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daveh974 wrote:
They don't have the emperor's gene seed. They just think they do. They were told they were beautiful unique snowflakes, and they believed it because it made them feel better than telling them, "You're the gene seed descendent of Jago Sevatar, one of the most horrible butchers of the traitor army, but he saw the light and joined Macador in the end".

The whole point of Emperor's Gift, was: "Sorry kids, you aren't special. The Space Wolves went Hulkamainia on your bitch asses because you're just fething space marines with specialist training for dealing with demons. Get over it."

And the latest codex outright states otherwise. From a 3rd person omniscient narrator.

Citations for previous statements all from GK 7th Ed

Re; Emperor geneseed

Pg 7
"The grey knights' strength of spirit and and purity of body were the two most important gifts the Emperor passed onto the chapter through his genetic legacy...

Few warriors since the Horus Heresy have matched the flawlessness of the Grey knights, nor are any so closely linked to the Emperor. It is that unique quality that the Emperor possesses, the nature of his spirit that allows him to touch the Warp (etc etc)...that he has gifted to the Grey knights"



Re; Inquisition

Pg 17, under Grand master Covan Leorac

"The Inquisition and Grey Knights are inextricably intertwined and their goals are often aligned."

Key words being 'often aligned' not "at the beck and call"

Pg 9 5th paragraph

"Telling of this first secret pact between the Inq and the gK"

Pact meaning a treaty or agreement. If the GK were at the command of the Inqusition they wouldn't need a pact.

 troa wrote:
JamesY, if you are saying the Prognosticars are NOT GK, then I believe you are mistaken. Emperor's gift shows them to be GK.

You're right, shouldn't post first thing in the morning. The are in very close contact with the Inquisition though, in Heart of Mortarian they inform the inquisition that they were unhappy with the election of Draigo to chapter master, so there is obviously a very close dialogue.

@deadshot you are completely ignoring the quotation from every publication (rules wise, not BL) that they are the military arm of the ordo malleus. The inquisition by nature makes inquires. The gk are there to deal with what they find. Nearly every piece of fluff about GK has an inquisitor in the background for that exact reason. Like I said, autonomous yes, but not completely independent. I'm not fussed about debating it further, we'll agree to disagree if you are adamant in your views (as I am).

GK are totes magotes the big E's most special and beloved children.

To my knowledge GK don't mind-wipe their SM brethren.

Hell in one story (can't remember which) the Dark Angels and GK both converge on a demon incursion and Azrael (DA Chapter Master) spends half his time arguing with Kaldor Draigo.

As an aside the GK are the only outside chapter that know about the fallen, and they don't care (Kaldor confronts Azrael about this fact in the novel I mentioned, again, can't remember the name).

They do mindwipe/purge guardsmen though, that much is true. Emperor knows why since the Daemons they face obviously know about them anyway so I don't see why keeping themselves secret in the imperium is even an issue, Chaos knows, hell Draigo mary-sues his way through the warp so I don't see what "secrecy" they have at this point (bar the location of titan, only the GK know that).

Izural wrote:
To my knowledge GK don't mind-wipe their SM brethren.

Hell in one story (can't remember which) the Dark Angels and GK both converge on a demon incursion and Azrael (DA Chapter Master) spends half his time arguing with Kaldor Draigo.

As an aside the GK are the only outside chapter that know about the fallen, and they don't care (Kaldor confronts Azrael about this fact in the novel I mentioned, again, can't remember the name).

They do mindwipe/purge guardsmen though, that much is true. Emperor knows why since the Daemons they face obviously know about them anyway so I don't see why keeping themselves secret in the imperium is even an issue, Chaos knows, hell Draigo mary-sues his way through the warp so I don't see what "secrecy" they have at this point (bar the location of titan, only the GK know that).

Pandorax.

They mind wipe marines, and execute guardsmen. They only mind wiped the guardsmen in Pandorax because of exceptional valour (aka executing them would have been a real anti-climax to the story.) Chapter masters don't get mind wiped purely because of the unknown damage it could do in other areas. That and only two seem to know about them in the canon.

Knowledge of the daemonic is a gateway for the daemonic. which requires a strong gatekeeper. Inquisitors have the will to keep their own gate locked, while the average human does not. If they are useful, then the knowledge is wiped to prevent future daemonic influence. However, if they aren't useful, then execution is the cheaper option. Sterilization and forced labor until death is considered a middle ground.

