JAW." to emphasise the point, the skeletal hands moved to be holding his jaw, their thumbs drawing blood from his neck.
Argos spoke with difficulty "fine xenos. What do you want, you'll never get information."
" ARE YOU ALL THIS STUPID? OR AM I SIMPLY UNLUCKY! I WANT YOU TO RESCUE A WORLD, HAVE I NOT ALREADY SAID THIS? and you will stop calling me xeno, it leaves an annoying feeling in one's mouth."
"then show me your form."
" IMBESCILE! ALL AROUND YOU, THIS DARKNESS IS MY FORM! I AM A GOD! I AM A GOD AND WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH!"
CHoking down a comment, Argus did not reply.
" hmmm... Perhaps there is hope. My brother, the bastard khorne, plans on capturing one of your kind's planets. And I think it will be entert- I mean, beneficial, for us both if you stop it."
" and how do you think I will do that?"
The "god" pondered " the governour, he is a Daemon host, with in three nights, he will metamorphise into a warp gate, large enough for my brother to overwhelm the planet, and gain a foot hold in your "imperium". You will kill this Daemon host."
" and if I fail?" argos felt the hands around his neck loosen.
" then it will cost a dozen worlds before your simpleton "imperial guard" retaliate."
Argos would not allow this to happen. He would confirm the daemons claims, and then kill the Daemon host.
Clearing his throat, he wiped the blood from his neck.
" very well. But you did not tell me who you are."
Chuckling. Argus heard a snap, and then everything went White, nearly burning his gene-hansed retinas after the all consuming darkness. A ghostly whisper followed.
" I am malice."
This is the same weakness I showed in your last writing. All we have here are two talking heads. It is horribly spelled (seriously, get a spell checker, if you as a writer don't care about it, why should I as a reader care?). And the logic is just not there, a Space Marine Sergeant just says "oh ok" after being yelled at by a Daemon?
Sound interesting! I have one or two ideas if you're interested.
Malice does actually have daemons (or at least daemon princes). If you want Argus to become more corrupt by Malice's influences, he could become a daemon prince by the end.
Also, Malice does actually have his own chaos space marine chapter, the Sons of Malice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 18:28:36
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Im always open to ideas, unless they involve DE, feth DE...
About the Daemon prince thing, argus Is actuely the first captain of my space marine chapter, so, I don't tink he would get Daemon princed.
Yeah I know about the sons of malice, I figure there off partying in the EOT so malice decided the half blind guy was cool.
The long and short of it is that the conversation boils down to this:
Daemon: Do what I want.
Marine: No.
Daemon: Come onnnn
Marine: Okay.
Do you really think a Marine, a Marine Sergeant, who has been built and trained to resist the urges of daemonic forces and any kind of corruption will simply just agree to a daemon's plans because the daemon tells him "oh it'll be good I totally promise"? Really?
curran12 wrote: The long and short of it is that the conversation boils down to this:
Daemon: Do what I want.
Marine: No.
Daemon: Come onnnn
Marine: Okay.
Do you really think a Marine, a Marine Sergeant, who has been built and trained to resist the urges of daemonic forces and any kind of corruption will simply just agree to a daemon's plans because the daemon tells him "oh it'll be good I totally promise"? Really?
Good point.
Hmm... any ideas on how it might work better?
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Argus felt the ground beneath him, the cool caress of solid land on his cheek. It was minutes before his retinas healed from their ordeal. He vomited. And vomited again. He stood, his armoured bulk rising slowly and his usual ease of movement slowed (why is slowed censored) and fell on his face on the reddish dirt expanse that extended in all directions. His brain felt as tough he had swallowed a barrel of space wolf mead. But this did not matter: the stupid Daemon had believed him! Now, he had to find this planet's gouvener ( HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT DAMNED WORD), tell him of this daemonic entity that wished of his demise, and organise to be returned to the forsaken knights. Simple. The daemons treacherous words still clung like barnacles to the back of his mind, and used them as a tool of rage to assist in his clearing his head.
Before being retconned, my favorite Chaos God in the WHFB universe was Necoho, the Chaos God of Agnosticism and Atheism, as it fits the hypocrisy, self-contradiction, and ambiguity that are such prominent themes concerning the nature of Chaos.
Due to the fact that the Chaos in warhammer is so deeply based on Michael Moorcock's works (from the nature of Chaos and the eight-pointed star), the nature of Chaos in Warhammer is primary inconceivable, and secondarily evil. All Gods of Chaos do things simply because it pleases them, and reward individuals in the way a owner to his/her slaves would.
This would put more emphasis on the mortals' struggles against Chaos, as it's an endless struggle, a hopeless struggle, with each victory being pyrrhic and ultimately meanless as the gods of chaos only ever gains from the agony and fear their minions burnt into the hearts of their foes.
Can there be good chaos gods? By nature of the gods can never be good, as they are driven by their selfishness; and if Daemons are extension of their patrons, then it adheres to reasons that the Daemons are also desire driven. And therefore there can never be "good" daemons, since being "good" one must follow sympathetic principles above desires.
the shrouded lord wrote: Now, he had to find this planet's gouvener ( HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT DAMNED WORD)...
