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 gwarsh41 wrote:

Ok, so how would big would this codex be? How hard would it be to navigate, and how much would it cost?

Again, what would the point of combining these 3 separate armies into one book be?

Big, thus why i didnt recommend rolling them into the Base Codex, my solution was this:

Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Ravenguard and White Scars: Base Codex
Black Templars, Space Wolves, and Iron Hands: Supplements
Blood Angels and Dark Angels: Separate Codexes

So why do you want SW rolled back into a supplement? what is wrong with them right now?

SW has had their own book since what, 3rd or 4th edition? I mean, it was like a pamphlet back then, and it might as well have been a supplement, but then the 5th book came out, and it became a legit codex in its own right.

Now it has enough to it, where every single entry in the book is different than other marines, even if just by what wargear they take,(where as blood angel scouts and tacticals are just scouts and tacticals) codex.

There really isn't a reason for any of them to be anything more than all supplements aside from personal reason. What about grey knights being rolled into it all?

If done properly, I'd say that all SM can be in the same codex. Just look at how 30k legion rules are. It's not like we have a separate codex for each one.

Just give unique chapter tactics rules for each faction with access to special snowflake characters. Keep the lore based on what people like and voila. You have a codex (large) with rules for playing all the SM factions.

I feel that people NEED to have a book that states that they have a unique army when if you take a step back it's not that unique. Look at the Mechanicus and the Imperial guard. There's a difference. Look at A squad of Blood Angels Tacticals and a squad of Dark Angels tacticals. Each have their own unique rules, lore, and background but when it comes down to the bare bones. SM overlap a lot with each other. Putting them into one book makes sense.

Exception being Grey Knights as they're so far out left field they aren't SM as far as I can see.

I'd say that SW have more uniqueness than DA or BA.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
So why do you want SW rolled back into a supplement? what is wrong with them right now?

SW has had their own book since what, 3rd or 4th edition? I mean, it was like a pamphlet back then, and it might as well have been a supplement, but then the 5th book came out, and it became a legit codex in its own right.

Now it has enough to it, where every single entry in the book is different than other marines, even if just by what wargear they take,(where as blood angel scouts and tacticals are just scouts and tacticals) codex.

There really isn't a reason for any of them to be anything more than all supplements aside from personal reason. What about grey knights being rolled into it all?

SW's were the first 2nd Edition Codex, so they have been separate since pretty much the beginning of the game.

I'm a fan of "your dudes", reduction of general copy paste, and general customization options. The fact of the matter is that other than unique units, the non-SW/non-GK chapters generally have more in common than not. They all get their Tacticals/Devastators/Assault Squads faithfully reprinted across the main codices...redundancy be redundant.

In the home brew I'm doing, I'm rewriting a consolidated marine Dex with a chapter trait system where you have a choice of codex deviations, Geneseed mutations, chapter secrets, and renowned legacies. The system lets you create Marine chapter on a sliding scale from ultra-traditionalist and respectable, to those chapters of later founding that are more willing to buck tradition.

https://www.reddit.com/r/forgehammer/comments/42z7pg/forgehammer_space_marines/

Personally I think the current Marine Dexes are too far gone to salvage by just consolidating them into one dex. It needs a complete rewrite and squatting of a lot of units to make it managable again. GW has gone way too far down making "unique' units for each chapter that it'll become too big of a dex to just throw them into one.

I miss the days when the Marine's only special rule was ATSKNF. Now they have to have that AND chapter tactics to boot.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Personally I think the current Marine Dexes are too far gone to salvage by just consolidating them into one dex. It needs a complete rewrite and squatting of a lot of units to make it managable again. GW has gone way too far down making "unique' units for each chapter that it'll become too big of a dex to just throw them into one.

I miss the days when the Marine's only special rule was ATSKNF. Now they have to have that AND chapter tactics to boot.

And yet, apparently it's perfectly fine that there's no difference at all between an Iron Warrior vs. a Night Lord vs. a Word Bearer, etc...

Imo there shouldn't be any difference between an Iron Warrior Marine and a Nightlord Marine just like there shouldn't be a difference between a Blood Angels Marine and an Imperial Fist Marine.

But GW, about a decade ago, clung onto the thought that "only loyalist marines sell" and came up with too many of them. It's like going to an icecream store and they have 40 variations of Vanilla, but only a generic "fruity" flavour and a generic "Chocolate" rather than Strawberry, Banana, Coffee, Truffle or Mango flavours. .

I like chapter tactics. Going by the background a blood angels force does not fight like SW force which itself is unlike iron hands army.

I'm all for giving chaos marines legion tactics as a nice parallel to loyalist brothers but don't take away a chapters identity

Going for Chapter Tactics here, modiications to current SM book


Blood Angels

The Red Thist; All Blood Angel units have Furious Charge. In addition, any Blood Angel unit that declares a charge (other than a disorganised charge) gains +1 Initiative durin the first round.

Descent of Angels: If a Blood Angels units equipped entirely with Jump Packs enters play via Deep Strike, it only scatters D6" instead of 2D6.

Lucifer Pattern Engines: All tanks (except Land Raiders, Land Raider Crusaders and Land Raider Redeemers) add the Fast type to their profile.


