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It's extremely rough to kill it due to the terribly broken rules. A AV 13 vehicle with a 3++ is downright ridiculous.

Shooting it is a bad idea most of the time unless you can hit the rear armor. Even if you manage to hit it and possibly penetrate the armor, you face a 3++ and might very likely waste the shot. The problem? All other AV 13 vehicles are still moving forward.

Your best chances are melee, but that's another problem as due to its very high mobilty, the CCB can choose its targets not the other way around.

Precision shots with Haywire might work, but...well...is that even possible? Your best bet are high S/AP precision shots but as they are very rare...meh.

...and if it's taxi'ing a unit of Wraiths...good luck.

I played one today, and my imperial knight managed to cleave the overlord in two.

The guy I was playing wasn't experienced with necrons however. Is there any reason why fast str 10 walkers won't be the bane of this thing, or at least limit how your opponent plays it?

Edit:

A AV 13 vehicle with a 3++ is downright ridiculous.

Has it been FAQ'd that the whole barge has the 3++ now, or is that still in the YMDC stage?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

A AV 13 vehicle with a 3++ is downright ridiculous.

Has it been FAQ'd that the whole barge has the 3++ now, or is that still in the YMDC stage?

... if there had been a FAQ clarifying things, there would be no need for the YMDC thread.
The best we can hope for is they release one post Ork codex... but it's a slim hope at best.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
I played one today, and my imperial knight managed to cleave the overlord in two.

The guy I was playing wasn't experienced with necrons however. Is there any reason why fast str 10 walkers won't be the bane of this thing, or at least limit how your opponent plays it?

Edit:

A AV 13 vehicle with a 3++ is downright ridiculous.

Has it been FAQ'd that the whole barge has the 3++ now, or is that still in the YMDC stage?

It needs to be FAQ'd AWAY, not given. Right now, if you go by RAW, it has the 3++. Which is just stupid.

Ok, so there is nothing concrete yet then. Good to know, thanks.

And regarding my other question? Maulerfiends, Slaanesh soul grinders and Imperial knights, will they work as a counter? The I2 of the overlord means that you will at least get to strike first, and choosing who you target in cc removes a big advantage that the barge has vs shooting.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Ok, so there is nothing concrete yet then. Good to know, thanks.

And regarding my other question? Maulerfiends, Slaanesh soul grinders and Imperial knights, will they work as a counter? The I2 of the overlord means that you will at least get to strike first, and choosing who you target in cc removes a big advantage that the barge has vs shooting.

I'm wondering how Flyrants would fare against the Barge... just get in the rear Armor Arc and open fire. 10-11 hits, Wherever he allocates that he's taking a few wounds or Hullpoints. Not enough to finish it one on one, but a few Flyrants and I could see it getting put down. The whole "allocating" BS means that haywire is a no-go, and Tyranid MCs hate assaulting stuff with MSS. So, I say we Dakka it until it turns to dust!

Or charge it with an Imperial Knight.

 jifel wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Ok, so there is nothing concrete yet then. Good to know, thanks.

And regarding my other question? Maulerfiends, Slaanesh soul grinders and Imperial knights, will they work as a counter? The I2 of the overlord means that you will at least get to strike first, and choosing who you target in cc removes a big advantage that the barge has vs shooting.

I'm wondering how Flyrants would fare against the Barge... just get in the rear Armor Arc and open fire. 10-11 hits, Wherever he allocates that he's taking a few wounds or Hullpoints. Not enough to finish it one on one, but a few Flyrants and I could see it getting put down. The whole "allocating" BS means that haywire is a no-go, and Tyranid MCs hate assaulting stuff with MSS. So, I say we Dakka it until it turns to dust!

Or charge it with an Imperial Knight.

An Overlord with a weave is likely only to suffer a single wound from this.

Vindicare Assassin. Shield breaker to strip the invul, and then it's easy pickings.

-Matt

 Sasori wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Ok, so there is nothing concrete yet then. Good to know, thanks.