Governor.
curran12 wrote:
Quite honestly...pretty terrible.
This is the same weakness I showed in your last writing. All we have here are two talking heads. It is horribly spelled (seriously, get a spell checker, if you as a writer don't care about it, why should I as a reader care?). And the logic is just not there, a Space Marine Sergeant just says "oh ok" after being yelled at by a Daemon?
Agreed here. There needs to be something more happening in this conversation. Or, at the absolute least, it needs to be condensed considerably.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 19:14:40
Go forth and amplify, here come the NOISE MARINES!
Sons of Cacophony: Construction Finished, Forever Unpainted
Argus felt the ground beneath him, the cool caress of solid land on his cheek. It was minutes before his retinas healed from their ordeal. He vomited. And vomited again. He stood, his armoured bulk rising slowly and his usual ease of movement slowed (why is slowed censored) and fell on his face on the reddish dirt expanse that extended in all directions. His brain felt as tough he had swallowed a barrel of space wolf mead. But this did not matter: the stupid Daemon had believed him! Now, he had to find this planet's gouvener ( HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT DAMNED WORD), tell him of this daemonic entity that wished of his demise, and organise to be returned to the forsaken knights. Simple. The daemons treacherous words still clung like barnacles to the back of his mind, and used them as a tool of rage to assist in his clearing his head.
Governor.
I use the Ginger spell checker: http://www.gingersoftware.com/spellcheck It is far better than any other tool I used before. It still makes a lot of mistakes, so you need to read and reread everything. And it is free.
As curran12 says, there is something odd in the way your characters behave. The Daemon/god should be tempting, not yelling. Even Malal, hatred and self-destruction incarnated, would know that trying to convince someone by being rude is bound to failure. And the Marine, a zealot educated since birth to hate everything, which main flaw is pride, should be the one yelling. They do not try to outsmart the enemy with witty words and false promises. That is the way Daemons work, not Marines.
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice (I prefer Malal) is the personification of Chaos tendency to self-destruction. It hates other Chaos Gods, and it hates Chaos, and it hates itself. Is suicide, existential anguish, self-mutilation. Imagine a boy in a school, nobody talks to him.... he wants to die, he wants to kill everyone and then kill himself. Malal is the emotion in him, the cancer devouring his soul.
Malal does not do things "for fun". He does stuff out of hatred and the need to destroy everything.
The servants of Malal are "those who hate what they serve". Chaos gods do not go behind people to tempt them, it is the other way around. A Marine that starts getting too much fun while killing will eventually get in contact with Khorne. This Marine, to be contacted by Malal, must have switched sides already in his soul, at least to a certain degree: he hates what he serves. As a Marine, this means he hates the Emperor and the Imperium, and sees them as something impure that should be destroyed. Or perhaps his soul is at the border of the Abyss and his decisions will save or damn his soul. But he cannot be "pure": Chaos cannot get near "pure" people.
By the way, I am saying "Malal", but what I mean is "a Malal Daemon". Malal is a god that predates the creation of time itself, an entity from another dimension made out of raw emotion... It sounds strange that a god will contact a mere mortal, no matter the reason. Aaron Dembski-Bowden did it in Soul Hunter, but you are not ADB. So I will recommend to get a Greater Daemon of Malal doing the job. Sounds better
This is how they look like when in battle (your depiction as pure darkness is better for a first contact):
Spoiler:
Good luck! It is always good to see other players trying to create new stuff.
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
Argus felt the ground beneath him, the cool caress of solid land on his cheek. It was minutes before his retinas healed from their ordeal. He vomited. And vomited again. He stood, his armoured bulk rising slowly and his usual ease of movement slowed (why is slowed censored) and fell on his face on the reddish dirt expanse that extended in all directions. His brain felt as tough he had swallowed a barrel of space wolf mead. But this did not matter: the stupid Daemon had believed him! Now, he had to find this planet's gouvener ( HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT DAMNED WORD), tell him of this daemonic entity that wished of his demise, and organise to be returned to the forsaken knights. Simple. The daemons treacherous words still clung like barnacles to the back of his mind, and used them as a tool of rage to assist in his clearing his head.
Governor.
I use the Ginger spell checker: http://www.gingersoftware.com/spellcheck It is far better than any other tool I used before. It still makes a lot of mistakes, so you need to read and reread everything. And it is free.
As curran12 says, there is something odd in the way your characters behave. The Daemon/god should be tempting, not yelling. Even Malal, hatred and self-destruction incarnated, would know that trying to convince someone by being rude is bound to failure. And the Marine, a zealot educated since birth to hate everything, which main flaw is pride, should be the one yelling. They do not try to outsmart the enemy with witty words and false promises. That is the way Daemons work, not Marines.
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice (I prefer Malal) is the personification of Chaos tendency to self-destruction. It hates other Chaos Gods, and it hates Chaos, and it hates itself. Is suicide, existential anguish, self-mutilation. Imagine a boy in a school, nobody talks to him.... he wants to die, he wants to kill everyone and then kill himself. Malal is the emotion in him, the cancer devouring his soul.
