Stomp Attacks

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**vipoid**

Are Stomp attacks (from Super Heavies) allowed to freely target units outside of combat?

We couldn't find any rules stopping it, but it seems really moronic if that's the case.

**Charistoph**

Define "target".

The first template is in base contact of the Stomper, while the following the possible templates are placed within so many inches of it. No restriction is made for the placement to be made on the unit the Stomper is Engaged with.

**vipoid**

Charistoph wrote:
Define "target".

The first template is in base contact of the Stomper, while the following the possible templates are placed within so many inches of it. No restriction is made for the placement to be made on the unit the Stomper is Engaged with.

Well, can it position the templates to hit/kill units that aren't in combat with it?

**jeffersonian000**

vipoid wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Define "target".

The first template is in base contact of the Stomper, while the following the possible templates are placed within so many inches of it. No restriction is made for the placement to be made on the unit the Stomper is Engaged with.

Well, can it position the templates to hit/kill units that aren't in combat with it?

Yes, because there are no restrictions, just instructions on how to place each marker.

SJ

**acme2468**

Note however that most Tournaments rule you can't target units out of the combat.

**Charistoph**

acme2468 wrote:
Note however that most Tournaments rule you can't target units out of the combat.

And that's great for those tournaments and they should include such in their tournament briefs.

**Mr. Shine**

acme2468 wrote:
Note however that most Tournaments rule you can't target units out of the combat.

I like when people say this, as if they've been involved in sufficiently large a number of totally-representative tournaments to be able to make such a claim.

**vipoid**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Define "target".

The first template is in base contact of the Stomper, while the following the possible templates are placed within so many inches of it. No restriction is made for the placement to be made on the unit the Stomper is Engaged with.

Well, can it position the templates to hit/kill units that aren't in combat with it?

Yes, because there are no restrictions, just instructions on how to place each marker.

SJ

So, to clarify, if an IK is engaged with an infantry squad, I can't shoot it because I might hit the infantry models who don't even reach its knees. However, it is free to make melee attacks against unengaged models up to 15" away. There is no middle finger big enough.

**Charistoph**

vipoid wrote:
So, to clarify, if an IK is engaged with an infantry squad, I can't shoot it because I might hit the infantry models who don't even reach its knees. However, it is free to make melee attacks against unengaged models up to 15" away. There is no middle finger big enough.

Stomp Attacks are not Melee Attacks. They are a special type of attack called Stomp Attacks.

**col_impact**

Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

**Trasvi**

Mr. Shine wrote:
acme2468 wrote:
Note however that most Tournaments rule you can't target units out of the combat.

I like when people say this, as if they've been involved in sufficiently large a number of totally-representative tournaments to be able to make such a claim.

Most (there's that word again) tournaments tend to use a third-party FAQ of some kind to create consistency with other events being played in the community. There are a half dozen of these 3rd party FAQ's around.
Its entirely possible that some people play in a corner of the world that doesn't have the internet to find these FAQs, or is so isolated that they don't need to conform to what the wider community is doing, or are so stubborn that they want to run events their way regardless of what everyone else is doing... but I'd wager the tournaments those people play at are few and far between.

I'd wager that most tournaments in your area use this FAQ: https://www.facebook.com/Australian-New-Zealand-Warhammer-40000-FAQ-710773455688407/ . Which coincidentally DOES follow the RAW and allow you to hit models outside of combat (the AUSNZ-FAQ tends to be very literal in its rulings due to being combined with community comp most of the time).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:
That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

If a MODEL is hit, then only that model can be allocated the wound (if any). No other allocation rules necessary.

Isn't it fun how in GW rules the most indiscriminate attacks (barrage, stomps and tank shocks) are the best ways to snipe out particular models?

**Charistoph**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

Don't be snide, how would you term it?

If a unit is hit, Wounds are allocated based on criteria of the Attack. However, in this case, models are hit, and so any resultant Wounds would be allocated to them. The 2-5 result could be LOS!, of course, since it Wounds, but in the end it is just a way of reallocating Wounds.

**vipoid**

Charistoph wrote:

Stomp Attacks are not Melee Attacks. They are a special type of attack called Stomp Attacks.

They are a type of attack that is only usable in melee and which involve the model physically attacking the models. Sorry but that is most definitely a melee attack.

**nosferatu1001**

vipoid wrote:
Charistoph wrote:

Stomp Attacks are not Melee Attacks. They are a special type of attack called Stomp Attacks.

They are a type of attack that is only usable in melee and which involve the model physically attacking the models. Sorry but that is most definitely a melee attack.

Excep close combat attacks are well defined. This does not got that definition. So is not a close combat attack. Your opinion is noted

**vipoid**

You're right - obviously stamping on something with your foot is a shooting attack. How could I have been so foolish?

**nosferatu1001**

It is neither a shooting attack or a close combat attack. Why the false dichotomy?

**vipoid**

Are you talking about close combat attacks as defined by the game, or as defined by any reasonable person?

**nosferatu1001**

As defined by the game. Or do you think a "shooting attack" as defined by someone not playing 40k would involve the use of dice, a to-hit chart and the concept of an armour save?

**vipoid**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As defined by the game. Or do you think a "shooting attack" as defined by someone not playing 40k would involve the use of dice, a to-hit chart and the concept of an armour save?

I think they'd define it as using a gun or other ranged weapon.

