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Let's try something else fun: Stormwolves. They're easily the best Skyfire that Space Wolves - Or even Space Marines in general - can get, packing 3 Twin-linked S8 AP1/2 and on3 twin-linked S9 AP2.
Twin-link S8 gets a hit 8/9ths of the time and wounds 1/2 the time. S9 hits the same, and wounds 2/3rds. Combined, that's 52/27ths of a wound, or about 1.92 wounds. Then, the invuln drops 7/12ths of those. About .8 wounds in total. The Hellfrost could potentially cause extra wounds, but that only happens 1/30th of the time.

So, it takes 11 Stormwolves to drop Magnus - Around 2500 points, which isn't awful. Buuut, they can't show up until turn 2. If Magnus drops Endurance, the number of woumds drops in half. If he drops Iron Arm, it drops to a third.

And, again: This is the best hard counter that Imperial armies have against fliers. It STILL can't do anything remotely points-efficient.

And, just for fun, let's do Flakk Missiles on 10-man Tactical squads!

165 points per single S7 AP4 shot, hitting on 3s.

1 shot, 2/3 hits, 2/9 wounds, 1/162 wounds through the armor.

162 to take a single wound off (26730 points) and 1458 (240570 points) to one-turn kill him.

Effective!

 JNAProductions wrote:
And, just for fun, let's do Flakk Missiles on 10-man Tactical squads!

165 points per single S7 AP4 shot, hitting on 3s.

1 shot, 2/3 hits, 2/9 wounds, 1/162 wounds through the armor.

162 to take a single wound off (26730 points) and 1458 (240570 points) to one-turn kill him.

Effective!

That's not fair, those Tac-squads aren't optimized. Why not 5-man Devestator squads? 170 points for 4 missiles. 6,885 points per wound. 62,000 points total.
Much better.

So lets do a bit of math here, because grounding him means he becomes an awful lot less threatening:

# of S:10 AP:2 shots required to ground:1 in 6 will hit because despite being the size of a large building Magnus is more limber than Barbados Slim. 5 in 6 will wound. Of those 1 in 2 will go through the Invulnerable save, and then 4 in 6 will get through FNP.
A staggering 21.6 S:10 AP:2 shots needed to cause 1 unsaved wound, for a total of 64.8 needed to bring him to the ground.
This means the tactic is only really the tiniest bit viable for Tau who can bring a bananas amount of S:10 to the table, with a lot of it being skyfire.

This is a problem. Anybody have any ideas?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
And, just for fun, let's do Flakk Missiles on 10-man Tactical squads!

165 points per single S7 AP4 shot, hitting on 3s.

1 shot, 2/3 hits, 2/9 wounds, 1/162 wounds through the armor.

162 to take a single wound off (26730 points) and 1458 (240570 points) to one-turn kill him.

Effective!

....Do you think anyone is going to attempt to kill Godzilla with RPGs? That's not what Tac squads are meant for.
That doesn't reflect well on your intelligence if you honestly think anyone is stupid enough to take that as at all an indication of the unit's effectiveness.
You also both did your math wrong. You left out IWND and FNP which makes things way worse. If you're stupid enough to attempt to bring down King Ghidorah with cute little anti infantry weapons, of course.

I also want to mention that Aetos'Rau"Keres has the same statline and typing with a 3+ invul instead. He's 500 points cheaper. Though he lacks IWND.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
So lets do a bit of math here, because grounding him means he becomes an awful lot less threatening:

# of S:10 AP:2 shots required to ground:1 in 6 will hit because despite being the size of a large building Magnus is more limber than Barbados Slim. 5 in 6 will wound. Of those 1 in 2 will go through the Invulnerable save, and then 4 in 6 will get through FNP.
A staggering 21.6 S:10 AP:2 shots needed to cause 1 unsaved wound, for a total of 64.8 needed to bring him to the ground.
This means the tactic is only really the tiniest bit viable for Tau who can bring a bananas amount of S:10 to the table, with a lot of it being skyfire.

This is a problem. Anybody have any ideas?

First off, you're still getting Grounding wrong. You only take one, solitary, single Grounding test at the end of the phase. No matter how many wounds you can inflict.
Second... Maybe don't make him so incredibly, insanely hard to kill? Lower his Toughness a bit? Don't let him use Biomancy powers for effectively free?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
And, just for fun, let's do Flakk Missiles on 10-man Tactical squads!

165 points per single S7 AP4 shot, hitting on 3s.

1 shot, 2/3 hits, 2/9 wounds, 1/162 wounds through the armor.