Malal does not do things "for fun". He does stuff out of hatred and the need to destroy everything.
The servants of Malal are "those who hate what they serve". Chaos gods do not go behind people to tempt them, it is the other way around. A Marine that starts getting too much fun while killing will eventually get in contact with Khorne. This Marine, to be contacted by Malal, must have switched sides already in his soul, at least to a certain degree: he hates what he serves. As a Marine, this means he hates the Emperor and the Imperium, and sees them as something impure that should be destroyed. Or perhaps his soul is at the border of the Abyss and his decisions will save or damn his soul. But he cannot be "pure": Chaos cannot get near "pure" people.
By the way, I am saying "Malal", but what I mean is "a Malal Daemon". Malal is a god that predates the creation of time itself, an entity from another dimension made out of raw emotion... It sounds strange that a god will contact a mere mortal, no matter the reason. Aaron Dembski-Bowden did it in Soul Hunter, but you are not ADB. So I will recommend to get a Greater Daemon of Malal doing the job. Sounds better
This is how they look like when in battle (your depiction as pure darkness is better for a first contact):
Spoiler:
Good luck! It is always good to see other players trying to create new stuff.
I just want to say that this is one of the best descriptions of Malal I have ever read. No, in fact the best. I actually enjoyed reading it. I was going to post something in response to the "Malal finds it funny" but I wasn't sure what. I just knew that it felt wrong to have Malal chuckling away at playing a joke on another god. Malal doesn't play jokes, Malal hates. But I wasn't quite sure what I would say and then you come along and put it perfectly.
Malal has always been my favourite Chaos god. Right back from when I used to read the Kaleb Daark comic at the back of White Dwarf (Kaleb was a champion of Malal who rode a flesh-eating horse).
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
Argus felt the ground beneath him, the cool caress of solid land on his cheek. It was minutes before his retinas healed from their ordeal. He vomited. And vomited again. He stood, his armoured bulk rising slowly and his usual ease of movement slowed (why is slowed censored) and fell on his face on the reddish dirt expanse that extended in all directions. His brain felt as tough he had swallowed a barrel of space wolf mead. But this did not matter: the stupid Daemon had believed him! Now, he had to find this planet's gouvener ( HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT DAMNED WORD), tell him of this daemonic entity that wished of his demise, and organise to be returned to the forsaken knights. Simple. The daemons treacherous words still clung like barnacles to the back of his mind, and used them as a tool of rage to assist in his clearing his head.
Governor.
I use the Ginger spell checker: http://www.gingersoftware.com/spellcheck It is far better than any other tool I used before. It still makes a lot of mistakes, so you need to read and reread everything. And it is free.
As curran12 says, there is something odd in the way your characters behave. The Daemon/god should be tempting, not yelling. Even Malal, hatred and self-destruction incarnated, would know that trying to convince someone by being rude is bound to failure. And the Marine, a zealot educated since birth to hate everything, which main flaw is pride, should be the one yelling. They do not try to outsmart the enemy with witty words and false promises. That is the way Daemons work, not Marines.
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice (I prefer Malal) is the personification of Chaos tendency to self-destruction. It hates other Chaos Gods, and it hates Chaos, and it hates itself. Is suicide, existential anguish, self-mutilation. Imagine a boy in a school, nobody talks to him.... he wants to die, he wants to kill everyone and then kill himself. Malal is the emotion in him, the cancer devouring his soul.
Malal does not do things "for fun". He does stuff out of hatred and the need to destroy everything.
The servants of Malal are "those who hate what they serve". Chaos gods do not go behind people to tempt them, it is the other way around. A Marine that starts getting too much fun while killing will eventually get in contact with Khorne. This Marine, to be contacted by Malal, must have switched sides already in his soul, at least to a certain degree: he hates what he serves. As a Marine, this means he hates the Emperor and the Imperium, and sees them as something impure that should be destroyed. Or perhaps his soul is at the border of the Abyss and his decisions will save or damn his soul. But he cannot be "pure": Chaos cannot get near "pure" people.
By the way, I am saying "Malal", but what I mean is "a Malal Daemon". Malal is a god that predates the creation of time itself, an entity from another dimension made out of raw emotion... It sounds strange that a god will contact a mere mortal, no matter the reason. Aaron Dembski-Bowden did it in Soul Hunter, but you are not ADB. So I will recommend to get a Greater Daemon of Malal doing the job. Sounds better
This is how they look like when in battle (your depiction as pure darkness is better for a first contact):
Spoiler:
Good luck! It is always good to see other players trying to create new stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 20:16:58
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
Keep reading, keep writing, and enjoy both. It's a skill that needs to be practiced.
And recognize that different people have different tastes. Especially based on age. A person of 30 probably isn't going to enjoy most things written by a person of 16 because it will seem a little simplistic to them and the same things wont always be cool to them. But someone of 16 might love it. If you write something and YOU are happy with it, then listen to other people's criticism, but decide whether or not it is appropriate for you.
