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2015/07/21 03:04:41
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
Dont go all asbergers on him though, sounds like misunderstood how to use the apocalypse formation, something even people in this thread did with the break rule. I might have done the same mistake. Just tell him that he needs to bring hardcopy rules whenever you play him, "to avoid confusion".
Sounds like the Manticore usage might have been misunderstood by both the players, you can fire it for four turns, and each turn you fire it, you place d3 large blasts. Only ap4 makes it so-so for 170 points anyway, if you ask me.
Let the galaxy burn.
2015/07/21 09:54:43
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
IA *IMPERIAL GUARD volume 7 hammer of the emperor (FW book)
2x Infantry platoons made of 4x infantry squads with las cannons 270 each
1x infantry platoon with power axe sergents made of 4x infantry squads 250
Armoured battle group unbound detachment IA imperial guard hammer of the emperor volume 7
1x leman russ eradicator with dozer blades 100
1x leman russ battle tank with dozer blades 135
1x manitcor 130
IA volume 6 the anphelion project second edition D-99 elysian unbound detachment
1x vulture with 3x heavy bolters 120
1x vandetta 130
Inquistorial detachment Corteaz 100
I believe its unbound but i cant find anything on these IA books
Automatically Appended Next Post: I made i new thread in the army list section for this
Some of those point costs for the Russes look really, really out of date. It doesn't even look like the costs for the most recent FWABG list.
He could make that same army using just the basic IG book, but I guess he wants a bajillion special rules everywhere.
The next time you play him, ask to see all the sources for the rules. Either a hard copy on hand, or a clean PDF scan on a tablet. Something you can verify. If he's using FW lists, they should all be Second Edition, even the D-99 stuff if I remember correctly.
My advice to him would be to just play a basic IG codex force first to get all the basic rules down, then add new elements once the foundation is built.
*Edit* If I'm not going crazy, a vanilla russ is still 150pts, and the Eradicator is ~130pts, let alone the dozer blade costs. Manticores are 170pts off the top of my head, unless that's a FW variant using something other than the Storm Eagle rockets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/21 10:54:13
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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2015/07/21 11:01:22
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
Okay, first things first: those points costs are way off base. Looking at the updated IA rules I'm not finding one where the points costs for stuff in the codex isn't identical to the one in the IA book.
I.E, he's got around 200 extra points in vehicles here.
Second, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get no detachment benefits for an unbound detachment? I might be completely off base. I know you get no warlord trait , and I know you don't get for instance the Obsec troops from a CAD. So stuff like his "reinforcement rule" and other benefits I'm sure he's claiming might not apply.
Also...this is a perfectly reasonable guard cad. He's getting nearly every special thing he does here incorrect, maybe it's time to take a step back and figure out the basic rules before going for the forgeworld.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2015/07/21 11:35:13
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
IXLoiero95XI wrote: well he said he used these IA because they have cheaper stuff.
He also said this IA just came out?
If he's using IA:7, its not the most recent.
All of the most recent books for Guard will have 'Second Edition' in the title. The basic one with ABG is IA: Volume 1, Second Edition. The one with D-99 should be IA: Volume 4, Second Edition.
The hammer of the Emperor I can't find in the table of contents of any of the second edition books, but it could be in Volume 5, Second Edition, Siege of Vraks.
Either way, I think this guy needs to update to the second edition books.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
2015/07/21 11:54:45
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
I'm looking at IA: 1, 2nd Ed. That is in fact where all the rules he's using should be from.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2015/07/21 11:56:49
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
Makumba wrote: Dude probably lost anyway. Even if basic IG had that rule, they would still be worse then other armies. Cant regenerate d3 dudes when whole squads die in a single turn.
he basically wipped my full army out in 2 turns
Automatically Appended Next Post: That was because he launched 3 missiles from his Manticor turn one. Getting very lucky with the barrage flips.
Later we found out he could only fire one a turn.
I am now starting to think this is either a troll post, or you are painfully naïve. It's hard to believe someone older than 12 has the balls to make up random crap like that, and even less believable that people fall for it.
There is no "honest new player mistake" here, he is lying about everything. His point values are way off, he's using outdated or made-up rules, and there is no Hammer of the Emperor formation, detachment, or rules in any FWIA, and I have all of them.
