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Rosebuddy wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
It should be pointed out that there were indeed middle classes in the Middle East until the US decided to blow them up. Iraq and Syria would like a word.

Right... and we've blown up Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, etc... Just keep waving that "blame Murica" stick. It'll get you somewhere.

Saudi Arabia is a major sponsor of sectarian terrorism and supported by the US. Iraq was smashed apart by the invasion and IS arose from the ashes as a direct consequence. When there is no more society and when there is still a massive need to resist military occupation then you get horrible gak happening. You don't appreciate how deeply fethed up things get when society stops existing.

ISIS roots are more in the inability for the west to pick a side in the Syrian Civil War. Keep it up though.

nkelsch wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:


Or just stop bringing them in.
All these migrants never were going to do anything for the economy except put a drain on it.
I mean north america doesn't seem to have Europe's no go Muslim zones, but I know a few places in Ottawa that are pretty close.

Actually, we are draining the top 10% of the Muslim countries to the US. We get the educated and wealthy here and they do damn fine. most of the people who got to the US from iraq back in the day have assimilated fine while maintaining their religion and culture.

The reason the US is involved is because the UK, France and Russia basically colonized the middle east, crapped it up, fought proxy wars with militants and then abandoned it... And the US cleans up Racist imperialist Europe's mistakes because we are related to them via culture and blood. You can't fix squat with only looking back 20 years, this is a centuries old issue in the making. Most of the conflicts in the 20th century is a direct result of a vacuum after imperialist European powers finally relinquished territory that they never should have had in the first place.

And the US has no official language... to claim it does is wrong and bigotry. We allow people to speak whatever they want here. The only reason English is seen as the main language is because we are an English colony and right now in the world it is the international language of business. (which is why it is spoken all over the world)

All of this 'Be amurica damnit, or else' is what causes people to resist integration. That is what France is showing us spectacularly right now. I am glad we are a melting pot and not a clone factory like European nations.

When you talk about the "clone factory" of "European nations", I wonder to how many countries and cities you've been over here? Places like Berlin and Cologne have been famous for being melting pots - in good and bad ways - for decades. And integration policies and concepts between European countries vary vastly, as has been shown during the refugee crisis.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ feeder

Again, name me an Islamic country you'd be happy to live in.

I'm perfectly happy where I am. What are you hoping to achieve with this question?

nkelsch wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:


Or just stop bringing them in.
All these migrants never were going to do anything for the economy except put a drain on it.
I mean north america doesn't seem to have Europe's no go Muslim zones, but I know a few places in Ottawa that are pretty close.

Actually, we are draining the top 10% of the Muslim countries to the US. We get the educated and wealthy here and they do damn fine. most of the people who got to the US from iraq back in the day have assimilated fine while maintaining their religion and culture.

The reason the US is involved is because the UK, France and Russia basically colonized the middle east, crapped it up, fought proxy wars with militants and then abandoned it... And the US cleans up Racist imperialist Europe's mistakes because we are related to them via culture and blood. You can't fix squat with only looking back 20 years, this is a centuries old issue in the making. Most of the conflicts in the 20th century is a direct result of a vacuum after imperialist European powers finally relinquished territory that they never should have had in the first place.

And the US has no official language... to claim it does is wrong and bigotry. We allow people to speak whatever they want here. The only reason English is seen as the main language is because we are an English colony and right now in the world it is the international language of business. (which is why it is spoken all over the world)

All of this 'Be amurica damnit, or else' is what causes people to resist integration. That is what France is showing us spectacularly right now. I am glad we are a melting pot and not a clone factory like European nations.

97% of the population here speaks English....English is our official language in every way that matters. For political reasons it is not....officially.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 djones520 wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
It should be pointed out that there were indeed middle classes in the Middle East until the US decided to blow them up. Iraq and Syria would like a word.

Right... and we've blown up Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, etc... Just keep waving that "blame Murica" stick. It'll get you somewhere.

Saudi Arabia is a major sponsor of sectarian terrorism and supported by the US. Iraq was smashed apart by the invasion and IS arose from the ashes as a direct consequence. When there is no more society and when there is still a massive need to resist military occupation then you get horrible gak happening. You don't appreciate how deeply fethed up things get when society stops existing.

ISIS roots are more in the inability for the west to pick a side in the Syrian Civil War. Keep it up though.