As to Astartes, current loyal indoctrination already includes the occasional mind wipe for line troops, or a tradition of veterans retaining combat knowledge regardless, which is why we see such mind wipes being a Chapter Master decision rather than an Inquisitorial mandate.

Grey Knights do not order executions nor mind wipes, they leave those decisions to the Inquisition.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Knowledge of the daemonic is a gateway for the daemonic. which requires a strong gatekeeper. Inquisitors have the will to keep their own gate locked, while the average human does not. If they are useful, then the knowledge is wiped to prevent future daemonic influence. However, if they aren't useful, then execution is the cheaper option. Sterilization and forced labor until death is considered a middle ground.

As to Astartes, current loyal indoctrination already includes the occasional mind wipe for line troops, or a tradition of veterans retaining combat knowledge regardless, which is why we see such mind wipes being a Chapter Master decision rather than an Inquisitorial mandate.

Grey Knights do not order executions nor mind wipes, they leave those decisions to the Inquisition.

SJ

I don't think that could have been put any better. +1 for you good sir.

Bar Dark Angels at Pandorax, what other chapters have fought beside Grey Knights? I can't imagine its too many.

IRC nothing it depends. The entire dark angels chapter fought with them and nothing occurred afterwards.

Izural:

Blood Angels and Space Wolves have fought beside them, as have at least a couple of Ultramarines. Red Hunters as well. You'd have to go through their timeline and a considerable amount of fluff but I'm sure they've fought alongside many many chapters.

Most Chapter Masters know of the Grey Knights, and know when and how to contact them.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Most Chapter Masters know of the Grey Knights, and know when and how to contact them.

SJ

With a shining beacon in the night sky!

Izural wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Most Chapter Masters know of the Grey Knights, and know when and how to contact them.

SJ

With a shining beacon in the night sky!

I was thinking Whatapp.

SJ

I just something I mind like the batman light

daveh974 wrote:
They don't have the emperor's gene seed. They just think they do. They were told they were beautiful unique snowflakes, and they believed it because it made them feel better than telling them, "You're the gene seed descendent of Jago Sevatar, one of the most horrible butchers of the traitor army, but he saw the light and joined Macador in the end".

The whole point of Emperor's Gift, was: "Sorry kids, you aren't special. The Space Wolves went Hulkamainia on your bitch asses because you're just fething space marines with specialist training for dealing with demons. Get over it."

Yet for some stupid reason the Spacewolfs constantly remain the most special of snowflakes.

 Deadshot wrote:

daveh974 wrote:
They don't have the emperor's gene seed. They just think they do. They were told they were beautiful unique snowflakes, and they believed it because it made them feel better than telling them, "You're the gene seed descendent of Jago Sevatar, one of the most horrible butchers of the traitor army, but he saw the light and joined Macador in the end".

The whole point of Emperor's Gift, was: "Sorry kids, you aren't special. The Space Wolves went Hulkamainia on your bitch asses because you're just fething space marines with specialist training for dealing with demons. Get over it."

And the latest codex outright states otherwise. From a 3rd person omniscient narrator.

Citations for previous statements all from GK 7th Ed

Re; Emperor geneseed

Pg 7
"The grey knights' strength of spirit and and purity of body were the two most important gifts the Emperor passed onto the chapter through his genetic legacy...

Few warriors since the Horus Heresy have matched the flawlessness of the Grey knights, nor are any so closely linked to the Emperor. It is that unique quality that the Emperor possesses, the nature of his spirit that allows him to touch the Warp (etc etc)...that he has gifted to the Grey knights"

It would be safe to say that the long-held general assumption this means something as literal as "the Emperor's geneseed" is now questionable in the light of what has been implied in recent Black Library works.

Were I to make prognostications of my own, I would guess that the it will turn that the Emperor employed warp magic super science to transform the Knights Errants' mixed bag of geneseed into something uniform and stable from which the Grey Knights chapter would descend. Of course, given the snail-like pace of the Horus Heresy series, I shan't be holding my breath for any particular revelation.

To return to the OP's question, it seems to be inconsistent in the fluff. It's stated baldly that Astartes who have fought alongside the Grey Knights are mind-wiped (and less valuable personnel executed), but the there are dozens of obvious canonical exceptions to this rule.