Anphelion is volume 4, not 6. neither the first, nor second edition of the book have rules for Vendettas. The only place you find 130-point Vendettas is the 5th edition Imperial Guard codex, which he should not be using if he's bringing 6th edition codex units. The Vulture does not have a configuration that has three heavy bolters. It was 100+weapons in the 1st edition of the book (cheapest option two hellstrikes and two external fuel tanks for 20 points) and is 125+weapons in the 2nd edition.
Volume 7 is not "hammer of the emperor" or whatever. Volume 7 was Siege of Vraks III. Volume 7 is in a grey area on validity, since Vraks has been updated, but the Armoured Company list was not (and may not, since the vraks update summarizes the whole campaign so they may skip second editions of volumes 6 and 7). Assuming it is indeed a valid list to use, the Battle Tank is 160 points with dozers, the Eradicator is 170. Manticores ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL. The closest I can find a Manticore for 130 points is in the 1st edition of Imperial Armour Volume One, which was printed in 2007 and is almost a decade out of date. And even there it costs 135 points.
Your "buddy" is a rotten cheat and human garbage. I would never play him again or demand hard copies of everything. Alternatively, good troll, really got me riled for a minute, lol.
I recommend you
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/21 16:15:19
2015/07/21 15:57:42
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
On a side note, does that strike anyone else as a massively underwhelming rule for an apoc formation?
Like, you get 2-3D3 random guardsmen back per platoon in an apoc game with like, 10" mega blasts taking out 30 guardsmen in one shot? That is one weak sauce formation.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2015/07/21 16:23:08
Subject: Re:Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
Leman Russ Battletank with Doxer Blade: 160 points.
And the other prices look off too.
Your friend is a massive cheat. Stop playing till he/she/it sorts his/her/its army out and starts bringing an army that is not composed of made up points costs and made up formations.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
2015/07/21 16:28:41
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
IA *IMPERIAL GUARD volume 7 hammer of the emperor (FW book)
2x Infantry platoons made of 4x infantry squads with las cannons 270 each
1x infantry platoon with power axe sergents made of 4x infantry squads 250
Armoured battle group unbound detachment IA imperial guard hammer of the emperor volume 7
1x leman russ eradicator with dozer blades 100
1x leman russ battle tank with dozer blades 135
1x manitcor 130
IA volume 6 the anphelion project second edition D-99 elysian unbound detachment
1x vulture with 3x heavy bolters 120
1x vandetta 130
Inquistorial detachment Corteaz 100
I believe its unbound but i cant find anything on these IA books
Automatically Appended Next Post: I made i new thread in the army list section for this
2. Are his Vendettas and Vultures from IA 6 fliers? In the old IA 6, they were still skimmers. They are fliers now, per the Astra Militarum codex.
3. Also, you don't have to play this guy. Apocalypse army lists are for Apocalypse.
4. Breaks are scheduled breaks that Apoc players agree to, not the end of game turns, as has been mentioned. He shouldn't be getting that many IG back each turn.
Ask him to pick one up-to-date book and play with it next game.
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2015/07/21 16:40:47
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
aronthomas17 wrote:I think there is an apoc formation that allows d3 men to return to the formation
The rule is
During each scheduled break, all units from an 'Imperial Shield' Infantry Company
that have at least 1 model remaining have D3 of the casualties they have suffered
replaced (roll once for all affected units; no unit may not be increased beyond its
starting strength in this manner). Deploy the replacement models within unit
coherency of a surviving model from the unit, and more than 1" away from any other
models. Any models that cannot be placed because of these restrictions remain
casualties, though they may be replaced in a future break.
This is for the entire company, which includes the squad and three platoons, so a minimum of 80 models (5 CCS, 15PCS, 60PIS). They get D3 of those back a couple of times over the course of the game. If you read above, the piece of crap this guy was playing was rolling 9D3 every turn.
the_scotsman wrote:On a side note, does that strike anyone else as a massively underwhelming rule for an apoc formation?
Like, you get 2-3D3 random guardsmen back per platoon in an apoc game with like, 10" mega blasts taking out 30 guardsmen in one shot? That is one weak sauce formation.
Apocalypse formations were ones you paid a tax on top of bringing the models in order to get underwhelming special rules. Now we have regular formations that cost nothing, have great rules, and in fact give you extra free models.
