Moriarty as a Bond Villain????

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**Paradigm**

Although Bond has a very loose chronology, I think that all the Craig ones are to all intents prequels to the older movies; Casino was the first book, after all. So even if this film deals with the formation and early days of Spectre and Blofeld's rise to it's upper echelons, that's all good.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Paradigm wrote:
Although Bond has a very loose chronology, I think that all the Craig ones are to all intents prequels to the older movies; Casino was the first book, after all. So even if this film deals with the formation and early days of Spectre and Blofeld's rise to it's upper echelons, that's all good.

That would be one way of "bringing back" Blofeld, however with the announcements, it would seem his character's name will be Oberhauser, as we also have Dave Bautista playing "Mr. Hinx" who is rumored to be a "Jaws-like" character. It seems that, while it's a reboot, it's not a complete reboot because the only characters being "reused" are the ones we've already discussed (007, M, and Q... as well as Ms. Moneypenny.... I hope she comes back)

**Fafnir**

Yodhrin wrote:
Paradigm wrote:
Surtur wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
Blegh, not fussed. Honestly the BBC Sherlock doesn't grab me at all; Jared Harris' Moriarty from the Game of Shadows movie was far better than this bloke IMO(in fact, call me when Harris is doing a Bond villain and I'll be right on board), and I prefer Jonny Lee Miller's Sherlock in Elementary over Cumberbatch's "which mental illness will I claim to have this series?" take on the role.

Not gonna lie, I was hoping this would be the RDJ Sherlocke's Moriarty too. He would be an amazing villain, perhaps Blofeld or Goldfinger.

Have to say, it took me a while to 'get' the Jared Harris Moriarty in A Game of Shadows. While he eventually clicked on about the 4th or 5th watching, initially I found him very flat compared to Scott's version, which was very much larger than life. It's actually quite funny how the RDJ and Cumberbatch Sherlocks are actually quite similar, the two franchises went completely different directions with his nemesis. While they both have the same hatred, nihilism and disregard at the heart of the portrayal, Scott really spews that out at the world, almost uncontrollably, while Harris gives the impression is just under the surface, but very well hidden and managed. I can see that version going all out insane if you chink that armour, but at the same time, he's very much got a lid on it.

I suppose the reason I took a while to warm to the Harris version was that Scott left such an impression (I consider his first real appearance in Sherlock as possibly the best single episode of any television show ever) and I found it hard to see Moriarty as something different. Now that I get both, I do find it fascinating how the same character can inspire almost polar opposites in performance.

Plus, I can't get over how much the BBC sanitized Sherlock himself - I mean seriously, nicotine patches? One of the most famous addict characters in literary history, and they not only downgrade him from hard drugs to cigarette cravings, but they don't even actually have him smoking. At least RDJ's "quirky" version was quirky because he was out of his gourd on opiates and embalming fluid.

Wasn't there one episode where Sherlock's apartment was about to be searched, and he was pretty adamant to Watson about not allowing it? I felt that it was pretty heavily implied that there were things much stronger than nicotine patches stowed away in there.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Fafnir wrote:

Wasn't there one episode where Sherlock's apartment was about to be searched, and he was pretty adamant to Watson about not allowing it? I felt that it was pretty heavily implied that there were things much stronger than nicotine patches stowed away in there.

Well, we do have certain episodes where we KNOW Sherlock has random body parts in his fridge/freezer.... So it may not always be drugs

**Crablezworth**

I can't tell if this is satire or not http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/4/7333727/james-bond-spectre-sexism-skyfall

**Ensis Ferrae**

Crablezworth wrote:
I can't tell if this is satire or not http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/4/7333727/james-bond-spectre-sexism-skyfall

I didn't read all of it... but I'm going to hazard the guess... based on author and overall tone, that it isn't.

While I have issues with real life sexism, I don't actually have much, or any issue with a character like Bond being sexist. It is, at this point, a fairly core element of his character... I mean, in CR, he very nearly meets his match in Vesper, until he breaks her down with his astounding wit and charm (that may or may not be sarcasm

). But, I think that Craig's version of Bond, in his dealings with strong women such as Vesper, and especially M are actually well written and well acted.

**Ahtman**

Paradigm wrote:
Although Bond has a very loose chronology, I think that all the Craig ones are to all intents prequels to the older movies; Casino was the first book, after all. So even if this film deals with the formation and early days of Spectre and Blofeld's rise to it's upper echelons, that's all good.

These aren't prequels but a whole different story arc. Bloomfield hasn't even been introduced let alone killed once so he can't be resurrected. Felix hasn't been fed to a shark either in this series. There was a bit of a timeline with the Connery films but once Moore came in everything was tossed out the window. Sometimes there was a connection sometimes there wasn't. Sometimes one element might exist while others didn't. It gets crazy for those who needs something like a strongly delineated timeline.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Paradigm wrote:
Although Bond has a very loose chronology, I think that all the Craig ones are to all intents prequels to the older movies; Casino was the first book, after all. So even if this film deals with the formation and early days of Spectre and Blofeld's rise to it's upper echelons, that's all good.

