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Have no words for this anymore, I go to France often, great place, great people. Stay strong.

France just can't catch a break these days.

The hell is wrong with these terrorists?

I didn't hear about this attack until I went out shopping this morning and saw the newspaper headlines. I am appalled.

France is a soft target because they have a fairly large population of ex-Algerian muslims who are suffering the typical effects of second generation discrimination so are more easily radicalised. Also, France has land borders with six or seven other nations, two of which are partly French speaking and make good bases for terrorist cells to operate outside the direct view of French security services.

I don't know how to deal with the situation or how to deal with Daesh in the middle east. I think it is a conflict of cultures and ideas that will take decades to resolve. I mean I don't think it will work to just try and kill the Daesh leaders. It is too easy with modern weapons to pull off this kind of sudden brutal mass killing. You don't need a lot of logistical support. As long as there are some people willing to promote and fund such actions, and some people will to carry them out, it will happen again.

The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

Another sad day where fear and hatred of a few causes carnage on the innocent who are just trying to enjoy the life they have been given.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I didn't hear about this attack until I went out shopping this morning and saw the newspaper headlines. I am appalled.

France is a soft target because they have a fairly large population of ex-Algerian muslims who are suffering the typical effects of second generation discrimination so are more easily radicalised. Also, France has land borders with six or seven other nations, two of which are partly French speaking and make good bases for terrorist cells to operate outside the direct view of French security services.

I don't know how to deal with the situation or how to deal with Daesh in the middle east. I think it is a conflict of cultures and ideas that will take decades to resolve. I mean I don't think it will work to just try and kill the Daesh leaders. It is too easy with modern weapons to pull off this kind of sudden brutal mass killing. You don't need a lot of logistical support. As long as there are some people willing to promote and fund such actions, and some people will to carry them out, it will happen again.

The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

actually for this type of issue, you make sure local populace is having needs met. That includes not discriminating. Integrate normal regular citizens. That helps prevent them from being swayed to the "dark side" if you will. Then you find the people doing the recruiting, planning, and logistical support, and you kill them. don't talk to them, don't understand them, you kill them. Preferably family too, but thats debateable.

I am for what was said earlier. There needs to be decisice, planned, and deliberate action.


France, I am truly saddened by your losses. Families can never know the pain of experienceing this, until they do. I hope that you find solace in each other, and your fellow humans and frenchmen and women. Please stand up, lick your wounds, and come back out stronger. À Tout le Monde

It's honestly becoming scary. I start to become increasingly worried about my own safety.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

 LethalShade wrote:
It's honestly becoming scary. I start to become increasingly worried about my own safety.

Sadly that means their campaign is working :(

 Mr Morden wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
It's honestly becoming scary. I start to become increasingly worried about my own safety.

Sadly that means their campaign is working :(

I'm of the paranoid kind anyway. Tried not to be scared after Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan, but this is a bit too much.

copy error

 LethalShade wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
It's honestly becoming scary. I start to become increasingly worried about my own safety.

Sadly that means their campaign is working :(

I'm of the paranoid kind anyway. Tried not to be scared after Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan, but this is a bit too much.

I don't know the stats but I assume we are all still much more likely to die of natural causes or accidents than terrorism? There is very little we, individually can do about any of these currently.

 redleger wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I didn't hear about this attack until I went out shopping this morning and saw the newspaper headlines. I am appalled.

France is a soft target because they have a fairly large population of ex-Algerian muslims who are suffering the typical effects of second generation discrimination so are more easily radicalised. Also, France has land borders with six or seven other nations, two of which are partly French speaking and make good bases for terrorist cells to operate outside the direct view of French security services.

I don't know how to deal with the situation or how to deal with Daesh in the middle east. I think it is a conflict of cultures and ideas that will take decades to resolve. I mean I don't think it will work to just try and kill the Daesh leaders. It is too easy with modern weapons to pull off this kind of sudden brutal mass killing. You don't need a lot of logistical support. As long as there are some people willing to promote and fund such actions, and some people will to carry them out, it will happen again.

The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

actually for this type of issue, you make sure local populace is having needs met. That includes not discriminating. Integrate normal regular citizens. That helps prevent them from being swayed to the "dark side" if you will. Then you find the people doing the recruiting, planning, and logistical support, and you kill them. don't talk to them, don't understand them, you kill them. Preferably family too, but thats debateable.

I am for what was said earlier. There needs to be decisice, planned, and deliberate action.