I mean I like romances. But me telling you to add a romantic sub-plot to your novel of battle-hardened marines is not necessarily good advice. However, if I told you that you needed to make your characters more varied because they all seemed similar, that would be good advice. You should learn to distinguish between the two kinds. It will help with not getting discouraged by criticism (which everybody needs because it's how we improve).
That said, use a spell-checker. It really helps.
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
da001. That was brilliant! Anyways, I think it simply ends in.... there is no such thing as good as such a notion never existed to begin with. In the world of 40k, their is hope, love, honor, and joy but it is all drowned out in endless tides of disparity, war, and decay. The warp was once peaceful, almost heavenlike but a war and psykers ravished it. It is now a chaotic wasteland of change, shifting moods, tides of souls and dreams swirling around in a vortex before easing out into a stream of sensation. The chaos gods are based upon desires, chaos. They serve themself as the emotions that construct them are selfish. Everbody in the world is selfish, the donator, the one that spends their time with the impoverished, they all do it for their personal benefit in one way or another. Chaos too serves itself. Chaos does what is best for them, what they feel will benefit them most. It is arguable that if a khorne god could, they would set about doing "good" actions but these in the end are to propogate war, martial pride, honor, slaughter, and bathing the lands in red. Slaanesh is focused on perfection, love, pleasure, excess and thus would do things for their benefit. Tzeentch would promote hope, change, aspirations. The shifting of a competent leader that would bring a world of a civil war to order would be a revelution of change answering hopes but so too would it sunder a thousand worlds into revolution. And nurgle would embrace planets with the love of plague that he thinks is a gfit unto us but most of us don't very much care for being walking pustules I suppose . In other words, if they do something good.... it is because to them it would benefit them in some way by providing them more souls and emotions that are oriented to their preference, whatever that might be (and more worshippers mmm).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/18 21:43:47
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
No, there's no evidence for that at all. Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level), that entered the materium as of the turn of the 41st Millennium and was summoned by his cult of Chaos Space Marines. That's all we know of him, and there's nothing to suggest he has any great power at all to affect such. That's simply the Astartes of the little-known Chapter being that good or the Emprah empowering him via acts of faith.
EDIT-
Also, it should be noted that cultists of Malice are exceptionally brutal and have no allegiances and aren't 'good guys' (they're anarchy, they attack everything). For example, the Sons of Malice are likely on par with a large and powerful Slaanesh cult or Khorne cult, what with dragging forth hundreds (possibly thousands of sacrifices), then suspending them in the air and slicing their throats for all of them to bathe in blood.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/18 22:52:33
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level
Lexicanum refers to Malice as a god, albeit a minor one, and Malice / Malal has been a god going back a long way. Malal disappeared for a while with Realms of Chaos but whenever he has been explicitly named, it was as a god.
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level
Lexicanum refers to Malice as a god, albeit a minor one, and Malice / Malal has been a god going back a long way. Malal disappeared for a while with Realms of Chaos but whenever he has been explicitly named, it was as a god.
Yes, and I own the single story in which he appeared in. There is no evidence supporting that he is a god besides that of his followers, and mind you people have been confused into believing Greater Daemons were deities before. Either he is on par with a Greater Daemon in power or he is one of the numerous incredibly weak 'gods' that inhabit the warp.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level
Lexicanum refers to Malice as a god, albeit a minor one, and Malice / Malal has been a god going back a long way. Malal disappeared for a while with Realms of Chaos but whenever he has been explicitly named, it was as a god.
Yes, and I own the single story in which he appeared in. There is no evidence supporting that he is a god besides that of his followers, and mind you people have been confused into believing Greater Daemons were deities before. Either he is on par with a Greater Daemon in power or he is one of the numerous incredibly weak 'gods' that inhabit the warp.
Basically, Malal / Malice was conceived as a god, was historically portrayed as a god and has now appeared in WH40K cannon where some describe him as a god but they could conceivably be mistaken. But you have no evidence that they are and it flies in the face of the history of the character. So basically you can say that in the WH40K setting its possible that in this instance he isn't, but you've no basis to come in here and start boldly stating that he isn't. You just prefer, for reasons of your own, to go against the history of the character and seize on the possibility that because the WH40K references are in-character, they could be false. That's fine. But don't pretend to authority on this.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/18 23:17:11
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level
Lexicanum refers to Malice as a god, albeit a minor one, and Malice / Malal has been a god going back a long way. Malal disappeared for a while with Realms of Chaos but whenever he has been explicitly named, it was as a god.
Yes, and I own the single story in which he appeared in. There is no evidence supporting that he is a god besides that of his followers, and mind you people have been confused into believing Greater Daemons were deities before. Either he is on par with a Greater Daemon in power or he is one of the numerous incredibly weak 'gods' that inhabit the warp.
Basically, Malal / Malice was conceived as a god, was historically portrayed as a god and has now appeared in WH40K cannon where some describe him as a god but they could conceivably be mistaken. But you have no evidence that they are and it flies in the face of the history of the character. So basically you can say that in the WH40K setting its possible that in this instance he isn't, but you've no basis to come in here and start boldly stating that he isn't. You just prefer, for reasons of your own, to go against the history of the character and seize on the possibility that because the WH40K references are in-character, they could be false. That's fine. But don't pretend to authority on this.
