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A bizarre statement to come out with to be sure but pretty stupid. Most of the people (in my experience at least) who play the wargames couldn't be further away from "warmongering" lol.

 Frazzled wrote:

1. Your response should be..wait you're trying to insult the warmonger? "Thats not very smart" THEN
2. Employ the whippy sticks of ultimate ouchy. They will run screaming from your senseless warmongering. It what they are for.

I don't know what exalting posts actually does but I had to exalt this for the use of whippy sticks of ultimate ouchy


To the original post you could reply by saying that anyone who is interested in sports is obviously also a warmonger. After all it feeds our animalistic need to compete for resources and emphasises the naturalistic survival of the fittest.

Or you could just ignore the comment. Whatever.

What do they spend there time doing, the whole waste of time and money argument applies to alot of things.

Anyway lol I think my friend had best explanation for girlfriend would you rather me spending the money down the pub/club getting home at x am or at home painting etc with the odd pint?

I think saying you are a Warmonger is going a bit far.

But there are kinda creepy aspects to it.

In the 1980s, one of the games I often played was a Modern Microarmor game from Game Designers' Workshop (GDW). I think the game was called Task Force.... but....

In it, we often fought various scenarios that would be pretty accurate depictions of what would really happen in a WWIII that began in Eastern Europe, with the Warsaw Pact coming across the Bundeswehr and NATO in West Germany.

During one game, it suddenly struck me that this was intensely creepy.

Later, during a discussion with a professor who knew Tolkien, we got off on that subject, and he said Tolkien probably would have been tremendously disapproving of actual "Wargames" (as opposed to "Toy Soldiers" - Like Britains' Toy Soldiers made in the late-1800s and early-1900s).

It was a pretty complex issue.

There is some amount of "Glorification of War" involved in wargaming, or miniatures games that are about fighting and war.

But the whole genre of gaming has become so complicated (different than "complex") that it is hard to untangle something like that.

I am sure that many people wish to simply dismiss all possibility of this off-hand, and claim that any such accusations are BS. Some probably are BS (such as a military officer using a miniature simulation as a training exercise - then, the accusation is wholly BS, as it is directly involved with a job that is about the minimization of conflict should it be called for).

But it is neither so straightforward that it can be simply dismissed, nor so easily labeled as that.

MB

Most of the popular tt war games are fictionalized to the extent that they are cartoonish. I wouldn't consider anyone a "warmonger" for playing 40k or WMH anymore than I would a kid watching Voltron.

Perhaps historicals are a bump up in realism, but every historicals player I've ever met was just a history nerd.

Warmonger should be a term reserved for actual warlords making actual war...

Talk about 1st person shooter games... Some of those are quite realistic and lessens the treshold for shooting someone for a few of the players I think...

Shouting at a neckbeard across a gaming table over your Chaplains rerolls against his plastic elves.... Do not.

Anyone else start thinking of the ol "Somebody, Anybody Start a War" running cadence when reading this topic?

What the feth is liberal arts studies?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

Stuff that gets you nowhere? What you refer to is the backbone of human civilization and culture!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

Stuff that gets you nowhere? What you refer to is the backbone of human civilization and culture!

Yeah, but a liberal arts degree is less marketable than a science or business degree, therefore making it "useless" and a waste of time.

Never mind a lot of the entertainment we enjoy is brought to us by those very same "nowhere in life" liberal arts majors.

Considering this entire hobby is pretty much composed of the arts (painting, sculpting, writing, history, etc), you seem to have picked the wrong hobby to like. Maybe you just like it because of GW's financial statements or calculating the tensile strength of plastic swords.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

Stuff that gets you nowhere? What you refer to is the backbone of human civilization and culture!

Yeah, but a liberal arts degree is less marketable than a science or business degree, therefore making it "useless" and a waste of time.

Never mind a lot of the entertainment we enjoy is brought to us by those very same "nowhere in life" liberal arts majors.

The biggest problem with Liberal Arts majors is that there are way more graduates than there are jobs for them. So the odds for these graduates is that they did indeed waste their time, relative to other degrees which have demand being greater than supply.

