Looted wagons dlc, thanks EA!

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**Orock**

loki old fart wrote:
Orock wrote:
n0t_u wrote:
Datasheets in WD; giving people a reason to actually buy WD.

That's exactly the problem. If that's the only reason you are buying that white dwarf, because you don't think the rest of it is enough value to justify the 4 dollar price tag (which I definatley don't, since its garbage compared to its glory days) then your codex has now essentially become 49.50+4.00+whatever else they omitted for sales later even if its already set in stone at the office. Its no different than day one DLC video game companies cheat you with when it could have been on the damn disc when you got it. We aren't talking about content thought of years later, this is a blatant cash grab.
So don't buy it. Wait a couple of days, it'll be all over the net.

That's the thing that makes this even worse. GW has to know these dataslates are gotten by 90 precent of the people illegally because they either think its stupid to pay for, or don't want to pay for them. So they feel that the 1 in 10 that do buy it legally, if even that high, is enough profit to justify making the customers who think this kind of thing should be in the codex for free, and not be a cash grab, angry.

Its like selling a printer, and giving them a cartridge for every ink but blue. Sure you can do everything in black and white, but the option for color is there for a reason. So now you have to buy blue. And yeah sure, models aren't replaced as often as ink is (mostly new better looking models replace old ones) but taking every cheap shot at customers like this that they possibly can just loses them any good will.

**Sigvatr**

Vote with your wallet, that's it. Every single WD that gets sold is the equivalent to saying "Good, I want more of that please!". If you don't want to buy it, there may certainly be other means to do so.

**Archon_Zarbyrn**

While I not a fan of DLC practices many companies in the video game industry have been doing I don't feel GW giving us an extra incentive to actually buy the White Dwarf is so bad. For a long time people been asking for content in the White Dwarf magazine and now we get something new every week including early access to rules for units etc. Though I hope they don't make the same mistake they did with the Sisters 5th update.

**Psienesis**

Orock wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Considering the cost of Warhammer in general as a hobby, didnt think 4 bucks would be that much of a big deal

4 dollar starbucks drinks aren't a big deal. 300 of them a year is. Nickel and diming you for something you should be getting with your purchase is something people before our generations would have never put up with. its an insult. Nickel and dime extra charges that you don't notice now a days are why people cant afford homes anymore. Look at what we pay for now that we dident used to.

TV. TV was with rabbit ears, and commercials paid the studios what they needed to produce and broadcast. Now we pay a company for the privelige of watching already paid for content.
Computers. They weren't commonplace where everyone had one, sometimes 2 or 3 as today. Constant upgrades and fixing.
Phones. The bills were a fraction of what they are now inflated for today, even with paying for long distance. Also planned obsolescence of things like the Iphone, where you simply HAVE to have a new one every 2 years.
Cars engineered to last 10 years or less, when they used to make them so well many classics are still driven today.

Nickel and diming like this has been for the last 25 years THE biggest profit for effort endeavors society has come up with yet.

Don't accept low quality products because something else you can buy later comes along and fixes that.

There are so many things factually wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

**Wilytank**

So....what does EA have to do with all this?

**Kangodo**

Wilytank wrote:
So....what does EA have to do with all this?

There was this big "Day One DLC" thing with EA.
Basically they are proud of how it worked, that you could buy the game for 60 dollar and could also buy DLC for it, making the total cost for the game around 80.
Here is the quote:

"The other key thing is selling digital content on the day of launch...When we sold Mass Effect 3 back in March, we saw a 40 percent attach rate that first week to DLC at GameStop in the United States. Not only are you selling a $60 game...you're selling $20 DLC, so the sale becomes $80," Moore said.

For the company it might be a smart idea.
But it also embodies everything people hate about EA.

Sigvatr wrote:
Vote with your wallet, that's it. Every single WD that gets sold is the equivalent to saying "Good, I want more of that please!". If you don't want to buy it, there may certainly be other means to do so.

The problem is that people have their Looted Wagons.
They voted with their money, they told GW they loved the model and the idea!
So they decided to cash in on some extra.

**Sigvatr**

Kangodo wrote:
]
The problem is that people have their Looted Wagons.
They voted with their money, they told GW they loved the model and the idea!
So they decided to cash in on some extra.