If I wanted a consistent in-universe explanation, it would be that this is the letter of Grey Knight/Ordo Malleus policy, but that in practice the mind-wipes are often risk-managed away as either unnecessary (the Astartes in question can be trusted not to blab), impolitic (their commander refuses, and you don't want a fight... at least not now), or impractical (the Space Marines have returned to their battle barge and departed).

 Lord Fishface wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

daveh974 wrote:
They don't have the emperor's gene seed. They just think they do. They were told they were beautiful unique snowflakes, and they believed it because it made them feel better than telling them, "You're the gene seed descendent of Jago Sevatar, one of the most horrible butchers of the traitor army, but he saw the light and joined Macador in the end".

The whole point of Emperor's Gift, was: "Sorry kids, you aren't special. The Space Wolves went Hulkamainia on your bitch asses because you're just fething space marines with specialist training for dealing with demons. Get over it."

And the latest codex outright states otherwise. From a 3rd person omniscient narrator.

Citations for previous statements all from GK 7th Ed

Re; Emperor geneseed

Pg 7
"The grey knights' strength of spirit and and purity of body were the two most important gifts the Emperor passed onto the chapter through his genetic legacy...

Few warriors since the Horus Heresy have matched the flawlessness of the Grey knights, nor are any so closely linked to the Emperor. It is that unique quality that the Emperor possesses, the nature of his spirit that allows him to touch the Warp (etc etc)...that he has gifted to the Grey knights"

It would be safe to say that the long-held general assumption this means something as literal as "the Emperor's geneseed" is now questionable in the light of what has been implied in recent Black Library works.

Were I to make prognostications of my own, I would guess that the it will turn that the Emperor employed warp magic super science to transform the Knights Errants' mixed bag of geneseed into something uniform and stable from which the Grey Knights chapter would descend. Of course, given the snail-like pace of the Horus Heresy series, I shan't be holding my breath for any particular revelation.

To return to the OP's question, it seems to be inconsistent in the fluff. It's stated baldly that Astartes who have fought alongside the Grey Knights are mind-wiped (and less valuable personnel executed), but the there are dozens of obvious canonical exceptions to this rule.

If I wanted a consistent in-universe explanation, it would be that this is the letter of Grey Knight/Ordo Malleus policy, but that in practice the mind-wipes are often risk-managed away as either unnecessary (the Astartes in question can be trusted not to blab), impolitic (their commander refuses, and you don't want a fight... at least not now), or impractical (the Space Marines have returned to their battle barge and departed).

The whole "Knights Errant are the Grey Knights" just does not work. Psykers are genetic evolutions, you can't just make it. And geneseed of an Asartes are contained without the chest cavity and throat, you can't remove it without killing them. Also, the Chapter already had a massive stockpile of geneseed waiting for them when they arrived on Titan along with thousands of recruits. For that to be a thing the Emperor would need to know the Astartes and their genetics and merge them all before he ever met them. And the two codex state that the Emperor met them then immediately sent them to Titan.

While there is the policy of "everything is canon," there is a hierarchy of "implication" vs "stated fact."

Ie, it is implied and speculated due to similarities that the Knights Errant become the Grey Knights, speculated by readers on vague facts. Whereas the codex outright states "the Emperor's genetic legacy." Its the difference between a novel character saying "I think the Earth is the flat" compared to the outright fact that "The earth is not flat."

It's entirely possible that the Knights Errant were a precursor to the Grey Knights, but there is no way they can be the Grey Knights. They have corruptible geneseed, they have no psyker abilities to wield Nemesis Force Weapons (and the Titansword, which is outright stated to be wielded by Janus upon founding the Chapter and needing Psychic attunement). The Knights Errant are just a Red Herring fanfiction from Black Library to sell novels using popular characters from the early HH books.

Deadshot wrote:The whole "Knights Errant are the Grey Knights" just does not work. Psykers are genetic evolutions, you can't just make it. And geneseed of an Asartes are contained without the chest cavity and throat, you can't remove it without killing them.

Easily handwaved, given that the Emperor is well-established to have been a master of genetic engineering, as well as a space wizard of godlike power.

Deadshot wrote:Also, the Chapter already had a massive stockpile of geneseed waiting for them when they arrived on Titan along with thousands of recruits. For that to be a thing the Emperor would need to know the Astartes and their genetics and merge them all before he ever met them. And the two codex state that the Emperor met them then immediately sent them to Titan.

