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Chosen have their uses and you can do some pretty cool things with them.

Now units like Possesed, Mutilators? those are just ugh.

Still haven't figured out a use for those guys at all.

I've never found a way to justify Chosen. if you want to take any special gear, you're usually looking at a marine body worth 30+ points. A terminator with a power weapon and twin linked bolter costs roughly the same. Chosen don't even have a good delivery system. How does this work?
But enough negativity. One unit I hear bashed a lot are Raptors. I've had "fun" running the 15 man squads with an ax wielding jump lord in attendance. They've often died embarrassing deaths... But what has worked pretty well is a 5 man with two meltas and a combi on the chamion. 125 for a deepstriking, landraider hunting pack. I'm always a fan of units that can reach out and cause damage where I need it.

zoat wrote:What you might miss is that most "this unit sucks" comments on the internet should be read in the context of competitive play. This means you assume players of equal (high) skill that are building lists with unlimited resources and have consistent winning as the primary concern.

I'd actually take the other side of that, sort of. "This unit sucks" is indeed about winning, but it's not a sign of a good player wanting to maximize their army. It's a sign of a bad player who can't figure out how that unit works. Good players can make anything work well enough. Certainly well enough to sneak any weaknesses in underneath the coarse nature of 40k's random element.

When someone says "It is bad" it's much more likely they're saying "I am bad", or at least, not good enough to see how something could be useful.

And that really, really applies to CSM. CSM is not, in any way, a bad army. It is, however, and army that is more difficult to use than most, as it doesn't do gunlining well at all, and it can't run monstrous creature or flier spam. It's not a straightforward win button, and people who rely on that as a crutch will naturally look at the crutchless nature of CSM and assume that they're just bad.

Furthermore, there are plenty of CSM units that are really rather tricky to use right. The reason for this is because there's a bunch of them that have a giant pile of mandatory upgrades. For example, possessed aren't too expensive when you consider the vast pile of stuff you get with them, likewise 1ksons, and, sheesh, most of the codex.

The tricky part is that if you can't make use of those mandatory upgrades, then those points are just going to waste, but that's not the unit's fault, that's yours. Many CSM units have access to genuine versatility and a huge amount of killing power, it's just that you have to make use of everything that you're getting.

And if you can, what you find out about CSM is that by bundling things into large packages, you actually get a DISCOUNT despite its high price tag, and when you combine that secret value with spamming, you can do some pretty neat stuff.

But it's not instantly easy. You have to do more work with synergy than just pointing pathfinders at something and using markerlight dice to solve all your problems, or spamming wave serpents, etc.

CSM are like DE: they're not very forgiving to play. Just because it's more difficult, though, doesn't make their units bad, it just makes them more difficult.

On the plus side, it does give you an easy shorthand for judging people, but you probably already know who "everything is garbage except that OP thing" already are.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'm curious how a list running a Kharnwagon land raider and Juggerlord + Spawn blob would pan out.

I'm thinking you could triple up on goofiness.

Run 3 packs of Nurgle Spawn. 2 of them get Nurgle Biker Lords w/ Sigil, Blight Grenades, Fist / Claw combo, and whatever other doodads you want. This all racks in at under 800 pts. Add 3 Maulerfiends for 375 pts then sprinkle min Plague Marine squads in Rhinos w/ Melta Guns.


Super aggressive play style. At 1,500 pts you're running 15 Spawn, 2 Biker Lords, 2 squads of Plague Marines, and 3 Mauler Fiends. Basically a turn 2 charge is almost guaranteed since nothing is really slowed by terrain.

This is basically my list... variations of this I tweak around with... I run up to 2 max size Slaanesh bike blobs (it's slightly tougher and cheaper than MoN except to ID, and you get initiative as a bonus), a Juggerlord and a Nurgle Bike Lord (demon relics to taste), supported by some form of AT and the rest of the points dumped into our amazing assault units.