You would think Americans would be good at picking the lesser of two evils.

 feeder wrote:
I'm perfectly happy where I am. What are you hoping to achieve with this question?

Since you're defending Islam I'd love for you to tell us about some of its success stories. Name me an Islamic country that allows freedom of religion, treats women equally etc that doesn't require a military dictatorship to do so.

ISIS goes way beyond America. No one in the West wanted to get involved. Everyone was so gung ho about Libya, but when it came to Syria, no one could care less. Now we reap what our inaction sowed.

 LethalShade wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Stories appearing now that the French government suppressed details about the Bataclan massacre that are revolting, victims were tortured in the most horrendous sexual ways with eyes and genitals being stabbed or cut off in men and women. Seems this is coming out now because some are fed up of hiding details after the attacks yesterday.

What ?!

Got any source backing it up ?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/15/french-lawmakers-told-bataclan-terrorists-tortured-disemboweled-victims.html

Anything else than fething Fox News ?

Anything actually trustworthy ?

Is this legit?
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/rap-enq/r3922-t2.asp

text removed.

Reds8n

 whembly wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Stories appearing now that the French government suppressed details about the Bataclan massacre that are revolting, victims were tortured in the most horrendous sexual ways with eyes and genitals being stabbed or cut off in men and women. Seems this is coming out now because some are fed up of hiding details after the attacks yesterday.

What ?!

Got any source backing it up ?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/15/french-lawmakers-told-bataclan-terrorists-tortured-disemboweled-victims.html

Anything else than fething Fox News ?

Anything actually trustworthy ?

Is this legit?
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/rap-enq/r3922-t2.asp

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/15/french-terror-cover-up-bataclan-attack-included-gr/

http://nypost.com/2016/07/15/horrifying-details-of-the-bataclan-theatre-massacre-revealed/

It's not like it was hard to find, but I guess if you get your chance to get some Foxnews hate in...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 feeder wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 feeder wrote:
I'm perfectly happy where I am. What are you hoping to achieve with this question?

Since you're defending Islam I'd love for you to tell us about some of its success stories. Name me an Islamic country that allows freedom of religion, treats women equally etc that doesn't require a military dictatorship to do so.

I'm not defending Islam. I'm attacking ignorant cretins who are stroking their hate boner in a public forum.

It's unseemly.

Might want to let your hate boner for ignorant cretins settle down a bit. I do believe such comments are a clear violation of Rule #1.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 feeder wrote:
I'm perfectly happy where I am. What are you hoping to achieve with this question?

Since you're defending Islam I'd love for you to tell us about some of its success stories. Name me an Islamic country that allows freedom of religion, treats women equally etc that doesn't require a military dictatorship to do so.

Islamic government =/= Islamic religion.

There have been and still are many "secular" and "christian" governments which have restricted their citizens rights in a similar or the same way as Islamic governments.

 whembly wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Stories appearing now that the French government suppressed details about the Bataclan massacre that are revolting, victims were tortured in the most horrendous sexual ways with eyes and genitals being stabbed or cut off in men and women. Seems this is coming out now because some are fed up of hiding details after the attacks yesterday.

What ?!

Got any source backing it up ?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/15/french-lawmakers-told-bataclan-terrorists-tortured-disemboweled-victims.html

Anything else than fething Fox News ?

Anything actually trustworthy ?

Is this legit?
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/rap-enq/r3922-t2.asp

Okay, I just read a good part of it. It's absolutely legit and they say nothing can confirm that the terrorists did mutilate hostages during the Bataclan attacks, making such claims bogus.

No knife or similar weapon was found at the scene, and the corpses were mutilated by both gunfire and explosives.

The mutilation claims come from the father of one victim claiming that his son was disemboweled and castrated in a letter. Nothing more.

 djones520 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Stories appearing now that the French government suppressed details about the Bataclan massacre that are revolting, victims were tortured in the most horrendous sexual ways with eyes and genitals being stabbed or cut off in men and women. Seems this is coming out now because some are fed up of hiding details after the attacks yesterday.

What ?!

Got any source backing it up ?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/15/french-lawmakers-told-bataclan-terrorists-tortured-disemboweled-victims.html

Anything else than fething Fox News ?

Anything actually trustworthy ?

