Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Meganobz are vastly superior to Tactical Terminators. They're more durable against non-AP2 AND non-S8 AP2. The only thing that kills Meganobz faster than it kills Terminators is S8+ AP2-, and while that exists it's a decent tradeoff. Meganobz also have more attacks base, and don't have to pay for the full 5. I'd take Meganobz over Tactical Terminators any day in the week, but part of what makes MANz better is the Trukk. It's a gakky transport, sure, but it's also going to force your opponent to deal with it or get Klaw'd in the face.

Are Meganobz the best unit ever? No, they have issues. They're still miles ahead of Tactical Terminators.

That's true, but slow and purposeful, leadership 7, an AV10 open-topped transport and no invulnerable save on an exclusively close combat unit are not exactly encouraging.

If that makes them "miles ahead of tactical terminators," then so be it, but that's more of a statement on the status of tactical terminators.

Grey Knights have 2 wound Termies in the form of Paladins, which at 55ppm are considered by GK players to be overpriced to the point of worthlessness when compared to our 33ppm GKTs. If Pallies were 40ppm, or T5, it'd be a different story. Cataphractii are effectively GK Pallies without being Psykers and at only 1 wound, at 15ppm less.

SJ

 Cleatus wrote:
Generally speaking, most Ork units are weaker versions of SM units, but also cost less and so Orks take more models to compensate. MANZ are 40pts each vs 35pts each for terminators.

Meganobs are overpriced. I won't disagree there.

Terminators and Meganobs used to both be priced at 40 points per model. The terminators got a discount, but the meganobs have not. Both either need a discount, or need to have their durability buffed.

I say durability instead of damage output because the iconic concept of Meganobs/Terminators are tough as nails marines. They should be able 65/45 in terms of resilience vs damage output.

Adding FNP for free would help this issue. Adding an extra wound per model would too.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
They are too slow for maelstrom and obj missions. Speed+dakka wins

This is my concern as well. Not being able to run is HUGE! The best you can really do is leave them near an objective to defend it, but don't expect them to be able to huff it to an objective in order to take it. They just don't have the mobility.

Thank you jy2 nobody yet mentioned running in this entire thread. When terminators deep strike, they need that run move to get the power fists where they need to be for next turn.

Everyone saying that MegaNobz and Terminators need a durability boost is wrong. They need more damage output. Make them as durable as you want, but that just means they're ignored instead of sometimes killed for KP's.

 axisofentropy wrote:
Thank you jy2 nobody yet mentioned running in this entire thread. When terminators deep strike, they need that run move to get the power fists where they need to be for next turn.

Would you really want to deep strike a terminator if you weren't playing Dark Angels?

They can't assault the turn they deep strike, which means you're laying them on the board, close to the enemy, with a possibility of mishap, and you're leaving them exposed and out of combat for an entire turn of shooting.

By contrast, if you just put Cataphractii terminators in a land raider....there's your mobility right there. And they can assault out of it.
Then once finished you can hop back in the land raider.

 TedNugent wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
Thank you jy2 nobody yet mentioned running in this entire thread. When terminators deep strike, they need that run move to get the power fists where they need to be for next turn.

Would you really want to deep strike a terminator if you weren't playing Dark Angels?

They can't assault the turn they deep strike, which means you're laying them on the board, close to the enemy, with a possibility of mishap, and you're leaving them exposed and out of combat for an entire turn of shooting.

By contrast, if you just put Cataphractii terminators in a land raider....there's your mobility right there. And they can assault out of it.
Then once finished you can hop back in the land raider.

All good points, and my Dark Angel bias is showing. But would you really want to pay for a Land Raider for the cost of another terminator squad?

Can they ride in Drop Pods? that might be even better.

Yes you can use Drop Pods. You just buy them from FA.

Personally I'd pod or DS. A Land Raider is way too much investment.

Just buying Teleport Homers saves your FA Slot. Multiple detachments make this less an issue, but it is always good to bring up.

I'm just glad we can bestow Relentless on a bunch of things that shouldn't have it via the Cataphracti Captain. I'll bet you a week's pay that the designer that wrote those rules had no fething idea what he was doing in the greater scheme of 40K.

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'm just glad we can bestow Relentless on a bunch of things that shouldn't have it via the Cataphracti Captain. I'll bet you a week's pay that the designer that wrote those rules had no fething idea what he was doing in the greater scheme of 40K.

Do we HONESTLY care if Devastators can move and shoot when Skyhammer fixes that for you?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'm just glad we can bestow Relentless on a bunch of things that shouldn't have it via the Cataphracti Captain. I'll bet you a week's pay that the designer that wrote those rules had no fething idea what he was doing in the greater scheme of 40K.

Do we HONESTLY care if Devastators can move and shoot when Skyhammer fixes that for you?

That is sorta the attitude you get when your neighborhood's all jacked-up, isn't? I mean, who cares about throwing your garbage on the front lawn when there's abandoned cars, condemned buildings, and crack dealers on the corner?

