vipoid wrote:
Am I right in thinking models can still LoS stomp wounds?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


What's this nonsense?

Stomp doesn't need wound allocation rules because it wounds models, not units.

col_impact wrote:


Do you see the word 'wound' anywhere in the Stomp rules? The models under the blast markers suffer a hit, just like the models under a Template do.

 Dramagod2 wrote:
The MODEL suffers the hit, not the unit.

col_impact wrote:The specific rules of Stomp only put hits on models, exactly like a Template does. However, templates have their wounds allocated in the Shooting Sequence.

Stomp is an Attack made while engaged in combat and executed at an Initiative Step and as such it follows the Fight Sub-phase rules. Those rules indicate that Attacks at Initiative steps have their wounds allocated. I can find no reason why Stomp Attacks would not have their wounds allocated per the Fight Sub-phase rules. The Stomp rules themselves state "Stomp attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 1 step" and the Fight sub-phase contains rules for allocating wounds and applying saving throws. This brings up another issue. The Stomp rules themselves make no mention of what saving throws are allowed to be taken against a Stomp Attack. If we follow the Fight Sub-phase rules, models get armor, invul, but not cover saves.

vipoid wrote:Am I right in thinking models can still LoS stomp wounds?

 Grizzyzz wrote:

col_impact wrote:The specific rules of Stomp only put hits on models, exactly like a Template does. However, templates have their wounds allocated in the Shooting Sequence.

Stomp is an Attack made while engaged in combat and executed at an Initiative Step and as such it follows the Fight Sub-phase rules. Those rules indicate that Attacks at Initiative steps have their wounds allocated. I can find no reason why Stomp Attacks would not have their wounds allocated per the Fight Sub-phase rules. The Stomp rules themselves state "Stomp attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 1 step" and the Fight sub-phase contains rules for allocating wounds and applying saving throws. This brings up another issue. The Stomp rules themselves make no mention of what saving throws are allowed to be taken against a Stomp Attack. If we follow the Fight Sub-phase rules, models get armor, invul, but not cover saves.

The stomp table does tho.. as someone posted. 1 dodge lucky break. 2-5 a s6 ap4 wound.. so you would get all your saves a 6 is remove as a casualty.. as this does not allocate a wound no saves are taken. its removed.

col_impact wrote:

The Stomp table mentions "hit" and not "wound".

Spoiler:

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

So the Stomp rules have no wound allocation in the Stomp rules themselves. However, I see no reason why the Fight Sub-phase wound allocation rules would not be in effect since the Stomp rules indicate Stomps are resolved using those rules.

Models are permitted to take saves against shooting attacks (armor, invul, cover) in the shooting phase and close combat attacks (armor and invul) in the Fight Sub-phase. Special attacks specify what kind of saves can be taken against them. Stomp attacks make no mention of what saves are applicable. If it's a close combat attack, then we know armor and invul saves can be taken.

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

The Stomp table mentions "hit" and not "wound".

Spoiler:

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

So the Stomp rules have no wound allocation in the Stomp rules themselves. However, I see no reason why the Fight Sub-phase wound allocation rules would not be in effect since the Stomp rules indicate Stomps are resolved using those rules.

Models are permitted to take saves against shooting attacks (armor, invul, cover) in the shooting phase and close combat attacks (armor and invul) in the Fight Sub-phase. Special attacks specify what kind of saves can be taken against them. Stomp attacks make no mention of what saves are applicable. If it's a close combat attack, then we know armor and invul saves can be taken.

Sorry, that doesn't fly, and Ignores everything stated in this rule, while putting your opinion in place of actual written rules

It is never stated to be a Melee Attack any more than a Shooting Attack. This allows the Attacks to hit Engaged models as well as models outside its Engagement.

The models take the hit, not the units, with Stomp Attacks. Review how Blast and Template USRs are written, they put Hits on units based on the number of models underneath. This is very different to Stomp's rules.

If the model takes the hit, process it as described, which is Str 6, AP4. T 3 models will be ID'd, and only 3+ or better Armour Saves are allowed, while Cover and Invulnerability Saves are unaffected. If Unsaved, the model loses a Wound.

The unit is not involved, so differentiating between models in the unit to allocate the Wounds to is beyond the scope of the instructions. As to LOS!, that is allowed in Assault and not limited to Melee, so as soon as the Str 6 makes a successful Wound, but before the Save attempt is made, the attempt to reallocate it can be made.

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

Wound allocation is pretty simple - every model takes a str 6 ap4 hit on a 2-5. on a 1, there's no effect, and on a 6, all die.

