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 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I mean that people are overly fussy if they need to buy brand new GW models.

On Ebay at the moment there is a lot of metal Epic stuff for reasonable prices, even relatively rare stuff like Eldar.

There is even an Imperator Titan for £50.

Forumware massively expands the available models as well, some of it even ends up on Ebay.

I'm then what you would consider "fussy". I have zero interest in hunting things from ebay. I had do it once for a specific model (90s greater demon looking 40k familiar) and I hated it. I certainly, under no circumstances, would be willing to build a whole army this way. I can understand very easily why that affects ability to get new players. Also since I've demoed Epic:Armageddon in local convention multiple times over multiple years, I can say that in most cases the people interested in game have dropped that interest once the model availability comes up. Reality is that with no support for GW for epic prevents larger amount of new players from joining in, not all but many.

From what I've gleaned, mostly via second hand sources, Adeptus Titanicus is going to play quite differently to it's original version.

For instance, a decent slice of the game is going to be resource management, specifically choosing where to spend your Reactor's Plasma Output from turn to turn. That wasn't a feature in the original AT, but was latterly seen solely for the Imperator in Titan Legions.

Now for first hand info I picked up at Warhammerfest talking to the designers (but, at that point the scale itself apparently wasn't set - but reports from the same event vary)....

For now, it's just for the Heresy era - so no fun for you dirty Xenos Huggers. But, if it sells well, they're not adverse to expanding it to include other races and that.

Since then, I have to switch back to second hand info, which I've not been able to corroborate, so salt at the ready....

In short, Blood Bowl has been such a success for them, they're now looking at producing the initial set as plastics, with additions being Resin.

So all in all, really quite up in the air, and it seems to vary depending on who you ask. But one thing is for sure, I'm getting it. I love Titans, me!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
although I would imagine that most people who are active in the Epic community would have at least 1 contact who can get them some black market toys.

That's kind of part of the problem. Not everyone is going to be or wants to be part of the online community just to play a game. Only a fraction of wargamers are actually an active part of the online community for the specific games they play.

I wasn't really meaning online communities, you would be hard pressed to get any contact details online because people know not to post them.
There are however regular Epic tournaments and events in the more wargaming parts of the world and there are a fair few clubs that play Epic. I get my forumware from a guy at my club.

This is obviously not an easy way to get toys though.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
although I would imagine that most people who are active in the Epic community would have at least 1 contact who can get them some black market toys.

That's kind of part of the problem. Not everyone is going to be or wants to be part of the online community just to play a game. Only a fraction of wargamers are actually an active part of the online community for the specific games they play.

I wasn't really meaning online communities, you would be hard pressed to get any contact details online because people know not to post them.
There are however regular Epic tournaments and events in the more wargaming parts of the world and there are a fair few clubs that play Epic. I get my forumware from a guy at my club.

This is obviously not an easy way to get toys though.

So basically it's much worse that what I was thinking, good luck starting a community when you already need to "know a guy" to get the "good stuff"

The difference between being able to get models easily or not is huge in getting a community started. I already tried and failed to get an Epic group going and the biggest thing was people not being able to buy models off the shelf (I already have decent sized Ork and SM forces from when I bought the boxed set in the late 90's).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The difference between being able to get models easily or not is huge in getting a community started. I already tried and failed to get an Epic group going and the biggest thing was people not being able to buy models off the shelf.

I just don't understand why people insist on being able to buy 'new' models, I know that they do they just have a completely different view than my own. I am more than happy to build my armies with stuff I buy from Ebay or alternative manufacturers, especially when those alternatives kick seven shades of gak out of the 'official' models. Defeat in Detail 'Skinners' are far superior to GW's Orks (which are admittedly at least 20 years old at this point).

My Marines are entirely from Ebay (I bought about a chapters worth of infantry and Rhinos for £40....), my Speed Freaks are a mix of Ebay and Defeat in Detail and my currently planned Knightworld army will be (almost) entirely forumware.

It just makes the whole process of getting an army more difficult. When GW sold the minis, you went onto their website, added a few packs to the cart and there you go - an army.

