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 Azreal13 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Why on earth do you think a winged DP is going to give you a shooting phase in rapid fire range?

It's trying to charge, bad deep strike, outflanking, the OP deep struck a unit.

Outflanking and DS are not likely for a winged DP, it can charge an average of 19", I'll give you the offensive DS, but without full lists on both sides we can't really say if that's a good idea or not - but at 650 pts those 10 SG are basically the army, whereas it sounds like the DP is pretty basic.

I meant that the OP could be outflanking.


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Cayhn wrote:
I get the avoid CC if possible. But this is not competitive, we just drink a few beers and do whatever we feels like. This time I want to try and beat his priced DP in CC.

On a sidenote, if I would go Tyranids instead, would a Swarmlord crush it?

Almost certainly in my experience.

What kind of DP are we talking about? Because Draigo is the only SM character that can beat a Tz Prince with Robes and Staff. The chances are good that you are looking at a DP with 2++ re-rollable with 6 atx at str 8+, possibly even with FNP (from a random gift), or T8 (from Iron Arm). I once had mine charge Ghazgul and 6 MegaNobs, killed ALL the mega knobs on the charge, then never took a single wound from Ghazgul over 6 rounds when Ghaz finally died.

Now if it isn't a Tz DP, you may continue the discussion.

No wings? Sic a pack of Wulfen with axes or hammers on to it.

Hmm, don't marines get Dreadnought character(s)? Or does it even have to be a character. On foot you might be able to catch it with dread or contemptor. Strength 6 won't even be able to glance your dread with front 13 and a single unsaved str 10 wound and he can kiss his DP good bye. And on the plus side you get to use a dread for a change lol.

Roknar wrote:
Hmm, don't marines get Dreadnought character(s)? Or does it even have to be a character. On foot you might be able to catch it with dread or contemptor. Strength 6 won't even be able to glance your dread with front 13 and a single unsaved str 10 wound and he can kiss his DP good bye. And on the plus side you get to use a dread for a change lol.

Some of us weren't gifted with AV13 Dreads.

Roknar wrote:
Hmm, don't marines get Dreadnought character(s)? Or does it even have to be a character. On foot you might be able to catch it with dread or contemptor. Strength 6 won't even be able to glance your dread with front 13 and a single unsaved str 10 wound and he can kiss his DP good bye. And on the plus side you get to use a dread for a change lol.

Doesn't MCs have Smash with x2 Str?

Only if they sacrifice all but one attack.

How so? Didn't marines get GW contemptors with the calth set? Plastic and all.

Not 40K Marines unless you're using IA supplements.

Roknar wrote:
How so? Didn't marines get GW contemptors with the calth set? Plastic and all.

Yeah Marines. As in vanilla. Every other kind of marine got passed over as usual. BA at least have their own AV13 dread. SW and DA? They sit there wondering where their stuff went.


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 Azreal13 wrote:
Not 40K Marines unless you're using IA supplements.

I believe they get a very limited Contemptor from Angels of Death.

White Scars CM on a Bike with the Shield Eternal and the Scimitar of the Great Khan. WS9 and Ap3 in a challenge. Bonus points if he gets the Hunter's Instincts warlord trait.

pm713 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not 40K Marines unless you're using IA supplements.

I believe they get a very limited Contemptor from Angels of Death.

Furry muff, not a book I've even seen, let alone read!

Oh, well that's lame. I get lost in all the super friends chaos and kind of muck it all together into a loyalist hodgepodge heh.

 Azreal13 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not 40K Marines unless you're using IA supplements.

I believe they get a very limited Contemptor from Angels of Death.

Furry muff, not a book I've even seen, let alone read!

They get a Contemptor with either a Multi-Melta or Kheres and a Power Fist w/ built in Combi-bolter. That's all.

Still a prince will only glance even a normal barebones dread on a 6 and it still strikes at S10. For like 100 points right? Now with extra CC attacks, not a bad deal.

There's plenty of ways for the daemon prince to do much better than that against a dread. If we're talking a real daemon prince with wings and upgrades that is. Iron arm, touch of uncreation, shooting weapons, psychic shooting, staff of change, khorne axe that gives str D on to hits of 6, and of course the good Ole "I don't have to fight you because you only move 6 and don't do much that I'll care about anyways"

Except OP stated this one comes without wings or mastery levels. That makes a dread a viable choice...unless he makes it a khorne prince with the aobf. Though even a captain will struggle against that.

Yeah, the dread is a viable choice... but so is completely ignoring it. I guess if you really want to kill it in cc the dread will more than likely do it.

In cqc Lysander would just instant death it with his s10 attacks. Yeah he has only 3 attacks, but his weapon is master crafted so you will get 2 hits on average. Wounds on 2s then the DP has to make a 5 up invuln or dead. To defend himself Lysander has a 3 up invuln and FNP so good luck killing him lol.