I have used 3x Maulerfiends in there, they fit the theme, provide AT, and tear it up in combat no matter what, however in seriousness I'd recommend just taking whatever AT you think is best for the job - Maulerfiends will perform better than usual in a list like this, but still it's just like putting 3 CC Rhinos on the field and are pretty unreliable. Oblits are good here I think, providing options no matter what you are facing, and can easily Melta DS in such an aggressive speedy lis (only if the need be). Nurgle Raptors (GASP) are also great here for DS Melta on a cheap tanky unit body, and the other option being min size triple Melta Nurgle bike squads for the same price - now that Heldrakes aren't a must have, cheap FA Raptors are a much more viable option, you never want to be anything less than maxed on FA slots. That being said, 1 Heldrake will never be the wrong option so I always try to include. Spawn get a really cheap MoK, and being that they are already T5 I feel like this is the way to go with them, although at I3 the extra toughness is still a great option for getting more out of their 3W, if more pricey - I personally prefer paying just 10 pts for 5 S5 attacks, because I always know that's a very cost effective investment, and the saved points can pay for something else's Mark elsewhere (unless there's nothing worthwhile, then I'll grab the MoN). On the subject of Marks, when building for assault just remember that extra attacks are not necessarily any better than extra attacks in CC, but use your judgement.

All in all I think it's a great way to play CSM, and durable speed is something I think we do best, which I think is better than your average glass cannon assault unit, after turn 2 or 3 you can have denied shooting from every single unit with the most potential to damage you, by tying it up in assault. Obviously you don't have this effect on mech, so I think the only way you can really go wrong is by not taking enough AT. Go nuts with whatever combination of Fast Attack units you want p much, I think Bikes are the most cost efficient however.

They're literally 5 points a model more than CSM normal squads. I think people run into these sunken cost fallacy with them.As long as you keep your overall cost to the 23 to 24 point range they're acceptable.
Looking at your overall point spread and not individual point spread is where you'll find a better deal. The best example them versus noise marines.
Their 2 points more but they have the option to instead take sonic blasters take special weapons something other special troops don't have as much access to

It's just making sure to not go over the 25 ppm cap so they have to generally be taken in squads of 10.

Raptors arent necessarily bad, it's just they pale so much in comparison to bikes.

Raptors are playable. Berzekres, not so much. You must invest Heavy in them, and they will useually just get one charge and destroy something useless, and then stand there doing nothing.

I just think there is a range and that right now and people haven't started it yet but Mechanized CSM is very strong.Rhino Rush is strong, now run it with guys that have 2 attacks multiple Powermauls, all inside vehicles that can gain Shrouding from Sorcerers my example I just through together:


Chaos Space Marine Sorcerer w/ Spell Familiar , Bike, Aura Telepathy

5 Mark of Nurgle Spawn

7 CSM Chosen , 2 Melta guns , 2 Power Mauls , Rhino w/ Dirge Caster , Destroyer Blades , Havoc

7 CSM Chosen , 2 Meltaguns, 2 Power Mauls , Rhino w/ Dirge Caster , Destroyer Blades , Havoc


Blast Forward pop smoke , cast Shrouding, 3+ Cover Save

Probably be cheaper if you didn't deck out the Rhinos but I like Destroyer bladesbecause they look cool and I like Havoc Launchers.I'm sure it could be made more efficient , but I will say that Mechanized Chaos is really going to have to come back if people want to be competitive wth their armies.Having access to old school lists like Killer Kan spam etc.. being about to field 11 Walkers under 1200 points etc.. is all good;

Chosen are a excellent choice for Mechanized Chaos especially Black Legion.

Guardianofthegalazy wrote:
It's like I've stated before, the elites are only as good when you get into really high numbers. then it's super efficient.
Like Chosen are actually pretty decent basic troopers.
Sure they're 17 points but you get an extra attack, 4 attacks a and can get way more versatility.
Them losing infiltrate hurt tremendously.

except they are 18 base, and making them troops either requires being black legion(20ppm) or taking abbadon(265 point one off)

 Ailaros wrote:

zoat wrote:What you might miss is that most "this unit sucks" comments on the internet should be read in the context of competitive play. This means you assume players of equal (high) skill that are building lists with unlimited resources and have consistent winning as the primary concern.