162 to take a single wound off (26730 points) and 1458 (240570 points) to one-turn kill him.

Effective!

....Do you think anyone is going to attempt to kill Godzilla with RPGs? That's not what Tac squads are meant for.
That doesn't reflect well on your intelligence if you honestly think anyone is stupid enough to take that as at all an indication of the unit's effectiveness.
You also both did your math wrong. You left out IWND and FNP which makes things way worse. If you're stupid enough to attempt to bring down King Ghidorah with cute little anti infantry weapons, of course.

I also want to mention that Aetos'Rau"Keres has the same statline and typing with a 3+ invul instead. He's 500 points cheaper. Though he lacks IWND.

JNA was making a joke.
Also, Aetos'Rau'Keres is only ML4, doesn't get to re-roll D shots, is only ML4, doesn't manifest on a 2+, doesn't have access to five uses of a SD beam, doesn't make Psychic Powers cheaper, doesn't have 2+ armor, doesn't have access to Biomancy or any other ways to buff his toughness, and lacks many other special abilities. Unlike Magnus, you CAN actually potentially one-shot him with D weapons, among other much more viable tactics.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
So lets do a bit of math here, because grounding him means he becomes an awful lot less threatening:

# of S:10 AP:2 shots required to ground:1 in 6 will hit because despite being the size of a large building Magnus is more limber than Barbados Slim. 5 in 6 will wound. Of those 1 in 2 will go through the Invulnerable save, and then 4 in 6 will get through FNP.
A staggering 21.6 S:10 AP:2 shots needed to cause 1 unsaved wound, for a total of 64.8 needed to bring him to the ground.
This means the tactic is only really the tiniest bit viable for Tau who can bring a bananas amount of S:10 to the table, with a lot of it being skyfire.

This is a problem. Anybody have any ideas?

First off, you're still getting Grounding wrong. You only take one, solitary, single Grounding test at the end of the phase. No matter how many wounds you can inflict.
Second... Maybe don't make him so incredibly, insanely hard to kill? Lower his Toughness a bit? Don't let him use Biomancy powers for effectively free?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
And, just for fun, let's do Flakk Missiles on 10-man Tactical squads!

165 points per single S7 AP4 shot, hitting on 3s.

1 shot, 2/3 hits, 2/9 wounds, 1/162 wounds through the armor.

162 to take a single wound off (26730 points) and 1458 (240570 points) to one-turn kill him.

Effective!

....Do you think anyone is going to attempt to kill Godzilla with RPGs? That's not what Tac squads are meant for.
That doesn't reflect well on your intelligence if you honestly think anyone is stupid enough to take that as at all an indication of the unit's effectiveness.
You also both did your math wrong. You left out IWND and FNP which makes things way worse. If you're stupid enough to attempt to bring down King Ghidorah with cute little anti infantry weapons, of course.

I also want to mention that Aetos'Rau"Keres has the same statline and typing with a 3+ invul instead. He's 500 points cheaper. Though he lacks IWND.

JNA was making a joke.
Also, Aetos'Rau'Keres is only ML4, doesn't get to re-roll D shots, is only ML4, doesn't manifest on a 2+, doesn't have access to five uses of a SD beam, doesn't make Psychic Powers cheaper, doesn't have 2+ armor, doesn't have access to Biomancy or any other ways to buff his toughness, and lacks many other special abilities. Unlike Magnus, you CAN actually potentially one-shot him with D weapons, among other much more viable tactics.

Incorrect or at least not looking at the bigger picture. Mathematically the odds of the shot bringing him down are still 1 in 64.8. Which assuming any skyfire among those shots (not within the math) is again still somewhat viable
I was simply referring to the issue of durability. Of which Keres has more of.
You're treating the reroll like it's sole purpose is to force a reroll on the S: D table.
Worse you're treating the situation as if it's impossible for 2 6's to be rolled on the D table, which would only require 12 sources of D. The Reaver brings 8 and is astromonically inefficient when you just wanna get as much D as you can.
You're also treating the situation like he has ML 20-25. To get the units necessary for that to be the case you'd have to shell out around 500 more points (assuming no unbound bs), which would effectively be useless points. This would bring his cost to 2000 points.
Again the beam has an abysmal range and in terms of area and number of models you're actually going to be hitting (assuming your opponent doesn't literally make a line of tanks exactly 18 inches long) is laughable.
Magnus would be lucky to have covered enough ground to be able to use the power well by Turn friggin 4. And he'd be so far ahead of your force that nothing else would be within range to benefit from the extra mastery.
Why even mention the 2+ armor? Everything you should be trying to throw at him should ignore it.

