Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Anyone have an idea what fair point value would be for him? I would like to try him in my Thursday night league.

Probably 100 points, but in an exclusive font.

My thoughts were at least as many points as Ungrim but then his two abilities are flat out amazing. I was thinking 140ish.

Was wondering what everyone else thought.

I'd put him at 20-40 points more than the normal Unforged model.

150 we decided locally if one insisted to make him cost points in a MP game. Was planning on using him eventually (my older WD models, not this one) and just letting my opponent take a free formation or one from RGW books that's not, like, super insane.

I ran him twice so far, and we ended up pointing him closer to 200pts. He's soooo distruptive, and not only does the typical "popper" cannon hunting, etc... but rather also ends up being a potent monster/hero hunter. His rules are unbelievable.

I'm also using the older model. Can't believe we didn't get a new figure.

I'll try 200. Still trying to figure out how to be evil with his ability to re-roll everything for another Order Hero. Playing some one with TK cheese so looking for something to cheese back with.

I asked for a points value on the White Dwarf Facebook page on Friday. I realize that this is a holiday weekend, but no response at all. Maybe I'll get a response tomorrow. I think it's pretty crappy to offer "an exclusive warscroll" that nobody who plays matched play can use.

I have no problem with Grombrindal not having points. Just like the battalions from the Realmgate books, Start Collecting boxes, etc. which don't have points for Matched Play, Grombrindal doesn't have points for Matched Play because none of them are designed for Matched Play.

Yep. I too am ok with models not being for matched play. If you really want him to be in your matched play games, just give him points. The point system is not really balanced anyway, and the values given in this thread seem to me to be reasonable.

 Ghaz wrote:
I have no problem with Grombrindal not having points. Just like the battalions from the Realmgate books, Start Collecting boxes, etc. which don't have points for Matched Play, Grombrindal doesn't have points for Matched Play because none of them are designed for Matched Play.

I think the issue that a lot of people are going to have (I'm including myself) is that GW appears to be aware that a large segment of the fantasy gamers will only play Matched Play. Sure, the General's Handbook has three different ways to play, but the only real reviews I've seen all boil down to "Finally, Points!".

When GW releases a new model that isn't compatible with Matched Play, it feels very much like they are saying "Hey, Johnny Customer... check out this shiny new model. You like it, right? Well, too bad. You're not allowed to use it. Only the people who fully embrace casual, points-less play get to use it. Shame on you for wanting to hammer our narrative game into a competitive framework."

It's really frustrating. The rules for Grombrindal look amazing. I'd love to add him to my Order army, but buying him is tantamount to throwing money in the trash if I don't have an official points value. I play with strangers pretty frequently with the assumption being that we're playing strictly by the official rules only. Tossing in a model with no points value or a made up points value isn't an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, I posted to their page on Friday, but I just sent a message as well. Basically asked for a points value telling them that the Warscroll is worthless to the Matched Play gaming population.

Buying that scam of a model was already tantamount to throwing money in the trash. It was probably the most unsavory release from GW I have seen in years, and a rare blemish on the positive turn they've had in the last year or so.

"Exclusive Packaging" and repainting an existing, still sold, by them, FOR CHEAPER, model... is an afront. The lesser afront was them giving him rules but no points.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Buying that scam of a model was already tantamount to throwing money in the trash. It was probably the most unsavory release from GW I have seen in years, and a rare blemish on the positive turn they've had in the last year or so.

"Exclusive Packaging" and repainting an existing, still sold, by them, FOR CHEAPER, model... is an afront. The lesser afront was them giving him rules but no points.

I'm actually showing Grombrindal as 20 USD and the Unforged model for 21 USD. Granted, you need to pay 9 USD for the White Dwarf mag to get the rules, but the actual model itself is a buck cheaper on the US website.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I have no problem with Grombrindal not having points. Just like the battalions from the Realmgate books, Start Collecting boxes, etc. which don't have points for Matched Play, Grombrindal doesn't have points for Matched Play because none of them are designed for Matched Play.

I think the issue that a lot of people are going to have (I'm including myself) is that GW appears to be aware that a large segment of the fantasy gamers will only play Matched Play. Sure, the General's Handbook has three different ways to play, but the only real reviews I've seen all boil down to "Finally, Points!".

When GW releases a new model that isn't compatible with Matched Play, it feels very much like they are saying "Hey, Johnny Customer... check out this shiny new model. You like it, right? Well, too bad. You're not allowed to use it. Only the people who fully embrace casual, points-less play get to use it. Shame on you for wanting to hammer our narrative game into a competitive framework."