I'd actually take the other side of that, sort of. "This unit sucks" is indeed about winning, but it's not a sign of a good player wanting to maximize their army. It's a sign of a bad player who can't figure out how that unit works. Good players can make anything work well enough. Certainly well enough to sneak any weaknesses in underneath the coarse nature of 40k's random element.

When someone says "It is bad" it's much more likely they're saying "I am bad", or at least, not good enough to see how something could be useful.

And that really, really applies to CSM. CSM is not, in any way, a bad army. It is, however, and army that is more difficult to use than most, as it doesn't do gunlining well at all, and it can't run monstrous creature or flier spam. It's not a straightforward win button, and people who rely on that as a crutch will naturally look at the crutchless nature of CSM and assume that they're just bad.

Furthermore, there are plenty of CSM units that are really rather tricky to use right. The reason for this is because there's a bunch of them that have a giant pile of mandatory upgrades. For example, possessed aren't too expensive when you consider the vast pile of stuff you get with them, likewise 1ksons, and, sheesh, most of the codex.

The tricky part is that if you can't make use of those mandatory upgrades, then those points are just going to waste, but that's not the unit's fault, that's yours. Many CSM units have access to genuine versatility and a huge amount of killing power, it's just that you have to make use of everything that you're getting.

And if you can, what you find out about CSM is that by bundling things into large packages, you actually get a DISCOUNT despite its high price tag, and when you combine that secret value with spamming, you can do some pretty neat stuff.

But it's not instantly easy. You have to do more work with synergy than just pointing pathfinders at something and using markerlight dice to solve all your problems, or spamming wave serpents, etc.

CSM are like DE: they're not very forgiving to play. Just because it's more difficult, though, doesn't make their units bad, it just makes them more difficult.

On the plus side, it does give you an easy shorthand for judging people, but you probably already know who "everything is garbage except that OP thing" already are.

"Learn to play better!" Everyone, take a drink.

 jackflashultra wrote:
I love my KB! You know why? They beat the tar out of WHATEVER they assault!
x10 KB with CA on the charge gives you 41 s5 ap4 attacks
and they always do the assaulting thanks to their handy dandy LR
Iv killed units of carnifexs like this as well as having a single KB assault a DE ravager and blow it up!
As said before KB are all or nothing troops and that's how you HAVE to play with them for them to be effective

but what happens when they end up against another dedicated assault unit. Like say DE incubi.(you mentioned that your zerker killed a ravager, so should be fair)

assuming that the zerkers get the charge, even though their land raider is probably toast against DE with all that Darklight and haywire, lets see what happens.
10 zerkers charge, Incubi strike first, kill 5. Zerkers get 20 attacks, kill 2 Incubi. Incubi win and in the next 2 turns the zerkers are gonna get wiped without doing any more significant damage. And that is with the zerkers getting the charge, if the Incubi charge, they will win in a turn less while taking only half the losses.

Zerkers can be ok, they can even be good. But they are not the be all end all of assault units.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

zoat wrote:What you might miss is that most "this unit sucks" comments on the internet should be read in the context of competitive play. This means you assume players of equal (high) skill that are building lists with unlimited resources and have consistent winning as the primary concern.

I'd actually take the other side of that, sort of. "This unit sucks" is indeed about winning, but it's not a sign of a good player wanting to maximize their army. It's a sign of a bad player who can't figure out how that unit works. Good players can make anything work well enough. Certainly well enough to sneak any weaknesses in underneath the coarse nature of 40k's random element.

When someone says "It is bad" it's much more likely they're saying "I am bad", or at least, not good enough to see how something could be useful.

And that really, really applies to CSM. CSM is not, in any way, a bad army. It is, however, and army that is more difficult to use than most, as it doesn't do gunlining well at all, and it can't run monstrous creature or flier spam. It's not a straightforward win button, and people who rely on that as a crutch will naturally look at the crutchless nature of CSM and assume that they're just bad.