So, of 6 boyz, 5 with shootas and one with a big shoota, and a nob get stomped, and it's a 2-5 result, each boy and the nob take a hit. Resolve special model's hits on their own (unique weapons, characters, etc).

So, roll for the 5 shoota boyz, roll once for the big shoota boy, and once for the nob, and see who gets wounded.

col_impact wrote:
I am not saying it's a Melee Attack and nowhere am I providing my opinion over rules. There just is no wound allocation in the Stomp rules themselves.

col_impact wrote:
Models take the hit and not the unit themselves with regards to Template attacks. Just consider a Template that overshoots and hits models that aren't in the target unit. A hit is generated on those models just the same. And the shooting rules allocate the wounds generated by Template hits.

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I am not saying it's a Melee Attack and nowhere am I providing my opinion over rules. There just is no wound allocation in the Stomp rules themselves.

And yet, the rules for Melee Attacks on a unit are all the that the Fight Sub-Phase addresses, and that leads to part of the problem.

Charistoph wrote:
Fair point about the Template USR, I misremembered that one. Where does it say to allocate the Wounds by the shooting rules in Template hits?

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I am not saying it's a Melee Attack and nowhere am I providing my opinion over rules. There just is no wound allocation in the Stomp rules themselves.

And yet, the rules for Melee Attacks on a unit are all the that the Fight Sub-Phase addresses, and that leads to part of the problem.

The Fight Sub-phase addresses 'Attacks at Intiative steps'. Stomp Attacks are Attacks that happen at Initiative steps in addition to the normal Attacks.

col_impact wrote:
Also, what set of rules are we using when we convert Stomp hits to wounds? Where is the permission to make a Roll To Wound roll against toughness granted for Stomps? In the Shooting Sequence or the Fight Sub-phase? If I am not mistaken, the permission to take a To Wound roll is only granted in either the Shooting Sequence or the Fight Sub-phase. So which of these grants the Roll To Wound for Stomps?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Charistoph wrote:
Fair point about the Template USR, I misremembered that one. Where does it say to allocate the Wounds by the shooting rules in Template hits?

Template weapons are identified as shooting weapons and so use the Shooting Sequence, which includes wound allocation.

Spoiler:

Range
If the weapon’s range contains a ‘-’, it is (unless otherwise stated) a Melee weapon. If it contains a number, or ‘Template’ or ‘Hellstorm’, it is a shooting weapon.

Charistoph wrote:


as the General Principles I quoted already addresses the issue for both Stomp and Templates, and neither really start to conflict with it, over all.

The only time a USR rule actually states to use anything else is either Precision Shot/Strike or Barrage.

And just to help you out, here is what I'm saying:

Hits caused by templates are applied to the unit in general unless the rule specifically states the Wound only applies to the models covered. Wound Allocation is handled via the Phase as normal until otherwise directed. Stomp does not direct it otherwise, so the nearest model will still go through the Wound process by a Str 6 AP 4 as if it was hit by a Chaplain. The 6 Result and the Vehicle Hits are a slightly different story.

col_impact wrote:Where in the BRB are you quoting General Principles from?

Also, we are agreed that Wound Allocation is handled via the Phase as normal so we use the Fight Sub-phase rules for wound allocation.

This means that Stomps on a roll of 2-5 will not affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with. Stomps with a roll of 6 can still affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

Grizzyzz wrote:That is all great and dandy but consider the following.. same unit.. so ignore half this debate

Your first stomp and 2nd roll 1s. Now your third stomp which is say 4" away from your base and over the IC that you wanted to take out rolls a 6.

Even though in stomp rules it says models under the blast take the are removed.. your saying nope.. it's still comes from the closest model.

I disagree with that, I think in general we are all splitting hairs for arguments sake here... I have never tried stomping out of combat but if a blast can scatter onto combat and wound.. I view this similarly..

Also someone asked about majority toughness etc. Remember technically speaking you should be rolling ever dice individually to begin with, and it does say the model under the blast takes the hit. So it's resolved at that specific models toughness.

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Also, we are agreed that Wound Allocation is handled via the Phase as normal so we use the Fight Sub-phase rules for wound allocation.

This means that Stomps on a roll of 2-5 will not affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with. Stomps with a roll of 6 can still affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

That is true for when the fight only affects the two units, however, if another unit is involved that is no longer the case.

