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We all know they are subjected to mind wipe and even execution.

What happens iif space marine Captian or Chapter master meets accidentaly on other plaent with Grey knights and thier leader? Are they killed or sworn to secretcy?

It's been shown in multiple places that the Marines just have to keep quiet basically, or are mind wiped, as they are seen as to great of a resource to execute due to the processes involved in creating a marine. The First War for Armageddon has the Space Wolves finding out about them, and Logan Grimnar himself meeting the chapter, which leads to the infamous conflict between them also involving the Inquisition. Another example involving a first founding chapter, at Pandorax Draigo and Azrael speak to each other, with Draigo basically blackmailing Azrael due to his knowledge of the Fallen. This seems to be an example of "keep quiet about us and do what I say or the Imperium finds out," and leads to Azrael begrudgingly accepting as there is no other choice other than open rebellion.

The rank and file would likely be mind wiped if possible but the general rule I've gotten from various novels is the Grey Knights are like fight club, don't talk about them and your in the clear. It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

For good reason. Those oldtimers are so well known and well respected that starting trouble with them would be, well, more trouble than it's worth. Some unknown grey marines challenging a Chapter dating back to the Heresy? The Grey Knights would be attacked by all loyal forces in the theater in support of the famous heroic McMarines. A secret that sparks a sector-wide civil war is not much of a secret anymore, and marines are valuable resources in any case.

So deals a struck instead. Some are just told to keep it quiet, and I imagine some are asked to send those marines on a certain-death type of mission bringing great glory to the Chapter (conveniently also getting rid of the direct witnesses).

Spetulhu wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

For good reason. Those oldtimers are so well known and well respected that starting trouble with them would be, well, more trouble than it's worth. Some unknown grey marines challenging a Chapter dating back to the Heresy? The Grey Knights would be attacked by all loyal forces in the theater in support of the famous heroic McMarines. A secret that sparks a sector-wide civil war is not much of a secret anymore, and marines are valuable resources in any case.

So deals a struck instead. Some are just told to keep it quiet, and I imagine some are asked to send those marines on a certain-death type of mission bringing great glory to the Chapter (conveniently also getting rid of the direct witnesses).

Yet the Grey Knights / Red Scorpions civil war against the Space Wolves is kept secret quite well, from all aside from the Space Wolves that is. Who the GK and inquisition just grumble about. Not even a blood claw would have their mind wiped thanks to that civil war.

I think chapter masters know, maybe a handful of marines in each chapter know of the inquisition and GK. Everyone else is kept in the dark.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

For good reason. Those oldtimers are so well known and well respected that starting trouble with them would be, well, more trouble than it's worth. Some unknown grey marines challenging a Chapter dating back to the Heresy? The Grey Knights would be attacked by all loyal forces in the theater in support of the famous heroic McMarines. A secret that sparks a sector-wide civil war is not much of a secret anymore, and marines are valuable resources in any case.

So deals a struck instead. Some are just told to keep it quiet, and I imagine some are asked to send those marines on a certain-death type of mission bringing great glory to the Chapter (conveniently also getting rid of the direct witnesses).

Yet the Grey Knights / Red Scorpions civil war against the Space Wolves is kept secret quite well, from all aside from the Space Wolves that is. Who the GK and inquisition just grumble about. Not even a blood claw would have their mind wiped thanks to that civil war.

I think chapter masters know, maybe a handful of marines in each chapter know of the inquisition and GK. Everyone else is kept in the dark.

I don't recall a mention of the fate of the Death Korps troops on Vraks who fought with the Grey Knights. Then again, the nature of the men of Krieg probably makes them less of a security issue (i.e. leaks) than the average Astartes.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

For good reason. Those oldtimers are so well known and well respected that starting trouble with them would be, well, more trouble than it's worth. Some unknown grey marines challenging a Chapter dating back to the Heresy? The Grey Knights would be attacked by all loyal forces in the theater in support of the famous heroic McMarines. A secret that sparks a sector-wide civil war is not much of a secret anymore, and marines are valuable resources in any case.

