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 horizon wrote:
Battlefleet Gothic

+9000

Battlefleet Gothic 198%

What about inquisitor? The models for that were sweet and you could be super imaginative with your characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And necromunda.. I always preferred the aesthetics of necromumda to 40k itself.. The whole gang underworld, bounty hunters, judge dredd type feel.

Surely Dark Heresy is a suitable replacement for Inquisitor?
The models looked nice but being 54mm they don't fit in with the rest of the GW range making it harder to kitbash

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Surely Dark Heresy is a suitable replacement for Inquisitor?

No. It's a reasonable game, but it is not any kind of replacement for Inquisitor.

To take up my earlier point again, Inquisitor is a game where I can envision a cast of characters and then write them as I want them. Dark Heresy is a system designed for each player to have one character - who tends to need months or even years of levelling up to get to the point where the player envisions them ending up. While I enjoy Dark Heresy, the character creation is a lot more limited.

For an example of what I've been able to do with Inquisitor's options, I wrote Inquisitrix Katlien Vance as something of an internal affairs Inquisitor, hunting down rogue members of the Ordos. But the story is so much more interesting when alongside Interrogator Nyi Laysen - formerly a pupil of an Inquisitor who Katlien executed, but who was herself spared to become Katlien's mentee (being seemingly untainted by her previous master and far too talented as an investigator to simply kill).
This has developed into one of my favourite interactions - while the two manage to get along most of the time, the somewhat rocky past between them makes for some fantastic tensions.

These are themes and possibilities I can't explore with Dark Heresy, at least without having to ask an unreasonable amount of cooperation from another player, but there are no problems doing it with Inquisitor.

I enjoy Dark Heresy, but it offers something really very different and shares only superficial similarities.

 Kelly502 wrote:
I loved the Dark Future, the models were great, I think it was 15mm. Cool cars...
.

It was 20mm to fit with Matchbox cars.

Litcheur wrote:
Bring-Them-Back-Now -Tier.

1. Warmaster. A really, really nice system, very streamlined and quite elegant. The 10mm minis where quite fine. Don't update orchange anything, just bring the minis BACK !

2. Man O War. It was very nice game, and unfortunately, the minis are so hard to find the game's basically dead.

3. Epic. Same things applies. Not to mention the very positive effects it would have on 40k : no more flyers, no more stupid SuperHeavies.

4. Necromunda. The rules would need a good clean-up, and new minis would be nice too.

5. Space Hulk. Of course.

Don't-Need-GW-Anymore-We're-Fine-Thanks-Tier.
Mordheim and BloodBowl.

Don't-Even-Bother-Tier.
Warhammer Quest, Inquisitor, Gorgamorka, Battlefleet Gothic, Aeronautica Imperialis and Dreadfleet.

I would add Aeronautica Imperialis to the Don't Need-GW-Anymore tier as well except for the models side of things. other than that, the community has done a fine job making up rules, missions, scenarios, factions, etc.

Out of curiosity, what criteria did you use to determine the Don't-Even-Bother-Tier?

After playing Mice and Mystics, Last Night on Earth (and derivatives) and other similar games it feels like the market would respond well to a Warhammer Quest/Heroquest style game? Of course, it would need some revamping and updating to bring it up to the standards of the new century.

No one care to mention Dreadfleet?

wufai wrote:
No one care to mention Dreadfleet?

Why? Even being charitable, it is by far one of the weakest games GW have ever produced. Not being charitable; it's utter crap. If you want to scratch the Fantasy sailing itch, play Man O' War. Why GW thought it best to reinvent the wheel, I don't know.

Well, I have or have had all the games that have been listed, and honestly not sure how many would really get any more attention than they already have (and eventually lost) when they were originally released. The only thing I can think of would be Epic, even though Epic 40k and Epic A were bombs, regardless of whether you liked the rules. I have always thought that the emphasis should be titans and gargants, with infantry and vehicles, as opposed to infantry and vehicles, with a single titan. But GW would prob screw up Epic v5 anyway.

If you kept the game as close as to the original as possible, I guess Epic Space Marine/Titan Legions. If was far more successful than any other game mentioned here.

I love Man O War, Warhammer Quest, and the original Necromunda box set. There were a lot of games in those game boxes.

When it comes to specialist games, I would be very happy if GW relaunched Battlefeet Gothic, Necromunda or Space Hulk. Having built up a good collection of each, I would be ecstatic if I could add some of the newer models... especially if they were in plastic.

It is going to be Mordheim 1st,

And a tie between Necromunda and BFG... I miss the Craftworld Eldar, and being able to buy the Redeemer for non insane eBay prices.