And regarding my other question? Maulerfiends, Slaanesh soul grinders and Imperial knights, will they work as a counter? The I2 of the overlord means that you will at least get to strike first, and choosing who you target in cc removes a big advantage that the barge has vs shooting.

I'm wondering how Flyrants would fare against the Barge... just get in the rear Armor Arc and open fire. 10-11 hits, Wherever he allocates that he's taking a few wounds or Hullpoints. Not enough to finish it one on one, but a few Flyrants and I could see it getting put down. The whole "allocating" BS means that haywire is a no-go, and Tyranid MCs hate assaulting stuff with MSS. So, I say we Dakka it until it turns to dust!

Or charge it with an Imperial Knight.

An Overlord with a weave is likely only to suffer a single wound from this.

One Flyrant alone wouldn't be enough yes.
Two Flyrants firing into the rear armor of a Barge. Assuming he allocates all to his Lord (which he likely won't) he will take 14.4 wounds, so fail 2 saves and almost dead. Once he has only one wound left he will have to be very conservative with where he assaults with said barge, as most Tyranid units will be able to sneak a wound in. The barge is very annoying to deal with with Nids. So far, I have not yet faced it but I would very much like to do so. My current line of thought is to either blob it down with gants (unlikely, it's pretty fast) or to shoot it in the rear armor until either Hull points or Wounds run out. Other options include throwing Psychic Lances at it, as Necrons have no psychic defense, and waiting for one lance to get through. Once the shield is down it will definitely be Dakka'd to death.

BA Vanguard Vets with mbs?

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Vindicare Assassin. Shield breaker to strip the invul, and then it's easy pickings.

-Matt

I don't believe this would work, as the wording is wounds in the GK codex, so you could just have it hit the vehicle, where no wounds would ever occur.

But the vindicare always gets to allocate wounds. They haven't re-FAQ'd it to ignore look-out sir, but If precision shots can hit the character I don't see why his special rule wouldn't.

 Leth wrote:
Yep, but that requires that you have two characters in the unit.

All Chaos infantry units have a squad leader character.

Also your HQ will still need to get a 5 or a 6 to put a hull point on and then get through the 3+ invul. Its always on front armor in the assault so unless its shield is down then its gonna be 13.

That is where the problem is.

P. Fist lord is glancing on a 4+.

Where is the CCB getting this 3+ invuln from? Phase-shifter? Honestly, why would I even care? Have fun spending the rest of the game killing one squad at 2 inflicted wounds on the charge and then 1 wound per turn after that.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Where is the CCB getting this 3+ invuln from?

Phase Shifter. RAW, it gives the "model" a 3++. Which means the entire CCB.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Have fun spending the rest of the game killing one squad at 2 inflicted wounds on the charge and then 1 wound per turn after that.

How are you only getting two wounds on the charge?
The CCB is capable of-
Movement phase: 3 S7 AP1 sweep attacks
Shooting phase: 2 S5 AP3 (gauss) / 2 to 6 S6 AP- (tesla) shots
Assault phase: D6 S7 AP- HoW attacks + D3 attacks (via MSS) + 4 S7 AP1 attacks
for a total of anywhere between 10 at minimum (assuming MSS test was passed) and 22 at maximum potential wounds inflicted on the turn it charges.
For a single model, that is a ridiculous amount of damage output.
... and you're saying it would only be capable of inflicting two wounds on the turn it charges?

 BlaxicanX wrote:


P. Fist lord is glancing on a 4+.

Where are you getting str 9 from?

Also, the lord will be hitting and killing 1-2 per combat, now that maybe bogged down but unless things go wrong you are not going to engage it on your terms, you will be engaging it on his.

Now that being said it is 300 points and so should be pretty durable, and as with all very expensive things it is a few dice rolls away from going kaputski.

 Sasori wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Vindicare Assassin. Shield breaker to strip the invul, and then it's easy pickings.