France, I am truly saddened by your losses. Families can never know the pain of experienceing this, until they do. I hope that you find solace in each other, and your fellow humans and frenchmen and women. Please stand up, lick your wounds, and come back out stronger. À Tout le Monde

There is more to it then discrimination alone. Middle Eastern groups and countries are actively undermining and in some cases reversing integration of (second generation) immigrants to gain influence over these people for economic and domestic political motives and by doing so increase tensions in Europe. The internet and satellite TV make it much harder for immigrants to cut ties with their (parents) former countries.

 CptJake wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

But a significant possibility as the attack was deliberately targeted against the club which he had previously been too, it was a discriminatory attack. He chose to specifically to attack this location. The attack in France is different as it indiscriminately killed people, regardless of age, faith, colour, creed, race etc. But both are equally horrifying

 Mr Morden wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
It's honestly becoming scary. I start to become increasingly worried about my own safety.

Sadly that means their campaign is working :(

I'm of the paranoid kind anyway. Tried not to be scared after Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan, but this is a bit too much.

I don't know the stats but I assume we are all still much more likely to die of natural causes or accidents than terrorism? There is very little we, individually can do about any of these currently.

Of course I'll probably not die to an attack. But it might escalate in the next years.

I'm so utterly enraged and dismayed. That's three times now in the past year and a half in France alone.

I won't say what I really want to say though. I like here and I want to remain here.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
It's honestly becoming scary. I start to become increasingly worried about my own safety.

Sadly that means their campaign is working :(

I'm of the paranoid kind anyway. Tried not to be scared after Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan, but this is a bit too much.

I don't know the stats but I assume we are all still much more likely to die of natural causes or accidents than terrorism? There is very little we, individually can do about any of these currently.

Yes, deaths/serious injuries in cars are almost certainly likely to be more significant over a period of time. Similar to a plane accident these events cause mass casualties but other issues cause greater numbers of deaths overall (even down to air pollution) but they are less shocking.

Unfortunately it appears we are moving to a time when such acts are becoming more common place. There were similar issues in the UK when the IRA were active and I guess the same advice still applies:- Don't stand near bins, don't stand in crowds, know your exits, be aware of your surroundings. You can take reasonable precautions to keep yourself as safe as possible without impacting on your life too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Antario wrote:

There is more to it then discrimination alone. Middle Eastern groups and countries are actively undermining and in some cases reversing integration of (second generation) immigrants to gain influence over these people for economic and domestic political motives and by doing so increase tensions in Europe. The internet and satellite TV make it much harder for immigrants to cut ties with their (parents) former countries.

There's never a simple answer. It's lack of a desire for integration by all sides, inequalities in pay/justice, intolerance and in some cases education - it breeds frustration with systems that favours the few over the many. That frustration can then be manipulated by populists with simple messages that although may contain a kernel of truth are distorted beyond the facts into 'black and white' solutions. This generates anger in a community to a point some believe that only aggressive action is a solution.

Seems like it was only a matter of time before some terrorists found a way to make use of heavy vehicles to cause carnage. The death toll is immense, especially in relation to the simplicity of the "tools" used - a perfectly legal, rental truck. I hope this won't set a precedent for other attacks like this in crowded areas - if this happens again, there will be a big discussion about when and how big, public events will be safe and what might be cancelled due to the risks. And then, the terrorists will have won again, in a way.

Whirlwind wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

But a significant possibility as the attack was deliberately targeted against the club which he had previously been too, it was a discriminatory attack. He chose to specifically to attack this location. The attack in France is different as it indiscriminately killed people, regardless of age, faith, colour, creed, race etc. But both are equally horrifying

I disagree, the target in Frances was not indiscriminate at all, just as the attack on the Boston Marathon was not. It was the event, in this case the Bastille Day celebration, that was the target.

And again, the FBI says 'nope, not due to homosexuality, we can't find any indicators it was' has more credence than someone like you with no knowledge of the evidence the FBI has found.

Since the shooting at an Orlando nightclub last week that left 49 people dead, reports have emerged that gunman Omar Mateen frequented the gay club, used gay dating apps and had gay lovers.

But the FBI has found no evidence so far to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html

So you can argue theories all day, the evidence does not exist to back them up.

Hy heart goes out to France and those affected.

I am curious as to why they are being targeted so heavily. I feel there is some subtle strategy or manipulation I am not seeing.

Usually has less to do with overarching strategy and more with ease of operation. That is why terrorists tend to strike civilian targets, for example, and not heavily guarded fortifications. Public events and celebrations make ideal targets because the number of people both makes for more human targets and less attention to any given individual. Events also routinely have large trucks for supplies, setup, etc. so a heavy vehicle doesn't immediately stand out.

