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ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/13 17:52:56
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
I don't really see how it being a transport is a plus for it, considering we're discussing an army where every unit can deep-strike. Running a squad up the board doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that regard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/13 18:18:39
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
Try again.
No, it's my opinion, so I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at.
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't really see how it being a transport is a plus for it, considering we're discussing an army where every unit can deep-strike. Running a squad up the board doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that regard.
Its not entirely a bad idea to carry some Scions in them, though I'd avoid 10 man squads. Deep strike tends to be more of a suicide mission meant to efficiently dispense firepower with ease, mechanised Scions are more reliable for grabbing objectives.
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
Try again.
No, it's my opinion, so I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at.
I rolled my eyes harder than I should have.
This little negative nancy thing you started with by whining incessantly in the rumour thread you have going is really getting old. You want to cry doom without any effort? Fine.
Just don't do it in a Tactics thread intended for more complex thinking and impartial from model quality, mmkay?
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/04/13 18:29:22
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't really see how it being a transport is a plus for it, considering we're discussing an army where every unit can deep-strike. Running a squad up the board doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that regard.
Its not entirely a bad idea to carry some Scions in them, though I'd avoid 10 man squads.
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
Try again.
No, it's my opinion, so I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at.
I rolled my eyes harder than I should have.
This little negative nancy thing you started with by whining incessantly in the rumour thread you have going is really getting old. You want to cry doom without any effort? Fine.
Just don't do it in a Tactics thread intended for more complex thinking and impartial from model quality, mmkay?
I don't believe you're the one in charge, bub. I gave my opinion on a tactical issue. Why in the name of whatever would you waste points (or money) on that P.O.S. when you could DS in, take a Chimera, take a Valk or walk! I'm sorry you don't like my opposite opinion.
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't really see how it being a transport is a plus for it, considering we're discussing an army where every unit can deep-strike. Running a squad up the board doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that regard.
Its not entirely a bad idea to carry some Scions in them, though I'd avoid 10 man squads.
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
Try again.
No, it's my opinion, so I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at.
I rolled my eyes harder than I should have.
This little negative nancy thing you started with by whining incessantly in the rumour thread you have going is really getting old. You want to cry doom without any effort? Fine.
Just don't do it in a Tactics thread intended for more complex thinking and impartial from model quality, mmkay?
I don't believe you're the one in charge, bub. I gave my opinion on a tactical issue. Why in the name of whatever would you waste points (or money) on that P.O.S. when you could DS in, take a Chimera, take a Valk or walk!
A) Its a Fast Vehicle that ignores difficult terrain (get behind a ruin and pop smoke). B) Due to aforementioned speed, it can move up quickly toward the enemy. C) It can take war gear that makes your scions scatter much less on DS. D) For its points you can stuff a metric fethload of AP3 shooting, turing your transport beacons into gunboats. E) They protect your scions for a shooting phase, which can be vital to keep your scoring units near full strength.
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't really see how it being a transport is a plus for it, considering we're discussing an army where every unit can deep-strike. Running a squad up the board doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that regard.
Its not entirely a bad idea to carry some Scions in them, though I'd avoid 10 man squads.
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
Try again.
No, it's my opinion, so I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at.
I rolled my eyes harder than I should have.
This little negative nancy thing you started with by whining incessantly in the rumour thread you have going is really getting old. You want to cry doom without any effort? Fine.
Just don't do it in a Tactics thread intended for more complex thinking and impartial from model quality, mmkay?
I don't believe you're the one in charge, bub. I gave my opinion on a tactical issue. Why in the name of whatever would you waste points (or money) on that P.O.S. when you could DS in, take a Chimera, take a Valk or walk!
A) Its a Fast Vehicle that ignores difficult terrain (get behind a ruin and pop smoke). B) Due to aforementioned speed, it can move up quickly toward the enemy. C) It can take war gear that makes your scions scatter much less on DS. D) For its points you can stuff a metric fethload of AP3 shooting, turing your transport beacons into gunboats. E) They protect your scions for a shooting phase, which can be vital to keep your scoring units near full strength.
A) And it's all built on a 11/10/10 glass frame. I really, really want to like it, but alas, I can't.
B) It doesn't give me more than all the Chimera I invested time and money into. Even if I had no emotional/financial investment, 12/10/10 is that much better to me.
C)It's wasting points on toys, more than on "boots and guns". I see the MT as an allied force at best, an AM elite choice at worst. I'd prefer to spend more points on more squads.
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't really see how it being a transport is a plus for it, considering we're discussing an army where every unit can deep-strike. Running a squad up the board doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that regard.
Its not entirely a bad idea to carry some Scions in them, though I'd avoid 10 man squads.
ansacs wrote: You got the quote wrong. I would actually say the Gatling and Hot Shot Volley Gun is a great loadout...
