Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've just been introduced to the awesome CC-power of a Daemon Prince. He tore my Tyranids army apart single handedly (granted it was only a 650 point game).

Tomorrow we will have a return game and this flying monstrosity (6 attacks on the charge at I8) needs to be stopped! Now I could of course shoot him down but thats boring. I want to send something Space Mariney at him and see if we can dance for a couple rounds of CC.

Anything in any SM-codex that could stand up to a DP?

A kitted out Captain or Chapter Master could probably go toe-to-toe with him. Give him a storm shield and the burning blade (plus Artificer Armor), and he should be able to hold his own.

 War Kitten wrote:
A kitted out Captain or Chapter Master could probably go toe-to-toe with him. Give him a storm shield and the burning blade (plus Artificer Armor), and he should be able to hold his own.

Nice idea! That invul will keep him alive for sure.

Draigo for the fluffiness (Force says bye bye to DP).

chapter master Smash would likely win over time. A tooled up Wolf lord would also have a good shot.

Probably the Big Mac Daddy of the Ultramarines. He has 4 at initiative powerfist attacks at WS6.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Probably the Big Mac Daddy of the Ultramarines. He has 4 at initiative powerfist attacks at WS6.

I will consider taking Papa S with me as well. It's a small game, only 650p so might be a better fit with the Chapter Master.

Best try Special Characters. Calgar should be able to tank enough wounds, then hit back with 5-6 PF attacks. Logan is beasty enough. Azrael maybe. Dante has a good chance as well. Kantor no. Lysander yes. Vulkan maybe. Sanguinor yes. Draigo with ease.

Smashfether works best.
4 Wounds, T5, 2+/3++/4+++/5++++ EW(if in a Command Squad with Iron Hands Chapter Tactics)

What's the point of artificer armour on a character specifically decked out to kill a DP? The DP is going to ignore armour. Genuine question btw, Last time I saw "artificer armour" was in 3ed edition in the csm codex.

Wulfen with claws could probably do the trick, or were you just looking for characters?

Roknar wrote:
What's the point of artificer armour on a character specifically decked out to kill a DP? The DP is going to ignore armour. Genuine question btw, Last time I saw "artificer armour" was in 3ed edition in the csm codex.

AA won't help much against the DP, it's there to help protect against small arms fire from the rest of the army. But it's a moot point in the discussion about going against a DP I suppose

I wish to ask the question:

Why are you dead set on fighting the daemon prince in close combat?

1. If it has wings, he'll likely have better mobility than whatever CC unit you bring.

2. Depending on the psychic powers it has, it might be able to kill your CC unit without even fighting it in CC, even if he bothers to engage it at all.

3. Fighting in CC is basically a daemon prince's thing. Have you see a daemon prince's statline?

Asking how to beat a daemon prince in CC with space marines is like asking how to outshoot the tau with space marines.

Why are you so dead set against shooting it? Especially since it has to land and wait for a turn, if it was previously flying, before it can assault?

I see, thanks. Though it might come with a built in invulnerable save perhaps.

A Demon Prince really isn't that hard to kill in CC. You need a powerfist and storm shield. Then once you're in you win.

 Traditio wrote:
I wish to ask the question:

Why are you dead set on fighting the daemon prince in close combat?

1. If it has wings, he'll likely have better mobility than whatever CC unit you bring.

2. Depending on the psychic powers it has, it might be able to kill your CC unit without even fighting it in CC, even if he bothers to engage it at all.

3. Fighting in CC is basically a daemon prince's thing. Have you see a daemon prince's statline?

Asking how to beat a daemon prince in CC with space marines is like asking how to outshoot the tau with space marines.

Why are you so dead set against shooting it?

I think the OP is making the assumption that the DP will find a way to get to him, thus why he was asking for the best way to counter it if he is unable to kill it at range. It's a fair question, as you said DP's can be pretty speedy

pm713 wrote:
A Demon Prince really isn't that hard to kill in CC. You need a powerfist and storm shield. Then once you're in you win.

Are we looking at the same statline?

At any rate, I'm not saying that the thing can't be done. I'm just saying: if you are playing space marines, it's better either to shoot it, blast it with psychic powers, or else, just avoid it entirely.

 Traditio wrote:

pm713 wrote:
A Demon Prince really isn't that hard to kill in CC. You need a powerfist and storm shield. Then once you're in you win.

Are we looking at the same statline?

At any rate, I'm not saying that the thing can't be done. I'm just saying: if you are playing space marines, it's better either to shoot it, blast it with psychic powers, or else, just avoid it entirely.

The statline doesn't matter much. Initiative is irrelevant with a powerfist, T5 is the same and the ws doesn't matter in the slightest against Captains because the chart sucks.

Anyone with force weapon will do the trick if he gets to strike.

 Traditio wrote:

pm713 wrote:
A Demon Prince really isn't that hard to kill in CC. You need a powerfist and storm shield. Then once you're in you win.

