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the markers, silouettes and printable stuff

http://infinitythegame.com/archivo/Sheets_A4.pdf

Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.

Henshini wrote:
Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.

Correct me if im wrong but there are Plasma Snipers and K1 Snipers and not Plasma or K1 HMG. I will take K1 sniper over a HMG any day.

Henshini wrote:
Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.

B2 DA?

and DA is scarier in ARO

DA option can be used in active turn? That's neat.

I'd still go with more burst. Higher chance for winning face to face and landing a critical value.

str00dles1 wrote:

Henshini wrote:
Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.

Correct me if im wrong but there are Plasma Snipers and K1 Snipers and not Plasma or K1 HMG. I will take K1 sniper over a HMG any day.

Even if I played combined and I was given that choice, I'm still not sure I would. 4 dice vs 2 is a pretty huge difference. That being said, the other dozen factions and sub factions who only have multi snipers or ap snipers or just straight up sniper rifles still have the same false choice. 0.5 extra SWC for half the shots? No thanks.

Pshhht, keep your firearms I am ready for an all bows all the time list

MULTI snipers have some definite boons going for them now. The range difference between an HMG and sniper rifle is actually quite substantial now. The HMG's range cuts off long before the sniper rifle does and it is well in to its penalty ranges while the sniper rifle is still enjoying a +3 to hit. Next, it is the only MULTI weapon to keep B2 DA as an option (AP is still largely useless on it save for two TAGs). Their massive point reduction was the only other catalyst they needed to be worthwhile.

The sniper rifle's ability to outrange everything else mixed with camo often means folks can't fire back at you now (that extra -3 from surprise is huge in terms of long-range engagements; reaching -12 BS mod on a cheap camo'd sniper has never been easier).

Things like the MSR Intruder have a definite role to play now and the HMG is far less of an auto-include. The only profiles where it tends to matter now are the AD profiles and most of those lost their HMG making it a moot point (I think only the Hellcat kept the MSR/HMG, the Paras never had a MULTI and the basic SR was always pretty cheap compared to the HMG). On these guys, however, it is more a question of whether the excess range is needed rather than an inherent problem with the SR cost/ability.

On those few existing profiles that don't have some form of advanced deployment and have kept their MSR and HMG loadouts, I don't think there is much of an issue anymore. The two weapons now fill different niches and the MULTI part of the MSR is generally left in a more potent state than the lighter MULTI weapons.

If you find its range advantage is not worth it you may be playing with too much terrain, or at the very least, too little vertical terrain. Sniper rifles should occasionally get to be long-reaching weapons of terror and suppression, so remember to have a few long firing lanes where they can cause some havoc to the unweary. Tall positions tend to be good for this especially as part of a deployment zone perk for the chap that chooses to go second.

HMG and MSR range profiles are identical up to 32". I play on 4'x4' tables. Taking deployment zones into account, nearly all engagements happen below 32", with or without terrain. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe all of my opponents aren't dumb enough to give me free shots.

weird American hiper-dense "heroic" terrain is my guess

But I like my HMC BS14 HI, this guy looks like golden, and only 55/2

 aldo wrote:
weird American hiper-dense "heroic" terrain is my guess

Let's NOT start that up again, please.

4' X 4' has always been pretty small considering the ranges in Infinity. I always preferred 4' X 5' or 4' X 6' with deployment on the short edges.

And even CB recommend having something in the good deployment zone that allows you to reach out and touch the opposing deployment zone on turn 1. One of the big things folks forget when setting up Infinity terrain is to make sure deployment zones are actually unbalanced. Hell, it should be a thing in nearly every IGOUGO turn-sequence game (true alternating can usually get away with balanced sides). Popping a big sniper tower in their deployment zone or giving them a long firing lane is a good way of this even on a 4' X 4' table.

But if you ever get a chance do a 300 point game on a 4' X 6'. Even when well-covered in terrain, it leaves a lot of potential firing lanes of extreme range (especially once folks start going up to get a height advantage. Our last game of 2nd Edition actually had the x-visor on an MSR profile coming in to play and several firefights out past 50". And despite all of that, there were still numerous paths my Kuang Shi and Monks could take to cross the table. It is hard to go back down to smaller tables after these kinds of games.

Edit - That reminds me, I seem to recall it being the thing to do in 2nd Edition early on to play lengthways on a 5-6' long table (hell, I'm not near my books to check, but I even remember it being in the rulebook). I even remember folks kind of balking at Paradiso making most tables 4' X 4'. Did Paradiso and ITS move things back toward 4' X 4'? I can see how the tiny turn limit on ITS would basically require it, but smaller table definitely has an effect on medium-long range support weapons. In N3 that basically ensures the Spitfire ends up reigning in the HMG's place (especially with denser terrain in the mix). The HMG getting a better range from 24-32" probably isn't worth the greater penalty at shorter ranges in these cases. And if setup isn't giving a good field control boost to the deployment zone winner then I can see how folks would think even the N3 sniper rifle isn't worth the trouble.

The missions in the new rulebook are similar to ITS, but now don't require specialists. Instead, specialists just get bonuses when doing objectives.

I might be an idiot here. But what happened to my beloved Sin Eater Observants and Reverend Custodiers? Couldn't see anything about them in the rules. ???
Am I now stuck with useless minis?