For multiple combats:

Spoiler:

Directing Attacks
In multiple combats, during a model’s Initiative step, the following extra rules apply:
...
•A model that is in base contact with, or engaged with, more than one enemy unit when it strikes blows, can split its Attacks freely between those units. Declare how each model is splitting its attacks immediately before rolling To Hit. Wounds from Attacks that have been directed against a unit in a multiple combat cannot be transferred to another unit, even if the original target unit is completely destroyed (in this case, any excess Wounds are simply discounted and have no further effect.

Also remember that Fight sub-Phase Wound Pools do not have a Range like Shooting Wound Pools do. Range questions are only applied when attempting to hit.

 vipoid wrote:
So, not only can Stomps affect unengaged models, they can also snipe characters? Outstanding.

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Also, we are agreed that Wound Allocation is handled via the Phase as normal so we use the Fight Sub-phase rules for wound allocation.

This means that Stomps on a roll of 2-5 will not affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with. Stomps with a roll of 6 can still affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

That is true for when the fight only affects the two units, however, if another unit is involved that is no longer the case.

For multiple combats:

Spoiler:

Directing Attacks
In multiple combats, during a model’s Initiative step, the following extra rules apply:
...
•A model that is in base contact with, or engaged with, more than one enemy unit when it strikes blows, can split its Attacks freely between those units. Declare how each model is splitting its attacks immediately before rolling To Hit. Wounds from Attacks that have been directed against a unit in a multiple combat cannot be transferred to another unit, even if the original target unit is completely destroyed (in this case, any excess Wounds are simply discounted and have no further effect.

Also remember that Fight sub-Phase Wound Pools do not have a Range like Shooting Wound Pools do. Range questions are only applied when attempting to hit.

Nope. My point still stands and I have indicated in red on your spoiler. Stomps that roll 2-5 can only affect units that it is locked in combat with. Your spoiler covers the case when a GMC is locked in combat with more than one unit. So if you intentionally direct your Stomp Attacks at units that your GMC is not locked in combat with, Stomp results of 2-5 are effectively null effect against those units. Only Stomp rolls of 6 will affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with.

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Also, we are agreed that Wound Allocation is handled via the Phase as normal so we use the Fight Sub-phase rules for wound allocation.

This means that Stomps on a roll of 2-5 will not affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with. Stomps with a roll of 6 can still affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

That is true for when the fight only affects the two units, however, if another unit is involved that is no longer the case.

For multiple combats:

Spoiler:

Directing Attacks
In multiple combats, during a model’s Initiative step, the following extra rules apply:
...
•A model that is in base contact with, or engaged with, more than one enemy unit when it strikes blows, can split its Attacks freely between those units. Declare how each model is splitting its attacks immediately before rolling To Hit. Wounds from Attacks that have been directed against a unit in a multiple combat cannot be transferred to another unit, even if the original target unit is completely destroyed (in this case, any excess Wounds are simply discounted and have no further effect.

Also remember that Fight sub-Phase Wound Pools do not have a Range like Shooting Wound Pools do. Range questions are only applied when attempting to hit.

Nope. My point still stands and I have indicated in red on your spoiler. Stomps that roll 2-5 can only affect units that it is locked in combat with. Your spoiler covers the case when a GMC is locked in combat with more than one unit. So if you intentionally direct your Stomp Attacks at units that your GMC is not locked in combat with, Stomp results of 2-5 are effectively null effect against those units. Only Stomp rolls of 6 will affect units that the GMC is not locked in combat with.

Not quite. Stomp overrides all of that portion by virtue of how it determines hits. If it was only to affect Engaged models, it would either explicitly state as such or it would not allow the Blast Marker to be out of the base's range. Instead, the Blast Marker can be set anywhere within 3" of the previous Marker's placement and is explicitly stated as not required to be in base contact of the Stomper. The Fight Sub-Phase rules kick in after this point to resolve Wounding, etc, just as Blast and Template USRs replace the To-Hit rules and then revert back to the Shooting Sequence's rules after finishing that. Barrage creates an additional modification to the Wound Allocation process as well, but it is also clearly noted.

col_impact wrote:


Sure Stomp will generate hits on units out of combat, but you cannot allocate wounds to those units per the Fight Sub-phase rules and so those hits are lost.

 DeathReaper wrote:

col_impact wrote:


Sure Stomp will generate hits on units out of combat, but you cannot allocate wounds to those units per the Fight Sub-phase rules and so those hits are lost.

That is not at all true.

There is not any rule that states what you claim.

col_impact wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Sure Stomp will generate hits on units out of combat, but you cannot allocate wounds to those units per the Fight Sub-phase rules and so those hits are lost.