Furthermore, there are plenty of CSM units that are really rather tricky to use right. The reason for this is because there's a bunch of them that have a giant pile of mandatory upgrades. For example, possessed aren't too expensive when you consider the vast pile of stuff you get with them, likewise 1ksons, and, sheesh, most of the codex.

The tricky part is that if you can't make use of those mandatory upgrades, then those points are just going to waste, but that's not the unit's fault, that's yours. Many CSM units have access to genuine versatility and a huge amount of killing power, it's just that you have to make use of everything that you're getting.

And if you can, what you find out about CSM is that by bundling things into large packages, you actually get a DISCOUNT despite its high price tag, and when you combine that secret value with spamming, you can do some pretty neat stuff.

But it's not instantly easy. You have to do more work with synergy than just pointing pathfinders at something and using markerlight dice to solve all your problems, or spamming wave serpents, etc.

CSM are like DE: they're not very forgiving to play. Just because it's more difficult, though, doesn't make their units bad, it just makes them more difficult.

On the plus side, it does give you an easy shorthand for judging people, but you probably already know who "everything is garbage except that OP thing" already are.

"Learn to play better!" Everyone, take a drink.

Yup.



To me, players incapable of recognizing gak units, are just as "bad" as the players incapable of recognizing good ones.

"Mutilators aren't bad, you just need to learn how to use them!"


Welcome to 40k. A game created by Games Workshop. Lackluster rulesets galore, extremely subject to human error. A good player can separate the playable from the useless from the situationally viable on their own, without needing the internet to tell them what to do, or by blinding themselves to the fact that not all models ARE made equal.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

zoat wrote:What you might miss is that most "this unit sucks" comments on the internet should be read in the context of competitive play. This means you assume players of equal (high) skill that are building lists with unlimited resources and have consistent winning as the primary concern.

I'd actually take the other side of that, sort of. "This unit sucks" is indeed about winning, but it's not a sign of a good player wanting to maximize their army. It's a sign of a bad player who can't figure out how that unit works. Good players can make anything work well enough. Certainly well enough to sneak any weaknesses in underneath the coarse nature of 40k's random element.

When someone says "It is bad" it's much more likely they're saying "I am bad", or at least, not good enough to see how something could be useful.

And that really, really applies to CSM. CSM is not, in any way, a bad army. It is, however, and army that is more difficult to use than most, as it doesn't do gunlining well at all, and it can't run monstrous creature or flier spam. It's not a straightforward win button, and people who rely on that as a crutch will naturally look at the crutchless nature of CSM and assume that they're just bad.

Furthermore, there are plenty of CSM units that are really rather tricky to use right. The reason for this is because there's a bunch of them that have a giant pile of mandatory upgrades. For example, possessed aren't too expensive when you consider the vast pile of stuff you get with them, likewise 1ksons, and, sheesh, most of the codex.

The tricky part is that if you can't make use of those mandatory upgrades, then those points are just going to waste, but that's not the unit's fault, that's yours. Many CSM units have access to genuine versatility and a huge amount of killing power, it's just that you have to make use of everything that you're getting.

And if you can, what you find out about CSM is that by bundling things into large packages, you actually get a DISCOUNT despite its high price tag, and when you combine that secret value with spamming, you can do some pretty neat stuff.

But it's not instantly easy. You have to do more work with synergy than just pointing pathfinders at something and using markerlight dice to solve all your problems, or spamming wave serpents, etc.

CSM are like DE: they're not very forgiving to play. Just because it's more difficult, though, doesn't make their units bad, it just makes them more difficult.

On the plus side, it does give you an easy shorthand for judging people, but you probably already know who "everything is garbage except that OP thing" already are.

"Learn to play better!" Everyone, take a drink.

Yup.



To me, players incapable of recognizing gak units, are just as "bad" as the players incapable of recognizing good ones.