Well, it sure does have some potential with them being fast vehicles, but then again two of them would cost 180pts with no other upgrades. You know what I could get for 10 pts less? A Leman Russ Punisher with melta sponsons and hull-mounted lascannon. That's 2 MM shots, 1 lascannon shot and murdering amount of 20 S5 shots.
Love the idea of tacticool paratrooper army supported by light vehicles(that imho do not belong to 40k battlefields but whatever! ) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied HQ. The role will be similar as with Tauroxes, but at the price of mobility it'll get me a steamroller that can't be killed with the same guns that the enemy would use on my Scions unlike the Taurox. It can deal with tanks, transports and infantry and with the forced split fire tank order the two tanks in the squadron can shoot 2 different targets or make sure that one is extremely dead. I mean.. if twin-linked by an inquisitor or AM psyker, 40 s5 shots will even be able to hurt some flyers.
You're completely forgetting the Prime is a transport, and in being a fast vehicle and a good carrier of the Augur Array. So either way, its a good supporting element to Scions.
You're forgetting it's ugly and a waste of points.....
The former point here is subjective and treatable while the latter has absolutely no evidence.
Try again.
No, it's my opinion, so I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at.
I rolled my eyes harder than I should have.
This little negative nancy thing you started with by whining incessantly in the rumour thread you have going is really getting old. You want to cry doom without any effort? Fine.
Just don't do it in a Tactics thread intended for more complex thinking and impartial from model quality, mmkay?
I don't believe you're the one in charge, bub. I gave my opinion on a tactical issue. Why in the name of whatever would you waste points (or money) on that P.O.S. when you could DS in, take a Chimera, take a Valk or walk!
A) Its a Fast Vehicle that ignores difficult terrain (get behind a ruin and pop smoke). B) Due to aforementioned speed, it can move up quickly toward the enemy. C) It can take war gear that makes your scions scatter much less on DS. D) For its points you can stuff a metric fethload of AP3 shooting, turing your transport beacons into gunboats. E) They protect your scions for a shooting phase, which can be vital to keep your scoring units near full strength.
A) And it's all built on a 11/10/10 glass frame. I really, really want to like it, but alas, I can't.
B) It doesn't give me more than all the Chimera I invested time and money into. Even if I had no emotional/financial investment, 12/10/10 is that much better to me.
C)It's wasting points on toys, more than on "boots and guns". I see the MT as an allied force at best, an AM elite choice at worst. I'd prefer to spend more points on more squads.
The Venom is made of effectively tissue paper, has 33% less firepower against infantry than a TL Gatling+ HSVG Taurox Prime and is basically an auto-take for Dark Eldar given its firepower- YMMV, but I am playing IG and firepower and the ability to effectively deploy scoring units comes as a high priority.
The Chimera's front armour is useful and all but I don't even trust in AV12 - I always field them paired with Russes to give a wall of AV14 in front. In a C:MT exclusive armour, given you're not even fielding that many of them, you're more likely to be exposing your side armour, I'd bet.
I'm planning on running footguard with an allied army of Stormtroopers, making them scoring.
I can use my large amount of regular infantry and a few tanks to apply pressure from the front, then deepstrike the entire stormtrooper group together in a small area to take an objective. I know people have been balking at the cost but they're really not a lot more than vets by the time you consider the vets NEED a ride to get to an objective intact. The stormtroopers on the other hand can just drop in.
I'm planning on taking a "Platoon" with a plasma Command squad, a full squad with plasma, and possibly 2 half strength squads with melta. I'll probably end up playing around with it a bit, since I like the sound of a second full squad with Plasma to help knock a unit off an objective. Maybe use flamers, who knows.
The main IG force would just be a large platoon based force with a blob or 2 of fearless conscripts leading the charge and some tank support. I may run some sentinels, Pyskers, Enginseers, etc. I'm still putting together a battlescribe file I can use to play with lists, so I haven't had a chance to make anything really solid yet.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
The Taurox prime is actually pretty reasonably costed for the volly+gat and the BC+AC varients. With the addition of a forward fortification (void shield or wall) they become reasonably survivable and can start hurting the opponent from turn 1. The biggest thing though is that if you play MT without allies they are the only reasonable way to get units on the board so you can DS your scions. It is an option you might want to keep in mind as many TOs are using the BAO 2 detachments only rules.
Also if you think about an escalation based meta then cheap, mobile vehicles that can hurt revenants or handle infantry (bikes!) are not bad at their pts cost. Revenent titans will have a heck of a time making their pts back from killing Taurox Primes and 8 scions squads most of which can be anti tank if you make your primes anti infantry will almost assuredly kill a revenant. (in fact any 3 of your units could be geared up to almost assuredly kill a revenant).