A few Moderate Muslims on scene flashing the V for victory.

https://sendvid.com/o8nho6o0

 Witzkatz wrote:
Seems like it was only a matter of time before some terrorists found a way to make use of heavy vehicles to cause carnage.

Seems to mimic recent Hamas attacks with vehicles, but DaIsh being who they are, upped the target and attack mechanism a bit.

One example: http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Terrorist-who-ran-down-infant-wounded-10-others-in-capital-affiliated-with-Hamas-437427

Not the only one, they've used this several times recently.

 CptJake wrote:
But the FBI has found no evidence so far to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html

So you can argue theories all day, the evidence does not exist to back them up.

That same article also says the FBI found no direct links to ISIL, either. The FBI officially has no idea whatsoever why he did what he did. Seems about right for the FBI.

 Ouze wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
But the FBI has found no evidence so far to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html

So you can argue theories all day, the evidence does not exist to back them up.

That same article also says the FBI found no direct links to ISIL, either. The FBI officially has no idea whatsoever why he did what he did. Seems about right for the FBI.

There will almost never be direct ties to DaIsh in US attacks, at least not in the near future. They will be 'inspired by' and executed by self/internet radicalized folks. Nothing new or surprising there to be honest.

When the perp goes out of his way to declare his loyalty during the attack, as Dabiq and other DaIsh propaganda sources ask these 'lone wolves' to do, well, sometimes that just may be an indicator. Just as lack of gay dating apps and gay lovers is an indicator.

 Ouze wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
But the FBI has found no evidence so far to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html

So you can argue theories all day, the evidence does not exist to back them up.

That same article also says the FBI found no direct links to ISIL, either. The FBI officially has no idea whatsoever why he did what he did.

Well... other than the shooter actually calling into local 911station and saying 'My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State..'

But, yeah, we have no fething clue... the reasons might as well be [OMITTED].

 jmurph wrote:
Usually has less to do with overarching strategy and more with ease of operation. That is why terrorists tend to strike civilian targets, for example, and not heavily guarded fortifications. Public events and celebrations make ideal targets because the number of people both makes for more human targets and less attention to any given individual. Events also routinely have large trucks for supplies, setup, etc. so a heavy vehicle doesn't immediately stand out.

Thanks for explaining the definition of terrorism. My question was about why FRANCE SPECIFICALLY is being targted so heavily compared to say the US or Germany or Britain.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
A few Moderate Muslims on scene flashing the V for victory.

https://sendvid.com/o8nho6o0

Says it all really.

 whembly wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
But the FBI has found no evidence so far to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html

So you can argue theories all day, the evidence does not exist to back them up.

That same article also says the FBI found no direct links to ISIL, either. The FBI officially has no idea whatsoever why he did what he did.

Well... other than the shooter actually calling into local 911station and saying 'My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State..'

But, yeah, we have no fething clue... the reasons might as well be [OMITTED].

Maybe he was a hardcore ISIL person and this was actually an attack driven by long simmering, self radicalized islam (which the FBI didn't find). Maybe he was gay and repressed, like his ex wife and dozens of people said (which the FBI didn't find). Maybe it's a little of both, and the FBI - which, in every current discussion of Hillary Clinton is judged to be unable to pour water out of a boot if instructions were printed on the heel - didn't find a burner cell phone he tossed, or doesn't realize that if you delete snapchat or grindr or what have you, it's gone (the FBI didn't even check social media accounts until nearly 2014, ffs).

Ultimately I guess it doesn't really matter, but I don't think there is really proof positive for anything. He's dead.

 SickSix wrote:

 jmurph wrote:
Usually has less to do with overarching strategy and more with ease of operation. That is why terrorists tend to strike civilian targets, for example, and not heavily guarded fortifications. Public events and celebrations make ideal targets because the number of people both makes for more human targets and less attention to any given individual. Events also routinely have large trucks for supplies, setup, etc. so a heavy vehicle doesn't immediately stand out.

Thanks for explaining the definition of terrorism. My question was about why FRANCE SPECIFICALLY is being targted so heavily compared to say the US or Germany or Britain.

UK has a very high security level. We may seem more passive but security is solid.
France has massive land borders and UK has the channel. You gave to pass ID checks to enter...
France is far easier to infiltrate..

 SickSix wrote:
Thanks for explaining the definition of terrorism. My question was about why FRANCE SPECIFICALLY is being targted so heavily compared to say the US or Germany or Britain.

One idea from earlier in the thread:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
France is a soft target because they have a fairly large population of ex-Algerian muslims who are suffering the typical effects of second generation discrimination so are more easily radicalised. Also, France has land borders with six or seven other nations, two of which are partly French speaking and make good bases for terrorist cells to operate outside the direct view of French security services.s.