That would be one way of "bringing back" Blofeld, however with the announcements, it would seem his character's name will be Oberhauser, as we also have Dave Bautista playing "Mr. Hinx" who is rumored to be a "Jaws-like" character. It seems that, while it's a reboot, it's not a complete reboot because the only characters being "reused" are the ones we've already discussed (007, M, and Q... as well as Ms. Moneypenny.... I hope she comes back)

Ms. Moneypenny has been confirmed to be returning with the new Q and M, as per normal.

**His Master's Voice**

Crablezworth wrote:
I can't tell if this is satire or not http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/4/7333727/james-bond-spectre-sexism-skyfall

It's not satire, it's Polygon.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

I greeted the new Star Wars with a shrug of the shoulders, but a new Bond film?

Yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

**Flashman**

Interestingly it was also confirmed today that Mr White (of Quantum association) will return to the franchise in this film.

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=42923

This suggests that Quantum may initially serve as some sort of forebear or link to Spectre. At the very least it should mean that the Quantum plotline will be resolved.

**Albatross**

Can't wait for this. 'Skyfall' is literally one of my favourite films.

**Easy E**

Flashman wrote:
Interestingly it was also confirmed today that Mr White (of Quantum association) will return to the franchise in this film.

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=42923

This suggests that Quantum may initially serve as some sort of forebear or link to Spectre. At the very least it should mean that the Quantum plotline will be resolved.

Thanks for that. i was wondering if Quantum would end up being a forerunner to Spectre.

Didn't Bond kill Mr. White at the beginning of Quantum of Solace? Or did he just shoot him and leave him in the trunk of a car? I don't really recall.

**Flashman**

Easy E wrote:
Flashman wrote:
Interestingly it was also confirmed today that Mr White (of Quantum association) will return to the franchise in this film.

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=42923

This suggests that Quantum may initially serve as some sort of forebear or link to Spectre. At the very least it should mean that the Quantum plotline will be resolved.

Thanks for that. i was wondering if Quantum would end up being a forerunner to Spectre.

Didn't Bond kill Mr. White at the beginning of Quantum of Solace? Or did he just shoot him and leave him in the trunk of a car? I don't really recall.

He was last seen in the opera sequence in QoS as other members of Quantum bid a hasty exit from the theatre. There was a scene shot that showed Bond killing Mr White at the end of QoS. It was cut from the film and does not appear on any DVDs as a deleted scene. Ergo, Mr White is still alive.

**Ahtman**

Would it really surprise anyone if the group from Quantum of Solace was a part of SPECTRE?

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Flashman wrote:
Interestingly it was also confirmed today that Mr White (of Quantum association) will return to the franchise in this film.

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=42923

This suggests that Quantum may initially serve as some sort of forebear or link to Spectre. At the very least it should mean that the Quantum plotline will be resolved.

You're probably one of the few people on earth that understands the QoS plotline. I'm still scratching my head!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:
Would it really surprise anyone if the group from Quantum of Solace was a part of SPECTRE?

Interesting Bond fact: Quantum of Solace and SPECTRE both share 3 letters in common, which is the same number of times Blofeld has appeared in the Bond films...spooky...

Spoiler:

**Goliath**

Crablezworth wrote:
I can't tell if this is satire or not http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/4/7333727/james-bond-spectre-sexism-skyfall

How is inaccurate? I mean, even M referred to Bond as a "sexist, misogynist dinosaur". It's all well and good to argue that it's a traditional aspect of the character, but to argue that anything that says Bond is sexist must be satire is, well, daft.

Besides which, how is it silly to hope for female characters that don't all end up dead in the next film?

**His Master's Voice**

Didn't they come up with Quantum because they didn't have the rights to the SPECTRE name at the time?

I'm sure we'll learn that Quantum was just a SPECTRE project, and Mr White was Number Three or whatever.

He'll probably have a cameo where he gets executed in some amusingly creative way, on orders from a man with a white cat.

Goliath wrote:
How is inaccurate? I mean, even M referred to Bond as a "sexist, misogynist dinosaur". It's all well and good to argue that it's a traditional aspect of the character, but to argue that anything that says Bond is sexist must be satire is, well, daft.

This isn't about Bond, the character, being sexist (a debatable claim by itself, in relation the the screen version at least). It's about Skyfall as a film being sexist, because a female agent decides to take a desk job. And another female dies and isn't properly mourned by Bond.

**Ahtman**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
You're probably one of the few people on earth that understands the QoS plotline. I'm still scratching my head!

Really? I thought it was fairly simple. A powerful (read rich) man offered to help a General in trade for water rights. Of course the General didn't realize how important water actually is as a resource and was essentially giving the keys to the kingdom to the guy. The guy might have also been a front for SPECTRE as well.

**Flashman**

Ahtman wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
You're probably one of the few people on earth that understands the QoS plotline. I'm still scratching my head!