It's already been established (in the Grey Knights' codex, as well as in the Heresy novels, if I recall), that timely-wimey shenanigans were going on around Titan. Also, the Emperor is a space wizard who can (however imperfectly) predict the future.

Deadshot wrote:While there is the policy of "everything is canon," there is a hierarchy of "implication" vs "stated fact."

It's a "stated fact" that all Space Marines want to be like the Ultramarines. It was once likewise "fact" that at the Heresy's outset the Emperor was already entombed in the Golden Throne, the Inquisition already existed and Horus and Leman Russ were just human generals. Stuff changes, and we can either just accept extra-digetically that it has been retconned, or rationalise the inconsistencies of older material as being in-universe half-truths or party lines.

Deadshot wrote:Ie, it is implied and speculated due to similarities that the Knights Errant become the Grey Knights, speculated by readers on vague facts. Whereas the codex outright states "the Emperor's genetic legacy." Its the difference between a novel character saying "I think the Earth is the flat" compared to the outright fact that "The earth is not flat."

That's an apples and oranges comparison, and it's in any case now "word of Doyle" that the Knights Errant will become the Grey Knights (see the last Black Library weekender). I make no apologies for speculating, or rather inferring from what the Heresy novels have implied, as to how this will come about. Your position also rests upon inferences - that "genetic legacy" necessarily equates to "geneseed" for one - but have failed to hold them to the same level of scrutiny.

And ofc, saying they are blessed by the Emperor's genetic legacy doesn't mean they're made of His Geneseed - just that they're made from some geneseed heritage he originally engineered.

Not sure if it means much since it was a Black Library novel, but in the Ultramarine series they encounter some Grey Knights at one point and are not subsequently mind wiped. I seem to remember the only reason they were accepted back into their own chapter had to do with the Grey Knights being the ones to deliver them back to the Ultramarine home world personally as the two main characters had been sent on a "death quest" from which they weren't expected to return.

This implies that the Grey Knights don't mind wipe everyone and other chapters are very much aware of their existence.

Malcadon the Sigilite provided thousands of Psyker recuits to the founding cadre of the forming Grey Knights, and the Grey Knights only recruit Psykers. Whether or not the original cadre were Psykers themselves has no effect on what the GK started with and continue to be. Also, whether or not the Knights Errant are the founding cadre still remains to be seen, despite BL's heavy handed implication that they are, or their soft denial when they say the KE aren't. We do know that the KE received pure geneseed from the Emperor, and there is no reason to doubt that the same pure geneseed was not supplied to the forming GK at their inception.

Which is to say, the founding Grand Masters of the GK did not themselves need to be Psykers to train a Chapter of Psykers to be Astartes.

SJ

Spetulhu wrote:
And ofc, saying they are blessed by the Emperor's genetic legacy doesn't mean they're made of His Geneseed - just that they're made from some geneseed heritage he originally engineered.

Which would be every space marine in existance. What about the utmost purity and resistance to the warp, which as I quoted "only the Emperor was so immune and it was this he gifted in his genetic legacy." His genetic legacy. The genetic legacy belonging to him. Its there in the grammar and the text.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jeffersonin wrote:
Which is to say, the founding Grand Masters of the GK did not themselves need to be Psykers to train a Chapter of Psykers to be Astartes.

SJ

Which is wrong, you cannot train someone in something you don't even comprehend. A non psyker has no idea what its like to be a psyker, not even close. It'd be like trying to teach your children how to calculate the mass of a black hole when you yourself can't count to 6. Even today, it's Librarians who train other Librarians because other Marines can't fathom what its like to reach out with your mind and feel the living sea of the warp, made of tens of billions of millions of souls and minds all bound together. It'd be exactly like trying to teach your children how to pilot a submarine through the toughest currents, through wormholes in time, when you have never even stepped foot on a bus, let alone any sea vehicle.

 mrveng wrote:
Excuse my lack of knowledge of the lore. From what I've read, GK and the inquisition are kept secret from everyone? Who knows of them officially?

The Inquisition, as a body, is known to exist across the Imperium. Its actions, like those of the CIA, are not.

 Deadshot wrote:

jeffersonin wrote:
Which is to say, the founding Grand Masters of the GK did not themselves need to be Psykers to train a Chapter of Psykers to be Astartes.