-Matt

I don't believe this would work, as the wording is wounds in the GK codex, so you could just have it hit the vehicle, where no wounds would ever occur.

Deadshot: Wounds caused by the Vindicare's shooting attacks are always allocated by the vindicare's controlling player.
Shield Breaker: When a wound from this round is allocated to a model, that model loses any invulnerable saves granted by items of wargear immediately, and for the rest of the battle. Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken.

Since the Barge players are claiming that both gain the invul save from the overlords wargear as it says "The model", then I'm claiming that a shield breaker takes it away from both also on the phase "that model".

S10 with ap 1/2 is the best answer, as it threatens to ID both the character and the chariot, leaving a "no good answer" situation.
Though its best if you get to ignore cover, so he won't just jink in (no effect on assault after all)


Doing a S10 hit in CC is even better, as you both get to allocate (to the overlord if he has no 3++, to the chariot if he does), and you do heavy damage. making MCs and walkers still a heavy threat to him. even a single smash attack is a legitimate threat.


Failing to acquire S10, you really got nothing except drowning it with high S low AP shots that threaten the barge so he turns it to the rider, and you'll need ALOT. a hell lot of melta shots COULD do the trick, but you need a HELL LOT, about 10 hits are required to make it so the 3++ overlord won't make it.
Plasma nets you far more hits, but will likely be allocated to the barge itself, meaning they will, at best, glance on 6s unless you hit the rear.


However, facing said over-equipped overlord in a chariot also means he drowned 300ish points into that model, and it STILL only have 3 attacks, meaning its highly vaulrable to tarpitting.
Though it's speed might make it hard to actually get there, even a small bunch of gaunts can lock him practically for the entire game.


Then you got gimmik strikes.

Templates, as stated, always hurt the rider. a smart player will directly hit the rider rather then face the extra hits from "no escape", but few templates can bring the numbers or
AP required to threaten the equipped overlord, and actually get there if the necron player is aware of it. it will work ONCE.

Sniper and other precision shots leave much to be wanted, but they have a shot.
If your snipers have ID weapons, or assured strikes, the better. a well-placed vindicare can create a zone of "dare you enter" around him with his auto-sniping 4d6 pen AP1 rounds. illic can threaten the rider itself pretty well.

SM got grav guns. surprisingly good VS the barge with "2 6s on the barge and its dead" and "wound on 2 no AS" on the rider. getting the required 10ish hits to drop the IC is within the realm of possibility, and as there is only one pool (grav hits) he cannot allocate it half way.
So a gravstar would take it down.

Hidden Power Fists seem to do the trick.

Templates seem like a bad choice, as I can 2+ them for ages.
But I'd be happy if they template my CCB instead of my swarms and Warrior-blobs.

Snipers are doing the job, but they also face the 2+/3++ problem and you can't get a high enough number of attacks.
Again: I'd rather have them shoot at the CCB than at my Crypteks.
Vindicare are strong, but we knew that

Grav's still need three 6's on the Barge, they cannot be immobilized.
But you could still take saves against those shots, so you would need lots and lots of Graviton.

Kangodo wrote:
Hidden Power Fists seem to do the trick.

This would depend on who had the power fist. If it is just a sergeant of a squad, then the lord could simply challenge couldn't he? He suffers no penalty to himself for doing so now that the challenge rules have changed.
The Sergeant would either not get to attack or stand a very good chance of being cut don before he gets to swing.

If you have more than 1 fist in a squad, or if the guy with the PF in't a character, then it might work (still not greatly so considering the 3++ save and multiple wounds/HP of the target.

That's why they call it HIDDEN power fists you cannot single them out.
And they got buffed now that characters don't have Precision Shots and Strikes!

Let's break it down. With average rolling:

 skoffs wrote:

The CCB is capable of-
Movement phase: 3 S7 AP1 sweep attacks

2 wounds.

Shooting phase: 2 S5 AP3 (gauss) / 2 to 6 S6 AP- (tesla) shots

1 wound, or zero wounds.

