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 feeder wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Actually, DaIsh gains recruits from having successful attacks, not from any western response, overdone or not. Study their propaganda and recruiting material.

People become radicalised because someone 7,000 miles away shot up a night club, not because a drone blew up their mother?

That seems counter intuitive.

It would also be counter intuitive that Drones capping a few hundred innocents a year would make a bigger impact on how Muslims perceive DaIsh than the few thousand innocents a year DaIsh kills.

Which is why, if you study the propaganda and recruiting, you'll find themes like GITMO and drones are supporting themes when they are used, and they are not used nearly as often as western press would have you believe. In fact, one of the targets of 'drones' as a theme is western gov'ts, and not potential recruits in some border region of Pakistan.

 feeder wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Not again.... France does not deserve this. No one does.

Dakka does not let me type words to sum up my opinion of the attacker

We are at war. Our cities are a frontline.

But no one wants to fight the enemy, name the enemy, do anything about that except lie back and accept terrorism will just be a thing in the west.

what and get used to watching people die. families rboken.
its about time we did something.. there has to be weakness to these fanatics, there has to be somthing that they rely on

They rely on our continued presence in their backyard. We need to GTFO and let the ME go through it's own Reformation.

This really is a salient point. The ME has been trying to sort itself out since the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire, and between Sykes Picot and the subsequent inheritor regimes, few of these nations have really made any sense given the ethnic and cultural layouts present. Having been constantly pressurized and compressed for decades, its all now starting to organically sort itself out through violence. Constantly inserting ourselves back into this mess has lots of dangers.

 feeder wrote:

Got any real sources? heat street, daily mail and infowars are not sources.

I generally agree on daily mail and infowars being subpar at best, I don't know anything about Heatstreet though, what's up with them?

 Witzkatz wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Actually, DaIsh gains recruits from having successful attacks, not from any western response, overdone or not. Study their propaganda and recruiting material.

Recuits in the west, I agree. However, I'm pretty sure that those people living in or close to their territories in the middle east are more easily swayed to join them when a stealth bomber accidentally hits a few children along with the local milita leader. That's something more direct for the local populace to get angry about, I'd think - especially for those on the fence on whether or not ISIS is a good or a bad thing for the region. Because I'm pretty sure their propaganda machine on milking such collateral damage is running pretty smoothly by now.

Again, they really don't milk that propaganda much. Those same villagers see or hear of DaIsh slaughtering thousands of fellow Muslims. If killing a handful of innocents was useful for recruiting, the Anti-DaIsh coalition would be filled with folks eager to get vengeance.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Not again.... France does not deserve this. No one does.

Dakka does not let me type words to sum up my opinion of the attacker

We are at war. Our cities are a frontline.

But no one wants to fight the enemy, name the enemy, do anything about that except lie back and accept terrorism will just be a thing in the west.

what and get used to watching people die. families rboken.
its about time we did something.. there has to be weakness to these fanatics, there has to be somthing that they rely on

Or just stop bringing them in.
All these migrants never were going to do anything for the economy except put a drain on it.
I mean north america doesn't seem to have Europe's no go Muslim zones, but I know a few places in Ottawa that are pretty close.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:

Completely closed borders are also basically impossible for economical reasons, I hope we can all agree on that.

We vociferously disagree.

I would argue that, when actually taken in the big picture, the number of people that are killed or injured in these terrorist attacks are actually very small as a meangingful mortality source, despite being horrific and tragic.

How much resources are worth investing in expensive defense systems and organizations that would be involved in sealing large national borders, while making commerce, travel, and business much more difficult and expensive, to save about as many lives as are lost to residential pools? How many more lives would be saved through that same investment in infrastructure, research, healthcare, etc?

I would argue that if you close the fething border you'd close it against the cartels as well, which represent a significant threat to the US. Also helps to keep out the billions in illegal drugs, human smuggling, illegal immigration etc. etc. etc.

And when has any tightly controlled border ever stopped these things? People, goods, and messages made it through the Berlin wall, through the Soviet Border Guards, past the sealed borders of North Korea, and countless other such examples, while such sealed borders dramatically hobbled the economic capability of these nations in the process.

You have to ask yourself, when is the time for political correctness over and the time for hard questions to begin?
When do you look at the only group of people coming into the west with no desire to assimilate, and who are actively bringing in 3rd world barbaric beliefs.
We hold up our ideals of LGBT rights and equality to women, all that, things Islam does not want, does not believe in.
How many people have to die before people get the point, that these "Not all Muslims" and mindless hashtags or changing your facebook avatar, aren't working and never will work.
It does nothing.
How many times will this happen before people stop shouting islamaphobe when people bring up the facts, the cold hard truth...

Actually almost no one made it over the Berlin Wall once established, and the North Korean border is hardly sealed on the Manchurian side.


Where there is a will there is a way.

Well. Time to start prepping. Think we're being drawn in a false sense of security by watching France get hammered and some operative/lonewolf/radicalized individual going to try to top all previous killing here in the US

MrDwhitey wrote:

 feeder wrote:

Got any real sources? heat street, daily mail and infowars are not sources.

