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Just a side note...I do not have my book handy but I believe it was ruled that any movement tricks revolved around spinning models no longer applies...I will have to check...but I think it reads like no part of the model may end up farther than the full movement distance...i.e. no spinning barges, DE raiders, etc...I will try to get a page number later this eve...Thanks as always for the awesome bat reps JY!!!!

Battle report completed (on p.1).





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Widowsbane wrote:
Just a side note...I do not have my book handy but I believe it was ruled that any movement tricks revolved around spinning models no longer applies...I will have to check...but I think it reads like no part of the model may end up farther than the full movement distance...i.e. no spinning barges, DE raiders, etc...I will try to get a page number later this eve...Thanks as always for the awesome bat reps JY!!!!

Cool. Let me know what you find out.

Necron flyer spam as strong as ever, along with buffed vehicles

I forsee Necrons and Eldar at the top of the meta

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Looking to be a great game!
Cheers for the shout-out btw, although the name "Mr Genius" makes me sound more arrogant than my username already does... :/

I'm backing the crons here.

But I like the nickname, Mr Genius.

That wasn't even a game really.

Has anyone seen the pics of the new ork mek guns? The traktor canons are the best AA in the game lol. I wouldn't make any predictions on meta until that book drops. Ork artillery looks silly good. 5 pieces per unit now lol. 30 t7 wounds anyone?

I hope that books really shakes things up like it looks to.

I, for one, wonder why Jim has polls for his batreps when he almost always wins.

Regardless, Tau gunlines and Riptide spam are fairly well hosed in this edition, and Necrons are waaaay back at or near the top.

I see people saying no double CAD, and yes Primary + Ally, but shouldn't double CAD be an acceptable alternative for people not wanting to have to stick in allies to make their armies work?

Good batrep, nice to see one of the old SAFH getting its beans lol.

Does anyone fail more Nova charge rolls than Spam Adams?

@ jy2

How would you play your Bargelord differently if you were to go back and replay the game? I was really disappointed it got nuked even though you still won? How do you think it'll fire versus Wave Serpent spam - take the saves on the Overlord ?

How would you go about optimizing the Tau army list ?

I like the 2 detachment rule... That could be:
2 Combined Arms Detachments
1 Combined Arms Detachment and 1 Ally Detachment
1 Combined Arms Detachment and 1 Formation

Necrons will be very strong if we can get 2 Combined Arms Detachments at 1850.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Necron flyer spam as strong as ever, along with buffed vehicles

I forsee Necrons and Eldar at the top of the meta

Good news for you.

Just got in a game at Frontline Gaming with my new Grey Knights mech-spam army against Lysander marines (Sentinels of Terra) + 3 Imperial Knights.

Look out for it coming soon from Frontline Gaming.

 Red Corsair wrote:
That wasn't even a game really.

Has anyone seen the pics of the new ork mek guns? The traktor canons are the best AA in the game lol. I wouldn't make any predictions on meta until that book drops. Ork artillery looks silly good. 5 pieces per unit now lol. 30 t7 wounds anyone?

I hope that books really shakes things up like it looks to.

Ironically, Adam's same army (well, almost the same) gave me so much trouble back in 6th.

Haven't seen the new ork stuff yet, but I can't wait! I've got about 2K of orks that I haven't used in a while. Looking forwards to running them again.

slaede wrote:
I, for one, wonder why Jim has polls for his batreps when he almost always wins.

Regardless, Tau gunlines and Riptide spam are fairly well hosed in this edition, and Necrons are waaaay back at or near the top.

Lol. Sometimes the polls are obvious, especially when I run my stronger armies. Other times, it makes it more interesting when I run my more "underdog" armies. But yeah, vote for me and you'd be right much of the time.

As far as Tau goes, they've become like the Grey Knights between 5th and 6th. GK's were still decent in 6th, but they were no where near as dominating as they were back in 5th. The same just happened to Tau in this edition.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I see people saying no double CAD, and yes Primary + Ally, but shouldn't double CAD be an acceptable alternative for people not wanting to have to stick in allies to make their armies work?

Good batrep, nice to see one of the old SAFH getting its beans lol.

It'll depend on the tournament. Some will allow, but it's looking like the major ones probably won't, most likely to prevent matchups/blow-outs like this.

 Eldarain wrote:
Does anyone fail more Nova charge rolls than Spam Adams?

IMO, his failed Novas are actually statistically average. With 3 burstides, he will average 1 failed Nova a turn. But in my experiences against Spam Adam, he is usually more extreme. I've played against him in games where his riptides did 10+ Wounds to themselves from failed Novas and overheats. Then again, I've also played against him in games where he only got 2-3 failed novas a game.