Assault phase: D6 S7 AP- HoW attacks + D3 attacks (via MSS) + 4 S7 AP1 attacks

1 wound, MSS wounds depend on what gets shackled, 2 wounds.

With average rolls, that's 6 wounds on MEQ on the charge, and then it's 1 wound per turn after that.

You say it's one model, but that one model is costing around ~255 points.

To do 1 wound per turn post-charge.

Say what you want about the CCM and its durability, but close combat against any unit that's not going to break and has more than ten models in it is not where it wants to be.

 Leth wrote:
Where are you getting str 9 from?

Also, the lord will be hitting and killing 1-2 per combat, now that maybe bogged down but unless things go wrong you are not going to engage it on your terms, you will be engaging it on his.

Now that being said it is 300 points and so should be pretty durable, and as with all very expensive things it is a few dice rolls away from going kaputski.

Furious charge.

Well, the thing about the barge is... it's damage output is pretty gak, all things considered. A single tesla cannon or guass cannon isn't all that scary- in fact in most cases I would just ignore it, the same way I ignore battle-cannon leman russes. The bulk of its damage is done up close with its sweep attacks, but even then it's only three hits, and if you're moving faster than combat speed (to get away) you're hitting on a 4+. Really not that scary.

So that just leaves assault, in which case it's now fighting on your terms.

The scariest thing about the CCB is that it scores. With it's speed and durability, I think that's where it'll be the most effective. Its' deeps aren't very efficient point-for-point though.

Oddly enough Tyranids are decently good at killing Overlord/Chariots via CQC or Shooting (Every Heavy Venom Cannon hits the Chariot, 4+ to glance, 2+ after the first Pen and it can actually oneshot it since it's Open-Topped)

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Vindicare Assassin. Shield breaker to strip the invul, and then it's easy pickings.

-Matt

I don't believe this would work, as the wording is wounds in the GK codex, so you could just have it hit the vehicle, where no wounds would ever occur.

Deadshot: Wounds caused by the Vindicare's shooting attacks are always allocated by the vindicare's controlling player.
Shield Breaker: When a wound from this round is allocated to a model, that model loses any invulnerable saves granted by items of wargear immediately, and for the rest of the battle. Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken.

Since the Barge players are claiming that both gain the invul save from the overlords wargear as it says "The model", then I'm claiming that a shield breaker takes it away from both also on the phase "that model".

The issue is the wording for "Wounds" I can simply have your shot hit the barge, and no wounds will be caused, therefore you can't benefit from shieldbreaker or Deadshot.

Except that you don't get to allocate. The Vindicaire Assassin does. And he'll pick the overlord.

This may need an FAQ. Would allocation is by model as given in the shooting examples. Unless there is specification that allocation wounds is also by profile?

The problem is the chariot (not just the CCB) is one model but two profiles. And this is probably a new situation for Vindicares ability. Like how they needed a FAQ for dead shot vs look out sir, this would need one too.

Well, the combo given by Overlord mounted in a chariot is a strange unit.

The shooting of this unit is crap.

Charging a full Tactical squad? No, it will be stuck and a hidden power fist may hurt (but this would be a candidate for a challenge).
What should also be avoided are MC's and higher strength cc units.
However, in cc (or by sweeping attacks) its absolutely dangerous vs. tanks.

Therefore, I find that Overlord w/ CCB deserves less attention here.

Fair enough.
Yeah, there's some things it does well, but chances are there are other units available to Necron players that can accomplish the same task (possibly at a cheaper price, too).
I think it was just the durability people got excited about, eg. "You mean I can negate shots that can kill my Overlord by transferring them to the barge, AND I can soak up shots that could kill my barge by getting my Overlord to take the hit instead?"

Corollax wrote:
Except that you don't get to allocate. The Vindicaire Assassin does. And he'll pick the overlord.

Where does it say the Vindicare allocates the hits?

In his rules, he spesifically has a rule saying the owning player allocates any shot he makes.