I will probably be using allies to get my scions off the board. The new AM dex gives incredibly powerful infantry to start on the board (the new orders are very nasty on a LC or AC infantry). Or the new tank commanders could let you put down some LR commander, LR unit, and a couple chimera w/ units to bump your on board count to 6 units for relatively cheap and with no waste.
Another pretty interesting option is using GK/Inq allies where you can put some land raider crusaders down with henchmen inside. You can even attach termie armour psycannons to your DSing MTs which could be useful. MTs will certainly make the entire concept of crusader-DCA henchmen in landraiders better as you can cause some serious damage when your scions come in and the scions can deal with MCs in spades.
WMG: The last ever story of 40k will finally hit M42; only to reveal that Trazyn has completed his greatest heist; stuffing the entire universe into a hyper-pocket.
Thus ending the true and grandest conflict of 40k.
The contest of thievery between the Blood Ravens and Trazyn.
I'm making a Scion squad for an elite slot in my IG/AM army (I have no intrest in the MT book yet as an ally force)
I,m just wondering what would be better; 2 plasma or 2 meltas. Only a 5 men squad, the Tempestor got his basic gear (chainsword/HS lasgun) and while it's 10 pts difference in the end, would it be better to be able to act at 12-24 with a plasma shot or 'delay' this and go with a couple of 12 inch melta shots?
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I'm making a Scion squad for an elite slot in my IG/AM army (I have no intrest in the MT book yet as an ally force)
I,m just wondering what would be better; 2 plasma or 2 meltas. Only a 5 men squad, the Tempestor got his basic gear (chainsword/HS lasgun) and while it's 10 pts difference in the end, would it be better to be able to act at 12-24 with a plasma shot or 'delay' this and go with a couple of 12 inch melta shots?
Depends on your army.
Are you taking stuff like Vanquishers, Lascannon teams, Vendettas, etc.? You probably don't need a lot of melta.
Are you taking a ton of Vet Plasma Squads, Executioners, Pask Punishers, etc.? You probably don't need a lot of plasma.
Try proxying both for a couple of games and see how each works with your army. What works for me may not work for you. To be honest though, I think both could be useful, as long as you send them after the right targets to make the most of their abilities.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I'm making a Scion squad for an elite slot in my IG/AM army (I have no intrest in the MT book yet as an ally force)
I,m just wondering what would be better; 2 plasma or 2 meltas. Only a 5 men squad, the Tempestor got his basic gear (chainsword/HS lasgun) and while it's 10 pts difference in the end, would it be better to be able to act at 12-24 with a plasma shot or 'delay' this and go with a couple of 12 inch melta shots?
Depends on your army.
Are you taking stuff like Vanquishers, Lascannon teams, Vendettas, etc.? You probably don't need a lot of melta.
Are you taking a ton of Vet Plasma Squads, Executioners, Pask Punishers, etc.? You probably don't need a lot of plasma.
Try proxying both for a couple of games and see how each works with your army. What works for me may not work for you. To be honest though, I think both could be useful, as long as you send them after the right targets to make the most of their abilities.
Quoted for truth. I'd say Plasma for an all-comer list. But a Mr M stated, it really depends on the rest of the list and it's weaknesses or holes.
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
Funny thing...the new trend in comparing Taurox to Chimera 11 vs 12 in style "11 is paper, it will blow up by itself...12, yeeaaaah, adamantium hard, shake off nuclear missiles, thats AV for real men"...
Well, I pretty clearly remeber 12 wasnt so much win and half a time vanguard units got hit into side armor...so, yeah. 12 is more than 11, but Taurox (especially prime) has its uses because of fast, bigger firepower and three access points.
Being optimistic´s worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. It´s bloody evil.
- Fiddler
With the addition of monster and tank hunter orders the plasma saw a huge increase in effectiveness against tanks and MC, while the melta see's very little increase. However if you see a lot of parking lots the melta could be brutal with the addition of a split fire order. Without orders it is entirely a meta dependent question but if you don't take an augury for accurate DS then the melta has a good chance to scatter out of metla range whereas the plasma has a 12" range for double tap.
ansacs wrote: With the addition of monster and tank hunter orders the plasma saw a huge increase in effectiveness against tanks and MC, while the melta see's very little increase. However if you see a lot of parking lots the melta could be brutal with the addition of a split fire order. Without orders it is entirely a meta dependent question but if you don't take an augury for accurate DS then the melta has a good chance to scatter out of metla range whereas the plasma has a 12" range for double tap.
This is a good point, I had completely forgotten about the new orders a Stormtrooper command squad or even a CCS/PCS can open up. That "Direct Firestorm Sanctioned" order makes them twinlinked. That alone makes a 4 plasma strong Stormtrooper command squad super nasty, if a bit expensive.
