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What if it can't be fixed without dramatically reducing the horsepower/fuel efficiency/cost of the vehicle?

Also, in terms of financial punishment, VW is getting pounded hard.

20% drop in shares, worth approximately 16 billion euros.

And facing EPA fines somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 billion dollars.

VW's CEO just made a dumb mistake, he admitted to forgery. By doing so, you fully admit that it wasn't an accident (as unlikely as it would be) and sharecolders will leave the ship. He should be fired / demoted immediately as he clearly doesn't know how to run a company in times of crisis.

its beginning to sound like VW will be better off pulling out of the US and not paying any fine rather than handing over a huge sum to the government and then having lots and lots of smaller private court cases from all the people who have bought the cars

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
its beginning to sound like VW will be better off pulling out of the US and not paying any fine rather than handing over a huge sum to the government and then having lots and lots of smaller private court cases from all the people who have bought the cars

I Severly doupt a company can just "Pull Out" a country

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
its beginning to sound like VW will be better off pulling out of the US and not paying any fine rather than handing over a huge sum to the government and then having lots and lots of smaller private court cases from all the people who have bought the cars

You cannot pull out of a country all of a sudden. Big companies are heavily intertwined internationally and the US / EU market are not strictly seperated.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
its beginning to sound like VW will be better off pulling out of the US and not paying any fine rather than handing over a huge sum to the government and then having lots and lots of smaller private court cases from all the people who have bought the cars

You cannot pull out of a country all of a sudden. Big companies are heavily intertwined internationally and the US / EU market are not strictly seperated.

Not only, Europe is gonna find out. If you think they are gonna welcome VW with open arms..........

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
its beginning to sound like VW will be better off pulling out of the US and not paying any fine rather than handing over a huge sum to the government and then having lots and lots of smaller private court cases from all the people who have bought the cars

I Severly doupt a company can just "Pull Out" a country

A country can only typically go after the assets in said country. If the costs of the fines are higher than the outlay in the country and expected cash flows, watch 'em.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
its beginning to sound like VW will be better off pulling out of the US and not paying any fine rather than handing over a huge sum to the government and then having lots and lots of smaller private court cases from all the people who have bought the cars

You cannot pull out of a country all of a sudden. Big companies are heavily intertwined internationally and the US / EU market are not strictly seperated.

Not only, Europe is gonna find out. If you think they are gonna welcome VW with open arms..........

Europe has a different methodolgy for enviro. they are more concerned with particulates.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/21/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-sends-shares-in-global-carmakers-reeling

Apparently this could just be the tip of the iceberg. It could be industry wide.
I wonder if other companies are doing the same things and when will happen to them.
The scale of fines and the recall looks to me to be very heavy handed and may have root in protectionism rather than justice.

In Europe emissions are tested by a different method and the VW concealment technology wouldn't work over here.

Why am I not surprised Audi is the other one...

 Frazzled wrote:
Eliminate their corporate charters in the US.

I wonder how much fancy footwork will result if the list of other companies believed to be doing this sort of thing include General Motors or Ford.

Surprised they didn't claim it was a software error. I mean, in for a penny (fraud-wise), in for a pound, right?

 Ouze wrote:
Surprised they didn't claim it was a software error. I mean, in for a penny (fraud-wise), in for a pound, right?

Management was caught off guard.
The move against Volkswagen and Audi was sudden and heavy, this was planned well ahead of time.
The punishment was unveiled at the same time as the allegation, which is unusual as a justice procedure.

I wonder who is making a killing short sharing on VW and Audi.

I knew few people who've been caught with VW lemons, and the company has been awful in resolving the issues in each case. So this news makes me happy, in a way.

happened to me. VW are not great cars
Caddillacs for life yo

You own an older Cadillac. Newer Cadillacs are absolute gak. A buddy of mine is a mechanic for one of the largest dealers in Michigan and he has worked on several. Take it from him, he says they are some of the worst junkers out there

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
happened to me. VW are not great cars
Caddillacs for life yo

Tesla, son. Because...environment of course. Of course.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
happened to me. VW are not great cars
Caddillacs for life yo

Tesla, son. Because...environment of course. Of course.