Looted Wagons don't have a mode (well, they used to iirc...back...in the past...) so for GW, it's not possible to see how many people actually play them. Furthermore, I don't see what's stopping a Looted Wagon player from obtaining the rules outside the WD.

Also: how could OP miss out on a "Thanks, Obama!" joke?

**Medium of Death**

Is the Ork Codex out yet?

**ClassicCarraway**

I have to say, it really seems that GW cannot win with some people.

For the last 2-3 years, people have griped (and rightfully so) how WD was nothing more than an advertisment with no real content, and pined for the days when WD actually had stuff like rules and scenarios.

Now GW has brought back special scenarios and unit rules to WD, and people now gripe that its a "moneygrab".

**Makumba**

I think there is a difference between having a scenario or extra rules for a sub faction in a WD , and having to buy a WD to use the main transport type for your army. It would be bad , if to use let say a chimera you would have to buy a WD. There wouldn't be enough WD for all people that play AM .

**ClassicCarraway**

Makumba wrote:
I think there is a difference between having a scenario or extra rules for a sub faction in a WD , and having to buy a WD to use the main transport type for your army. It would be bad , if to use let say a chimera you would have to buy a WD. There wouldn't be enough WD for all people that play AM .

I always thought trukks and battlewagons were the main transports for Orks. Could be worse, they could remove a vehicle from a codex that had a forgeworld model for it and force you to buy the extremely expensive IA book in order to continue using it....

**Klerych**

Makumba wrote:
I think there is a difference between having a scenario or extra rules for a sub faction in a WD , and having to buy a WD to use the main transport type for your army. It would be bad , if to use let say a chimera you would have to buy a WD. There wouldn't be enough WD for all people that play AM .

I think you're wrong. Wagons aren't really the 'main transport' nor are they among the most used units in Orks Codex thus comparing it to the only transport IG had for years is.. silly. Especially that it has no model. It's more like putting the Taurox in a dataslate. Some people care about it, some don't, whoever wants it has a chance to get it.

Overall I agree strongly with ClassicCarraway as he got it right. That's the biggest issue with Dakka nowadays. One begins to wonder why GW even bothers to occasionally do something right, seeing that the community will -always- find an excuse to bash it. People whined for years that WD had no meaningful content anymore and, as Carraway said, now it gets some and they instead whine about it actually having content? Sure, they could've folded it into the Codex, but they didn't. They also could've folded supplements' materials into the Codexes. But they didn't do that either. You don't like it - don't buy it or pirate it to show GW how despicable their practices are.

I, for one, am happy to see WD get some proper content.

**pretre**

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
The wagon isn't in the codex.
It is white dwarf exclusive, and will be available as digital download for $1-2.

It's not a cash grab by selling "incomplete" books.
Truth is that the book finished without the codex entry, because it did not have a model. Due to public opinion, it was brought back in a last minute decision about a month ago.You'll even note that there is a typo in the unit entry in this week's White Dwarf, where the unit entry was copy/pasted over the Gorkonaut entry.

There is no intention of making a looted-wagon conversion kit at this time, though it would be cool if it could then combo with Lemon Russ or Rhinos, etc, it simply is not intended.

People should be happy that they're heard, and the rules are going to be in white dwarf allowing for a more organic game with solutions to issues outside of 2+ years between codicies.

The reality is that not everyone in the internet-community will ever be happy.

**office_waaagh**

I don't understand what the problem is. People like looted wagons, so they released rules for looted wagons. How is this a bad thing? Would it be preferable if they had just eliminated the looted wagon altogether?

Given the new policy of keeping anything for which they don't produce a model out of the codices for legal reasons, this seems to be the best solution.

**Yonan**

office_waaagh wrote:
I don't understand what the problem is. People like looted wagons, so they released rules for looted wagons. How is this a bad thing? Would it be preferable if they had just eliminated the looted wagon altogether?

It's a bad thing because it's not in the codex which is released at the same time, which would have taken an additional page of the codex and been a much better product for the players by being like this.

Given the new policy of keeping anything for which they don't produce a model out of the codices for legal reasons, this seems to be the best solution.

Better for GW who gets to charge more money for something that should have been in the codex. bad for the players who are expected to pay more for it. A huge aspect of the hobby is kitbashing. There being no official model for it currently doesn't mean players can't create their own. It's a very anti-customer move in a long line of anti-customer moves.