So deals a struck instead. Some are just told to keep it quiet, and I imagine some are asked to send those marines on a certain-death type of mission bringing great glory to the Chapter (conveniently also getting rid of the direct witnesses).

Yet the Grey Knights / Red Scorpions civil war against the Space Wolves is kept secret quite well, from all aside from the Space Wolves that is. Who the GK and inquisition just grumble about. Not even a blood claw would have their mind wiped thanks to that civil war.

I think chapter masters know, maybe a handful of marines in each chapter know of the inquisition and GK. Everyone else is kept in the dark.

Wait what?
When did the Red Scorpions/Grey Knights fight the Space Wolves?
And where can i read about it?

commander dante wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

For good reason. Those oldtimers are so well known and well respected that starting trouble with them would be, well, more trouble than it's worth. Some unknown grey marines challenging a Chapter dating back to the Heresy? The Grey Knights would be attacked by all loyal forces in the theater in support of the famous heroic McMarines. A secret that sparks a sector-wide civil war is not much of a secret anymore, and marines are valuable resources in any case.

So deals a struck instead. Some are just told to keep it quiet, and I imagine some are asked to send those marines on a certain-death type of mission bringing great glory to the Chapter (conveniently also getting rid of the direct witnesses).

Yet the Grey Knights / Red Scorpions civil war against the Space Wolves is kept secret quite well, from all aside from the Space Wolves that is. Who the GK and inquisition just grumble about. Not even a blood claw would have their mind wiped thanks to that civil war.

I think chapter masters know, maybe a handful of marines in each chapter know of the inquisition and GK. Everyone else is kept in the dark.

Wait what?
When did the Red Scorpions/Grey Knights fight the Space Wolves?
And where can i read about it?

Emperor's Gift novel.

The emperium thanks them for donating all of their organs and proto glands to further the chapter geneseed

It depends on the Marine and Chapter. The Blood Ravens for example know of them, due to high levels of psykers, Angelos's Daemonhammer and their fight against Chaos. Azrael of the DA and Logan of the SW know, due to circumstances already mentioned. The BA don't know however, even though they fought Ka'Bandha together, Dante agreed to a Chapter wide Mind Wipe. Other Chapters like the Silver Skulls openly know of them and give the GK first pic of their psychic recruits.

The general answer is mind wipe, but asides from a single troulesome marine, making Marines dissappear is difficult, so if they refuse on a large scale, or a high ranking Marine refuses, they are probably left alone but sworn to secrecy. If the Chapter doesn't have its ducks in a row it might be wiped and declared Excommunicate Traitoris, but that's an extreme scenario that would only occur if they wouldn't keep quiet. The GK dont have the numbers to fight half the Daemonic battles they do, much less wiping out Marine chapters

 Deadshot wrote:
It depends on the Marine and Chapter. The Blood Ravens for example know of them, due to high levels of psykers, Angelos's Daemonhammer and their fight against Chaos. Azrael of the DA and Logan of the SW know, due to circumstances already mentioned. The BA don't know however, even though they fought Ka'Bandha together, Dante agreed to a Chapter wide Mind Wipe. Other Chapters like the Silver Skulls openly know of them and give the GK first pic of their psychic recruits.

The general answer is mind wipe, but asides from a single troulesome marine, making Marines dissappear is difficult, so if they refuse on a large scale, or a high ranking Marine refuses, they are probably left alone but sworn to secrecy. If the Chapter doesn't have its ducks in a row it might be wiped and declared Excommunicate Traitoris, but that's an extreme scenario that would only occur if they wouldn't keep quiet. The GK dont have the numbers to fight half the Daemonic battles they do, much less wiping out Marine chapters

Wouldn't the Blood Angels know about the Inquisition after the whole false resurrection of Sanguinius incident (Blood Angels Civil War started by Ramius Stele)? Or is that something that they just don't talk about? I can't find anything in the end of the Omnibus here in front of me about a mind wipe having taken place, only a mention of deleting this from the chronicles of the chapter, or is the cleansing ritual stuff what would have been used to clear their minds of the knowledge of anything to do with the Inquisitors and Grey Knights?

