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2015/12/29 00:39:33
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
California isn't my only place of reference, it's just what I've recently heard people talking about living conditions.
Another example, a friend, pretty, Scottish, white female, spent a summer out in a prestigious Texan university studying astronomy.
She went out on campus ground one night with another student, male, black, to do astronomy stuff... Cause that's what you do when you're an astronomer.
Apparently her friend got threatened with a gun by campus police who apparently immediately believed she was being kidnapped by him. It took some convincing from the girl to stop him from being taken in.
Time and time again, I hear about individuals in the States talking about medical expenses of family members and it effectively ruining whole families lives.
It's settled then. In your view, the U.S.is a piece of crap country. What separates it in your mind from what you consider better countries?
2015/12/29 00:46:39
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
I could talk about the parts of the UK I find pretty rubbish too (the weather being high up there on the list), if it'd make you feel any better.
I mean, the topic of this thread is about quality of living standards and countries after all.
Like I said earlier, Canada, except the parts of it which are having unrest about the whole French-Canadian thing, is a good option from my limited knowledge.
Sweden always seems to top the various lists too.
Edit: Maybe it's because I'm intrinsically cynical, but I find it a lot easier identifying examples of not the ideal of a quality of life, than it is of finding examples for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/29 01:00:33
2015/12/29 01:00:14
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
As a California native, from my perspective things aren't that bad here. Yes, everything is more expensive, but people tend to make more as well (minimum wage goes to $10 starting Jan first). We have a great education system that, while expensive (excessively so) at many levels also features a large number of very well equipped community colleges. And honestly I think the state government does a solid job given just how many people and how much area they have to manage. Certainly far better than the Federal government, though that isn't an incredibly high bar.
That said, worth noting that my first response to anyone who says the live/lived in LA is "I'm sorry for your loss" with only about half that being sarcastic. Its somewhat accepted around here (San Diego) that LA is not a place you want to be for any significant period of time.
It's settled then. In your view, the U.S.is a piece of crap country. What separates it in your mind from what you consider better countries?
Well, for me personally, socialised healthcare which is free at point of care is pretty high up on the list.
Sure, it's a bit better now that insurance companies in the US aren't allowed to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions but it took you so long to get to there and people are still reliant on being in work to be able to actually access non-emergency healthcare without paying through the nose for it.
Which can lead to people not going to the doctor when they begin to feel unwell, due to the cost, and you end up with easily fixable problems growing into much larger problems which are also much more expensive to fix.
Also, paid maternity leave. How do you still not have this written into law?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/29 01:06:12
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/12/29 01:01:03
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
I could talk about the parts of the UK I find pretty rubbish too (the weather being high up there on the list), if it'd make you feel any better.
I mean, the topic of this thread is about quality of living standards and countries after all.
Like I said earlier, Canada, except the parts of it which are having unrest about the whole French-Canadian thing, is a good option from my limited knowledge.
Sweden always seems to top the various lists too.
Edit: Maybe it's because I'm intrinsically cynical, but I find it a lot easier identifying examples of not the ideal of a quality of life, than it is of finding examples for it.
Sorry about the hostile seeming tone, didn't mean for it to come out that way. I just wanted to move the conversation along. I agree with you about Canada being nice, since I used to live on the border and half my family is Canadian.
2015/12/29 03:37:52
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
Just based on my own observations it's kind of hard for folks here in the states to discuss the failures of our country in comparison to the rest of the world.
I personally blame alot of that on the patriotic brainwashing in our education system. The whole "Our country is the greatest ever!" bit we learn over and over in school.
That said, in relation to the topic, I have to agree to the sentiments that it boils down to how well a countries citizens are cared for. Something I admittedly believe other countries do better than us but that might be a bit of 'Greener grass'.
2015/12/29 20:43:12
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
Jimsolo wrote: I've heard some pretty nightmarish things about the legal systems in some of the European countries.