**MWHistorian**

Next up, codex Rhino!

**MajorWesJanson**

MWHistorian wrote:
Next up, codex Rhino!

No, this is far more like "Codex Mycetic Spore"- rules for a unit without an official model that would be removed from the codex regardless.

And people bought it to use as a transport? I thought they bought it for the boomgun, if all the whining about no more boomgun (even though the killkannon has dropped to half price) is anything to go by.

**Makumba**

Klerych wrote:

I think you're wrong. Wagons aren't really the 'main transport' nor are they among the most used units in Orks Codex thus comparing it to the only transport IG had for years is.. silly. Especially that it has no model. It's more like putting the Taurox in a dataslate. Some people care about it, some don't, whoever wants it has a chance to get it.

Overall I agree strongly with ClassicCarraway as he got it right. That's the biggest issue with Dakka nowadays. One begins to wonder why GW even bothers to occasionally do something right, seeing that the community will -always- find an excuse to bash it. People whined for years that WD had no meaningful content anymore and, as Carraway said, now it gets some and they instead whine about it actually having content? Sure, they could've folded it into the Codex, but they didn't. They also could've folded supplements' materials into the Codexes. But they didn't do that either. You don't like it - don't buy it or pirate it to show GW how despicable their practices are.

I, for one, am happy to see WD get some proper content.

have you seen the things stats and cost ? If that ain't the main way to transport stuff around , then I don't know what is

**Yonan**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
No, this is far more like "Codex Mycetic Spore"- rules for a unit without an official model that would be removed from the codex regardless.

It being removed from the codex should *not* be a given. Modeling is a huge part of the hobby - inclusion of rules for models you can kitbash is a good thing for the players.

**Jidmah**

Makumba wrote:
Klerych wrote:

I think you're wrong. Wagons aren't really the 'main transport' nor are they among the most used units in Orks Codex thus comparing it to the only transport IG had for years is.. silly. Especially that it has no model. It's more like putting the Taurox in a dataslate. Some people care about it, some don't, whoever wants it has a chance to get it.

Overall I agree strongly with ClassicCarraway as he got it right. That's the biggest issue with Dakka nowadays. One begins to wonder why GW even bothers to occasionally do something right, seeing that the community will -always- find an excuse to bash it. People whined for years that WD had no meaningful content anymore and, as Carraway said, now it gets some and they instead whine about it actually having content? Sure, they could've folded it into the Codex, but they didn't. They also could've folded supplements' materials into the Codexes. But they didn't do that either. You don't like it - don't buy it or pirate it to show GW how despicable their practices are.

I, for one, am happy to see WD get some proper content.

have you seen the things stats and cost ? If that ain't the main way to transport stuff around , then I don't know what is

Battlewagon and Trukks?

It's still a good transport, a role it was pretty much useless at before.

**mutantrocker**

I would have much preferred to have the looted wagon rules in the codex but I'm not particularly pissed off about them being White Dwarf only and I'll probably pick up a copy (my first since the one with the dakkajet rules).
On balance, I'd have rather kept the overpriced boomgun instead of the cheaper killkanon (assuming its rules stay the same). The cheap deffrollas and rokkits might have encouraged me to spam them but I think there'll be too much competition for the heavy slots. Even if I'm running double FOC, I suspect I'll be going for several batteries of mekguns with either battlewagons or walkers taking up the rest of the slots. Of course, the new codex might change all that.
The ability to take them in squadrons and maybe front av12 would have been great but never mind.

**Yonan**

mutantrocker wrote:
I would have much preferred to have the looted wagon rules in the codex but I'm not particularly pissed off about them being White Dwarf only and I'll probably pick up a copy (my first since the one with the dakkajet rules).

Mission accomplished ; /

**WarOne**

It's a matter of economics at this point. I simply cannot keep up with their update schedule and what I want to buy. The worst is not knowing what I should buy because they are not done tossing all this stuff at us. Aside from a White Dwarf which I refuse to purchase (my only obvious irrational purchasing denial), everything requires thought about investing due to monetary prices being charged.

Once the dust settles on this release, I can then make an educated decision on what models I want to buy.

**knas ser**

Orock wrote:
Looted wagon datasheets guise, but since everyone just steals them from online, we are putting them in white dwarf now! Nobody will be able to figure out this scanner technology!