If I am paying over 60,000 for a car its going to be Hellcat because...name!

Damn EPA and their rules. My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!

Cant say I have a very strong feeling one way or another about this, but then again, I think the EPAs anti-diesel stance and overly strict standards placed on diesel engines are ridiculous to begin with.

 Sigvatr wrote:
VW's CEO just made a dumb mistake, he admitted to forgery. By doing so, you fully admit that it wasn't an accident (as unlikely as it would be) and sharecolders will leave the ship. He should be fired / demoted immediately as he clearly doesn't know how to run a company in times of crisis.

By which you mean hes honest?

 Frazzled wrote:
Why am I not surprised Audi is the other one...

Because theyre essentially the same company?

chaos0xomega wrote:


By which you mean hes honest?

Yes. Honestly at all cost is stupid. His "honesty" was a crucial mistake that will most likely cost hundreds of jobs.

Because theyre essentially the same company?

Really?

"Audi has been a majority owned (99.55%) subsidiary of Volkswagen Group since 1966, following a phased purchase of Audi AG's predecessor, Auto Union, from Daimler-Benz."

Thanks! I didn't know that.

NP, I only found out yesterday myself ;P

 Sigvatr wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
happened to me. VW are not great cars
Caddillacs for life yo

Tesla, son. Because...environment of course. Of course.

Except, until we change where are electricity comes from(Namely Coal and other fossil fuels) its just s dirty of a car.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Except, until we change where are electricity comes from(Namely Coal and other fossil fuels) its just s dirty of a car.

You might have missed the...subtle...hint of humor in the previous post. Noone drives a Tesla because it's better for the environment. First of all, it would be nonsense as the amount of Tesla drivers is so tiny that its overall impact on the environment is zero. Secondly, people buy a Tesla because of two reasons:

a) the amazing feeling driving it and...

b) to brag.

Overall, yes, as long as hypocrits / people refuse to accept nuclear energy as the best way to produce energy, we will have to rely on "dirty" means of energy production. I say "hypocrits" as a German...or moreso a person living in Germany, a country that abolished nuclear power for "safety" reasons in case of a nuclear fallout while EVERYWHERE AROUND GERMANY countries still use those.

 Sigvatr wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


By which you mean hes honest?

Yes. Honestly at all cost is stupid. His "honesty" was a crucial mistake that will most likely cost hundreds of jobs.

I'd have thought he should be getting fired for friggin' cheating the system, but I'm sure that's just him doing his job and getting thousands of us plebeians employed, right?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


By which you mean hes honest?

Yes. Honestly at all cost is stupid. His "honesty" was a crucial mistake that will most likely cost hundreds of jobs.

I'd have thought he should be getting fired for friggin' cheating the system, but I'm sure that's just him doing his job and getting thousands of us plebeians employed, right?

Yes. If you lead a company, your decisions must always be for the good of the company. Hands down. Cheating the system was a stupid idea, of course, as the backlash is much larger than the outcome and should be reason alone for him to be retired. Telling the truth, however, and not saying that it was a mistake is downright idiotic. You not only show that you're a poor leader, you also heavily hurt your entire company and, ultimatively, it's not the management that will have to take the fall, it's the lower employees that will lose their jobs. You are honest to people you owe something to. Your family, your friends. Honest to the public? Idiotic and irresponsible. People WANT to be lied to. If you want to be honest at all cost, then by all means, do so, but stay away from any job that involves responsibility for other people. The (now) former CEO is an extremely poor leader and will never see himself in a similar position ever again - and rightfully so.

The right thing to do after it's been discovered would have been to say that it's an error in the software. Boom. You'd still be fined and you'd still be shamed, but it's a mistake, not a scam. Shareholders do not trust a company that openly admits to cheat on them / their trust. Good for me, I got shares on similar companies and they recently saw a very good boost. USA! USA! USA!

Well, what a disgrace!

At first I thought this was just another example of the US auto industry finding a way to spank foreign competitors, like with the Audi self-acceleration problem, but in fact the company definitely was cheating.

Volkswagen has lost 1/3 of its share price, apparently. I am not surprised.

Yet another case of a major company deliberately cheating.