Wait did they take away the Fiday's BS? But that was the best bit

 hippiehobo wrote:
Wait did they take away the Fiday's BS? But that was the best bit

They didn't. The Boarding Shotgun profile was added in Human Sphere, and no Human Sphere profiles were included. So while it makes sense to consolidate that profile into N3, they didn't and left it in Human Sphere to be updated via PDF/Army builder.

 Tjomball wrote:
I might be an idiot here. But what happened to my beloved Sin Eater Observants and Reverend Custodiers? Couldn't see anything about them in the rules. ???
Am I now stuck with useless minis?

They're Human Sphere units. They won't be in the book. CB have said for months the N3 rulebook will only include unit profiles from the core rulebook plus some extra new units. Existing units from other books will not be included.

So I got my N3 book today.

Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!

 -Loki- wrote:

They're Human Sphere units. They won't be in the book. CB have said for months the N3 rulebook will only include unit profiles from the core rulebook plus some extra new units. Existing units from other books will not be included.

Yeah, this is why all the units that should have Minelayer options don't appear to have them, because Minelayer was added in HS.

I wanna see if Chasseurs got a point increase, especially the minelayers.

Although I really need at least the stats for Briscards, since my opponent tends to field a lot of ninjas.

 Tjomball wrote:
I might be an idiot here. But what happened to my beloved Sin Eater Observants and Reverend Custodiers? Couldn't see anything about them in the rules. ???
Am I now stuck with useless minis?

Nope, they will be in the Human Sphere lists when they get done.
This book IS ONLY the replacement for the N2 book. Not N2+HS+CP. Those units will come when the Army builder 5 goes online, and with the pdfs after this.

I've got keisotsu butai for my JSA that have no N3 profile and they WERE in the N2 book. So you aren't alone in this.

So did anyone see a weapon with Comms Equipment?

I post in the New thread but bitching up there, so I'll say again. Wow, CSU are ITS legal.

Then Inspiring Leadership will be great for Coordinated Order.

I likely what I see so far.

So although I have the book, I need to Dl the pdf onto my Note 3 and start setting up bookmarks on it for ease of use.

Henshini wrote:HMG and MSR range profiles are identical up to 32". I play on 4'x4' tables. Taking deployment zones into account, nearly all engagements happen below 32", with or without terrain. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe all of my opponents aren't dumb enough to give me free shots.

It's highly dependant on terrain. If you look at the terrain advice on p186 it looks like CB are expecting people to play on tables where there are at least some fire corridors all the way across the table and that sniper nests are an expected part of the game.

Also, if you take a look at the new Missile Launcher range bands it's got a +3 range of 24-40"...

Noir wrote:So did anyone see a weapon with Comms Equipment?

That's generally for equipment rather than guns, so stuff like Hacking Devices and Repeaters.

 NuclearMessiah wrote:
So although I have the book, I need to Dl the pdf onto my Note 3 and start setting up bookmarks on it for ease of use.

I've added bookmarks and put it up on my dropbox here if you'd like:

Hope its ok with CB :x

 ckig wrote:

 NuclearMessiah wrote:
So although I have the book, I need to Dl the pdf onto my Note 3 and start setting up bookmarks on it for ease of use.

I've added bookmarks and put it up on my dropbox here if you'd like:

Hope its ok with CB :x

Cool, will check it out when I am not at work and can get into dropbox.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I got my N3 book today.

Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!

Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.

 GrenAcid wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I got my N3 book today.

Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!

Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.

If no one beats me to it, I will when I get home in a few hours

Also thanks for joining us down here, I hate having to be an ogre and keep poking people to use this place.

 GrenAcid wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I got my N3 book today.

Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!

Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.

Jaguars are gangers that get given two choices: Go for a long walk out an airlock without a suit or join the Jaguars. Those that join get broken down until they forget their ganger ties and start working together...because they hate their instructors. They're a "light assault unit" that also serve a law enforcement role in Corregidor modules by keeping the gang wars from happening.

Bandits are codenames for Sub-Saharan Africa tribesmen and tribeswomen(initially, from the way it reads) that were chosen by the shaman amongst the refugees to serve as a kind of "guardian spirits" for the refugees against the gangs. Initially they were just killers, but then they were trained as thieves to take supplies necessary for the refugees to survive.
In steps The Mexican General who approaches the Shaman to have the Mbeli("Guardian Spirit") become part of the Black Hand. They now serve not just the refugees but all of the Nomad Nation.

 IJW wrote:

Henshini wrote:HMG and MSR range profiles are identical up to 32". I play on 4'x4' tables. Taking deployment zones into account, nearly all engagements happen below 32", with or without terrain. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe all of my opponents aren't dumb enough to give me free shots.

It's highly dependant on terrain. If you look at the terrain advice on p186 it looks like CB are expecting people to play on tables where there are at least some fire corridors all the way across the table and that sniper nests are an expected part of the game.

Also, if you take a look at the new Missile Launcher range bands it's got a +3 range of 24-40"...

Noir wrote:So did anyone see a weapon with Comms Equipment?

That's generally for equipment rather than guns, so stuff like Hacking Devices and Repeaters.

True,but it is listed under the Weapon Trait list and it not being on any weapon means no more E/M a units weapons then kill them.

The entire section starting on page 104 and ending on page 141 is called "Weaponry and Equipment" and the section you're referring to specifically states:

Most weapons and Equipment have special features, called Traits.

That's why Comms Equipment is listed where it is. Traits are at the start of the section.