That didn't answer my question.

 TedNugent wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:

Forgeworld writes better rules than Games Workshop and actually edits their rules. There's your explanation for that.

.

FW has a different target in the market, that' s why it writes better rules.

As a net gain, l claw terminators are greatly improved. Better invuln in cc, ability to still take a cfist and heavy flamer, and having assault grenades. Biggest improvement I see.

what really makes this terminator armour shine is the new reroll save psychic power. 2+/4++ rerollable is really nice. Other then that this is a nice unit nothing amazing.

gungo wrote:
what really makes this terminator armour shine is the new reroll save psychic power. 2+/4++ rerollable is really nice. Other then that this is a nice unit nothing amazing.

Well, that and the Slow and Purposeful, the Grenade Harness, and the super-boltguns.

SJ

 labmouse42 wrote:

 slip wrote:
Ork Meganobz basically have to give up their inv for S&P, and now SM get it for free and a better inv to boot. Not that ork players could take advantage of it anyway with their BS 2 TL shoota.

Great. Good balancing GW.

Meganobs have 2 wounds each. There is not even a comparison. I would take a 2 wound terminator without an invuln any day of the week -- and twice on Sunday.

You say that now, but like tyranid warriors they are doubled out by melta, which there is a ton of. And if you are getting shot by grav, they have exactly the same survival rate. I guess the grass is always greener.

Yeah they would be doubled out by Melta Guns, but a 5++ was unlikely to help you anyway.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

gungo wrote:
what really makes this terminator armour shine is the new reroll save psychic power. 2+/4++ rerollable is really nice. Other then that this is a nice unit nothing amazing.

Well, that and the Slow and Purposeful, the Grenade Harness, and the super-boltguns.

SJ

Slow and purposeful is really only good for a HQ tied to a dev squad or artillery. More of an exploited gimmick then anything else.
Other than that slow and purposeful is a lot of detriments to a non heavy weapon squad of terminators.
Grenade harness is good for cover assaults but it's not like these terminators are fast enough to catch a unit and can't overwatch when they get caught. Great bolt guns within 12in but still bolt guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah they would be doubled out by Melta Guns, but a 5++ was unlikely to help you anyway.

this is completely untrue because statistically that's 1/3 the time in fact this is the exact same reason why people stack painboys with its 50pt tax for a 5+ fnp that still gets doubled out by melta str 8 guns.

If it's more likely to fail than succeed then I'd say it helping is unlikely.

Slow and Purposeful is good because it confers. Yes, only the CataCap can make good use out of it, this is a descusion on the Cataphactii TDA, so the CataCap counts.

The Grenade Harness is good not just for the frag in assaults but because it grants two small blasts in addition to the bolter fire, which is pretty nice versus thise units that disengage or you don't want be pitted by. And at 8", where you can use it, you are double tapping with double the bolter fire.

But really, these rules are here so we can use our spiffy BaC models in 40k.

SJ

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
Generally speaking, most Ork units are weaker versions of SM units, but also cost less and so Orks take more models to compensate. MANZ are 40pts each vs 35pts each for terminators.

Meganobs are overpriced. I won't disagree there.

Terminators and Meganobs used to both be priced at 40 points per model. The terminators got a discount, but the meganobs have not. Both either need a discount, or need to have their durability buffed.

I say durability instead of damage output because the iconic concept of Meganobs/Terminators are tough as nails marines. They should be able 65/45 in terms of resilience vs damage output.

Adding FNP for free would help this issue. Adding an extra wound per model would too.

Agreed here.

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'm just glad we can bestow Relentless on a bunch of things that shouldn't have it via the Cataphracti Captain. I'll bet you a week's pay that the designer that wrote those rules had no fething idea what he was doing in the greater scheme of 40K.

He was trying to sell a bunch of new models.

gungo wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

gungo wrote:
what really makes this terminator armour shine is the new reroll save psychic power. 2+/4++ rerollable is really nice. Other then that this is a nice unit nothing amazing.

Well, that and the Slow and Purposeful, the Grenade Harness, and the super-boltguns.

SJ

Slow and purposeful is really only good for a HQ tied to a dev squad or artillery. More of an exploited gimmick then anything else.
Other than that slow and purposeful is a lot of detriments to a non heavy weapon squad of terminators.
Grenade harness is good for cover assaults but it's not like these terminators are fast enough to catch a unit and can't overwatch when they get caught. Great bolt guns within 12in but still bolt guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah they would be doubled out by Melta Guns, but a 5++ was unlikely to help you anyway.

this is completely untrue because statistically that's 1/3 the time in fact this is the exact same reason why people stack painboys with its 50pt tax for a 5+ fnp that still gets doubled out by melta str 8 guns.

Aaaaand 33% isn't exactly reliable. You kinda proved my point.

FNP is a better deal as you can take that in addition to the 2+.