I generally agree on daily mail and infowars being subpar at best, I don't know anything about Heatstreet though, what's up with them?

Their tagline wrote:An engaging new destination for news, features, opinion and commentary. Free speech celebrated. No safe spaces

.
They appear to be a sub-channel of Fox.

Rainbow Dash wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Not again.... France does not deserve this. No one does.

Dakka does not let me type words to sum up my opinion of the attacker

We are at war. Our cities are a frontline.

But no one wants to fight the enemy, name the enemy, do anything about that except lie back and accept terrorism will just be a thing in the west.

what and get used to watching people die. families rboken.
its about time we did something.. there has to be weakness to these fanatics, there has to be somthing that they rely on

Or just stop bringing them in.
All these migrants never were going to do anything for the economy except put a drain on it.
I mean north america doesn't seem to have Europe's no go Muslim zones, but I know a few places in Ottawa that are pretty close.

I despair that you have my flag and handle of my daughter's favorite Pony. Your disgusting racism has no place in rational discourse. Give your fething head a shake.

Islam isn't a race.

@ Rainbow Dash

I think most people are slowly starting to wake up. Not fast enough but we're getting there. If Marine le Pen doesn't win after this I'd be very surprised.

And yes, Islam is not a race. It's an ideology. Anyone who says 'it's racist to criticise Islam' is a dangerous idiot imo.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Stories appearing now that the French government suppressed details about the Bataclan massacre that are revolting, victims were tortured in the most horrendous sexual ways with eyes and genitals being stabbed or cut off in men and women. Seems this is coming out now because some are fed up of hiding details after the attacks yesterday.

What ?!

Got any source backing it up ?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/15/french-lawmakers-told-bataclan-terrorists-tortured-disemboweled-victims.html

Anything else than fething Fox News ?

Anything actually trustworthy ?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Rainbow Dash

I think most people are slowly starting to wake up. Not fast enough but we're getting there. If Marine le Pen doesn't win after this I'd be very surprised.

And yes, Islam is not a race. It's an ideology. Anyone who says 'it's racist to criticise Islam' is a dangerous idiot imo.

It's an ideology that hates the west and isn't interested in any of our values.

 Jihadin wrote:
Well. Time to start prepping. Think we're being drawn in a false sense of security by watching France get hammered and some operative/lonewolf/radicalized individual going to try to top all previous killing here in the US

I have a full auto wiener dog cocked and ready, and a can and a half of SPAM that is only slightly over the sell by date.

 Frazzled wrote:
Actually almost no one made it over the Berlin Wall once established, and the North Korean border is hardly sealed on the Manchurian side.

people still did make it through the Berlin wall however, even if not many, and both people and things make it past the South Korean border too. What did these walls and borders do for these nations in terms of security? Not much. They did however kneecap their ability to trade.

Where there is a will there is a way.

that goes for breaking walls too. Even where there are walls in the US, they are undermined and tunneled under. Same thing in Israel.

More to the point, they do nothing about the domestic radical, one who was born in the US or Europe (or lived there from a very young age) and radicalized on their own, and appear to form the large bulk of such perpetrators, such as in Paris, Orlando, San Bernadino, and the 2005 London attacks.

Right I am not talking ab out trying to keep out the 28 days later virus I am talking about getting control of our border.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:


Or just stop bringing them in.
All these migrants never were going to do anything for the economy except put a drain on it.
I mean north america doesn't seem to have Europe's no go Muslim zones, but I know a few places in Ottawa that are pretty close.

Actually, we are draining the top 10% of the Muslim countries to the US. We get the educated and wealthy here and they do damn fine. most of the people who got to the US from iraq back in the day have assimilated fine while maintaining their religion and culture.

The reason the US is involved is because the UK, France and Russia basically colonized the middle east, crapped it up, fought proxy wars with militants and then abandoned it... And the US cleans up Racist imperialist Europe's mistakes because we are related to them via culture and blood. You can't fix squat with only looking back 20 years, this is a centuries old issue in the making. Most of the conflicts in the 20th century is a direct result of a vacuum after imperialist European powers finally relinquished territory that they never should have had in the first place.

And the US has no official language... to claim it does is wrong and bigotry. We allow people to speak whatever they want here. The only reason English is seen as the main language is because we are an English colony and right now in the world it is the international language of business. (which is why it is spoken all over the world)

All of this 'Be amurica damnit, or else' is what causes people to resist integration. That is what France is showing us spectacularly right now. I am glad we are a melting pot and not a clone factory like European nations.

 Frazzled wrote:
Right I am not talking ab out trying to keep out the 28 days later virus I am talking about getting control of our border.

that goes for breaking walls too. Even where there are walls in the US, they are undermined and tunneled under. Same thing in Israel.

Whats what the pre-registered artillery followed by droid series 209 is for.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Rainbow Dash

I think most people are slowly starting to wake up. Not fast enough but we're getting there. If Marine le Pen doesn't win after this I'd be very surprised.

And yes, Islam is not a race. It's an ideology. Anyone who says 'it's racist to criticise Islam' is a dangerous idiot imo.

It's an ideology that hates the west and isn't interested in any of our values.