They get a sudden case of amnesia worse than Linds ay Lohan after a night in Vegas. That's what happens.

Zelarias wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
It depends on the Marine and Chapter. The Blood Ravens for example know of them, due to high levels of psykers, Angelos's Daemonhammer and their fight against Chaos. Azrael of the DA and Logan of the SW know, due to circumstances already mentioned. The BA don't know however, even though they fought Ka'Bandha together, Dante agreed to a Chapter wide Mind Wipe. Other Chapters like the Silver Skulls openly know of them and give the GK first pic of their psychic recruits.

The general answer is mind wipe, but asides from a single troulesome marine, making Marines dissappear is difficult, so if they refuse on a large scale, or a high ranking Marine refuses, they are probably left alone but sworn to secrecy. If the Chapter doesn't have its ducks in a row it might be wiped and declared Excommunicate Traitoris, but that's an extreme scenario that would only occur if they wouldn't keep quiet. The GK dont have the numbers to fight half the Daemonic battles they do, much less wiping out Marine chapters

Wouldn't the Blood Angels know about the Inquisition after the whole false resurrection of Sanguinius incident (Blood Angels Civil War started by Ramius Stele)? Or is that something that they just don't talk about? I can't find anything in the end of the Omnibus here in front of me about a mind wipe having taken place, only a mention of deleting this from the chronicles of the chapter, or is the cleansing ritual stuff what would have been used to clear their minds of the knowledge of anything to do with the Inquisitors and Grey Knights?

Its nothing to do with the Inquisition, its about the Grey Knights. The grey knights operate on their own, that's why one of their Grand Masters is Representative to the Inquisition and ensures that no Grey knight and inquisitor work together too much lest they learn too much about one another. They go out and fight Daemons as per their own prognosticar's forewarnings, without the Inq's knowledge or permission. Grey knights can be requested by the Inquisition but they aren't bound to it like attack dogs, they work in concert The existance of the Inquisition is common knowledge, like the Gestapo. The Grey Knights are a closely guarded secret. There's a difference.

Oh alright, thanks for the clarification on that :-)

It's a misnomer that Grey Knights are behind the mindwipes or mass executions. Those are on the Inquisition, not the Grey Knights. Grey Knights were the ultra secret weapon of the Imperium in the fight against Chaos that the Inquistion guarded for nearly 10,000 years, with very few knowing of their existance. That's until the Space Wolves allowed that secret to get out after the 1st War of Armageddon. From that point on Grey Knights went from being unknown to all but a few, to the boogymen moms scare their kids with in order to get them to eat their porridge. The Space Wolve's high principles let a 10,000 year old secret out because they disagreed with the measures the Inquisition use to keep that secret. After 1st Armageddon, there's no point in mindwiping or mass executions of anyone to keep the "secret", it's still used as it always was by the Inquisition to stop the outbreak of Chaos influence.

SJ

And Grey Knights slaughter every human they see because they're maniacs. Inqusitors blow up every planet they see. Every Grey Knight is more powerful than a Primarch.

See I can exaggerate too.

Excuse my lack of knowledge of the lore. From what I've read, GK and the inquisition are kept secret from everyone? Who knows of them officially?

 mrveng wrote:
Excuse my lack of knowledge of the lore. From what I've read, GK and the inquisition are kept secret from everyone? Who knows of them officially?

Chapter Masters, probably high ranking IG generals, the Ordo Malleus and the Space Wolves who met them or bothered to ask.

Read the black dragons novel sound l some time to see how Inquisitors react to someone, even an astartes captain, being able to recognize what ordo he is from. PS Great book regardless.

mrveng wrote:Excuse my lack of knowledge of the lore. From what I've read, GK and the inquisition are kept secret from everyone? Who knows of them officially?