It's really frustrating. The rules for Grombrindal look amazing. I'd love to add him to my Order army, but buying him is tantamount to throwing money in the trash if I don't have an official points value. I play with strangers pretty frequently with the assumption being that we're playing strictly by the official rules only. Tossing in a model with no points value or a made up points value isn't an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, I posted to their page on Friday, but I just sent a message as well. Basically asked for a points value telling them that the Warscroll is worthless to the Matched Play gaming population.

TBF the warscroll is a very narrative one in the sense of its rules and mechanics. Its basically an over-the-top character that in theory doesn't fit well in the more structured nature of Matched Play. Of course the points provided mean the balance structure is shot anyways, but the principle is there. And perhaps that's just it; rather than an insult GW is sending a subtle message of 'hey, these other game modes exist and not everything is designed for Matched Play'.

Like battalions from RGW just talk with your opponent and say what's fair. Maybe he/she will agree. I've found we've overcosted things likely, so I expect 200 points may be higher than whatever points they assign Grombindal. Though like many, on paper he looks great.

I just calculated his cost for the PPC and came to 175 pts, so you could try him out at that cost if you please.

This is untried and I have not spoken with my group about his cost but this is the initial value for him.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I have no problem with Grombrindal not having points. Just like the battalions from the Realmgate books, Start Collecting boxes, etc. which don't have points for Matched Play, Grombrindal doesn't have points for Matched Play because none of them are designed for Matched Play.

I think the issue that a lot of people are going to have (I'm including myself) is that GW appears to be aware that a large segment of the fantasy gamers will only play Matched Play. Sure, the General's Handbook has three different ways to play, but the only real reviews I've seen all boil down to "Finally, Points!".

When GW releases a new model that isn't compatible with Matched Play, it feels very much like they are saying "Hey, Johnny Customer... check out this shiny new model. You like it, right? Well, too bad. You're not allowed to use it. Only the people who fully embrace casual, points-less play get to use it. Shame on you for wanting to hammer our narrative game into a competitive framework."

It's really frustrating. The rules for Grombrindal look amazing. I'd love to add him to my Order army, but buying him is tantamount to throwing money in the trash if I don't have an official points value. I play with strangers pretty frequently with the assumption being that we're playing strictly by the official rules only. Tossing in a model with no points value or a made up points value isn't an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, I posted to their page on Friday, but I just sent a message as well. Basically asked for a points value telling them that the Warscroll is worthless to the Matched Play gaming population.

TBF the warscroll is a very narrative one in the sense of its rules and mechanics. Its basically an over-the-top character that in theory doesn't fit well in the more structured nature of Matched Play. Of course the points provided mean the balance structure is shot anyways, but the principle is there. And perhaps that's just it; rather than an insult GW is sending a subtle message of 'hey, these other game modes exist and not everything is designed for Matched Play'.

Yeah... but how were those other play modes working out for GW? Not too terribly well. Matched Play has done more for AoS for many, many gamers than everything else released to date.

Obviously true, but if GW wants to promote those other styles and at least try to grow the community that way I can respect that. It isn't like they are denying points for an entire faction or something.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Obviously true, but if GW wants to promote those other styles and at least try to grow the community that way I can respect that. It isn't like they are denying points for an entire faction or something.

Well, they're intentionally excluding a large segment of their customer base when they could have just given a points value. That's bad business. The General's Handbook was a great idea, but if the points values aren't supported going forward, it's going to end up as a useless snapshot in time. I expected that all future warscrolls would have a points value. So far, that has not been the case.

If they release a battletome or new kit without points values I will very much agree with you. It occurs to me that I might have a different perspective because I use PPC and get points for everything anyway.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If they release a battletome or new kit without points values I will very much agree with you. It occurs to me that I might have a different perspective because I use PPC and get points for everything anyway.

Fair. My community only uses official sources of rules. No matter how widespread a community driven system seems, they can all fall apart if one or two key people abandon the project. PPC was never an option.

For anyone who sticks to official rules and likes Matched Play, Grombrindal being released without points is a slap in the face. It tells me that Matched Play gamers don't deserve something like The White Dwarf. We're scum and second class gamers for wanting structure.

You may be reading a bit too FAR into that if you are thinking that.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
You may be reading a bit too FAR into that if you are thinking that.

I don't think it is impossible though.
Creators sometimes react irrationally to criticism of their work and this could be someone involved in early Age of Sigmar responding that way.