Smash Fether could do it: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_Smashfucker
He's always a good option to annoy your friends (or enemies).

A Daemon Prince is the game's weakest MC, especially the hilariously awful CSM version.

A DP from the actual Daemons codex? Okay, he can be a nasty fether.
But really, the only thing remotely threatening that a CSM DP can bring either DoK + Axe of Blind Fury (lots of attacks, but axe can bite him), OR, DoN MacePrince.

Also note that making a CSM DP into a psyker is actually making him even worse, since you're forced to waste a roll on the garbage CSM spell lores.

Experiment 626 wrote:
A Daemon Prince is the game's weakest MC, especially the hilariously awful CSM version.

A DP from the actual Daemons codex? Okay, he can be a nasty fether.
But really, the only thing remotely threatening that a CSM DP can bring either DoK + Axe of Blind Fury (lots of attacks, but axe can bite him), OR, DoN MacePrince.

Also note that making a CSM DP into a psyker is actually making him even worse, since you're forced to waste a roll on the garbage CSM spell lores.

In a game where Tyranids exist, Daemon Princes aren't the worst. Half the Tyranid ones are easily worse.

They are only str 6 iirc... so, ironclad dreadnoughts should be able to tie them up

I had my smashfether die to a Daemon Prince with the he black mace roll a 6 for his daemon weapon attacks. 12 attacks on the charge ruined him.

Of course, that is an outlier.

Cayhn wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Probably the Big Mac Daddy of the Ultramarines. He has 4 at initiative powerfist attacks at WS6.

I will consider taking Papa S with me as well. It's a small game, only 650p so might be a better fit with the Chapter Master.

In small point games, DPs are even scarier. With flight he can pick the fight. I'd try to shoot him to death. All those SM characters are mediocre in cc. There are exceptions. If your opponent is not a fool, he will avoid them.

If you're looking for a character built for an epic duel, here are my prime choices:

-Lysander: cheapest space marine EW special character, 4 wounds with a 2+/3++/FNP. Oh and he can shove the mighty Fist of Dorn up the DP's a** to insta-gibb him (assuming not buffed)
-Draigo: 'cause owning DPs is what he does
-a SM HQ with the Shield Eternal and a PF or TH would hang in there
-if you want something a bit different: ordo Malleus Inquisitor with daemonhammer, and the Malleus relic might surprise you.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
If you're looking for a character built for an epic duel, here are my prime choices:

-Lysander: cheapest space marine EW special character, 4 wounds with a 2+/3++/FNP. Oh and he can shove the mighty Fist of Dorn up the DP's a** to insta-gibb him (assuming not buffed)
-Draigo: 'cause owning DPs is what he does
-a SM HQ with the Shield Eternal and a PF or TH would hang in there
-if you want something a bit different: ordo Malleus Inquisitor with daemonhammer, and the Malleus relic might surprise you.

Just to expand on this; Draigo has a Chapter Master statline including 4 Wounds and Attacks. His sword gives him Str 7AP2 and Force, he's a ML2 Psyker with Hammerhand (+2 Str) and Banishment to reduce the DP's resilience. He also has his Daemon-Slayer Warlord Trait which I believe gives Preferred Enemy?

 phoenix darkus wrote:
If you're looking for a character built for an epic duel, here are my prime choices:

-Lysander: cheapest space marine EW special character, 4 wounds with a 2+/3++/FNP. Oh and he can shove the mighty Fist of Dorn up the DP's a** to insta-gibb him (assuming not buffed)
-Draigo: 'cause owning DPs is what he does
-a SM HQ with the Shield Eternal and a PF or TH would hang in there

If by epic duel you mean complete and total curb-stomp...

Yea, Black Mace Daemon Prince can be good and is offensively very capable...until you run into all the Eternal Warrior Space Marines with thunder hammers. And then he just falls apart. Sometimes you get lucky and he'll roll a bunch of 1's and 2's for his invulnerable. But don't count on it.

Cayhn wrote:
I've just been introduced to the awesome CC-power of a Daemon Prince. He tore my Tyranids army apart single handedly (granted it was only a 650 point game).

Tomorrow we will have a return game and this flying monstrosity (6 attacks on the charge at I8) needs to be stopped! Now I could of course shoot him down but thats boring. I want to send something Space Mariney at him and see if we can dance for a couple rounds of CC.

Anything in any SM-codex that could stand up to a DP?

I'd imagine Chapter master SmashF*cker could stand a chance. Google that build. Lysander might have a chance. Calgar could if he got lucky. Don't know much about BA is Mephiston still good? For the Wolves perhaps Grimnar?