Malal is a different entity than Malice, and was retconned due to a copyright mishap with Games Workshop. There is only one source on Malice, one short story. There is no evidence showing him to be on the power level of a Chaos God (especially by him being able to enter the materium, which makes him remarkably weaker). Now you have to back up your claims with evidence that Malice has demonstrated himself to be or there is Word from God that he is a universe-ending reality warping abomination and not just one of the trillions minor unaligned warp entities. Malal's information cannot be used, as he is a separate, retconned entity with all information on him being removed from play (and even then, it was related to Warhammer Fantasy, not Warhammer 40k) and not a true Chaos God.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level
Lexicanum refers to Malice as a god, albeit a minor one, and Malice / Malal has been a god going back a long way. Malal disappeared for a while with Realms of Chaos but whenever he has been explicitly named, it was as a god.
Yes, and I own the single story in which he appeared in. There is no evidence supporting that he is a god besides that of his followers, and mind you people have been confused into believing Greater Daemons were deities before. Either he is on par with a Greater Daemon in power or he is one of the numerous incredibly weak 'gods' that inhabit the warp.
Basically, Malal / Malice was conceived as a god, was historically portrayed as a god and has now appeared in WH40K cannon where some describe him as a god but they could conceivably be mistaken. But you have no evidence that they are and it flies in the face of the history of the character. So basically you can say that in the WH40K setting its possible that in this instance he isn't, but you've no basis to come in here and start boldly stating that he isn't. You just prefer, for reasons of your own, to go against the history of the character and seize on the possibility that because the WH40K references are in-character, they could be false. That's fine. But don't pretend to authority on this.
Malal is a different entity than Malice, and was retconned due to a copyright mishap with Games Workshop. There is only one source on Malice, one short story. There is no evidence showing him to be on the power level of a Chaos God (especially by him being able to enter the materium, which makes him remarkably weaker). Now you have to back up your claims with evidence that Malice has demonstrated himself to be or there is Word from God that he is a universe-ending reality warping abomination and not just one of the trillions minor unaligned warp entities. Malal's information cannot be used, as he is a separate, retconned entity with all information on him being removed from play (and even then, it was related to Warhammer Fantasy, not Warhammer 40k) and not a true Chaos God.
Now hold on there. Where did I write that he was on the power level of the Big Four? I wrote "minor god". We've a number of references for there being plenty of other lesser gods. They're still called gods and more than a "weak daemon" as Wyzilla termed him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 23:30:16
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
the shrouded lord wrote: Oh, right. Some khorne "dudes" are about to launch an incursion on the Planet. Malice thinks it will be beneficial (funny) to everyone (him) if a single space marine of a little known chapter stops it.
Malice isn't a god, he's a weak daemon (probably around Greater Daemon-Daemon Prince level
Lexicanum refers to Malice as a god, albeit a minor one, and Malice / Malal has been a god going back a long way. Malal disappeared for a while with Realms of Chaos but whenever he has been explicitly named, it was as a god.
Yes, and I own the single story in which he appeared in. There is no evidence supporting that he is a god besides that of his followers, and mind you people have been confused into believing Greater Daemons were deities before. Either he is on par with a Greater Daemon in power or he is one of the numerous incredibly weak 'gods' that inhabit the warp.
Basically, Malal / Malice was conceived as a god, was historically portrayed as a god and has now appeared in WH40K cannon where some describe him as a god but they could conceivably be mistaken. But you have no evidence that they are and it flies in the face of the history of the character. So basically you can say that in the WH40K setting its possible that in this instance he isn't, but you've no basis to come in here and start boldly stating that he isn't. You just prefer, for reasons of your own, to go against the history of the character and seize on the possibility that because the WH40K references are in-character, they could be false. That's fine. But don't pretend to authority on this.
Malal is a different entity than Malice, and was retconned due to a copyright mishap with Games Workshop. There is only one source on Malice, one short story. There is no evidence showing him to be on the power level of a Chaos God (especially by him being able to enter the materium, which makes him remarkably weaker). Now you have to back up your claims with evidence that Malice has demonstrated himself to be or there is Word from God that he is a universe-ending reality warping abomination and not just one of the trillions minor unaligned warp entities. Malal's information cannot be used, as he is a separate, retconned entity with all information on him being removed from play (and even then, it was related to Warhammer Fantasy, not Warhammer 40k) and not a true Chaos God.
Now hold on there. Where did I write that he was on the power level of the Big Four? I wrote "minor god". We've a number of references for there being plenty of other lesser gods. They're still called gods and more than a "weak daemon" as Wyzilla termed him.