Really? I thought it was fairly simple. A powerful (read rich) man offered to help a General in trade for water rights. Of course the General didn't realize how important water actually is as a resource and was essentially giving the keys to the kingdom to the guy. The guy might have also been a front for SPECTRE as well.

Indeed, as the last E in SPECTRE stands for extortion which is what Mr Green was trying to do

**His Master's Voice**

Flashman wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
You're probably one of the few people on earth that understands the QoS plotline. I'm still scratching my head!

Really? I thought it was fairly simple. A powerful (read rich) man offered to help a General in trade for water rights. Of course the General didn't realize how important water actually is as a resource and was essentially giving the keys to the kingdom to the guy. The guy might have also been a front for SPECTRE as well.

Indeed, as the last E in SPECTRE stands for extortion which is what Mr Green was trying to do

Insert mindblown.gif here.

**Flashman**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Flashman wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
You're probably one of the few people on earth that understands the QoS plotline. I'm still scratching my head!

Really? I thought it was fairly simple. A powerful (read rich) man offered to help a General in trade for water rights. Of course the General didn't realize how important water actually is as a resource and was essentially giving the keys to the kingdom to the guy. The guy might have also been a front for SPECTRE as well.

Indeed, as the last E in SPECTRE stands for extortion which is what Mr Green was trying to do

Insert mindblown.gif here.

Insert this

(I jest really)

**His Master's Voice**

So did I

**Easy E**

I'm impressed he recalls all the words SPECTRE is an acronym for.

**Goliath**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Goliath wrote:
How is inaccurate? I mean, even M referred to Bond as a "sexist, misogynist dinosaur". It's all well and good to argue that it's a traditional aspect of the character, but to argue that anything that says Bond is sexist must be satire is, well, daft.

This isn't about Bond, the character, being sexist (a debatable claim by itself, in relation the the screen version at least). It's about Skyfall as a film being sexist, because a female agent decides to take a desk job. And another female dies and isn't properly mourned by Bond.

Eh, I took it less as "This s super sexist and needs to change right now", but more that the first two films were excellent with regards to their portrayal of female characters, whereas Skyfall had issues, and they were hoping that they'd be able to get back to being as good as Quantum of Solace and Casino Royale.

On which note, I'm going to go and watch all the new bond films on Netflix.

**reds8n**

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/12/mr-white-will-return-spectre/

Jesper Christensen, the man who played Mr. White in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, has confirmed that he will be returning for Spectre. Because of legal reasons, producers couldn’t use the name Spectre earlier, hence we got the shadow organization Quantum that coerced Vespa (Eva Green) to betray James Bond (Daniel Craig) and MI6. But now that the rights to the name Spectre have been worked out, it looks like Mr. White’s group may be getting a name change

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/12/mr-white-will-return-spectre/

Jesper Christensen, the man who played Mr. White in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, has confirmed that he will be returning for Spectre. Because of legal reasons, producers couldn’t use the name Spectre earlier, hence we got the shadow organization Quantum that coerced Vespa (Eva Green) to betray James Bond (Daniel Craig) and MI6. But now that the rights to the name Spectre have been worked out, it looks like Mr. White’s group may be getting a name change

Getting the rights to SPECTRE is one thing, but who's got the rights to the Cat?

On another note, despite other posters explaining the plot of QoS, I'm still confused.

There are only two things on this Earth that confuse me: QoS, and self service checkouts.

**Mr Morden**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
reds8n wrote:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/12/mr-white-will-return-spectre/

Jesper Christensen, the man who played Mr. White in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, has confirmed that he will be returning for Spectre. Because of legal reasons, producers couldn’t use the name Spectre earlier, hence we got the shadow organization Quantum that coerced Vespa (Eva Green) to betray James Bond (Daniel Craig) and MI6. But now that the rights to the name Spectre have been worked out, it looks like Mr. White’s group may be getting a name change

Getting the rights to SPECTRE is one thing, but who's got the rights to the Cat?

On another note, despite other posters explaining the plot of QoS, I'm still confused.

There are only two things on this Earth that confuse me: QoS, and self service checkouts.

Thats cos the plot was (IMO) so bad - its wasn;t a classic bond film or a new style but a bit of both and I don't think it worked - nor the lets steal lots of water - sort of.....

**Flashman**

@ Do I Not Like That - Plot of QoS is easy...

Bond wants revenge on Quantum guy who manipulated Vesper. Says he doesn't.
Manages to track down a Quantum agent - Dominic Green
Dominic Green wants to control water utilities in tin pot dictatorship, stages a coup and gets new dictator to sign over apparently worthless land where all water is stored, then extorts large amounts of cash to supply country with water.
Bond storms hotel where deal is going down, blows everything up, because you know, Bond, and then interrogates Green for information about Quantum guy who manipulated Vesper.
Bond is then able to find Vesper's manipulating Quantum boyfriend. Decides not to kill him (despite killing pretty much everyone else he came across in the film) and hands him over to MI6.

**Easy E**

When I re-watched Casino and QoS I was surprised how closely the two stories went together.