Wow, this was brutal!!! A very eye opening read for me.

Absolutely love your bat reps and tactics posts, jy2- keep it up!

 Dozer Blades wrote:
@ jy2

How would you play your Bargelord differently if you were to go back and replay the game? I was really disappointed it got nuked even though you still won? How do you think it'll fire versus Wave Serpent spam - take the saves on the Overlord ?

How would you go about optimizing the Tau army list ?

I would have played him exactly the same....only I would have allocated some of the shots to my Overlord instead. If I had done this, he most likely would have survived. He is a fire magnet and was meant to draw the enemy fire, thus allowing the rest of my army to close in unmolested. The difference between him and my wraithstar is that he can survive small-arms fire whereas small-arms fire would kill my wraithstar. That is why he is such a great fire magnet.


If I was running pure Tau, I would probably go something like this (assuming 1850 and with Forgeworld):


Commander - PEN, MSS, Iridium, VRT - 150

Riptide - HBC, TL-Fusions, VT, EWO - 205
Riptide - Ion, TL-Fusions, EWO - 190

6x FW - Devilfish w/Disruption Pods - 149
6x FW - Devilfish w/Disruption Pods - 149
10x Kroots

Tetra (Forgot the exact price, but I think it is around 40)
Tetra
Tetra

Hammerhead - Submunitions, Disruption Pods - 145

Bastion

Tau Formation:

Riptide - HBC, TL-Fusions, VT, EWO - 205

3x Broadsides - Rail Rifles, 1x Target Lock - 200
3x Broadsides - HYMP, 1x Target Lock - 200





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I like the 2 detachment rule... That could be:
2 Combined Arms Detachments
1 Combined Arms Detachment and 1 Ally Detachment
1 Combined Arms Detachment and 1 Formation

Necrons will be very strong if we can get 2 Combined Arms Detachments at 1850.

It is really strong, especially for Necrons. When it comes to dual-CAD's, Necrons have an advantage because they've got arguably some of the most efficient units in the game.

 RiTides wrote:
Wow, this was brutal!!! A very eye opening read for me.

Absolutely love your bat reps and tactics posts, jy2- keep it up!

Thanks!

Yeah, I am hoping that this report will be an eye-opener for many people, especially the TO's. Some armies will be downright nasty if you go with dual-CAD armies. You are definitely going to have these types of games (huge blowouts) in tournament play and there WILL be people who will NOT have a good experience because of it. Just a heads-up from me.

Ugh, I knew double cad was dirty but I didnt actually read your list yet.

The king of battle reports still reigns supremely

Great report as usual!

What would you say, how would a similar Dark Harvest list have worked? Judging just from my experience, Kulakh on a CCB is just plain nasty and he eats Riptides for breakfast - fly over one, kill it with a single strike due to ID, charge the other, kill it with ID.

The list would need some adjustments as Immortals aren't scoring, but overall, it'd be doable.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The king of battle reports still reigns supremely

Great report as usual!

What would you say, how would a similar Dark Harvest list have worked? Judging just from my experience, Kulakh on a CCB is just plain nasty and he eats Riptides for breakfast - fly over one, kill it with a single strike due to ID, charge the other, kill it with ID.

The list would need some adjustments as Immortals aren't scoring, but overall, it'd be doable.

How do you get Kulakh on a CCB with the FAQ'd changes to the CCB in the Necron Codex that specifies . . .



It seems to me that you are only allowed to put a Necron Overlord in there. Am I missing something?

 Sigvatr wrote:
The king of battle reports still reigns supremely

Great report as usual!

What would you say, how would a similar Dark Harvest list have worked? Judging just from my experience, Kulakh on a CCB is just plain nasty and he eats Riptides for breakfast - fly over one, kill it with a single strike due to ID, charge the other, kill it with ID.

The list would need some adjustments as Immortals aren't scoring, but overall, it'd be doable.

Thanks.

While Kulakh truly is a "giant-killer", you need to understand his limitations:

1. Need to take at least 2x10 units of warriors. Although that is not necessarily a bad thing, it will, however, cut down on the amount of TL-Tesla Destructor shooting you will have in your army, as well as other stuff (possibly the wraiths).

2. Kulakh on a barge will be less survivable. He is more offense and less defense. Lack of a ResOrb means that he is 2x less likely to get back up. Lack of Mindshackle Scarabs means that monstrous creatures in combat with him actually have a chance to kill him before he could even swing (though his rule with regards to the Weapon Skills might help out here).