**Charistoph**

vipoid wrote:
Charistoph wrote:

Stomp Attacks are not Melee Attacks. They are a special type of attack called Stomp Attacks.

They are a type of attack that is only usable in melee and which involve the model physically attacking the models. Sorry but that is most definitely a melee attack.

Timing and position are the only ways to define it. Indeed, aside from those factors, there is absolutely nothing to define them as Melee Attacks. They do not use the WS or A characteristics. They do not use Melee Attacks Wound Allocation. They can hit units that are not Engaged in the same combat. They can hit units Engaged in a completely different combat.

So, there is nothing to define them as Melee Attacks. This has been gone through before, and there was nothing found but timing and position to relate them to Melee Attacks, and there was nothing found that made those things the exclusive definition of Melee Attacks.

vipoid wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
As defined by the game. Or do you think a "shooting attack" as defined by someone not playing 40k would involve the use of dice, a to-hit chart and the concept of an armour save?

I think they'd define it as using a gun or other ranged weapon.

And guns and ranged weapons in the rulebook are defined as providing Shooting Attacks in the Weapon section, while Weapons with the Melee Type are only used in Melee. We do have to use the rulebook definitions where they are provided.

**col_impact**

Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

Don't be snide, how would you term it?

If a unit is hit, Wounds are allocated based on criteria of the Attack. However, in this case, models are hit, and so any resultant Wounds would be allocated to them. The 2-5 result could be LOS!, of course, since it Wounds, but in the end it is just a way of reallocating Wounds.

So what you are saying is that Stomps have no rules for allocating wounds in the Stomp rules themselves.

However, the Fight Sub-phase rules govern wound allocation for Attacks at Initiative Steps. Is a Stomp Attack an Attack at a particular Initiative Step during the Fight Sub-phase?

**Unit1126PLL**

col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Which wound allocation rules do we use to resolve Stomp attacks? The rules in the shooting phase or the rules in the fight sub-phase?

The Wound Allocation rules in the Stomp Attack. They state it right in there.

I am not seeing any wound allocation rules in the Stomp rules. Can you quote what you are referring to?

Look at the chart.

2-5
Non-vehicle Target - Kerr-runch: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker suffers a Strength 6 AP4 hit.

6
Non-vehicle Target - Overrun: Each model from the unit being stomped that is even partially under the blast marker is removed as a casualty.

That's not a rule for allocating wounds.

Don't be snide, how would you term it?

If a unit is hit, Wounds are allocated based on criteria of the Attack. However, in this case, models are hit, and so any resultant Wounds would be allocated to them. The 2-5 result could be LOS!, of course, since it Wounds, but in the end it is just a way of reallocating Wounds.

So what you are saying is that Stomps have no rules for allocating wounds in the Stomp rules themselves.

However, the Fight Sub-phase rules govern wound allocation for Attacks at Initiative Steps. Is a Stomp Attack an Attack at a particular Initiative Step during the Fight Sub-phase?

What's this nonsense?

Stomp doesn't need wound allocation rules because it wounds models, not units.

**Grizzyzz**

col_impact wrote:

However, the Fight Sub-phase rules govern wound allocation for Attacks at Initiative Steps. Is a Stomp Attack an Attack at a particular Initiative Step during the Fight Sub-phase?

I believe it happens at initiative step 1. I could be wrong.. but pretty sure.

However, as others have stated stomp attacks have their own specific rules which as discussed.. place blast... roll d6.. follow what the table says... It even makes sense "fluff" wise that if a Gargantuan walker is stomping around on the battlefield its probably gonna cause some collateral damage.

**vipoid**

Grizzyzz wrote:

However, as others have stated stomp attacks have their own specific rules which as discussed.. place blast... roll d6.. follow what the table says... It even makes sense "fluff" wise that if a Gargantuan walker is stomping around on the battlefield its probably gonna cause some collateral damage.

What doesn't make sense, however, is that a gargantuan creature can stomp around without actually moving.

Similarly, it's rather annoying that you're not allowed to shoot said 3-story monstrosity, for fear of hitting the infantry it's currently scraping off its boots.

**col_impact**

Grizzyzz wrote:
col_impact wrote:

However, the Fight Sub-phase rules govern wound allocation for Attacks at Initiative Steps. Is a Stomp Attack an Attack at a particular Initiative Step during the Fight Sub-phase?

I believe it happens at initiative step 1. I could be wrong.. but pretty sure.

However, as others have stated stomp attacks have their own specific rules which as discussed.. place blast... roll d6.. follow what the table says... It even makes sense "fluff" wise that if a Gargantuan walker is stomping around on the battlefield its probably gonna cause some collateral damage.

The specific rules of Stomp only put hits on models, exactly like a Template does. However, templates have their wounds allocated in the Shooting Sequence.

Stomp is an Attack made while engaged in combat and executed at an Initiative Step and as such it follows the Fight Sub-phase rules. Those rules indicate that Attacks at Initiative steps have their wounds allocated. I can find no reason why Stomp Attacks would not have their wounds allocated per the Fight Sub-phase rules. The Stomp rules themselves state "Stomp attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 1 step" and the Fight sub-phase contains rules for allocating wounds and applying saving throws. This brings up another issue. The Stomp rules themselves make no mention of what saving throws are allowed to be taken against a Stomp Attack. If we follow the Fight Sub-phase rules, models get armor, invul, but not cover saves.

**vipoid**

Am I right in thinking models can still LoS stomp wounds?