New options
Honour Guard: special snowflake banner, Jump Packs
Predators: Assault Cannon and Inferno Cannon turrets, heavy flamer sponsons
Add in DCD, DC, SG and Characters
Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols added to all units that can take pistols (Sergeants etc)


Dark Angels

Grim Resolve: All Dark Angels units gain the Stubborn Special Rule. If a Dark Angel infantry unit has not moved in their preceeding movement phase, they may fire Overwatch at BS2.

Deathwing: Terminator, Terminator Assault and Command Squads equipped with Terminator Armour in a Dark Angels chapter gain the Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) and Fearless Special Rules.

Ravenwing: All Bike, Attack Bike and Biker Veteran and Command Squads equipped with Bikes may reroll their cover saves when Jinking.


New options
Terminators: Plasma Cannons
Command Squad and Honour Guard: the banners
Chaplains can upgrade to Interrogators
New units added:
Nephilem Jetfighter, Darktalon, Land Speeder Vengeance, Darkshroud, Deathwing Knights, characters

New unit (for everybody)
Veteran Biker Squad (same ppm as VV, +10 for bikes)
3-10 models
Equipment: Bolt Pistol, Frag/Krak, Space Marine Bike
Special Rules: All same as Black Knights, minus the DA specific rules.
Can switch for Plasma Talons on the bike, same options as VV, any model can take a Special Weapon at normal costs (so Grav Guns are still 15ppm)



Army wide
Command Squads can now take Terminator Armour and Jump Packs (+10ppm and +3ppm respectively)
Add in DA and BA only relics, powers and traits

 Deadshot wrote:

Dark Angels

Grim Resolve: All Dark Angels units gain the Stubborn Special Rule. If a Dark Angel infantry unit has not moved in their preceeding movement phase, they may fire Overwatch at BS2.

Deathwing: Terminator, Terminator Assault and Command Squads equipped with Terminator Armour in a Dark Angels chapter gain the Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) and Fearless Special Rules.

Ravenwing: All Bike, Attack Bike and Biker Veteran and Command Squads equipped with Bikes may reroll their cover saves when Jinking.

So DA are now so OP that you think it's a good idea to nerf them across the board? I agree that RW armies are really strong at the moment but why, just why would you want to nerf Greenwing and Deathwing?

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Dark Angels

Grim Resolve: All Dark Angels units gain the Stubborn Special Rule. If a Dark Angel infantry unit has not moved in their preceeding movement phase, they may fire Overwatch at BS2.

Deathwing: Terminator, Terminator Assault and Command Squads equipped with Terminator Armour in a Dark Angels chapter gain the Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) and Fearless Special Rules.

Ravenwing: All Bike, Attack Bike and Biker Veteran and Command Squads equipped with Bikes may reroll their cover saves when Jinking.

So DA are now so OP that you think it's a good idea to nerf them across the board? I agree that RW armies are really strong at the moment but why, just why would you want to nerf Greenwing and Deathwing?

I just looked up what their rules were, I'm not that familiar, this is what I was presented with and rolled with it, assuming that this was their rules for each. In any case, all I meant was that each unit keeps whatever army wide rule they already have, just rolled into the Chapter Tactics.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Imo there shouldn't be any difference between an Iron Warrior Marine and a Nightlord Marine just like there shouldn't be a difference between a Blood Angels Marine and an Imperial Fist Marine.

But GW, about a decade ago, clung onto the thought that "only loyalist marines sell" and came up with too many of them. It's like going to an icecream store and they have 40 variations of Vanilla, but only a generic "fruity" flavour and a generic "Chocolate" rather than Strawberry, Banana, Coffee, Truffle or Mango flavours. .

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I miss the days when the Marineprettyy special rule was ATSKNF. Now they have to have that AND chapter tactics to boot.

I'm so happy with this.

MagicJuggler wrote:I'm a fan of "your dudes", reduction of general copy paste, and general customization options. They all get their Squads faithfully reprinted across the main codices...redundancy be redundant.

In the home brew I'm doing, I'm rewriting a consolidated marine Dex with a chapter trait system where you have a choice of codex deviations, Geneseed mutations, chapter secrets, and renowned legacies. The system lets you create Marine chapter on a sliding scale from ultra-traditionalist and respectable, to those chapters of later founding that are more willing to buck tradition.

You know, except, as far as I'm concerned, that is as far from my or anybody else's dudes as it's possible to get.

That system definitely asserts, by its own existence, that no chapter is unique. I think it will be very popular.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Dark Angels

Grim Resolve: All Dark Angels units gain the Stubborn Special Rule. If a Dark Angel infantry unit has not moved in their preceeding movement phase, they may fire Overwatch at BS2.

Deathwing: Terminator, Terminator Assault and Command Squads equipped with Terminator Armour in a Dark Angels chapter gain the Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) and Fearless Special Rules.

Ravenwing: All Bike, Attack Bike and Biker Veteran and Command Squads equipped with Bikes may reroll their cover saves when Jinking.

So DA are now so OP that you think it's a good idea to nerf them across the board? I agree that RW armies are really strong at the moment but why, just why would you want to nerf Greenwing and Deathwing?

I just looked up what their rules were, I'm not that familiar, this is what I was presented with and rolled with it, assuming that this was their rules for each. In any case, all I meant was that each unit keeps whatever army wide rule they already have, just rolled into the Chapter Tactics.

Greenwing can move and still overwatch (potentially with full BS), Deathwing weapons are twin-linked when they DS and Ravenwing jink save rerolls apply to land speeders and fliers too.