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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Probably because Planetstrrike, Cities of Death didn't sell well at all back in an era where GW gladly dropped things that sold poorly to the point where I can't imagine the vast majority having used them at all, heck they used to add the rules for such into the old Supplements for Codex's but nobody ever bought those for those rules.

The Generals handbook has helped reinvigorate AoS to a majority degree, they'd quite literally shoot themselves in the foot to stop supporting it in some manner, it really is unreasonable.

And yet, with the relaunch of their flagship magazine and the re-release of their flagship model, Grombrindal... they didn't support the General's Handbook. I'm not sure why you think it's unreasonable to assume they won't support the General's Handbook when they literally just didn't support the General's Handbook.

So the General's Handbook starts on page 98?

I'm finding your overreaction to be almost comical if I am honest. The miniature itself is fully supported by Matched Play as an 'Unforged'.

Open and Narrative play allows GW to throw out characterful rules without worrying about balancing it. This isn't the first time miniatures haven't had matched play points, the Silver Tower adversaries do not either.

Does it mean Matched Play is no longer supported? No, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion at all. If a faction release comes with no points then you might have an argument.

 Ghaz wrote:
So the General's Handbook starts on page 98?

Thank you for your sarcastic comment. I would explain how a book isn't fully supported if only 2/3 of it is supported, but I'm sure you know that. Also, anecdotally, it seems like for the majority of people who bought it, yes it might as well have started on page 98.


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 Bottle wrote:
I'm finding your overreaction to be almost comical if I am honest. The miniature itself is fully supported by Matched Play as an 'Unforged'.

Open and Narrative play allows GW to throw out characterful rules without worrying about balancing it. This isn't the first time miniatures haven't had matched play points, the Silver Tower adversaries do not either.

Does it mean Matched Play is no longer supported? No, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion at all. If a faction release comes with no points then you might have an argument.

So, Grombrindal is fully supported in Matched Play by not using Grombrindal and instead using a warscroll with entirely different rules? I think you've missed what I'm irritated about. I'm irritated that Grombrindal has rules for Open Play and Narrative Play, but not for Matched Play. I don't really care about the actual model. I think if we're all being honest, the General's Handbook didn't sell as well as it did because of the extra Open and Narrative play options. I think it would have sold almost as well if it had simply started with the Matched Play chapter.

I find your suggestion that I can include Grombrindal in Matched Play by including an entirely different Hero and just prentending it is Grombrindal to be comical, if I'm being honest.

Plus, the Silver Tower adversaries were addressed and I found GW's explanation satisfactory. There is no similar explanation here.

"Entirely different hero", despite being the same miniature.

I'm finding this conversation very sour to take part it, so I will bow out here. Hopefully they'll include the rules for him in a future update to the Matched Play system, for your sake at least. In the meantime you can play him as an Unforged, or you can suggest to your friends to let you point him approximately - send an email to GW about it too. Not much else you can do in my eyes.

 Bottle wrote:
"Entirely different hero", despite being the same miniature.

I'm finding this conversation very sour to take part it, so I will bow out here. Hopefully they'll include the rules for him in a future update to the Matched Play system, for your sake at least. In the meantime you can play him as an Unforged, or you can suggest to your friends to let you point him approximately - send an email to GW about it too. Not much else you can do in my eyes.

This kind of made me chuckle. To be clear, I don't care about the model. It's the rules I want to use. Telling me that I can use Grombrindal by using the model and then just arbitrarily picking a different warscroll is not helpful. If I wanted to field an Unforged, that's what I'd do. I want to field Grombrindal (the warscroll).

I posted to the White Dwarf Facebook page.
I messaged the White Dwarf Facebook page (twice).
I emailed GW's customer service email address.

No responses and today is Day 7 considering I got the magazine last Thursday and immediately reached out to GW.

It's not an "arbitrarily" chosen warscroll, when both are shared by the same miniature.

If you don't want to play with homebrew points you are out of options.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
So the General's Handbook starts on page 98?

Thank you for your sarcastic comment. I would explain how a book isn't fully supported if only 2/3 of it is supported, but I'm sure you know that. Also, anecdotally, it seems like for the majority of people who bought it, yes it might as well have started on page 98..