3. Most importantly, he can't kill tanks. I don't recall that he has armourbane. Basically, warscythes are the most reliable way for necrons to open up heavy armour (unless they opt to take the Doom Scythe).

With that said, with the current RAW, I believe you can still take a Dark Harvest army as an ally to normal Necrons so just run them as allies instead. Just make sure to check with your TO if you are thinking about bringing this to a tournament.

col_impact wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The king of battle reports still reigns supremely

Great report as usual!

What would you say, how would a similar Dark Harvest list have worked? Judging just from my experience, Kulakh on a CCB is just plain nasty and he eats Riptides for breakfast - fly over one, kill it with a single strike due to ID, charge the other, kill it with ID.

The list would need some adjustments as Immortals aren't scoring, but overall, it'd be doable.

How do you get Kulakh on a CCB with the FAQ'd changes to the CCB in the Necron Codex that specifies . . .

Spoiler:

Page 52- Replace 'Transport Capacity: The Catacomb Command Barge can carry one independent character' with 'Rider: Necron Overlord (pg. 30).'

It seems to me that you are only allowed to put a Necron Overlord in there. Am I missing something?

Hmmmm....now that presents a dilemma.

RAI, I believe he should not be able to take a CCB as a dedicated transport.

RAW, he can still take a CCB and becomes its rider (according to the Chariot rules) as he is not explicitly excluded from the FAQ's.

HWIPI, I'd go with the RAI on this one. He is a named character after all.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Ugh, I knew double cad was dirty but I didnt actually read your list yet.

Well, it appears dirtier than it actually is because you've got a dirty GT-winning Necron player running it.

 jy2 wrote:

While Kulakh truly is a "giant-killer", you need to understand his limitations:

1. Need to take at least 2x10 units of warriors. Although that is not necessarily a bad thing, it will, however, cut down on the amount of TL-Tesla Destructor shooting you will have in your army, as well as other stuff (possibly the wraiths).

True, I forgot about the higher minimum which greatly increases his points. Other points are, of course, very good as well.

RAI, I believe he should not be able to take a CCB as a dedicated transport.

RAW, he can still take a CCB and becomes its rider (according to the Chariot rules).

Thinking the same here, as IA12 STILL has not gotten an update yet (which is insultingly lazy) and it says that the CCB can be taken as a dedicated transport while at the same time referencing the CCB.

jy2,

I listened to the latest Frontline Podcast where you guys brought up the subject of a CCB Lord joining a unit.

In your pre-match that tested out allowing a CCB Lord to join a unit, you misplayed the scenario by allowing the CCB Lord to LOS his wounds to the unit of wraiths, which is not allowed by the recent changes to the 7th edition LOS rules.

Reflecting on that error, do you still think that a CCB Lord joining a unit is OP? If so why? Curious as to your perspective, since it seems that losing LOS is a huge nerf to the power of the CCB Lord joining a unit.

I hope you'll do another batrep real soon with barge lord again. What wargear do you take ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HIWPI Bargelord cannot join units.

 jy2 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Necron flyer spam as strong as ever, along with buffed vehicles

I forsee Necrons and Eldar at the top of the meta

Good news for you.

Just got in a game at Frontline Gaming with my new Grey Knights mech-spam army against Lysander marines (Sentinels of Terra) + 3 Imperial Knights.

Look out for it coming soon from Frontline Gaming.

Huzzah! How did it go?

Well, just as predicted, it was a massacre.

I've had the same experience, and until We start seeing a lot more Anti-Tank, Necrons are really going to man-handle a lot of armies.

Does bring a slight smile to my face when I see such an overpowered army in one addition come crashing back down to reality in the next. I didn’t expect such a one sided result but was expecting to see you doing clean up by turn 5. Silly me. Can’t wait to see what TO’s rule on CADs as I can see it going either way.

col_impact wrote:
jy2,

I listened to the latest Frontline Podcast where you guys brought up the subject of a CCB Lord joining a unit.

In your pre-match that tested out allowing a CCB Lord to join a unit, you misplayed the scenario by allowing the CCB Lord to LOS his wounds to the unit of wraiths, which is not allowed by the recent changes to the 7th edition LOS rules.

Reflecting on that error, do you still think that a CCB Lord joining a unit is OP? If so why? Curious as to your perspective, since it seems that losing LOS is a huge nerf to the power of the CCB Lord joining a unit.

Yeah, I actually kind of played it wrong.

I think that he can still do LOS, but only if the shots were allocated to the Overlord instead of to the barge. In that particular game, I actually forgot that you could allocate to the rider as well.