SJ

Which is wrong, you cannot train someone in something you don't even comprehend. A non psyker has no idea what its like to be a psyker, not even close. It'd be like trying to teach your children how to calculate the mass of a black hole when you yourself can't count to 6. Even today, it's Librarians who train other Librarians because other Marines can't fathom what its like to reach out with your mind and feel the living sea of the warp, made of tens of billions of millions of souls and minds all bound together. It'd be exactly like trying to teach your children how to pilot a submarine through the toughest currents, through wormholes in time, when you have never even stepped foot on a bus, let alone any sea vehicle.

You failed to read my post. It does not take a Psyker to train an Astartes, it takes an Astartes to train an Astartes. The founding Grand Masters did not need to be Psykers, they just needed to be veteran Astartes. Now, if the Knights Errant were the Grand Masters, one of them was a Psyker, Rubio, who was trained within the Librarius before the Council of Nikea. If the Knights Errant did not become the Grand Masters, the Sigilite still could have provided Psychic trainers for the first generation of the Chapter. At no point are the first Grand Masters required to be Psykers themselves.

SJ

I never understood why they didn't state a simpler solution. Grey Knights are all Psykers, right? Well, if it were my fluff to write:

Grey Knights use their potent Psyker abilities to alter the perception of mortals around them. Anyone who has witnessed the Grey Knights in action will have difficulty recalling exactly which Space Marine chapter he saw. Some may argue that they saw Ultramarines, others may describe heraldry that doesn't exist, and some may not recall any details at all.

How to fix this 'Grey Knights kill anyone that sees them': Marneus Calgar sees Kaldor Draigo.

Rumor has it that if you play this out, the next morning Matt Ward will be in your kitchen, drinking your coffee from your favorite mug. He'll autograph a Codex as 'Spiritual Liege'.

 Brother Armiger wrote:
I never understood why they didn't state a simpler solution. Grey Knights are all Psykers, right? Well, if it were my fluff to write:

Grey Knights use their potent Psyker abilities to alter the perception of mortals around them. Anyone who has witnessed the Grey Knights in action will have difficulty recalling exactly which Space Marine chapter he saw. Some may argue that they saw Ultramarines, others may describe heraldry that doesn't exist, and some may not recall any details at all.

How to fix this 'Grey Knights kill anyone that sees them': Marneus Calgar sees Kaldor Draigo.

Rumor has it that if you play this out, the next morning Matt Ward will be in your kitchen, drinking your coffee from your favorite mug. He'll autograph a Codex as 'Spiritual Liege'.

I think the only reason that everyone who sees a Grey Knight in battle is killed (excepting Astartes and VIPs, but not excepting Sororitas, Mechanicus or anyone else that's not a Space Marine or specially important) is because Grey Knights in the fluff dedicate their efforts exclusively against Daemons, and knowledge of Daemons or Chaos is punishable by death by the Inquisition because the mere knowledge can lead to an entire planet being overrun by daemons. So if you ever see a Grey Knight in battle, they're fighting a demon, and thus you've seen a demon.

Astartes have to know about Chaos because they're one of the main tools in fighting Chaos Space Marines and very helpful in fighting Daemons, and they're also notoriously difficult to reproduce due to needing the gene-seed. Astartes can also live up to a thousand years if not killed in battle first, and spend most of their time as Astartes either actively fighting in war zones or getting ready to fight in a war zone, making them worth investing effort into sparing.

Sororitas are far more numerous than Astartes (though this is debatable) and their duties typically lie with protecting holy sites, protecting Ecclesiarchy personnel and buildings, killing heretics (not necessarily Chaos-worshippers), and protecting pilgrimage routes. They don't live longer than an ordinary human (Living Saints aside), and physiologically they're just ordinary human beings in great physical condition, which are a dime a dozen in the overall Imperium. Grey Knights don't view those duties as being critical to the effort against Daemons, and view them as easily replaceable (which given their casualty rates in the lore, they must be), and the Ordo Malleus probably treats them similarly.

Important people get a pass because they have political pull that makes things easier. Also because important people get special treatment in 40k.