That is not at all true.

There is not any rule that states what you claim.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Sure Stomp will generate hits on units out of combat, but you cannot allocate wounds to those units per the Fight Sub-phase rules and so those hits are lost.

That is not at all true.

There is not any rule that states what you claim.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

And that is under the assumption that only one unit is hit. Indeed, the process detailed before that states as such.

However, if muiltiple units are involved, the rules change as I have already provided.

col_impact wrote:
Incorrect! Stomp Attacks can only wound multiple units if the units are locked in combat. Are you reading carefully the rules you are quoting? This is the second time I have corrected you on this.

Spoiler:

Directing Attacks
In multiple combats, during a model’s Initiative step, the following extra rules apply:
...
•A model that is in base contact with, or engaged with, more than one enemy unit when it strikes blows, can split its Attacks freely between those units. Declare how each model is splitting its attacks immediately before rolling To Hit. Wounds from Attacks that have been directed against a unit in a multiple combat cannot be transferred to another unit, even if the original target unit is completely destroyed (in this case, any excess Wounds are simply discounted and have no further effect.

 Happyjew wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Incorrect! Stomp Attacks can only wound multiple units if the units are locked in combat. Are you reading carefully the rules you are quoting? This is the second time I have corrected you on this.

Spoiler:

Directing Attacks
In multiple combats, during a model’s Initiative step, the following extra rules apply:
...
•A model that is in base contact with, or engaged with, more than one enemy unit when it strikes blows, can split its Attacks freely between those units. Declare how each model is splitting its attacks immediately before rolling To Hit. Wounds from Attacks that have been directed against a unit in a multiple combat cannot be transferred to another unit, even if the original target unit is completely destroyed (in this case, any excess Wounds are simply discounted and have no further effect.

Is the Stomp an Attack, or an attack?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col - the fight sub phase allocation rules only trigger when you are allocating wounds to a unit. Stomp never allocated to a unit, or never even hits a unit. It hits, and wounds, a model. It's similar to gets hot in that regard.

col_impact wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col - the fight sub phase allocation rules only trigger when you are allocating wounds to a unit. Stomp never allocated to a unit, or never even hits a unit. It hits, and wounds, a model. It's similar to gets hot in that regard.

Point to the rules for the To Wound roll and the Wound Allocation rules that we are supposed to use then.

Gets Hot! makes it clear in the rules for Gets Hot! themselves how to handle the wound

Spoiler:

For each roll of a 1, the
weapon Gets Hot; that shot is not fired and the firing model immediately suffers a single
Wound (armour saves or invulnerable saves can be taken) – this Wound cannot be
allocated to any other model in the unit. A character cannot make a Look Out, Sir attempt
to avoid a Wound caused by the Gets Hot special rule.

Stomp Attacks make no specification so we are to use rules already provided. So kindly point to them. If there are none to point to then the ones for the Fight Sub-phase are to be used.

col_impact wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Sure Stomp will generate hits on units out of combat, but you cannot allocate wounds to those units per the Fight Sub-phase rules and so those hits are lost.

That is not at all true.

There is not any rule that states what you claim.

Spoiler:

Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties
To determine how many casualties are caused at a particular Initiative step, you will need
to allocate the Wounds caused and resolve any saving throws the target is allowed. If
several pools of Wounds need to be allocated, the player making the Attacks must decide
in which order they are allocated. All Wounds from a single pool must be allocated
before moving on to the next pool of Wounds.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in
the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with
the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.
To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
• A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a
model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate,
the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to.
Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
• If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative
step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If
two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models
being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty
(if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you
must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the
Wound pool is empty. Note that all of the models in the target unit may be hit,
wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those
that are not engaged.

And that is under the assumption that only one unit is hit. Indeed, the process detailed before that states as such.

However, if muiltiple units are involved, the rules change as I have already provided.

Incorrect! Stomp Attacks can only wound multiple units if the units are locked in combat. Are you reading carefully the rules you are quoting? This is the second time I have corrected you on this.

Spoiler:

Directing Attacks
In multiple combats, during a model’s Initiative step, the following extra rules apply:
...
•A model that is in base contact with, or engaged with, more than one enemy unit when it strikes blows, can split its Attacks freely between those units. Declare how each model is splitting its attacks immediately before rolling To Hit. Wounds from Attacks that have been directed against a unit in a multiple combat cannot be transferred to another unit, even if the original target unit is completely destroyed (in this case, any excess Wounds are simply discounted and have no further effect.