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The simplest solution is to ASK the PLAYER across the table from you if he wouldn't mind taking a softer list because you don't think you can beat a tournament Eldar list.

These discussions always rely on the assumption that anyone who owns any Eldar models MUST be playing a tournament list in a pick-up game. The assumption that it's completely and utterly impossible to own Eldar and play a list without Distort weapons and with fewer than sixty Scatbikes.


Which seems like a really dumb assumption. If 'it's possible to beat me handily with that Codex' was license to refuse to play against the Codex as a whole or try to force excessive handicaps on the Codex as a whole nobody would play the fething game.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

My response to all of this: No.

Why? I don't wanna.

Childish response.

Say I bought an all X Army. Now a new book comes out and X is universally seen as unfriendly, unhappy mess. So now I have to cater to everyone else's demands to not play X while still expecting to buy new rules should I want to play more than one person.


No other major game requires comp like GW. You're actively admitting the rules are bad by saying it's necessary and thus actively admitting to spending large sums of money and/or chunks of time to correct said deficiencies.

And only because "you wanna". Sure. But your view now means someone else can't have fun,either. I'd rather play another game where I'm actually purchasing the rules of engagement versus the "kinda-pseudo framework of engagement that kinda works if you 4+ it".

Not really. Your point, as originally stated, set forth opinions as though they were fact. I don't particularly enjoy trying to argue or debate with someone who expresses opinions as fact, especially when they are counter to my own. I find the best thing to do is to just disagree. I can play this game however I want, and, based upon the new rules, if I don't make up my own ways of dealing with what are gross discrepancies and inequalities I just won't be playing anymore.

Sometimes stating things in a way that other people think is childish is actually just honesty. It's something kids have, and adults lose. I don't agree with you, I am tired of people telling me that I should just deal with the crappy rules or leave, and I can do whatever I want. If you don't like that I could sum all this up in less than 10 words, I apologize. However, the point remains: People should play this game the way they want.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The simplest solution is to ASK the PLAYER across the table from you if he wouldn't mind taking a softer list because you don't think you can beat a tournament Eldar list.

These discussions always rely on the assumption that anyone who owns any Eldar models MUST be playing a tournament list in a pick-up game. The assumption that it's completely and utterly impossible to own Eldar and play a list without Distort weapons and with fewer than sixty Scatbikes.


Which seems like a really dumb assumption. If 'it's possible to beat me handily with that Codex' was license to refuse to play against the Codex as a whole or try to force excessive handicaps on the Codex as a whole nobody would play the fething game.

Some of us aren't talking about your local tables. I've always been speaking for a competitive environment. I think it goes without saying that for funsies games can do anything the participating players want to do. If you think reaver titans at 1 point are balanced, go right ahead and play them.

The issue comes up when we're actually trying to pull some form of skill based play out of the game, and we want a balanced metric to base it on. Some people say that's impossible, but our group disagrees. We find that certain veteran players can pull off alarmingly high win %'s, like in the 90's. Unfortunately, there are books like this one that make such a large balance disparity that even having good skill AND good dice luck may not be enough.

As for our group, for anything but funsies games, we've disallowed use of 7e eldar book until we see what some tourneys try out with it. (Specifically the ITC, who are good tourney-minded players that care about balance.)

 Happyjew wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Rule 4: Av15 Land Raiders and Monoliths.

Eh.

I like this, but would like to make an alternate proposal. All non-Eldar vehicles gain +3 AV to any facing that is AV 12+. This can bring the AV above 14.

And now chimeras look like this:

F: 15
S: 10
R: 10

Bharring wrote:
I tried to start a more serious discussion over in Proposed Rules...

Yeah that's where this stuff belongs.

 Melissia wrote:

Bharring wrote:
I tried to start a more serious discussion over in Proposed Rules...

Yeah that's where this stuff belongs.

Such a wonderfully helpful comment. You should read the notes in the "proposed rules" forum. It says that it's for changes in the rules. OP said that this has nothing to do with changing the rules. Although it's a similar topic, you point (if you're trying to make one) is off base.

 TheKbob wrote:
Continuing to do something, such as attempting to fix 40k, and expecting different results is the definition of madness.

Unless you can make it work for you and your group.

 TheKbob wrote:

Either play the game as written or accept that it's broken and play something else.

Why? Why do I have to 'play the game as written'? It's not about play this exactly or leave. It's not an either/or kbob. Gw don't have inquisitors out there, hunting down those deviants and heretics who bend/change/adapt rules to suit them and their groups.

 TheKbob wrote:

The game designers [sic] have decided that Eldar should have D Strength weaponry and 12 gargantuan creatures possible in one list.

Good for them. There'll be plenty groups who'll just laugh at the madness and shrug, not bother with that level of craziness and play the games they want to play instead, whether it's a 2nd ed home brew or a sixth/seventh mismatch with a 'no Flyers or super heeavies' house rule.

 TheKbob wrote:
. When you purchase rules, you're making an agreement to play by them.

No, you're not. You're just buying a book with some rules in it. There is no obligation to do anything with them you don't want to do. get some like minded folks together, play/adapt the game you want to play and have fun. There is no inquisitor out there enforcing some kind of bizarre adherence to 'the rules'.

 TheKbob wrote:

Assuming your fun is more important than someone else's fun is foolish.

Indeed, which is why you work together. It takes two to play a game.