Also, your fluff ignores the Imperium's (and Astartes' in particular, with a few exceptions) general disregard for the value of human life. They don't care about the thousands they kill to keep Daemons a secret. They're not worth expending psyker powers on to keep alive.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Brother Armiger wrote:
I never understood why they didn't state a simpler solution. Grey Knights are all Psykers, right? Well, if it were my fluff to write:

Grey Knights use their potent Psyker abilities to alter the perception of mortals around them. Anyone who has witnessed the Grey Knights in action will have difficulty recalling exactly which Space Marine chapter he saw. Some may argue that they saw Ultramarines, others may describe heraldry that doesn't exist, and some may not recall any details at all.

How to fix this 'Grey Knights kill anyone that sees them': Marneus Calgar sees Kaldor Draigo.

Rumor has it that if you play this out, the next morning Matt Ward will be in your kitchen, drinking your coffee from your favorite mug. He'll autograph a Codex as 'Spiritual Liege'.

I think the only reason that everyone who sees a Grey Knight in battle is killed (excepting Astartes and VIPs, but not excepting Sororitas, Mechanicus or anyone else that's not a Space Marine or specially important) is because Grey Knights in the fluff dedicate their efforts exclusively against Daemons, and knowledge of Daemons or Chaos is punishable by death by the Inquisition because the mere knowledge can lead to an entire planet being overrun by daemons. So if you ever see a Grey Knight in battle, they're fighting a demon, and thus you've seen a demon.

Astartes have to know about Chaos because they're one of the main tools in fighting Chaos Space Marines and very helpful in fighting Daemons, and they're also notoriously difficult to reproduce due to needing the gene-seed. Astartes can also live up to a thousand years if not killed in battle first, and spend most of their time as Astartes either actively fighting in war zones or getting ready to fight in a war zone, making them worth investing effort into sparing.

Sororitas are far more numerous than Astartes (though this is debatable) and their duties typically lie with protecting holy sites, protecting Ecclesiarchy personnel and buildings, killing heretics (not necessarily Chaos-worshippers), and protecting pilgrimage routes. They don't live longer than an ordinary human (Living Saints aside), and physiologically they're just ordinary human beings in great physical condition, which are a dime a dozen in the overall Imperium. Grey Knights don't view those duties as being critical to the effort against Daemons, and view them as easily replaceable (which given their casualty rates in the lore, they must be), and the Ordo Malleus probably treats them similarly.

Important people get a pass because they have political pull that makes things easier. Also because important people get special treatment in 40k.

Also, your fluff ignores the Imperium's (and Astartes' in particular, with a few exceptions) general disregard for the value of human life. They don't care about the thousands they kill to keep Daemons a secret. They're not worth expending psyker powers on to keep alive.

Which all falls completely apart as soon as you look at Cadians. You know, the most famous, most successful, most prolific IG regiment in the entire Imperium, all from Cadia, a giant military academy placed on Chaos' doorstep with the explicit intention of guarding against Chaos incursions. Including not least of which... wait for it: daemons!

Keeping Chaos and daemons secret from everyone except Space Marines doesn't make any sense. It never has. Hence why the Grey Knights and their fluff are stupid.

Greyknights do no mind wipe to protect their seacret- they execute those who have encountered choas because they do not take any chances with demonic possesion. Only a greyknight can resist the possesion of choas or so they believe. It is said that any forces of the imperium that stand with the greyknight against choas are instantly exterminated after the battle. This is why they a unknown to the imperium - no one lives to tell the tale because greyknight only fight against demonic incursion. In the fluff - greyknight are as legend - each a carfully selected super marine psyker. The tabletop representation is so poor i refuse to play the army anymore.

That's assuming that they don't lose to whomever they were teamed up with.

 Deadshot wrote:

The whole "Knights Errant are the Grey Knights" just does not work. Psykers are genetic evolutions, you can't just make it..

Then how is it that people magically become psykers just by learning about the warp?


To be blunt, there's no reason they could not be Grey Knights. They have contacts with the black ships, they work for the inquisition, and they seem to have an uncanny knack for putting down daemons and other warp phenomena. Black Library has been about as subtile as a titan CC weapon about the fact that the knights errant are the founding Grey Knights.

And, importantly, looking at the procedure for 'founding' a new SM organization as exists and, apparently, existed, they'd take Space Marines either from the Death Watch or from the parent chapter, to train up the new marines in how to fight. From the assorted Knights, I'd say they have a good cross section of what the Grey Knights do.

Again, it's not the Grey Knights that kill or mindwipe bystanders, it's the Inquisition. And the Inquistion does it to protect the Imperium because knowledge of Chaos can be a gate to an incursion.

SJ