"Mutilators aren't bad, you just need to learn how to use them!"


Welcome to 40k. A game created by Games Workshop. Lackluster rulesets galore, extremely subject to human error. A good player can separate the playable from the useless from the situationally viable on their own, without needing the internet to tell them what to do, or by blinding themselves to the fact that not all models ARE made equal.

I know the answer to this one! NEVER!

Maybe you could do something with Mutilators and like Chaos Daemons or something. It's to bad the Marks they get don't make them a "daemon of".

If that one little thing was changed they would actually be viable..

Gotta be a use for Mutilators some how.

I wish GW wouldn't havedropped the ball on that and made all daemons universally have the same thing and Daemons be able to join CSM.

Grrrrrr.

If they went and fixed Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Possessed, Chosen, Warp Smiths, Dark Apostles, Chaos Lords, Chosen, Warp Talons, Defilers, Land Raiders and all of our Elites, The codex would be in a better position.

What I mean by the above is that they are all over-costed, pigeon holed into a singular purpose and excel at nothing.

Warp Talons kill Marines for 30 points per model. Effectively disembodied floating Lightning Claws that have a 3+ save and a 5++ which don't have grenades and cannot kill anything aside from the 1 thing they excel at. MEQ.

Maulerfiends are another good example. Hey these are neat right? Mechanical Dino-bot thing that is supposed to be good in Melee and excel at killing vehicles because of the Magma Cutters. Except when you fight anything that is the plethora of Dreadnaught-esque models out there that have a WS of 4 or greater you aren't doing crap because you're a Daemon Engine with WS 3.Meaning you're hitting other walkers on 5s. And chances are they're beating your face in anyways before you even get to go since you're I3

Forefiend is in the same boat only slightly less terrible because you can have a 1 in 3 chance of scoring a direct hit when using the Ectoplasma Cannons. Except by that point anything you're trying to kill has probably been shooting at you for a turn or two since their range is the same as a standard Boltgun... Not to mention you're BS 3 LOL

Possessed were only slightly less terrible because of the Crimson Slaughter Dex, but even then the fact they no longer have AP3 and are completely subjected to a random D3 chart for effectiveness makes them a wash. At 26 points per model you have a 1 in 3 chance of killing the unit you send them in after to do the job you wanted them to do. Woopi!

Chosen wouldn't be so terrible if they were cheaper and actually competitive in a form that didn't require you to invest an absurd amount of points into them being either Ranged Plasma spammers or CC monsters with LC + PF upgrades. There is no reason to take things that expensive when you can just run Terminators who no only aren't subjected to being gimp with a 3+ armors save but come stock with the TEQ 5++ and get FREE power weapons.

Then there are the Elites... Every single one of our elites slot MEQ units aside from the Noise Marines (IMO) are garbage. The NM offer more shots, can push wounds, aren't terrible in melee and can strike MEQ first, have access to FNP and Blast Masters which out range most MEQ units and other army basic troop choices. Ignores Cover makes them a foot hold for the #1 spot in my MEQ Rhino packers. If I want MEQ I take NMs. Berzerkers are just not viable unless you take them in a 235 point LR, which eats up valuable HS slots. Thousand Sons are over costed and provide nothing special from being easily dealt with and out ranged from every army since they're slow as molasses and can't fire Over Watch. A 4++ and AP3 Boltgun are "Nice" if you can ever make use of them. But then you're stuck with that terrible Sorcerer in their group who's sole job is to be an expensive waste of a 3+ MEQ.

Plague Marines are fantastic. I like them. They could use some love though since the poison rule got nerfed.