Now, if you want actual GW minis (and for a lot of people, the look of the minis is important; all these "not quite" ranges popping up do nothing for me, because they're not Rhinos, Land Raiders and Leman Russ tanks), you need to go on Ebay, lose a few auctions, come back next week, try again, etc, etc. Or hunt down references for other companies who make some minis that might look OK if you squint a bit. All the while dodging forum and Facebook posts of people showing off minis you'll never be able to buy because you don't know the secret handshake.

Just go for 3rd party stuff!

I did mention that. First, you've got to find it. That's the barrier to entry, although now that you need to go looking for internet forums to even know the game exists, you'll at least be in the right place to find a list of 6mm sci fi manufacturers, I suppose. No one of 'em does everything, unfortunately.

As for forumware turning up on eBay, it does now and then.

But expect knight lancers, castigators and paladins to fetch around £35 each.

Warhounds usually top £60 or so.

The reaver is a whole different thing.
I stopped bidding at £80 on one the night before last and it ended at £125



So while forumware is on there, don't expect cheaper than the original stuff.

The common one is defines though, which go for around £15 - £20 each.





About to do a purge on mine anyway and sell off my tyranids, squats, necron and orks.
Keeping to marines and titans so using other stuff to fund them.







Edit;

For those interested in 3rd party stuff:

Onslaught miniatures - tau, tyranid, sisters of battle, dark eldar and more.


Defeat in detail - from vanguard miniatures.
Tons of marine, guard, ork and eldar proxies with a constantly expanding range.


Trolls under the bridge miniatures - loads of guard proxies.
Tanks, infantry (basic, command, heavy)
They also sell some gorgeous necron proxies.


A few Russian ebayers also sell the odd thing here and there.
Currently it seems to be flyers (storm talon and xiphon) and mainly rhinos and vindicators.
Just have to find these either by accident or by searching for specific things in epic.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I did mention that. First, you've got to find it. That's the barrier to entry, although now that you need to go looking for internet forums to even know the game exists, you'll at least be in the right place to find a list of 6mm sci fi manufacturers, I suppose. No one of 'em does everything, unfortunately.

Not everything yet. Both Onslaught and Vanguard are slowly expanding their ranges. Those wanting to play Space Marines, Imperial Guard, or Titan Legions (the majority of players) can go to Vanguard Miniatures. Their Novan Elites, Novan Regulars, and Cybershadows cover most of those forces' units.

Onslaught has been doing some cool stuff as well, their Okami range fill many units for the Tau, add their Avians and you've got some pretty sweet Kroot as well (heck, they've even got Vespid proxies). The Stygians cover plenty of Dark Eldar units. Some other stuff can easily be converted using 40k scaled stuff and other bits. The Sisterhood are basically the Adepta Sororitas in proxy form. And they even got Knights in the form of the Talos Syndicate. (and if you're in the UK/Europe, you might want to get your Onslaught stuff through Vanguard)

So yeah, not every single unit is covered yet, but these two parties alone are slowly moving towards covering most stuff. It does make building such forces a bit of a challenge, but sometimes I feel that collecting an amazing army should be a challenge.

 Jackal wrote:

Trolls under the bridge miniatures - loads of guard proxies.
Tanks, infantry (basic, command, heavy)
They also sell some gorgeous necron proxies.

He doesn't sell his vehicles on his webstore after GW got him to take them down but they are still available on Ebay.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I did mention that. First, you've got to find it. That's the barrier to entry, although now that you need to go looking for internet forums to even know the game exists, you'll at least be in the right place to find a list of 6mm sci fi manufacturers, I suppose. No one of 'em does everything, unfortunately.

Actually, there are some who do everything. .

From 30k to 40k ,they got it all.

But yes, the issue reverts back to the point of you do need to know a guy. Its not that hard though. If your that interested, get to a forum, ask around and youll get there.

Believe me I wish it wasn't like this, but it has to be hush hush for it to continue. If the actual game company wont make their game, someone else will.