We basically have the situation where we have 10 graduates but only 2 jobs.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

Stuff that gets you nowhere? What you refer to is the backbone of human civilization and culture!

Yeah, but a liberal arts degree is less marketable than a science or business degree, therefore making it "useless" and a waste of time.

Never mind a lot of the entertainment we enjoy is brought to us by those very same "nowhere in life" liberal arts majors.

The biggest problem with Liberal Arts majors is that there are way more graduates than there are jobs for them. So the odds for these graduates is that they did indeed waste their time, relative to other degrees which have demand being greater than supply.

We basically have the situation where we have 10 graduates but only 2 jobs.

Except that canard is simply not true: http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

Math majors have higher unemployment rates than language studies majors.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

Its the degree you get while working at Starbucks. Once you graduate you get to work for...Starbucks.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

Stuff that gets you nowhere? What you refer to is the backbone of human civilization and culture!

Yeah, but a liberal arts degree is less marketable than a science or business degree, therefore making it "useless" and a waste of time.

Never mind a lot of the entertainment we enjoy is brought to us by those very same "nowhere in life" liberal arts majors.

The biggest problem with Liberal Arts majors is that there are way more graduates than there are jobs for them. So the odds for these graduates is that they did indeed waste their time, relative to other degrees which have demand being greater than supply.

We basically have the situation where we have 10 graduates but only 2 jobs.

Except that canard is simply not true: http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

Math majors have higher unemployment rates than language studies majors.

I would say that is because Language Studies is an exception as it is useful as a translator. Gender Studies, 16th Century Artwork, etc... not so much.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

Its the degree you get while working at Starbucks. Once you graduate you get to work for...Starbucks.

Or you become a teacher and spend your life educating young minds and enjoying your summers at the beach or painting miniatures and laughing at people who are so delusional to think they have more "real" jobs that give them high stress levels.

Math majors have higher unemployment rates than language studies majors.

Keep believing that.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

In general, I just referred to everyone studying artsy-fartsy stuff that gets you nowhere in life. Stuff like language majors, culture studies, history studies, gender studies etc.

Stuff that gets you nowhere? What you refer to is the backbone of human civilization and culture!

Yeah, but a liberal arts degree is less marketable than a science or business degree, therefore making it "useless" and a waste of time.

Never mind a lot of the entertainment we enjoy is brought to us by those very same "nowhere in life" liberal arts majors.

The biggest problem with Liberal Arts majors is that there are way more graduates than there are jobs for them. So the odds for these graduates is that they did indeed waste their time, relative to other degrees which have demand being greater than supply.

We basically have the situation where we have 10 graduates but only 2 jobs.

Except that canard is simply not true: http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

Math majors have higher unemployment rates than language studies majors.

I would say that is because Language Studies is an exception as it is useful as a translator. Gender Studies, 16th Century Artwork, etc... not so much.

Didn't bother to actually look at the statistics, did you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

Math majors have higher unemployment rates than language studies majors.

Keep believing that.

One would think someone extolling the virtues of the hard sciences would be able to read basic statistical studies...

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

Its the degree you get while working at Starbucks. Once you graduate you get to work for...Starbucks.

Or you become a teacher and spend your life educating young minds and enjoying your summers at the beach or painting miniatures and laughing at people who are so delusional to think they have more "real" jobs that give them high stress levels.

1. I hate kids like the white hot heat of a thousand sons. Thats not going to happen.
2. You have to have a teaching degree and certification for that. Unless you have that your argument is incorrect.

I did. Art is at 13.2% unemployment. Math is only 6.5%. Cultures and Civilization is 12%.

One would think someone extolling the virtues of the hard sciences would be able to read basic statistical studies...

Mmm starting salary of grad degree in mathmatics, vs. starting salary of grad degree in "blah blah" Studies. Yea I'll take that.
oops Grey beat me.

EDIT: to be fair I am being overly harsh. If you do well (top 10% like every other degree) in liberal arts you have a bright future.
Except for "blah blah" studies. Forget those guys.

 sebster wrote:
There are some people out there with some extraordinarily stupid worldviews. And generally these worldviews filter in to every part of their lives. I'm guessing the idiot in this case is a pacifist who's gone way too far, and when he heard about your wargaming he just had to make the connection to drag it back to his all-encompassing worldview about peace and war, and if that meant turning you in to a bad guy based on nothing, well then so be it.