Seriously, EA and other bad game companies cram day one dlc down our throats now a days, claming that it allows them to make better products and work on it after the info is shipped off to be burnt to a disc, but everyone knows its just a pathetic cash grab. Now I am probably out of the loop on this, but couldn't this have EASILY been included in the actual book, instead of paying 45 dollars for the codex, then 4 dollars for 3 or 4 more options elsewhere? Also new mek and painboys confirmed.

I see the above as a complete over-reaction. White Dwarf always used to have miniature rules in it - it was one of the things that made it useful and interesting. The entirety of the new Eldar rules (when aspects first appeared and the Avatar was created) were introduced in a White Dwarf (#127 iirc) and we played with them from that White Dwarf for a long time. What are you suggesting? That GW shouldn't throw out new rules and extras as they go along? I think that would be a loss to the game.

Or that such thing should only be available as downloadable dataslates. IF GW have done this in White Dwarf rather than in digital form because of piracy (which is not known), then the correct people to blame would be pirates. You don't blame a company for trying to protect its property from people ripping it off, you blame the people provoking that response.

And DLC can be a good thing. It can mean more content becomes financially viable and so exists for those that want it.

**Polonius**

ClassicCarraway wrote:
I have to say, it really seems that GW cannot win with some people.

For the last 2-3 years, people have griped (and rightfully so) how WD was nothing more than an advertisment with no real content, and pined for the days when WD actually had stuff like rules and scenarios.

Now GW has brought back special scenarios and unit rules to WD, and people now gripe that its a "moneygrab".

It's a matter of perception and timing. Back when WD had gaming content regularly, which was 3rd to early 4th edition, it was fun to get a tweak to one of your units outside of the normal codex cycle. Or the new rules would fix a balance issue (crux terminatus saves, for example).

Separate wagon rules aren't either. It seems that they're separate because they want codexes to only have units with models (hence no medusa, collosus, or Sgt. Bastonne in the new AM/IG book), yet they want gamers to have access to rules for the models without buying a forgeworld IA book. That's actually a supportable decision, given how they've been pretty consistent in operating that way.

What I think rankles people is the idea that because of some design ideology, they have to pay more for content that could be free. GW used to publish rules like that in WD, and then post a .pdf of them after a month or so. Gave them a chance to make money, but kept the rules available.

**Yonan**

knas ser wrote:
What are you suggesting? That GW shouldn't throw out new rules and extras as they go along? I think that would be a loss to the game.

As they go along? Sure! The same fething day (basically) as the codex is released? Hell no. The unit was in the previous rulebook but they cut it from the new rulebook purely so they could sell it for an extra $4 at the same time the new codex is launched.

**Jidmah**

It's much more likely that they cut it from the codex because it didn't have a model and then realized from the huge outcry when the rumor surfaced that they had taken away something that people actually wanted while selling more models.

So someone called WD, they pulled an all-nighter to photshop a looted wagon page into the Gorkanaut layout and hurried it out the door while completely forgetting to both proofread and that they had promised to talk about weirdboyz in the last issue.

Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.

**knas ser**

Jidmah wrote:
It's much more likely that they cut it from the codex because it didn't have a model and then realized from the huge outcry when the rumor surfaced that they had taken away something that people actually wanted while selling more models.

So someone called WD, they pulled an all-nighter to photshop a looted wagon page into the Gorkanaut layout and hurried it out the door while completely forgetting to both proofread and that they had promised to talk about weirdboyz in the last issue.

Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.

Much as your sig still drives me crazy (

), I really agree with this. There's plenty of criticism of GW from me elsewhere on these boards. In this instance, I don't think it's reasonable to assume conspiracy on GW here. People have been complaining about lack of content in White Dwarf for ages. They add some and they're condemned. Sometimes you really can't win! (And I don't just mean when you're a CSM player.

)

**Yonan**

Removal of content from a codex to put it in white dwarf is not what people asking for more in white dwarf wanted I imagine. That is literally what happened - it was removed from the codex and then sold separately in white dwarf. Creation of new content to spice up armies or gameplay mid-cycle would be great.

Never assume stupidity when there's a proven track record of "malice".

**Jidmah**

Yeah, you can't just turn philosophical principles around.

Otherwise I'd have to assume that your only reason to post here is malice.