That's all 'minor gods' are, they're among the trillion of weaker daemons that live in the Immaterium that people will refer to as 'gods', which is false labeling as their powers are simply that of a Greater Daemon at best, and certainly aren't on par with those of a Chaos God or warp entity like the God Emperor of Mankind. They're stronger than lesser daemons easily, but Malice certainly lacks the power to have an omnidirectional view of the galaxy, considering he's now a physical being. And there's never been any information on him having Daemons- that was a canned idea with Malal before he got wiped.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
What you could do is to just have the poor Marine dragged into a portal and to that planet he needed to get to, and once there, help stop that Khornate invasion. If it begins shortly after his arrival, he won't really have a choice. Using an unwitting Marine pawn to foil one of Khorne's plans in realspace sounds very Tzeentchy to me, so it'd make sense that he'd do it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/19 01:43:16
Well, at least according to the wiki. Lords of Change are the only daemons known to help forces of order. I dunno the source for that, though (and I imagine that even then, they presumably only help with a larger plot/plan in mind)
The thing is, and good people like curren have tried to help me, I am terribly repetitive in my writing, I know it. if any one knows a way to stop this, SAY IT!
the shrouded lord wrote: The thing is, and good people like curren have tried to help me, I am terribly repetitive in my writing, I know it. if any one knows a way to stop this, SAY IT!
Read what you've already written. Write something different.
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
That's all 'minor gods' are, they're among the trillion of weaker daemons that live in the Immaterium that people will refer to as 'gods', which is false labeling as their powers are simply that of a Greater Daemon at best, and certainly aren't on par with those of a Chaos God or warp entity like the God Emperor of Mankind. They're stronger than lesser daemons easily, but Malice certainly lacks the power to have an omnidirectional view of the galaxy, considering he's now a physical being. And there's never been any information on him having Daemons- that was a canned idea with Malal before he got wiped.
Whoa stop there. Ok let me start with Malal. Then Malice.
There is a big difference between a "Chaos God" (minor or not) and a "Chaos Daemon". You can read it on Codex: Chaos Daemons. Any of them, since this has been copy-pasted almost word by word since it first appeared in Realm of Chaos, 1989. All quotes in the spoilers are from page 6 and 7 last Codex. I know you know most of this but quoting it will perhaps help others, and it costs me just a small effort, since I am copy-pasting the quotes from other topic.
The Warp is a spiritual dimension made of emotions:
Spoiler:
“(...) there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds. It lies on the other side of dreams and nightmares, infinite in scope but without form or structure. This realm is composed of love and hate, fear and hope, ambition and despair, and yet is an uncaring, emotionless void.”
Emotions that eventually became Chaos Gods:
Spoiler:
“In the Warp, similar thoughts and emotions gather together like rivulets of water (…). They form streams and eddies of anguish and desire, pools of hatred and torrents of pride. (…) these tides and waves have flowed unceasingly (…) and such is their power that they formed creatures made of the very stuff of unreality. Eventually, these instinctual, formless beings gained a rudimentary consciousness. The Chaos Gods were born, vast psychic presences made of the fantasies and horrors of mortals.”
So Chaos Gods are emotions. The Chaos Gods for humans are human emotions, or emotions humans can relate to. In the setting there are four emotions far more powerful than the rest: Wrath, Hope, Defiance against Death and Obsession.
Spoiler:
“He is wrath incarnate, the embodiment of a never-ending lust to dominate and destroy.” “He listens to the hopes of every sentient being (…) and the ambitions of nations create a force that can change history. Tzeentch is the embodiment of that force.” “The greatest inspiration comes in the darkest moments (...)He is the hidden fear of disease and decay, the gnawing truth of mortality and the power of defiance it generates”. “He is the God of Obsession, the Master of Excess in all things, from gluttony to lust to megalomania. (...)… wherever the lust for power and temporal gain exists, the talons of Slaanesh dig deep.”
One last thing about the Chaos Gods: they are the Warp. They cannot move away from the Warp. They are "locations" inside the Warp. Inside the spiritual reign of Chaos, there is a place that is made of Wrath. This place is Khorne. It is a place, and at the same time a more or less sentient being. "Rudimentary conscience" is used to describe it. So the Chaos Gods do not do things by themselves. Instead, they use Chaos Daemons.
Chaos Daemons are a completely different thing: they are a part of a specific Chaos God, severed from the rest, and given intelligence, sentience, awareness and purpose, all four things the Chaos Gods have "only in the crudest of ways"
Spoiler:
“A Daemon is ‘born’ when a Chaos God expends a portion of its power to create a separate being. This power binds a collection of senses, thoughts and purposes together, creating a personality and consciosness that can move within the Warp.”
One important trait: Daemons can be destroyed by their masters, at any time. Actually, it is the only way they can be destroyed:
Spoiler:
“The Chaos God can reclaim the independence it has given to its Daemon children at any time, thus ensuring their loyalty. It is only through the loss of this power that a Daemon can be truly destroyed, its mind dissolving into the whils and currents of Warp space.”
Malal was introduced as a fith god. As in "Malal, the Fith God of Chaos" and "Malal, the Outcast God". The creators (I provided a link above, there are more) intended it to be a god. And it was the way it appeared. The simple fact that Malal wants to destroy the Chaos Gods will tell you that he is not a servant of them (a Chaos Daemon), since Daemons are but a part of a chaos god. Models were designed both for Lesser Daemons and Greater Daemons, and a number of Chaos Champions were created. I can give you four: Skrag, Heinrich Bors, an unnamed albino (Elric´s references all over the place) and Kaleb Daark. And unpublished sketches for another unit, Beasts of Malal, were confirmed by the GW´s artist Tony Ackland.