Well, you're not alone in thinking some other legal system is really borked. I for one would avoid the US like the plague unless I was filthy rich. As far as the things anyone gets to see in news justice there seems to depend on being suitably white (ok, that I can manage) and having the money to hire a good lawyer (nope, not possible). Throw enough money on the lawyer and expert witnesses and you're on probation instead of doing 20-to-life like that poor black guy who did the exact same thing as you.
But as for high standard of living? I'd say one of the first things we don't appreciate enough until it's gone is peace. Not peace as in "we're not bombing some third-rate country" but peace as in "no one's bombing our power plants, water distribution or living areas". When standard of living means you can buy an extra hour of electricity compared to your neighbor we're no longer in the high end of living.
2015/12/29 21:19:47
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
I could talk about the parts of the UK I find pretty rubbish too (the weather being high up there on the list), if it'd make you feel any better.
I mean, the topic of this thread is about quality of living standards and countries after all.
Like I said earlier, Canada, except the parts of it which are having unrest about the whole French-Canadian thing, is a good option from my limited knowledge.
Sweden always seems to top the various lists too.
Edit: Maybe it's because I'm intrinsically cynical, but I find it a lot easier identifying examples of not the ideal of a quality of life, than it is of finding examples for it.
The French-Canadian hing has settled down a lot. Trudeau Sr. politely reminded the more violent elements that he had a bigger stick, and we more-or-less have been able to keep things civilized. Things got a bit loud back in the 90's, but they've quieted down a lot.
If you want somewhere in Canada that's "Bad", pick a random reservation. That's bad.
Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor
2015/12/30 16:06:19
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
For standard of living, do you mean the current, last generation or so political decisions that lead to differences among otherwise fairly similar nations, or do you mean the longer term, historical trends that led to some nations industrializing while others were colonized?
If the former, that's a political question, and not one I'm keen on wading into right now.
If the latter, you can look at a map and broadly divide the world into a few layers for standard of living:
Fullly developed (first world): Western/Northern Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, etc.
Mostly developed (Second world) Eastern Europe/Russia, Big chunks of Latin America, China parts of southeast Asia, South Africa, some of the middle east
Developing: much of Africa, Latin America, and Asia, including the middle east.
Dumpster Fires: parts of sub-Saharan Africa, Haiti, North Korea, Afghanistan, etc.
As other posters have noted, European Culture was ascendant when the technological curve really became exponential. Smallpox basically wiped out much of the native population in the Americas, which made at least the US and Canada new ground. Japan avoided colonization, at least partially due to having a strong enough civilization to resist the death by a thousand cuts India and China went through.
After that head start, there have been a few big trends: Western States tended to be relatively ethnically and religiously homogenous, which cut down on civil wars. War is destructive, but it can lead to a stronger nation state. Civil War, especially long, drawn out ones, can really weapon a nation. Having a common culture, there is more support for the central government.
There are some goofier factors at work. If you look at Eurasia, the strongest economies and governments are at the edges: Western Europe and Japan, along with southeast Asia. Coincidentally, the two parts of Eurasia the Mongols didn't reach. In a very real way, the rest of Eurasia spent generation recovering from the total war of the Mongol Hordes. Its easier to start colonizing the Americas when you're not redigging irrigation ditches.
2015/12/30 20:15:53
Subject: Re:What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
Freedom from the priestly class and emancipation from superstition have to weigh in pretty heavily here, as the existing and emerging theocracies of the world put on plain display.
2015/12/30 20:51:28
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
jasper76 wrote: Freedom from the priestly class and emancipation from superstition have to weigh in pretty heavily here, as the existing and emerging theocracies of the world put on plain display.
One of the only true (if partial) theocracies is Iran, which enjoys a much higher standard of living than most Islamic nations, and is rated generally as having a high human development.
2015/12/30 20:54:05
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
jasper76 wrote: Freedom from the priestly class and emancipation from superstition have to weigh in pretty heavily here, as the existing and emerging theocracies of the world put on plain display.
One of the only true (if partial) theocracies is Iran, which enjoys a much higher standard of living than most Islamic nations, and is rated generally as having a high human development.
