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Tactical Terminators. Start them at 30pts with a power sword and a 4+ Inv, two upgrade guns per five models, power fists as a five point upgrade. Bring Storm Bolters to Assault 3.

Burnas as a special weapon option for Boyz mobs.

Nobz squad made same point cost as a Boyz nob.

Can we just nerf the current GW Bling to be in line with all the other mediocre units?

If we raise the power levels of everything then we are going to have more Alpha strike issues.

 Desubot wrote:
Can we just nerf the current GW Bling to be in line with all the other mediocre units?

If we raise the power levels of everything then we are going to have more Alpha strike issues.

Probably. The pacing of the game would probably be better if everything was just a little less "deadly" and you didn't lose 75% of your models in 5 turns.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Can we just nerf the current GW Bling to be in line with all the other mediocre units?

If we raise the power levels of everything then we are going to have more Alpha strike issues.

Probably. The pacing of the game would probably be better if everything was just a little less "deadly" and you didn't lose 75% of your models in 5 turns.

Like i would be fine with super killy units if the game was a alternating activation type game. where i move 1 unit, you move 1 unit, i shoot 1 unit, you shoot and so on. but that isnt going to happen. so it should be that they get toned the feth down so i dont blow up your entire army in 1 phase.

Where to balance to is a common source of argument on these boards.

I agree with Desu. Nerf the stupid stuff. Buff the terrible. Enjoy the middle.

Stuff like:
Cheese Serpent - 6" range when fired

Wraithlord - about right as is (*please* don't make them fast! It would kill their whole feel!)

Banshees - No Overwatch, maybe? Perhaps just they charge in *before* overwatch is declared (spoiling overwatch if successful)? Alternately, may charge after running (not both buffs, though)

A surprising corpus of the game is on about the same level. But we generally see the biggest offenders (for SM, that's Grav, Bikes, ICs, and Grav Bikes).

Completely change possessed they have absolutely no purpose and are even worse than C'Tan.

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
Completely change possessed they have absolutely no purpose and are even worse than C'Tan.

Yeah, possessed are a great example of what this thread is all about. It's tough to balance a game for competitive settings - even fairly useful units will get totally sidelined if they are marginally worse than other options. But 40k is filled with really terrible units like Possessed that gimp your army even in casual games. They're cool models, and I want to use them, but they're just going to get wiped off the board before they even get into combat That sucks even in a beer and prezels context.

Does the Banshees' Initiative reduction affect the chance of being swept/sweeping in close combat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems to me that their usefulness depends somewhat on the answer to this question, which is not clear to me.

For sweeping, barely. Usually, it'll go from an almost-always to an always against Marines. Or from a 35/36 to a 36/36 chance against a lot of armies. If they have an Exarch and roll a 1, any Tau/Necron/Ork unit needs a 6.

For being swept, if they lose combat *when they charge*, not being swept isn't a huge game changer.

There are many reasons we don't see them much.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Doomrider should be in the next Daemonkin dex devoted to Slaanesh.

yes!

 Filch wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Doomrider should be in the next Daemonkin dex devoted to Slaanesh.

yes!

All my money right now

A way to fix possessed are either give them CSM squads options and a second roll on the mutations , or a point decrease..
Maybe give them rending in melee and shooting?, of course give them a bolt pistol first...

 morganfreeman wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Tacticals worth their weight and Rhinos that don't die like so much chaff in the wind and I'd be happy.

For 35 points rhinos bloody well better die like chaff in the wind. That's insanely cheap for what they do. :[

What do they do? I've rarely seen them in most games and outside of small arms fire, they die to anything even remotely above S4.

Basically they protect your marines whilst making them much faster. Considering the price of marines themselves, 35 points is a pretty solid investment to make them significantly faster, soak some fire, and spare the lads a few wounds.

If they survive that role and drop off their cargo? Then they're a dirt cheap and fairly fast objective camper who, if the enemy takes the time to shoot to death, has just made its points back by saving something else. They can also tank shock, for what it's worth!

I wish that were so, but again, I rarely see them in play. That 35 points is often spent better on more firepower, heck, I think even the basic Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter is better than a standard Rhino. In a world of so much mass S6+ shots, 35 points is a lot to spend for a temporary shield.

Besides, the Rhino might see more use, were it not for the much more effective Drop Pod.

 jreilly89 wrote:


I wish that were so, but again, I rarely see them in play. That 35 points is often spent better on more firepower, heck, I think even the basic Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter is better than a standard Rhino. In a world of so much mass S6+ shots, 35 points is a lot to spend for a temporary shield.

Besides, the Rhino might see more use, were it not for the much more effective Drop Pod.

Them being the exact same price doesn't help things. Every time you put rhinos in a list, you ask yourself: would this be better with drop pods? AV12 and a bump to the cost would be a welcome change - right now they just don't "feel" like an armored transport.