As for IG orders being used on them, it's probably not likely unless you're keen on kicking your command squads out of the back of a valkyrie or ordering from a Chimera, but it's definitely a handy ability to keep in mind.
Also, something I always see people forget. Stormtroopers have krak grenades. You can throw one at short range. If you're deepstriking a melta squad in to kill a tank, you may as well chuck a krak grenade as well just to give yourself a little bit of extra killiness in case the meltas whiff. You're already paying for them after all, may as well use them. I've had a few times where I got the only two cross eyed stormtroopers in the academy using the melta guns and yet somehow the Sarge would casually chuck a krak grenade to finish the job for them.
And a final question I had, has anyone found a particularly good role for hotshot volley guns? They're cool and all, but I can't really think of a reason to take one when the regular troopers can just FRFSRF and get just as many shots.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/14 01:33:57
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MrMoustaffa wrote: As for IG orders being used on them, it's probably not likely unless you're keen on kicking your command squads out of the back of a valkyrie or ordering from a Chimera, but it's definitely a handy ability to keep in mind.
You can only take AM orders if you take them as elites in the AM codex. I don't really like them taken that way, scoring is just too large of a bonus to lose.
The scion prime also gains orders in the AM codex. This means you can drop a scion command squad and a unit of 10 scions and put monster hunter, split fire, tank hunter, or ignore cover on them.
In the MT dex the preferred enemy order is also really great, reroll 1's is not much different than a reroll when you hit on 3's and getting reroll 1's to wounds can give an edge.
In the MT dex the preferred enemy order is also really great, reroll 1's is not much different than a reroll when you hit on 3's and getting reroll 1's to wounds can give an edge.
I found a use for that order with 4 melta/plasmas on the scion command squad, it's like an additional layer of safety netting.
WMG: The last ever story of 40k will finally hit M42; only to reveal that Trazyn has completed his greatest heist; stuffing the entire universe into a hyper-pocket.
Thus ending the true and grandest conflict of 40k.
The contest of thievery between the Blood Ravens and Trazyn.
Personally I'm liking the airborne formation from this codex, 4 Valkyries that can split fire when they unload there cargo is insanely good, especially with lascannon and rocket pod build. however personally I think a mechanized list out of this book would not be bad either, spamming lots of cheap transports with a lot of firepower resembles very much a Dark Eldar list. Just have to play smart and utilize cover along with taking things like a Void Shield or an Aegis Defense Line for cover.
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
gmaleron wrote: Personally I'm liking the airborne formation from this codex, 4 Valkyries that can split fire when they unload there cargo is insanely good, especially with lascannon and rocket pod build. however personally I think a mechanized list out of this book would not be bad either, spamming lots of cheap transports with a lot of firepower resembles very much a Dark Eldar list. Just have to play smart and utilize cover along with taking things like a Void Shield or an Aegis Defense Line for cover.
The Valkyries don't get split fire the squad disembarking does.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Also, the valkyries/vendettas can't take augur array as first thought, so can't do pin-point grav-chute insertion.
The Scions do get to reroll their scatter when using grav chutes though so that's a 55% chance of a hit which is better than nothing. Also as they have Move Through Cover if they do scatter they automatically pass the dangerous terrain checks that result from it.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Also, the valkyries/vendettas can't take augur array as first thought, so can't do pin-point grav-chute insertion.
The Scions do get to reroll their scatter when using grav chutes though so that's a 55% chance of a hit which is better than nothing. Also as they have Move Through Cover if they do scatter they automatically pass the dangerous terrain checks that result from it.
Where is that written? I'm talking here about the eltie choice scions, ot the troops choice ones...did I miss it in the AM codex?
How good would you all think the Jeep-Assault formation would be? Kitting the jeeps (because lets face it, Prime's are going to either be using Trukk wheels or half tracks) with gatlings or stock to deal with hordes seems to be the most logical solution, considering how brutal scions are against most other things.
Is it any good, because I think the Prime can shine to optimal (ohohohohohhohohoho) levels with a bit of TLC.
WMG: The last ever story of 40k will finally hit M42; only to reveal that Trazyn has completed his greatest heist; stuffing the entire universe into a hyper-pocket.
Thus ending the true and grandest conflict of 40k.
The contest of thievery between the Blood Ravens and Trazyn.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Also, the valkyries/vendettas can't take augur array as first thought, so can't do pin-point grav-chute insertion.
The Scions do get to reroll their scatter when using grav chutes though so that's a 55% chance of a hit which is better than nothing. Also as they have Move Through Cover if they do scatter they automatically pass the dangerous terrain checks that result from it.
Where is that written? I'm talking here about the eltie choice scions, ot the troops choice ones...did I miss it in the AM codex?
Sorry we were talking about the Airborne Formation.
) but I'd rather get some cheap troop unit to hold home objective while putting 2 punisher squadron with tank commander as the allied 
Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