Gorkamorka! followed closely by an updated necromunda. We still play most of those games except Epic and man'o'war (both of which I've never played, to my shame), I find the rules for bloodbowl and mordheim do fine but have very fond memories of my digga's running around and failing to be orks!

bfg is awesome
inquisitor is awesome
space hulk is awesome
necromunda is awesome
epic is awesome
mordheim is awesome
i imagine ia, gorka morka, man o war, warhammer quest and war master are also awesome
gw dropping specialist games = not awesome
how hard would it be to have 3 or 4 blokes on the staff keeping these games running and at least providing some competition for the newer games companies that are producing similar sized/priced games? star trek/star wars/infinity etc

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

Necromunda 100% I love the game and would love to see a revamp of the minis.

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Necromunda! As much as i enjoy kit bashing gangs together i would love to have house gangs already made again

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Hmm, perhaps something more akin to Kill Team then, so still based on the more contemporary rule systems, but with more narrative elements like Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Mordheim en Inquisitor had.

True, but if you like the gameplay/rules of Necromunda, 2nd edition is the way to go.

Hmm, I'm more interested in the narrative and character development aspect of Necromunda. The rules are more of a secondary thing to me.

If we can only have the one, then I would choose necromunda. However, if we can make a list to be released in an order, then it would be;
1) necromunda
2) warhammer quest
3) mordenheim

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

Mordheim and necromunda

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

Precisely the reason I never find 40K as fulfilling - it lacks most of the emergent narrative elements that make Gorkamorka/Necromunda/Mordheim campaigns special. It's a great game but there's more to the SGs than just their in-game similarity to 2nd edition.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

I haven't played Necromunda in years, but as far as I can remember unless you are specifically playing a Necromunda campaign, which I never got to do, than with a little work you can take everything you would get from a one-off game of Necromunda other than skills, and put them in games of 2nd edition.

Take 2nd edition, remove all rules for squad cohesion and unit cohesion. Buy troops for your skirmish force with their individual points values (so a Tactical Space Marine with bolter is 30pts). Designate a "leader" at the start of the game, which functions for leadership and bottle tests just like a gang leader. All equipment is handled the same mechanical way as in Necromunda, minus the ammo tests. Add in the Necromunda rules for being "downed" and getting Flesh Wounds during a fight.

You aren't going to be able to easily use the experience system for campaigns, but using the Necromunda rules with the 2nd edition 40K codexes and tiny point value games gives you the same control (and effects) over individual models as Necromunda.

It's not "Necromunda with Space Marines and Eldar" but it makes for a very solid skirmish-based enhancement of the 2nd edition 40K rules.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Surely Dark Heresy is a suitable replacement for Inquisitor?

No. It's a reasonable game, but it is not any kind of replacement for Inquisitor.

To take up my earlier point again, Inquisitor is a game where I can envision a cast of characters and then write them as I want them. Dark Heresy is a system designed for each player to have one character - who tends to need months or even years of levelling up to get to the point where the player envisions them ending up. While I enjoy Dark Heresy, the character creation is a lot more limited.

For an example of what I've been able to do with Inquisitor's options, I wrote Inquisitrix Katlien Vance as something of an internal affairs Inquisitor, hunting down rogue members of the Ordos. But the story is so much more interesting when alongside Interrogator Nyi Laysen - formerly a pupil of an Inquisitor who Katlien executed, but who was herself spared to become Katlien's mentee (being seemingly untainted by her previous master and far too talented as an investigator to simply kill).
This has developed into one of my favourite interactions - while the two manage to get along most of the time, the somewhat rocky past between them makes for some fantastic tensions.

These are themes and possibilities I can't explore with Dark Heresy, at least without having to ask an unreasonable amount of cooperation from another player, but there are no problems doing it with Inquisitor.

I enjoy Dark Heresy, but it offers something really very different and shares only superficial similarities.

This is very true. I have the actual dead tree Inquisitor rulebook sitting on my shelf (I had the BFG rules too but I sold them at a yard sale for $5...moron that I was). It is the only game I can think of offhand that really falls into the niche of the "Narrative Wargame". It is incredible how it straddles the line between wargame and RPG. I don't think that it was ever capable of being popular even by Specialist Game standards because you really had to understand both wargames and RPGs to get at the kind of game it was trying to be. Even then it didn't really do either of those too well on its own.

I could probably talk quite a bit about the game design that I feel like went into it, but that most likely wouldn't be a productive use of anybody's time

If you guys really want a 40k skirmish game, check these guys out:

http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html

They are constantly updating and taking suggestions, play testing. It's a great (and much better) alternative to GW's kill team rules.

Mordheim hands down. The best gw game they have made. I think its better than necromunda although thats a fun game too.

I wouldn't trust GW with any of those games nowadays. Leaving them out in the rain only looks neglectful until you look at what they were up to inside the house. Poor 40k, no game deserves that treatment :(