Is this legit?
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/rap-enq/r3922-t2.asp

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/15/french-terror-cover-up-bataclan-attack-included-gr/

http://nypost.com/2016/07/15/horrifying-details-of-the-bataclan-theatre-massacre-revealed/

It's not like it was hard to find, but I guess if you get your chance to get some Foxnews hate in...

Huh. when I Google 'bataclan torture' all I get is heat street, nypost and infowars.

"Fox hate" is not irrational. The organization has been shown again and again to misrepresent facts or straight up lie.

Regardless, that is seriously disturbing.

 djones520 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 feeder wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 feeder wrote:
I'm perfectly happy where I am. What are you hoping to achieve with this question?

Since you're defending Islam I'd love for you to tell us about some of its success stories. Name me an Islamic country that allows freedom of religion, treats women equally etc that doesn't require a military dictatorship to do so.

I'm not defending Islam. I'm attacking ignorant cretins who are stroking their hate boner in a public forum.

It's unseemly.

Might want to let your hate boner for ignorant cretins settle down a bit. I do believe such comments are a clear violation of Rule #1.

You're right. Perhaps I shall excuse myself from this thread.

 djones520 wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:

Saudi Arabia is a major sponsor of sectarian terrorism and supported by the US. Iraq was smashed apart by the invasion and IS arose from the ashes as a direct consequence. When there is no more society and when there is still a massive need to resist military occupation then you get horrible gak happening. You don't appreciate how deeply fethed up things get when society stops existing.

ISIS roots are more in the inability for the west to pick a side in the Syrian Civil War. Keep it up though.

The Islamic State, previously the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, previously the Islamic State of Iraq, previously al-Qaida in Iraq and formed from multiple groups participating in the Iraqi insurgency following the invasion. The Syrian civil war helped them grow but the collapse of Iraq is at least as important a factor in making them what they are.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
We fight them through methodical espionage, crime fighting, and intelligence/black ops stuff. Anything more is ineffective and plays into their goals.

In the meantime, we pretty much ignore them and keeping doing what we have been doing.

Choosing not to react is just as much an action as doing something.

I have to call bull on that. When I had trouble in school from these two gakkers, I was told to just ignore them. But this only encouraged them. You want to know how I eventually stopped them? I busted the mouthier of the two fethers face open.

Now I'm not saying that we should go into the Middle East. That's not going to work. What I am saying though is that we shouldn't lie back and take it either.

I guess crime fighting, espionage, intelligence work, and black ops is "just lying back and taking it" now-a-days.

Escalation for everyone!

Those are just plasters. They only keep lid on it. If you want to actually get rid of it, you'll have to fight back.

 CptJake wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

Do you have a citation?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

Do you have a citation?

He needs a citation to prove that someone who also didn't use a citation was wrong?
[url]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-evidence-so-far-to-suggest-orlando-shooter-targeted-club-because-it-was-gay/2016/07/14/a7528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html[/url]

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

Do you have a citation?

And where was yours for your claim?

well just saw a report think like 84 dead 10 of whom were children, even the USA lost some people there. my heart goes to France on the losses they suffered on Bastille day.

on a side note this incident has already effected security at the National conventions.

Obama better force the Refugee issue. That would seriously play into Trump party.

Now the million dollar question. How far is the West and the US going to go to prevent this from happening again of this scale eh

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Those are just plasters. They only keep lid on it. If you want to actually get rid of it, you'll have to fight back.

Can you point me to a successful military campaign to end terrorism in recent years? I would like to read up on them.

Also, this attacker does not seem to have ISIS ties yet. Some one have a link with more info on that?

 Easy E wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Those are just plasters. They only keep lid on it. If you want to actually get rid of it, you'll have to fight back.

Can you point me to a successful military campaign to end terrorism in recent years? I would like to read up on them.

Also, this attacker does not seem to have ISIS ties yet. Some one have a link with more info on that?

Unfortunately it isn't the military that is the fault, it is the fault of international politics. We are to afraid of what might happen if we remove certain governments/leaders that we allow a nascent level of terrorism to exist.

Why are you refering at it as bastille day everywhere ?
It is not well known, even in France, but july 14th isn't about the storming of the Bastille, but one year after, the Federation day.

 djones520 wrote:
ISIS goes way beyond America. No one in the West wanted to get involved. Everyone was so gung ho about Libya, but when it came to Syria, no one could care less. Now we reap what our inaction sowed.