Deadshot wrote:It depends on the Marine and Chapter. The Blood Ravens for example know of them, due to high levels of psykers, Angelos's Daemonhammer and their fight against Chaos. Azrael of the DA and Logan of the SW know, due to circumstances already mentioned. The BA don't know however, even though they fought Ka'Bandha together, Dante agreed to a Chapter wide Mind Wipe. Other Chapters like the Silver Skulls openly know of them and give the GK first pic of their psychic recruits.

The general answer is mind wipe, but asides from a single troulesome marine, making Marines dissappear is difficult, so if they refuse on a large scale, or a high ranking Marine refuses, they are probably left alone but sworn to secrecy. If the Chapter doesn't have its ducks in a row it might be wiped and declared Excommunicate Traitoris, but that's an extreme scenario that would only occur if they wouldn't keep quiet. The GK dont have the numbers to fight half the Daemonic battles they do, much less wiping out Marine chapters

The Inquisition is NOT a secret. The inq is the secret police except they are not secret themselves, only what they do is secret. All you need to know is that you obey the Emperor or they come for you.

The Grey knights ARE a secret, or at best, a rumour. Only particularsknow of them such as those I listed above.

It really depends on the Astartes in question. The Grey Knights like to preserve their secrets, normally by massacring everyone in sight. Of course, with important people and Astartes this is not possible, and so they usually request that the person in question has his experienced of the encounter erased. Some Chapters are okay with that. Some aren't. If a Captain or Chapter Master isn't, the Grey Knights aren't going push the issue. They do probably have to swear some kind of super secret sacred oath of secrecy though. The Grey Knights don't really have a way of enforcement though, so it depends on the honour of the Astartes.

GK do not go around slaughtering every human they see. The regular humans they do interact with already know about them. Most of what the GK do is clandestine and done through Inquistorial contacts. And when no Inquisition is dirrectly involved, it's a huge incursion that has already see to the death of millions.

SJ

You'll note how I said I was exaggerating therefore not being serious.

 Deadshot wrote:


The grey knights operate on their own, that's why one of their Grand Masters is Representative to the Inquisition and ensures that no Grey knight and inquisitor work together too much lest they learn too much about one another. They go out and fight Daemons as per their own prognosticar's forewarnings, without the Inq's knowledge or permission. Grey knights can be requested by the Inquisition but they aren't bound to it like attack dogs,

I think you might be confusing autonomy with independence. Yes the grey knights have the freedom to prosecute their own campaigns, but they are the military wing of the ordo malleus, so they certainly would not act without informing the inquisition, and they would be accountable to them. The ordo malleus also do have the authority to direct the Gk, it would not be requested, it would be ordered and followed. There would be no option to refuse. Traditionally, OM inquisitors would investigate suspected sites of daemonic incursions, and summon the grey knights if needed. The splitting of the codex has given an impression of division, but in the fluff they have always been a part of the OM, as far back as 2nd ed at least.

You are right about the inquisition though, most in the imperium would be aware of it in some form as a "bogeyman" figure, although they would have no idea of it's offices or workings.

 JamesY wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The grey knights operate on their own, that's why one of their Grand Masters is Representative to the Inquisition and ensures that no Grey knight and inquisitor work together too much lest they learn too much about one another. They go out and fight Daemons as per their own prognosticar's forewarnings, without the Inq's knowledge or permission. Grey knights can be requested by the Inquisition but they aren't bound to it like attack dogs,

I think you might be confusing autonomy with independence. Yes the grey knights have the freedom to prosecute their own campaigns, but they are the military wing of the ordo malleus, so they certainly would not act without informing the inquisition, and they would be accountable to them. The ordo malleus also do have the authority to direct the Gk, it would not be requested, it would be ordered and followed. There would be no option to refuse. Traditionally, OM inquisitors would investigate suspected sites of daemonic incursions, and summon the grey knights if needed. The splitting of the codex has given an impression of division, but in the fluff they have always been a part of the OM, as far back as 2nd ed at least.