Neither of you understand Islam as a racially neutral thing and neither of you care that Muslims are the primary victims of Islamic extremist organisations and the bulk of armed resistance against them. You're treating a globally spanning religion with countless divisions among multiple cultures as one monolithic entity. You aren't criticising Islam, you're advocating for eternal war against a poorly defined enemy. You are the dangerous idiots.

nkelsch wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:


Or just stop bringing them in.
All these migrants never were going to do anything for the economy except put a drain on it.
I mean north america doesn't seem to have Europe's no go Muslim zones, but I know a few places in Ottawa that are pretty close.

Actually, we are draining the top 10% of the Muslim countries to the US. We get the educated and wealthy here and they do damn fine. most of the people who got to the US from iraq back in the day have assimilated fine while maintaining their religion and culture.

The reason the US is involved is because the UK, France and Russia basically colonized the middle east, crapped it up, fought proxy wars with militants and then abandoned it... And the US cleans up Racist imperialist Europe's mistakes because we are related to them via culture and blood. You can't fix squat with only looking back 20 years, this is a centuries old issue in the making. Most of the conflicts in the 20th century is a direct result of a vacuum after imperialist European powers finally relinquished territory that they never should have had in the first place.

And the US has no official language... to claim it does is wrong and bigotry. We allow people to speak whatever they want here. The only reason English is seen as the main language is because we are an English colony and right now in the world it is the international language of business. (which is why it is spoken all over the world)

All of this 'Be amurica damnit, or else' is what causes people to resist integration. That is what France is showing us spectacularly right now. I am glad we are a melting pot and not a clone factory like European nations.

I'm not American. In Canada we have official languages.
And by official I mean used by the government, I should be able to be served in one of Canada's official languages, that's what the official languages act is for.

It should be pointed out that there were indeed middle classes in the Middle East until the US decided to blow them up. Iraq and Syria would like a word.

@ Rosebuddy

You're Swedish right?

How well has Islam integrated into your country?

While you're at it; name me one Islamic country you'd be happy to live in.

Rainbow Dash wrote:Islam isn't a race.

Deflecting with a technicality, and not addressing my point? I appreciate the de facto capitulation.

Future War Cultist wrote:@ Rainbow Dash

I think most people are slowly starting to wake up. Not fast enough but we're getting there. If Marine le Pen doesn't win after this I'd be very surprised.

And yes, Islam is not a race. It's an ideology. Anyone who says 'it's racist to criticise Islam' is a dangerous idiot imo.

I haven't seen anyone in here say 'it's racist to criticise Islam'. I have however, seen someone say "All immigrants are a drain on resources" which is out and out racism.

Dangerous idiots advocate the annihilation of an entire people.

Rainbow Dash wrote:It's an ideology that hates the west and isn't interested in any of our values.

Radical, weaponised Islam, yes. Run of the mill Islam, that is practiced by billions worldwide, no.

Rosebuddy wrote:
It should be pointed out that there were indeed middle classes in the Middle East until the US decided to blow them up. Iraq and Syria would like a word.

Right... and we've blown up Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, etc... Just keep waving that "blame Murica" stick. It'll get you somewhere.

@ feeder

Again, name me an Islamic country you'd be happy to live in.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ feeder

Again, name me an Islamic country you'd be happy to live in.

Kyrgyzstan.

I had an assignment to Turkey a number of years ago that got cancelled. I was very excited about going there.

But... if you'll notice, I'm listing secular Islamic countries.

 feeder wrote:

Rainbow Dash wrote:Islam isn't a race.

Deflecting with a technicality, and not addressing my point? I appreciate the de facto capitulation.

Future War Cultist wrote:@ Rainbow Dash

I think most people are slowly starting to wake up. Not fast enough but we're getting there. If Marine le Pen doesn't win after this I'd be very surprised.

And yes, Islam is not a race. It's an ideology. Anyone who says 'it's racist to criticise Islam' is a dangerous idiot imo.

I haven't seen anyone in here say 'it's racist to criticise Islam'. I have however, seen someone say "All immigrants are a drain on resources" which is out and out racism.

Dangerous idiots advocate the annihilation of an entire people.

Rainbow Dash wrote:It's an ideology that hates the west and isn't interested in any of our values.

Radical, weaponised Islam, yes. Run of the mill Islam, that is practiced by billions worldwide, no.

What point, you called me racist, Islam isn't a race... That's all you said to me besides that I should feel bad...
You never made a point.

I dealt with Insurgents. I much rather deal with Insurgents then trying to nail out a whole swath of people who might be a possible Insurgent.

 djones520 wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
It should be pointed out that there were indeed middle classes in the Middle East until the US decided to blow them up. Iraq and Syria would like a word.

Right... and we've blown up Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, etc... Just keep waving that "blame Murica" stick. It'll get you somewhere.

Saudi Arabia is a major sponsor of sectarian terrorism and supported by the US. Iraq was smashed apart by the invasion and IS arose from the ashes as a direct consequence. When there is no more society and when there is still a massive need to resist military occupation then you get horrible gak happening. You don't appreciate how deeply fethed up things get when society stops existing.