2015/07/21 17:50:04
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
Lol. I mean, I have had similar stuff people tried to pull on me with stuff like Stronghold Assault (guy thought he got 90 point 14/14/14 Battlecannon turrets that fired normally and brought like 10 to a 2k game) but to be fair that was him missing a rule you have to go digging in the main brb to find.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2015/07/22 02:29:24
Subject: Identifying Astra Militarum special rule/formation?
Bobthehero wrote: Did he roll 3d3 for his manticore rolls or did he got lucky and rolled a 3 on the d3?
He got lucky and rolled a 3 on the D3 two out of the three Manticor rockets he fired. How he did it was, he just fired a standard rocket, rolled for scatter and all that. Once we had determined the final position of the template he rolled a D3, if he got a 1 we resolved that one blast and then moved on but if he rolled a 2 or 3 he done 1 or 2 extra flips of the large blast template. It was those flips that were extremely lucky on all three shots. The first shot direct hit my Fire Warriors wiping them out, he rolled 2 extra flips and flipped directly left and right wiping our a pathfinder unit and hitting my Riptide. The second missile he shot ( this is all in the first turn BTW) direct hit my Hammerhead and flipped once. That flip scattered perfectly onto another pathfinder unit next to it. He stunned my tank and killed those Pathfinders. His third shot for the turn direct hit my Hammerhead carrying Longstrike, he rolled 2 extra flips. One flip went left onto my third and last pathfinder unit and the other was a direct hit which he placed back on the Hammerhead. He kill most of the pathfinders and stunned the Hammerhead.
That baically put me out of commission turn one lol. Even though he did it wrong he was still very lucky with his flips and scatters.
Makumba wrote: Dude probably lost anyway. Even if basic IG had that rule, they would still be worse then other armies. Cant regenerate d3 dudes when whole squads die in a single turn.
he basically wipped my full army out in 2 turns
Automatically Appended Next Post: That was because he launched 3 missiles from his Manticor turn one. Getting very lucky with the barrage flips.
Later we found out he could only fire one a turn.
I am now starting to think this is either a troll post, or you are painfully naïve. It's hard to believe someone older than 12 has the balls to make up random crap like that, and even less believable that people fall for it.
There is no "honest new player mistake" here, he is lying about everything. His point values are way off, he's using outdated or made-up rules, and there is no Hammer of the Emperor formation, detachment, or rules in any FWIA, and I have all of them.
Anphelion is volume 4, not 6. neither the first, nor second edition of the book have rules for Vendettas. The only place you find 130-point Vendettas is the 5th edition Imperial Guard codex, which he should not be using if he's bringing 6th edition codex units. The Vulture does not have a configuration that has three heavy bolters. It was 100+weapons in the 1st edition of the book (cheapest option two hellstrikes and two external fuel tanks for 20 points) and is 125+weapons in the 2nd edition.
Volume 7 is not "hammer of the emperor" or whatever. Volume 7 was Siege of Vraks III. Volume 7 is in a grey area on validity, since Vraks has been updated, but the Armoured Company list was not (and may not, since the vraks update summarizes the whole campaign so they may skip second editions of volumes 6 and 7). Assuming it is indeed a valid list to use, the Battle Tank is 160 points with dozers, the Eradicator is 170. Manticores ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL. The closest I can find a Manticore for 130 points is in the 1st edition of Imperial Armour Volume One, which was printed in 2007 and is almost a decade out of date. And even there it costs 135 points.
Your "buddy" is a rotten cheat and human garbage. I would never play him again or demand hard copies of everything. Alternatively, good troll, really got me riled for a minute, lol.
I recommend you
I assure you I'm not trolling. this actually happened, and normal I pick up on rules that are played wrong with my regular opponents. But this being the first time I played him and Astra Militarum/IA books, I had never seen the rules before and didn't know how it worked. But he assured me he know his rules and I just trusted him. Because it was the first time I met him I didn't want to start checking his codex every 5 seconds and and assuming some things were wrong. I definitely got the vibe that AM shouldn't be that powerful.
Bottom line is, I didn't want to look like a jerk who was annoy because I was getting raped.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/22 02:44:15
You need to stop playing this guy. He's either TFG, cretinously stupid, or both. This guy is two steps from just making up his own rules and characters without telling you. Before you know it he'll have a special Basilisk that gets Ignores Cover and Rending and never scatters with d6 shots per turn or something.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/22 02:54:11
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