"A much higher standard of living than most Islamic nations" does not strike me as a ringing endorsement.
2015/12/30 22:00:49
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
jasper76 wrote: Freedom from the priestly class and emancipation from superstition have to weigh in pretty heavily here, as the existing and emerging theocracies of the world put on plain display.
One of the only true (if partial) theocracies is Iran, which enjoys a much higher standard of living than most Islamic nations, and is rated generally as having a high human development.
"A much higher standard of living than most Islamic nations" does not strike me as a ringing endorsement.
Sigh.
The United Nations ranks Iran as 69th in Human Development. This is slightly higher than nations such as Mexico, Brazil, Turkey and the Ukraine.
Iran really is a nice country, minus the rabid nationalism among part of the population and theocracy. But potentially once the ayatollah is dead you could see some normalization of Iran.
I mean if you only take in the bad side of Iran, if you take in the bad side of the US we seem like nothing but homophobic, sexist, gun toting, rabid Christians.
But I was talking about the architecture, people in general, and their outdoors.
Ustrello wrote: I mean if you only take in the bad side of Iran, if you take in the bad side of the US we seem like nothing but homophobic, sexist, gun toting, rabid Christians.
But I was talking about the architecture, people in general, and their outdoors.
Fair enough, since a good chunk of the US population actually are homophobic, sexist, gun toting, and/or rabid Christians.
I have no special emnity for the citizens of Iran themselves, nor their architecture or outdoors.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/30 22:48:09
2015/12/30 23:11:10
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
d-usa wrote: If America would realize that our employment laws are an embarrassment it would be a much better place to live.
If we could combine US personal liberties with European employee rights I would be happy.
I agree with the gist of this. I wouldn't use the term embarassment, but I think some modest adjustments to what's becoming known as "work/life balance issues" is something that would have broad support. I think the obstacle here is that too often citizens take the side of employer interests, when the overwhelming majority of people are not employers.
The main issues that I see are lack of sick leave, ridiculously short parental leave, and the fact that employers can require workers to work over 40 hours a week.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/30 23:23:22
2015/12/30 23:38:20
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
d-usa wrote: If America would realize that our employment laws are an embarrassment it would be a much better place to live.
If we could combine US personal liberties with European employee rights I would be happy.
I agree with the gist of this. I wouldn't use the term embarassment, but I think some modest adjustments to what's becoming known as "work/life balance issues" is something that would have broad support. I think the obstacle here is that too often citizens take the side of employer interests, when the overwhelming majority of people are not employers.
The main issues that I see are lack of sick leave, ridiculously short parental leave, and the fact that employers can require workers to work over 40 hours a week.
I think as a population a lot of people don't think of themselves as "employees" but rather as "business owners who haven't started their business yet".
2015/12/31 00:16:36
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
d-usa wrote: If America would realize that our employment laws are an embarrassment it would be a much better place to live.
If we could combine US personal liberties with European employee rights I would be happy.
I agree with the gist of this. I wouldn't use the term embarassment, but I think some modest adjustments to what's becoming known as "work/life balance issues" is something that would have broad support. I think the obstacle here is that too often citizens take the side of employer interests, when the overwhelming majority of people are not employers.
The main issues that I see are lack of sick leave, ridiculously short parental leave, and the fact that employers can require workers to work over 40 hours a week.
Farming can be brutal for that. During planting season I would easily work 95 hours a week, but I suspect that's the truth of most farms no matter where you are in the world.
2015/12/31 08:38:55
Subject: What is it that gives countries a higher standard of living?
d-usa wrote: If America would realize that our employment laws are an embarrassment it would be a much better place to live.
If we could combine US personal liberties with European employee rights I would be happy.
I agree with the gist of this. I wouldn't use the term embarassment, but I think some modest adjustments to what's becoming known as "work/life balance issues" is something that would have broad support. I think the obstacle here is that too often citizens take the side of employer interests, when the overwhelming majority of people are not employers.
The main issues that I see are lack of sick leave, ridiculously short parental leave, and the fact that employers can require workers to work over 40 hours a week.