You are right about the inquisition though, most in the imperium would be aware of it in some form as a "bogeyman" figure, although they would have no idea of it's offices or workings.

Even in 5th Ed they were independent. They have access to info the Ordo Malleus don't, specifically that which is provided by psychic divination. If a OM Inquisitor says "I need back-up for this potentially Chaotic incursion" the GK might day "tough gak, Angron the fething Primarch is about to go all Hulk-mode on Armegeddon we have more important issues." The GK pick their battles themselves, the OM merely request them. They are sanctioned by the Emperor Himself at the same time the Inquistion was, they have as much say as they do, plus they carry His genes so they have more authority really.

@deadshot do you have a source for that? All the literature clearly shows that they are under the directive of the OM. Like I said, they are an autonomous organization, but that doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want without being held accountable. Being created simultaneously to the inquisition doesn't mean equality. Nor does their geneseed. The inquisition was created to uncover corruption in various forms. The Gk made to deal with that corruption if it is daemonic. The prognosticars are on titan, but they aren't Gk, and their divinations are given to both. If a senior inquisitor ordered the Gk to planet x, they would have to leave place y. Doesn't mean they might not leave an army on y to finish the fight.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It should be noted that in general the chapters that where once legions generally seem to be given more leeway

For good reason. Those oldtimers are so well known and well respected that starting trouble with them would be, well, more trouble than it's worth. Some unknown grey marines challenging a Chapter dating back to the Heresy? The Grey Knights would be attacked by all loyal forces in the theater in support of the famous heroic McMarines. A secret that sparks a sector-wide civil war is not much of a secret anymore, and marines are valuable resources in any case.

So deals a struck instead. Some are just told to keep it quiet, and I imagine some are asked to send those marines on a certain-death type of mission bringing great glory to the Chapter (conveniently also getting rid of the direct witnesses).

Yet the Grey Knights / Red Scorpions civil war against the Space Wolves is kept secret quite well, from all aside from the Space Wolves that is. Who the GK and inquisition just grumble about. Not even a blood claw would have their mind wiped thanks to that civil war.

I think chapter masters know, maybe a handful of marines in each chapter know of the inquisition and GK. Everyone else is kept in the dark.

I don't recall a mention of the fate of the Death Korps troops on Vraks who fought with the Grey Knights. Then again, the nature of the men of Krieg probably makes them less of a security issue (i.e. leaks) than the average Astartes.

Shipped off to the next battlefield, its likely none of the Kriegsmen that survived Vraks are still alive, except very of them and they're probably high ranked officers with more knowledge of the Imperium as a whole

JamesY, if you are saying the Prognosticars are NOT GK, then I believe you are mistaken. Emperor's gift shows them to be GK.

 JamesY wrote:
@deadshot do you have a source for that? All the literature clearly shows that they are under the directive of the OM. Like I said, they are an autonomous organization, but that doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want without being held accountable. Being created simultaneously to the inquisition doesn't mean equality. Nor does their geneseed. The inquisition was created to uncover corruption in various forms. The Gk made to deal with that corruption if it is daemonic. The prognosticars are on titan, but they aren't Gk, and their divinations are given to both. If a senior inquisitor ordered the Gk to planet x, they would have to leave place y. Doesn't mean they might not leave an army on y to finish the fight.

Yeah, 2 whole codexes. I don't have them on me this second to get word for words but i've read them both cover to cover and there's no mention of them being under directive, just "in close cooperation." Plus, the GK have their own agenda. The Inquistion is corruptable and subject to petty disputes between individuals, the GK must be above that. There are plenty of times in the fluff where GK operate entirely without the Inquisitioj present, such as Malan'tai or the Blood Tide. The GK need to be independent or it simply doesn't work. Its like having Space Marines have to fill out paperwork and get permission in triplicate from their Captain to go to training or make an assault on an isolated enemy outpost.

X