And you could explain how Kantor Blue is actually an orange color, but it wouldn't make you right. At this point, all I see is someone who's upset because the Open and Narrative players got something that the Matched players didn't and because of that the sky is falling. Should the Narrative players complain that GW will be streaming a two day Matched Play event on YouTube, Facebook and Twitch this weekend because they're not doing the same for them?

 Bottle wrote:
I'm finding this conversation very sour to take part it, so I will bow out here.

Agreed. I'm done here.

They don't tend to have any point costs for the silver tower characters/units. So I don't think he is going to be a match play compatible hero.

You guys are funny. My reaction is valid. My feelings are valid. That fact that you don't agree with me doesn't make my reaction and feelings any less valid. Feel free to disagree, but please don't be dismissive and don't tell me I'm wrong for being annoyed.

GW advertised that the "full rules for using Grombrindal" would be available in the first issue of White Dwarf. It's one reason I bought the magazine. My irritation is reasonable considering that they promised "full rules" and yet only provided rules for 2 of the 3 play options. That doesn't sound like "full rules" to me. I'm allowed to be upset about this. Anyone who paid for "full rules" only to receive partial rules is allowed to be upset about this.


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AN'SHI wrote:
They don't tend to have any point costs for the silver tower characters/units. So I don't think he is going to be a match play compatible hero.

Not actually true...

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/ENG_Silver_Tower_PB.pdf

When this was originally posted, they have a small side note letting you not which warscrolls covered the other models in the Silver Tower box. Grot Scuttlings, for example, are to be used as normal Grots and can use the Grots Warscroll. I'm fairly certain that every single model in Silver Tower was accounted for and GW gave us instructions on how to use all of them in a Matched Play game.

I'm not going to search for that note right now, but you can if you're interested. I'm sure it was posted several times on this forum.

So.. you would've just been happy if they said 'Please use Grombrindal as an unforged X for points play. "

Just clarifying on that point.

 Kriswall wrote:
You guys are funny. My reaction is valid. My feelings are valid. That fact that you don't agree with me doesn't make my reaction and feelings any less valid. Feel free to disagree, but please don't be dismissive and don't tell me I'm wrong for being annoyed.

That goes both ways: our opinions and feelings are valid when we say you are overreacting and bow out of the discussion. No one is saying you are wrong for being annoyed, we are saying that you are making a mountain out of an anthill here. And with that I'm out too; when we have this already ridiculous release spun into some sort of death knell for AoS I personally think rationality has been left by the wayside.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
So.. you would've just been happy if they said 'Please use Grombrindal as an unforged X for points play. "

Just clarifying on that point.

No. That's an entirely different situation. Yes, if they'd released a NEW model WITHOUT a warscroll and said "Please use the Unforged warscroll with this new model", I'd have been ok. That's not what happened. They released new rules for an existing model. Your option would have me ignore the new warscroll entirely and just use the Unforged model as an Unforged, leaving me no option to use the Unforged model as Grombrindal... unless painting his hair white and pretending he's not an Unforged counts. To me, it doesn't count.


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 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
You guys are funny. My reaction is valid. My feelings are valid. That fact that you don't agree with me doesn't make my reaction and feelings any less valid. Feel free to disagree, but please don't be dismissive and don't tell me I'm wrong for being annoyed.

That goes both ways: our opinions and feelings are valid when we say you are overreacting and bow out of the discussion. No one is saying you are wrong for being annoyed, we are saying that you are making a mountain out of an anthill here. And with that I'm out too; when we have this already ridiculous release spun into some sort of death knell for AoS I personally think rationality has been left by the wayside.

"No one is saying you are wrong..."

"you are overreacting"
"you are making a mountain out of an anthill"
"rationality has been left by the wayside"
"I'm finding your overreaction to be almost comical"

Pardon me for misinterpreting, but I read all of the above comments as "your opinions and reactions are unreasonable and irrational", i.e. "you are wrong".

Also, I never once spun this as a death knell for AoS. I think it's very reasonable to assume that GW will not fully support the General's Handbook in the future, which is to say they will not provide Matched Play points for all future releases. If you think that's a death knell, you might want to check your interpretation. If they don't fully support Matched Play, they'll lose some players. That's a fact. Others will continue to play. That's also a fact. I never once said the game would end... just that Matched Play might not be as permanent as we were led to believe. Grombrindal could very well be the first in a long line of releases that are only intended for the players that fit with GW's "do whatever you want" mentality. I hope I'm wrong. Historical and anecdotal evidence says I'm not.