While we can never say for sure what would have happened, man, I do not think we could have done anything positive in Syria. If we had gotten involved it would just be another endless quagmire of death and destruction with more or less the same stuff happening. I think our action would have sowed about the same as our inaction did, but at least it didn't cost nearly as many American lives to do so. Sometimes you really can't solve a problem - even now with the benefit of hindsight I feel that way.

But, who knows.

 Ouze wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
ISIS goes way beyond America. No one in the West wanted to get involved. Everyone was so gung ho about Libya, but when it came to Syria, no one could care less. Now we reap what our inaction sowed.

While we can never say for sure what would have happened, man, I do not think we could have done anything positive in Syria. If we had gotten involved it would just be another endless quagmire of death and destruction with more or less the same stuff happening. I think our action would have sowed about the same as our inaction did, but at least it didn't cost nearly as many American lives to do so. Sometimes you really can't solve a problem - even now with the benefit of hindsight I feel that way.

But, who knows.

I compare the US led war in Iraq to Vietnam, not in the quagmire way that most people do, but in the reluctance of politicians to completely carry out the war. Just like in Vietnam, we know the enemy was using another country as a staging ground, and our politicians didn't have the testicular fortitude to deal with that country directly. We knew insurgents were flocking across the border with syria, we knew they were using Syria as a staging ground and an area to retreat to for safety, but we never successfully stopped that.

Now whether or not that would have completely stopped the rise of ISIS is up for debate, but it would most likely have been a step in the right direction.

 SickSix wrote:
Not a bad plan SemperMortis. Obviously it needs to be tweaked.

It is a problem when immigrants are allowed to not assimilate and firm their own quasi states within the state. Look at Michigan for an example. I believe it's Dearborn that muslims have taken over.

Border security. It's a joke in the US right now. The entire 'War on Terror' looks like a joke when you realize we never sealed our borders after 9-11.

Language. Immigrants should learn the language of the land, not the other way around. Our cops shouldn't have to be bilingual just to do their job.

If our borders were tight and immigrants assimilated, we wouldn't have to worry about terrorism.

I couldn't agree more. Trump's wall is starting to look like a better and better idea, yes?

People who immigrate into another country shouldn't form a little "country within a country" like some European cities' Sharia no-go zones. They should go to a country to become part of that country, not to bring their old country with them. To me it's ok for them to group up some and become friends with other immigrants, but they can do that and still integrate with their new home and countrymen. Take my hometown: we have a fair number of Bosnian immigrants here. Many, if not most, of them live in a couple of apartment complexes near where I live. They all seem to know each other and are friends. However, they have done their best to integrate with American society, including learning English and getting jobs (I've got several Bosnian coworkers and they are very nice people). Immigration is part of what has made America great. It just needs to be handled right. And that does not mean giving amnesty to all the illegal immigrants who have made it into America. Illegals need to be thrown out (okay, not thrown, but escorted back to wherever they came from). If people want to come to America, they should do so through legal channels so they can be vetted.

One of my personal pet peeves is the immigrants who come to the US, don't bother to learn much, if any English, don't have jobs, and yet still know how to get all the government benefits like food stamps. I think we all know why they came over...

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I couldn't agree more. Trump's wall is starting to look like a better and better idea, yes?

No, it's still a dumb as feth idea.

Since we've managed to get to page 7 without a Godwin: you know who else advocated wiping out huge groups of people that he saw as a threat to Der Vaterland, and who is now synonymous with evil?

SemperMortis wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The Orlando attack was prompted more by self-hatred of the man's repressed homosexuality than any terrorist motive, BTW. Not to lessen the impact on the victims.

That is less than proven. In fact, the FBI came out and stated there was nothing pointing them to that as a motive at this point.

Do you have a citation?

He needs a citation to prove that someone who also didn't use a citation was wrong?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-evidence-so-far-to-suggest-orlando-shooter-targeted-club-because-it-was-gay/2016/07/14/a7528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-evidence-so-far-to-suggest-orlando-shooter-targeted-club-because-it-was-gay/2016/07/14/a7528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html

Thank you.

If only some people could provide citations when they refer to official documents to support their point, this board might be a better place.

To be clear, I stated an opinion of my own. That requires no citation.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
To be clear, I stated an opinion of my own. That requires no citation.

You really didn't phrase it as a statement of opinion versus a statement of fact. Not being clear invites people to call on you to provide evidence to back up what you post.