Warp Smiths are absolutely terrible in every respect to the CSM dex and a complete slap in the face to CSM lore wise. Why is it that a Warp Entity driven Machine cannot be repaired on anything other than a 5+? If I go out and pay 20 points for a Land Raider to become Daemonically Possessed, there had better be some freaking upsides to that thing possibly eating Abaddon or one of my Terminators. Who's terrible Idea was it that a Warp Smith can't gain a modifier when repairing a Daemonically Possessed vehicle? This is the different I hate between Smiths from CSM and SMs. If you ignore a SM smithy, he'll repair things and you're wasting your fire power. You can DOWN RIGHT IGNORE a Warp Smith and smash all his toys with 0 wasted effort on your part while gaining the benefit of NOT wasting fire power on him.

Dark Apostles. Why?.... Just why?!

Chaos Lords are supposed to be surging with Chaotic Powers by their worshiped deity. Survivors of thousands of years of Conflict. They have 3 Wounds?... WTF?! Sorry sorry, I get it now, SMs have magical cloning machines for Chapter Masters that revitalizes them and makes them stronger. The only thing these guys are Lords of, is the trash pile for unlocking our NMs and PMs. Thank god we can waste 65 + 15 points on a guy we'll just hide the entire game. Not like I'd rather Take Typhus (Who I have an issue with anyways) or Lucius (Who is surprisingly amazing) they just out perform them anyways.

Land Raiders and Mutilators. Land Raiders for CSM are like cheap chinese knock offs you buy at your local grocery store Tech department. You pay for it, bring it home, realize half it's features don't work and they don't compensate you at all for it. POMS meant you could fire the 1 side sponson that rarely ever sees combat at something else. We don't get that. Even with Daemonic Possession. (Because they're different somehow...) You don't get anything special out of them neither. You get Lascannons, and you have to like them and make use of them or they are worthless. So, point em at scouts and over kill.

Mutilators are by far the absolute trashiest hunks of resin to have ever come out of the GW factories. They're ugly, and not in a pretty chaotic way most of us like. They're just hideous. They're lore is terrible, their rules are terrible, their gear is terrible and anything you give them to make them better gimps your lists because by simply removing them, you become infinitely better. Why run 3 Mutilators in a Land Raider? I can run 5 Terminators, in a LR that costs just as much, and the LR can be a DT which frees up a HS slot... They don't get anything special in the CC weapons department, no fancy Daemon Weapon or rule that lets them mix and match. They just plain suck.

GAHH! Why have I wasted my life ranting about this Q_Q

Wow. So there's hating on the bad units on the CSM codex, and then there's irrationally hating the ENTIRE CSM codex. Guess Ailaros and Golioth are showing both sides of the coin here.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Wow. So there's hating on the bad units on the CSM codex, and then there's irrationally hating the ENTIRE CSM codex. Guess Ailaros and Golioth are showing both sides of the coin here.

I think Golioth is closer to the truth. The CSM kinda sucks with both fluff and function.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Wow. So there's hating on the bad units on the CSM codex, and then there's irrationally hating the ENTIRE CSM codex. Guess Ailaros and Golioth are showing both sides of the coin here.

I think Golioth is closer to the truth. The CSM kinda sucks with both fluff and function.

On that, we can agree. The codex as a package was a disappointment.

There are some bad units like Golioth said but overall I don't think it's a gak codex and still a good one, if you just think of it this way.

The book as the following units

Chaos Sorcerers
Typhus
Daemon Princes

Elites
Chaos Terminators
Troops
Cultist
Plague Marines
Noise Marines

Fast Attack
Bikers
Heldrakes
Chaos Spawn

H. Support
Obliterators
Vindicators
Maulerfiends
Havocs

Formations
Murderpack
Mayhem Pack
Belakor

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Wow. So there's hating on the bad units on the CSM codex, and then there's irrationally hating the ENTIRE CSM codex. Guess Ailaros and Golioth are showing both sides of the coin here.

I think Golioth is closer to the truth. The CSM kinda sucks with both fluff and function.

On that, we can agree. The codex as a package was a disappointment.