 Kriswall wrote:
You guys are funny. My reaction is valid. My feelings are valid. That fact that you don't agree with me doesn't make my reaction and feelings any less valid. Feel free to disagree, but please don't be dismissive and don't tell me I'm wrong for being annoyed.

GW advertised that the "full rules for using Grombrindal" would be available in the first issue of White Dwarf. It's one reason I bought the magazine. My irritation is reasonable considering that they promised "full rules" and yet only provided rules for 2 of the 3 play options. That doesn't sound like "full rules" to me. I'm allowed to be upset about this. Anyone who paid for "full rules" only to receive partial rules is allowed to be upset about this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AN'SHI wrote:
They don't tend to have any point costs for the silver tower characters/units. So I don't think he is going to be a match play compatible hero.

Not actually true...

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/ENG_Silver_Tower_PB.pdf

When this was originally posted, they have a small side note letting you not which warscrolls covered the other models in the Silver Tower box. Grot Scuttlings, for example, are to be used as normal Grots and can use the Grots Warscroll. I'm fairly certain that every single model in Silver Tower was accounted for and GW gave us instructions on how to use all of them in a Matched Play game.

I'm not going to search for that note right now, but you can if you're interested. I'm sure it was posted several times on this forum.

Hey thanks for the link much appreciated funny the app didn't get this update?

AN'SHI wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
You guys are funny. My reaction is valid. My feelings are valid. That fact that you don't agree with me doesn't make my reaction and feelings any less valid. Feel free to disagree, but please don't be dismissive and don't tell me I'm wrong for being annoyed.

GW advertised that the "full rules for using Grombrindal" would be available in the first issue of White Dwarf. It's one reason I bought the magazine. My irritation is reasonable considering that they promised "full rules" and yet only provided rules for 2 of the 3 play options. That doesn't sound like "full rules" to me. I'm allowed to be upset about this. Anyone who paid for "full rules" only to receive partial rules is allowed to be upset about this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AN'SHI wrote:
They don't tend to have any point costs for the silver tower characters/units. So I don't think he is going to be a match play compatible hero.

Not actually true...

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/ENG_Silver_Tower_PB.pdf

When this was originally posted, they have a small side note letting you not which warscrolls covered the other models in the Silver Tower box. Grot Scuttlings, for example, are to be used as normal Grots and can use the Grots Warscroll. I'm fairly certain that every single model in Silver Tower was accounted for and GW gave us instructions on how to use all of them in a Matched Play game.

I'm not going to search for that note right now, but you can if you're interested. I'm sure it was posted several times on this forum.

Hey thanks for the link much appreciated funny the app didn't get this update?

GW is really bad at fully supporting optional rules. Which is sort of my point. I'm not surprised they didn't update the app. AoS is already starting to show the same sort of patchwork rule set that 40k has. There is no single source for rules.

...and I just got a response from GW's customer service. Grombrindal is only intended for unmodified AoS and there are no plans to add Matched Play points. Well, that sucks.

I think it is best to not treat AoS as anything more then a costly way to kill time.

Poorly written rules.

Poorly... Very poorly written sifi fantasy.

No support for anything not s space marine sigmarine. So unless you like them expect update every 9 years while they get a new book and model weekly.

Matched play was a hey sorry we killed your game here is a crappy way for you to give us money.

Anything bought for AoS will most likely just be a decor for a shelf after a couple weeks.

Why are you still here? Seriously you write like someone has a gun to your back to keep you posting about AoS.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think it is best to not treat AoS as anything more then a costly way to kill time.

Poorly written rules.

Poorly... Very poorly written sifi fantasy.

No support for anything not s space marine sigmarine. So unless you like them expect update every 9 years while they get a new book and model weekly.

Matched play was a hey sorry we killed your game here is a crappy way for you to give us money.

Anything bought for AoS will most likely just be a decor for a shelf after a couple weeks.

Don't really agree the rules being simplified makes for an easy to play game which will attract more players. With the addition of points and extra rule the game itself has a competitive edge.

But it will totally be based on what your looking for out of a game. sure its has its flaws but hey what game dosen't have you played 40k?

Over all AOS now with point is a fun game with a competitive edge that allows for more people to get into. I agree they should of had the point system in play before hand which would of solved a great deal but its good to see GW listening to their players for a change. So it aint all that bad