I think it is more likely this is due to a lack of communication between different parts of GW or just caused by their generally poor ability to Quality Check rules adequately though.

Maybe they didn't give him points because they want to throw out some quick, crazy rules for him and make a fun and flavoursome character without risking breaking the entire meta at the same time.

If you want to use him in matched play, run him as an unforged, or make up an approximate points cost for him. If you're playing base-to-base you're already using house rules.

 Bottle wrote:
Maybe they didn't give him points because they want to throw out some quick, crazy rules for him and make a fun and flavoursome character without risking breaking the entire meta at the same time.

Yeah I'm pretty sure its this. To extrapolate a lack of points for a release that really shouldn't be taken seriously anyway (I mean... exclusive packaging... really...) into GW disliking matched play entirely is a bit much I think.

Regardless of the reason, Games Workshop totally botched things.

I opened the White Dwarf, skimmed through, saw Grombrindal, got excited and then started looking for the points value... and then realized GW didn't bother including full rules for the model. This doesn't feel like an oversight. It feels like they're not planning on supporting the General's Handbook going forward. To have such an iconic Hero not be supported doesn't make me feel like AoS has a real future. Without points, sales will suffer. If they release a points value, I'll drop $20 for the model. If they don't, I won't. Simple.

 Kriswall wrote:
Regardless of the reason, Games Workshop totally botched things.

I opened the White Dwarf, skimmed through, saw Grombrindal, got excited and then started looking for the points value... and then realized GW didn't bother including full rules for the model. This doesn't feel like an oversight. It feels like they're not planning on supporting the General's Handbook going forward. To have such an iconic Hero not be supported doesn't make me feel like AoS has a real future. Without points, sales will suffer. If they release a points value, I'll drop $20 for the model. If they don't, I won't. Simple.

Or potentially they just didn't want a unit whose Warscroll is only exclusive to the White Dwarf magazine potentially cause problems by requiring it. They printed costs for units within The Silver Tower so that shows that they'll continue to add on to such.

Also ONE MODEL has you this upset?

 Kriswall wrote:
Regardless of the reason, Games Workshop totally botched things.

I opened the White Dwarf, skimmed through, saw Grombrindal, got excited and then started looking for the points value... and then realized GW didn't bother including full rules for the model. This doesn't feel like an oversight. It feels like they're not planning on supporting the General's Handbook going forward. To have such an iconic Hero not be supported doesn't make me feel like AoS has a real future. Without points, sales will suffer. If they release a points value, I'll drop $20 for the model. If they don't, I won't. Simple.

This is really quite an overreaction.....

I agree with ZebioLizard2, GW seems to be making an effort to include points for everything they can. I suggest taking a breather, and having some patience....

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Regardless of the reason, Games Workshop totally botched things.

I opened the White Dwarf, skimmed through, saw Grombrindal, got excited and then started looking for the points value... and then realized GW didn't bother including full rules for the model. This doesn't feel like an oversight. It feels like they're not planning on supporting the General's Handbook going forward. To have such an iconic Hero not be supported doesn't make me feel like AoS has a real future. Without points, sales will suffer. If they release a points value, I'll drop $20 for the model. If they don't, I won't. Simple.

Or potentially they just didn't want a unit whose Warscroll is only exclusive to the White Dwarf magazine potentially cause problems by requiring it. They printed costs for units within The Silver Tower so that shows that they'll continue to add on to such.

Also ONE MODEL has you this upset?

Yes it does, and I think my feelings of frustration are perfectly valid. GW has a history of not supporting supplements. Their release history is riddled with rules expanding supplements that just fade into the background several months after release. Do you think I'll be getting Cities of Death objectives for Codex: Deathwatch? Where are my Skitarii Planetstrike rules? Why does everyone think we'll continue to get General's Handbook points for future AoS releases? History says otherwise. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Grombrindal is just the first of many AoS releases that completely ignore that the General's Handbook exists.

The warscroll being exclusive to the magazine is another issue. We were initially told that all non-Battalion warscrolls would be free on the website for AoS. Solid nope now. Another promise broken.

Probably because Planetstrrike, Cities of Death didn't sell well at all back in an era where GW gladly dropped things that sold poorly to the point where I can't imagine the vast majority having used them at all, heck they used to add the rules for such into the old Supplements for Codex's but nobody ever bought those for those rules.

The Generals handbook has helped reinvigorate AoS to a majority degree, they'd quite literally shoot themselves in the foot to stop supporting it in some manner, it really is unreasonable.