There you go. I disagree with a lot of the things he said although I think he's closer to the truth than Ailaros, I think a lot of his comparisons to the SM dex are not a great way of looking at it. Yes the loyalist Land a raider is probably better, however the loyalist version can't be used to drop Abaddon and a squad of Mark of Tzeentch Lightning Claw Terminators in their face. I think it's about looking at the entire package and I think Lords, Waprsmiths, even Apostles are ok and useable. And certainly not cause of complaint in a dex with Warp Talons and Mutilators

Hollismason wrote:
There are some bad units like Golioth said but overall I don't think it's a gak codex and still a good one, if you just think of it this way.

The book as the following units

Chaos Sorcerers
Typhus
Daemon Princes

Elites
Chaos Terminators
Troops
Cultist
Plague Marines
Noise Marines

Fast Attack
Bikers
Heldrakes
Chaos Spawn

H. Support
Obliterators
Vindicators
Maulerfiends
Havocs

Formations
Murderpack
Mayhem Pack
Belakor

LOL! All the units I dislike the most. (Except havocs) Nurgle, heldrakes and oblits list. Boring. And for the record, I actually like the warpsmith!

Eh I lean more towards playing Slaanesh than Nurgle , but even then I do themed armies so that's just me.'d be hard pressed to argue against CSM bikers being a "bad" unit though. And Chaos Space Marine Sorcerers are fantastic right now.Noise Marines got a huge boost with the faq changing that wording.

Noise marines are pretty boss.

Also, I made a general Chaos thread discuss it there what sort of list you play?

I lean Mechanized or Slaanesh some Nurgle hardly ever Khorne or Tzeentch.


Right now I'm trying to build up a "Ground and Pound" with Vindicators etc.. Just lots o powerful shooting etc..

Lords, Ahriman, Raptors, the Helcut and more all belong up there, that's a pretty narrow list and much more is playable than that

 SHUPPET wrote:
Lords, Ahriman, Raptors, the Helcut and more all belong up there, that's a pretty narrow list and much more is playable than that

Not so sold on Raptors or melee lords, Ahriman maybe but I've never seen one roll as well as a sorc with the reroll demon.

Hollismason wrote:
Eh I lean more towards playing Slaanesh than Nurgle , but even then I do themed armies so that's just me.'d be hard pressed to argue against CSM bikers being a "bad" unit though. And Chaos Space Marine Sorcerers are fantastic right now.Noise Marines got a huge boost with the faq changing that wording.

Noise marines are pretty boss.

Also, I made a general Chaos thread discuss it there what sort of list you play?

I lean Mechanized or Slaanesh some Nurgle hardly ever Khorne or Tzeentch.


Right now I'm trying to build up a "Ground and Pound" with Vindicators etc.. Just lots o powerful shooting etc..

A 9 man squad of Slaanesh Bikers led by a Lord is probably the strongest most cost efficient unit in the dex IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Lords, Ahriman, Raptors, the Helcut and more all belong up there, that's a pretty narrow list and much more is playable than that

Not so sold on Raptors or melee lords, Ahriman maybe but I've never seen one roll as well as a sorc with the reroll demon.

Well, the Raptors are often worse than bikes but do have merits of their own including deep strike and more bodies. They are very playable and not a bad unit at all.

Exactly what is wrong with the lords? Without comparisons to SM units please

Yeah I like Slaanesh bikers more than Nurgle the more I play them, I like the 4+ , 5+ more than the 4+ , T6

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah I like Slaanesh bikers more than Nurgle the more I play them, I like the 4+ , 5+ more than the 4+ , T6

It maths out to them being more durable, and at max size squad it's actually cheaper.

3man melta bike squads are still better off with Nurgle, or just taking Raptors.

Yeah it's the same with almost everything Slaanesh go big or don't.

I do like that Ahriman , Prospero Star whatever it's called. I played it a few times it's fun but if you don't get GOI it succcccks

Exactly what is wrong with the lords? Without comparisons to SM units please

Well the only lord chassis that seems to work is the Juggerlord/spawn combo, not the Lord himself.

This is a genuine question, what exactly is wrong with Nurgle Lord on a bike with a BBoS? Or even on a Palanquin? I'm just wondering, is it the price?