People on dakka may have noticed I quite like to argue... and through my uni days I took on a whole lot of idiots like this guy. I can't think of one that was as comically ridiculous as the one mentioned by the OP, but I've met lunatics about all kind of political beliefs and every other social issue I can think of. And I regret engaging every single one of them. Total waste of time.

I think we're all used to arguing with people who have no interest in understanding another point of view (and if you aren't just hang around dakka for a while), but this is something different. They aren't just forceful in their ideas, but so wrapped up in their ideas as part of their personal identity that any engagement moves from anger to irrational meltdown in minutes.

Just walk away. Most of these people grow up, and start thinking more sensible things. And the ones that don't you probably will quickly disappear from your social circles. Unless they're family, then you're fethed.

This is pretty good advice in general.

It's a specific version of a great point, which is to keep in mind that people do things for their own reasons, and they might not have the same reasons as you. Never assume that a person you are dealing with has the same motivations, assumptions, values, or priorities you have.

But yes, there are plenty of people that will shoehorn their own particular cause into nearly every social interaction. Just get out of their way when they do that.

In general, when somebody responds in a bizarre and negative way wy to something I say, especially if they make a really off base assumption, I usually just respond with a flat "Not really" and then I change the subject.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
One would think someone extolling the virtues of the hard sciences would be able to read basic statistical studies...

I read this:

Not all the numbers are statistically significant -- they are generated from varying survey data -- use your best judgement

And decided that between small sample size and reporting bias, this is no better than a wild guess.

Vocational majors will pretty obviously lead to more concrete job prospects, while liberal arts is probably better for people that are more generalists, or have family connections or plans for grad school.

I was a Philosophy major, which doesn't lead to any specific career, but was a great prep for law school. Even now, my ability to think through complex issues is sharper because of my schooling.

 Frazzled wrote:

2. You have to have a teaching degree and certification for that. Unless you have that your argument is incorrect.

Maybe for K-6 or so, you'd need a "teaching degree" but here in the state of Washington, I have to pass a "basic" test, then get an endorsement in whatever fields I want to be able to teach here in order to teach. Also here in Washington, middle school teachers are a "grey" area, where they can either have an education degree, plus requisite licenses, OR they can have a "subject matter" degree, plus licenses. At the high school level, where I am trying to go, a teacher needs a subject matter degree, plus endorsements/licensing.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the feth is liberal arts studies?

Its the degree you get while working at Starbucks. Once you graduate you get to work for...Starbucks.

Or you become a teacher and spend your life educating young minds and enjoying your summers at the beach or painting miniatures and laughing at people who are so delusional to think they have more "real" jobs that give them high stress levels.

1. I hate kids like the white hot heat of a thousand sons. Thats not going to happen.
2. You have to have a teaching degree and certification for that. Unless you have that your argument is incorrect.

Actually, strangely, you don't need certification or a teaching degree to teach at the college level.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Actually, strangely, you don't need certification or a teaching degree to teach at the college level.

And that sometimes becomes PAINFULLY obvious.

If it were me I woulda just shrugged and agreed. But thats just me.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Actually, strangely, you don't need certification or a teaching degree to teach at the college level.

And that sometimes becomes PAINFULLY obvious.

Well thats news to me. Though not saying anyone without credentials are horrible teachers but with the amount money being dumped to go to college + you would figure accredited teachers would be a big deal. (There is knowing your field, and then there is the ablity to teach it yaknow?)

 Grey Templar wrote:
I did. Art is at 13.2% unemployment. Math is only 6.5%. Cultures and Civilization is 12%.

My point was that it isn't so black and white to say that liberal art degrees automatically lead to unemployment in their chosen field at a rate higher than sciences as your claim seemed to indicate. It varies with the specific field. (Animal studies is 14.7% for example).

Me personally I would have said something like "But our lord and savior Khorne needs more skulls... for his skull throne!"