Are we looking at the same statline?

At any rate, I'm not saying that the thing can't be done. I'm just saying: if you are playing space marines, it's better either to shoot it, blast it with psychic powers, or else, just avoid it entirely.

You really don't understand this game so you?

A Chapter Master with Ap3 and 2+/3++ has a really good chance of beating a DP H2H, unless Iron Arm is involved, even then it's in with a shout.

War Kitten wrote:I think the OP is making the assumption that the DP will find a way to get to him, thus why he was asking for the best way to counter it if he is unable to kill it at range. It's a fair question, as you said DP's can be pretty speedy

Even then: I'd still recommend sternguard for the daemonprince. Rapidfire hellfire on the round that the daemon prince lands. Assuming UM chapter tactics and a 5 man squad, and further assuming that the daemon prince has 3+ armor:

10/1 X 5/6 X 5/6 X 1/3 = 250/108 unsaved wounds.

10 sternguard (or 5 sternguard and very unlucky rolls for the daemon prince player) and the daemon prince is dead.

 Traditio wrote:

War Kitten wrote:I think the OP is making the assumption that the DP will find a way to get to him, thus why he was asking for the best way to counter it if he is unable to kill it at range. It's a fair question, as you said DP's can be pretty speedy

Even then: I'd still recommend sternguard for the daemonprince. Rapidfire hellfire on the round that the daemon prince lands. Assuming UM chapter tactics and a 5 man squad, and further assuming that the daemon prince has 3+ armor:

10/1 X 5/6 X 5/6 X 1/3 = 250/108 unsaved wounds.

10 sternguard (or 5 sternguard and very unlucky rolls for the daemon prince player) and the daemon prince is dead.

Oh I agree that it's best to try to shoot him to death, but the OP asked for suggestions as to what SM unit (or characters) could take on the DP in CC

Why on earth do you think a winged DP is going to give you a shooting phase in rapid fire range?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Why on earth do you think a winged DP is going to give you a shooting phase in rapid fire range?

It's trying to charge, bad deep strike, outflanking, the OP deep struck a unit.

 Traditio wrote:
I wish to ask the question:

Why are you dead set on fighting the daemon prince in close combat?

1. If it has wings, he'll likely have better mobility than whatever CC unit you bring.

2. Depending on the psychic powers it has, it might be able to kill your CC unit without even fighting it in CC, even if he bothers to engage it at all.

3. Fighting in CC is basically a daemon prince's thing. Have you see a daemon prince's statline?

Asking how to beat a daemon prince in CC with space marines is like asking how to outshoot the tau with space marines.

Why are you so dead set against shooting it? Especially since it has to land and wait for a turn, if it was previously flying, before it can assault?

Good questions

1. It wont. We are playing very few points on a small board. He didn't like the wings last time.

2. Sure, but as with the wings he wont add any mastery levels since he love to use the DP as CC-murder.

3. I have indeed, hence this post

It really depends what daemon prince it is and what rewards it has, the codex it was selected from, and psychic powers.

With the right combination of these variables, I don't think any space marine would stand a chance.

With a slightly less desireable group of these variables, many special characters can kill one.

Khorne will die almost every time to the right marine characters. Tzeentch will probably punk any of them. Nurgle and slaanesh need a bit more help with favorable rewards and powers, but I still think it wouldn't be too hard to set things up so the daemon prince can beat nearly any special character marines can bring. Honestly, if the guy seems happy about his powers and rewards I would try and avoid close combat if I were you.

pm713 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Why on earth do you think a winged DP is going to give you a shooting phase in rapid fire range?

It's trying to charge, bad deep strike, outflanking, the OP deep struck a unit.

Outflanking and DS are not likely for a winged DP, it can charge an average of 19", I'll give you the offensive DS, but without full lists on both sides we can't really say if that's a good idea or not - but at 650 pts those 10 SG are basically the army, whereas it sounds like the DP is pretty basic.

Cayhn wrote:1. If it has wings, he'll likely have better mobility than whatever CC unit you bring.

Oh. That changes things, then.

Missile launchers. Missile launchers are what you want to kill that daemon prince.

Statistically speaking, again, assuming UM chapter tactics:

5/6 X 5/6 X 2/3 X 1/4 = 50/432

9 missile launcher shots, and he's dead.

At 48 inch range.

I get the avoid CC if possible. But this is not competitive, we just drink a few beers and do whatever we feels like. This time I want to try and beat his priced DP in CC.

On a sidenote, if I would go Tyranids instead, would a Swarmlord crush it?

I just noticed your post, if it doesn't have wings then shoot the bloody thing to death! Avoid cc at all costs, just move away from it and it will never catch you. Daemon princes without wings are useless. I'm assuming he also won't be souping him up with rewards and powers either, so enjoy your free kill. One of the easiest things to avoid or kill is a daemon prince without the right upgrades.

I think you'll find the daemon prince will be the least worrisome unit he has, in practice, if that's how he's going to run it.