Malal was never a Chaos Daemon, "a section of a Chaos God that can be destroyed by this god at any time", but a Chaos God, an emotion. Malal was self-destruction, suicide, existential anguish, self-hatred, a part of Chaos that wanted to destroy Chaos, The Renegade God. He was nurtured by the emotions of "those who served what they hate". It was supposed to be "Chaos 2.0", far more "evil" than the rest, to the point that this is perhaps the reason it hasn´t appeared in recent Codices. Chaos has been toned down in darkness a lot, and Malal is "kill everything then kill yourself and end it all". It is hard to tone down that. He is described as "the most depraved, the most evil, the least sane" of all Chaos Gods.
He was also supposed to be Chaos 2.0 in another sense: "he who was before", "that which was all direction was thrown against itself". Malal was hinted to be Chaos itself. Chaos was a spiritual dimension with no sentience nor purpose, awaken by the War in Heaven. The Chaos Gods are an immune system, activated after the Old One´s meddling and the Necron´s attack. But they grew in power and greed, and wanted to dominate (there is a quote for this too). Malal is hinted to be the part of Chaos that wants to stop this, by killing the Chaos Gods and then killing itself, and so the Warp will return to its natural state of consciousness. This is taken from the Elric saga (Elric was being manipulated by the gods to kill all gods and let the humans be masters of their own fates) and hinted at some points "outraged by the words of the gods..." "mighty indignant at the words of the gods...". What did the gods say?
Malal is a different entity than Malice, and was retconned due to a copyright mishap with Games Workshop. There is only one source on Malice, one short story. There is no evidence showing him to be on the power level of a Chaos God (especially by him being able to enter the materium, which makes him remarkably weaker). Now you have to back up your claims with evidence that Malice has demonstrated himself to be or there is Word from God that he is a universe-ending reality warping abomination and not just one of the trillions minor unaligned warp entities. Malal's information cannot be used, as he is a separate, retconned entity with all information on him being removed from play (and even then, it was related to Warhammer Fantasy, not Warhammer 40k) and not a true Chaos God.
Malal was last referenced in 1995.
Malal was for 40k too. He was introduced when both universes were conected. Malal is a word that shares the same root than words such Malign, Malignancy, Malice and the Spanish Mal (which means Evil). The word appears in most languages world wide, including the Urdu Malaal and Malal (meaning "anguish"). They didn´t change the name, they just translated it. It is the same entity. Calling Malal "Malice" is like calling Khorne "Wrath". From the story you read: "Malice, the Renegade God, the Outcast", same titles than Malal. Same colors, same iconography. By the way, the first name of Malal was "Malevolence".
However, if the story you read (which was written in 2009) a significant change happens: Malice enters the real world. This is odd, but was referenced in Realm of Chaos, 1989. It is not new fluff, it is old fluff. Page 123 Slaves of Darkness:
Spoiler:
"The lesser Chaos Powers can also give birth to a Daemon. The ripples of warpspace create short lived and very minor Powers, some of whom invest all their energy in a single Daemon. They ‘become’ the Daemon, and gain independence from the Warp´s ceaseless currents (…) Only the weakest Powers choose such an existence".
Notice that the Chaos God dies in most senses while doing this, which is the reason why ‘becoming’ is between ‘’ (I guess).
So, canonically, Malice has become a Chaos Daemon, thus dying as a Chaos God.
So you are partly right, he is now a Daemon. But there are some differences:
1: you said Malal was never a god, just a daemon. He was a Chaos God, he turned into a Chaos Daemon in the story you read. That is, cannonically, the way a god becomes an "Independent Daemon", a concept from 1989 Realm of Chaos. In most senses he is far less powerful, but at the same time he is free to move and can focus on doing things. And it was intentional. And, by the way, he cannot be destroyed.
2: the same emotion that created Malal the first time will re-create a new Malal eventually. Suicide and self-hatred will not fade away because the god itself is missing. These emotions are not created by the gods, they are created by sentient beings from all the points of the galaxy.
3: he got some Daemons. Lesser and Greater and Beasts.
And he is alive and active in the setting. Quite a lot. A completely different thing is that most authors ignore it.
There is something else though: all Undivided Chaos was retconned in 2013 by Phil Kelly. After copy-pasting the background section of Alessio Cavatore´s Codex: Chaos Daemons, he add a single sentence, establishing that there were only FOUR gods. That means that:
1- according to the fluff he blindly copy-pasted, there are only FOUR human emotions. Good job, Kelly.
2- undivided characters like Ingethel (a main character in The First Heretic that first appeared about 20 years ago), Lorgar, Perturabo, Malal, Acerbus and many, many others must now pick a god or disappear.
It is one of the most senseless retcons GW has done.
One last thing about Malal/Malice: The story you read was written by a Richard Ford, who never before and never again wrote anything else that I know of.
Alternate option: this is from an interview with Gav Thorpe :
Spoiler:
Q: Are there any plans to "put back" Malal into chaos?