So assuming the barge is the closest model to the unit firing, if I allocate the shots to the barge, then it would be resolved against AV and there would be no LOS. However, if I had resolved it against the Rider, then it would be wounding on majority Toughness and he could LOS if he wanted. That's how I think it should have been played, though I don't have my BRB with me to look up the rules.

Regardless, with the ability to allocate the shots to both the barge and to the Overlord himself, he is still very survivable. In essence, by him joining the wraiths, it essentially protects them from small-arms fire. And once they get into combat, that unit of wraiths can do a lot of damage to a parking lot army (or any army that normally likes to castle up). Wraithwing was tough, but their vulnerability to small-arms fire basically kept them in check. But now with the bargelord joining the unit, they are going to be as ridiculous as the seer council. Legal or not, that mechanism (AV13 vehicle tanking for a fast assault unit) is just as broken as a re-rollable 2+ in that it just makes the experience unenjoyable for the person who has to play against it. It's going to be the Toolbox Commander joining a riptide all over again. I really hope that it doesn't go that way and I for one will not be playing it that way (unless GW FAQ's it or the general consensus (i.e. the tournaments) rules it that way).





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I hope you'll do another batrep real soon with barge lord again. What wargear do you take ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HIWPI Bargelord cannot join units.

Necron Overlord - 2+/3++, Mindshackle Scarabs, Phylactery, ResOrb, Warscythe
Catacomb Command Barge

Basically, he's a 300-lb monstrosity.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Necron flyer spam as strong as ever, along with buffed vehicles

I forsee Necrons and Eldar at the top of the meta

Good news for you.

Just got in a game at Frontline Gaming with my new Grey Knights mech-spam army against Lysander marines (Sentinels of Terra) + 3 Imperial Knights.

Look out for it coming soon from Frontline Gaming.

Huzzah! How did it go?

Very interesting. It was the very first time I ever went up against Imperial Knights....and I start off by facing 3 of them with mainly S6 psyback shooting. Lol. At least I did have 2 flyers, though he (or rather, I) managed to kill 1.

Guess you're just going to have to wait for the videorep to come out to find out what happens.

 Sasori wrote:
Well, just as predicted, it was a massacre.

I've had the same experience, and until We start seeing a lot more Anti-Tank, Necrons are really going to man-handle a lot of armies.

Yeah, they were already doing that last edition and they continue to do so now. Necrons are like fine wine. They get better with age. They were already very good back in 5th. In 6th, they got even better. Now in 7th, they're even better! Gasp! It's good to be a Necron player in the modern era.

 Panzer1944 wrote:
Does bring a slight smile to my face when I see such an overpowered army in one addition come crashing back down to reality in the next. I didn’t expect such a one sided result but was expecting to see you doing clean up by turn 5. Silly me. Can’t wait to see what TO’s rule on CADs as I can see it going either way.

It's bound to happen. With a new edition change, sometimes, the great armies get worse (for example, Tau from 6th to 7th, GK's, Space Wolves, Orks and IG from 5th to 6th). Other times, they get even better (Eldar, Necrons, Marine-armies).

The LVO/BAO are going to rule against dual-CAD's. Instead, they are going with 1 Primary CAD + 1Secondary (either allies or a formation). A lot of the tournaments are going to follow suit so you won't find too many tournaments going dual-CAD's.

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Looking to be a great game!
Cheers for the shout-out btw, although the name "Mr Genius" makes me sound more arrogant than my username already does... :/

I'm backing the crons here.

But I like the nickname, Mr Genius.

Haha whatever pleases you, almighty Jy2

Although the Creed reference does kinda go missing


Anyway, fantastic game for the crons.

As I suspected (and saw in my game), crons are pretty damn powerful this edition.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they're only below daemons and eldar, and not by much.

I love to see Tau getting p0wned by the master of disaster !!

I've never got any production out of a HBC-tide. The gun almost requires you to Nova every turn and even then only glances AV12 on a 6 and the gun tries to kill you every round. It does well against infantry but so does a S8 ap2 plate.

I have the same 3 level tower I use for terrain. I had no idea they made a 2 level tower and putting the two of them together makes a great LOS blocking piece of terrain. I'm going to have to get that 2 level tower if I can find it.

I don't have my codex with me, but I thought a Res Orb worked on a model who lost its last wound. It appears you lost the Command Barge and utilized the Res Orb on it at the bottom of turn 1 . Am I misremembering the rule or miss an FAQ?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found the rule in the rulebook. Wow. That is quite a significant change.

Can you LOS wounds from bolters onto the barge making the shots useless?