A: None at all. Aside from any old copyright issues, I personally find the idea of the anti-Chaos Chaos god inconsistent with the way Chaos is supposed to work. However, the idea of personifying the self-destructive side of Chaos is an interesting one and formed much of the inspiration behind Be'lakor."
Kaleb is Belak, of course, and Be´Lakor was first introduced as a former Chaos God who had been exiled from the Warp after a war against its brothers:
Spoiler:
"Once I was a god, the ruler of a great dark circle which the insect-like creatures of this world call Morrslieb. I was beyond good and evil, my powers waxed as I used the very core of my world to grant me power over matter and mind.
As time passed, I lusted for power. I reached out to the greater realms, conspired, and there was war in the black heavens. The third part of the Host of Chaos rose up in arms with me and waged war on the greater powers of the Utterdark and sought to destroy them. The skies were lit with the flames of battle.
But the war turned against me and like a fiery star I was cast down, exiled from my lofty abode, only a shard of my world with me to give me power and dominion over the lands beneath. In my majesty I descended, and my coming brought down the lowly abodes of the pathetic beings which inhabit this poisonous, repulsive world.
As I plummeted down and all was chaos and destruction before me, the Dark Shard, my very essence of life was shattered. Now lie almost powerless, a mere shadow of my former self, a dying husk alone in this alien world.
I must admit I am yet to verify the veracity of these two quotes. Finding information about Malal is quite complicated. It was a fan-favorite god and there are too many fan-made really cool stuff.
the shrouded lord wrote: The thing is, and good people like curren have tried to help me, I am terribly repetitive in my writing, I know it. if any one knows a way to stop this, SAY IT!
As said before, read and write a lot. Practice makes perfection.
And what knas ser said: read and reread what you wrote. Rewrite it if needed.
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
the shrouded lord wrote: The thing is, and good people like curren have tried to help me, I am terribly repetitive in my writing, I know it. if any one knows a way to stop this, SAY IT!
In reference to your conversation between the Argos and the daemon above, it's a good first draft, but it needs cleaning up.
Condense that conversation. Have your speakers say more than one sentence at a time is a great way to do that.
Something like this (forgive my formatting):
Extreaminatus' Editorial Stylings wrote:
"Astartes," the voice, deep and strong, yet layered and distorted like a bad vox transmission seemed to come from everywhere, "Wake now, Astartes, you are in my domain."
Argos scanned the darkness around him and saw nothing but black, "Where am I? Who are you?! Show yourself, xenos!" He had is weapons in his hands, his finger loose around the trigger of his bolt pistol. (or whatever weapon he has)
There was a slow chuckle from the darkness around him, vibrating his insides through his armor, "Look around, astartes, and gaze upon me," there was another slow laugh, "I have called you here because I have need of a distraction, mortal, a diversion. That is all you are to me here."
"Mortal? You over-estimate yourself, only the Emperor is truly immortal," Argos replied, the mention of the Emperor filling him with conviction and confidence. Suddenly, the blackness around him swirled red as thin tendrils struck out and imbedded themselves in the Space Marine's neck. Argos dropped his weapons, his hands wrapped around the inky tendrils, trying to pull them out of his flesh.
"Rudeness will not be tolerated here! You are in my home, mortal, I am lord here!" the tendrils spun ever so deeper into Argos' neck, "Your 'Emperor' is a corpse not worthy enough to feed the weakest of the Plague God's maggots."
You see how describing the character (mostly Argos) performing actions or having his mannerisms described before/after speaking adds more tension and action to a scene that was just two talking heads yelling at each other? Think of how your characters are reacting to the conversation as it progresses. Surely, they're not just stitting there talking and doing nothing.
Argos is a Space Marine, he's not going to stand by and do nothing when confronted with something new and unknown. He's trained to fight, not converse, and that should be reflected by not only his dialogue, but also his actions during dialogue. I would think that he would be looking for something to fight. I also doubt he'd give in as easily as he has in your draft.
The daemon, once you decide on a diety (I personally think that Malice is an okay choice, but the Big Four have much more for you to draw upon since you're unconfortable spinning new yarn), has its own way of behaving. And all daemons, regardless of origin, would never spell everything out so plainly as it has in your conversation. They speak in half-truths and outright lies as they see fit. Even if its grand plan was to stop Khorne from claiming the world, he'd never tell Argos that. I would have him send Argos to planet regardless of his desires and have him save it on his own (with the daemon's help along the way to buy Argos' soul by degrees until he's so corrupted he can't turn back). After all, it's an Imperial world under attack, Argos wouldn't just stand by and let the world fall.
So, while you have a great starting point, there's a lot of refinement to do. Writing something like this won't happen in a couple of hours, it's going to take time and practice. Don't force it, let it come on its own and don't be afraid to ask questions or for help.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/19 13:38:41
Go forth and amplify, here come the NOISE MARINES!
Sons of Cacophony: Construction Finished, Forever Unpainted
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD! 
. In other words, if they do something good.... it is because to them it would benefit them in some way by providing them more souls and emotions that are oriented to their preference, whatever that might be (and more worshippers 
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