Because AP2 Skyfire is immensely rare. Many armies don't have ANY. Usually, the only way to get it is on expensive or clunky single-shot weapons, or else by taking a flier. (And fliers suck, so they're pretty rare too.) You can't say "Everything thrown against him should have AP2", because most players will not be able to manage that without investing several thousand points, minimum.
Also... "Abbysmal"? You seem to have no understanding of how movement in the game works.
At deployment, players will be at most 48" from their opponents table edge, but usually it's only 36".
Magnus can move 24", and the beam *Automatically hits* everything within another 18" line.

Also: Yes, any given shot has a 1/60 chance of grounding Magnus, but my point was that it's completely impossible to *reliably* ground him.

And there WILL be psykers around him, because DPs fly, Daemons DS, Sorcerers have bikes and disks. Crossing the board is *easy*. Autohitting tons of models with 5 D shots is *broken*.

I bring up the reroll because it really is the only thing it'll be used for. If your opponent has D weapons, you have the reroll. That way, he needs to get 11 Skyfire D weapons to all hit in order to kill Magnus. (Hint: Nobody had 11 Skyfire D weapons.)



And as for Keres...his ONLY trick is durability, and he's not even as durable, except against AP2 weapons - AP3? Magnus is better. D? Magnus is also better. Did you get a psychic phase off? Magnus can buff his durability or recover wounds, Keres can't.

Yeah, Primordial, you seem to VASTLY underestimate just how damn good this Magnus is.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Because AP2 Skyfire is immensely rare. Many armies don't have ANY. Usually, the only way to get it is on expensive or clunky single-shot weapons, or else by taking a flier. (And fliers suck, so they're pretty rare too.) You can't say "Everything thrown against him should have AP2", because most players will not be able to manage that without investing several thousand points, minimum.
Also... "Abbysmal"? You seem to have no understanding of how movement in the game works.
At deployment, players will be at most 48" from their opponents table edge, but usually it's only 36".
Magnus can move 24", and the beam *Automatically hits* everything within another 18" line.

Also: Yes, any given shot has a 1/60 chance of grounding Magnus, but my point was that it's completely impossible to *reliably* ground him.

And there WILL be psykers around him, because DPs fly, Daemons DS, Sorcerers have bikes and disks. Crossing the board is *easy*. Autohitting tons of models with 5 D shots is *broken*.

I bring up the reroll because it really is the only thing it'll be used for. If your opponent has D weapons, you have the reroll. That way, he needs to get 11 Skyfire D weapons to all hit in order to kill Magnus. (Hint: Nobody had 11 Skyfire D weapons.)


And as for Keres...his ONLY trick is durability, and he's not even as durable, except against AP2 weapons - AP3? Magnus is better. D? Magnus is also better. Did you get a psychic phase off? Magnus can buff his durability or recover wounds, Keres can't.

Wrong again. Are you telling you you'd play a 6000 point game on a standard table? You wouldn't. The front lines of either player's deployed models would be maybe a foot and a half away from each other. WHICH IS ASSUMING NO TERRAIN.
Also no. I'll assume 11 D hits like you. Of those 2 are statistically going to 6s. That 2d6+12 wounds or 20 already. Out of the remaining 9, 1 in 6 will be a dud. 7.5 hits each dealing d3 wounds make it through. Another 15. Saves take it down to 5. That's 25 wounds dealt, or 2.67 times overkill.
Math aint your strong suit
Also if they hit why do they need to be skyfire
Again you're not going to kill him in 1 turn. You're going to ground him with some skyfire then give him the D because he's been a bad girl.
It's not like you can use the reroll in even more broken ways. That 500 point deathstar? Its not coming on this turn, and or mis-happed. That giant Vortex you thought moved 2 inches saving your front line? It moved 6 now. That giant D blast you though landed perfectly killing about 500 points of models? It didn't. It killed 100 points worth. You lack creativity.
Again ignoring the fact that you'd need 500 points more models who's one use is letting you cast Gaze, bringing Magnus' cost to 2000.

Name a list that can beat this Magnus. Actually make a list that can defeat him.

Here's my list:

1500-Magnus
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML3
117-13 Pink Horrors
117-13 Pink Horrors
126-14 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
1995 Points

14+d6 warp charges to play around with each turn, with a 2+ rerollable cover save on my dudes.

Write me a 2,000 point list that can beat it.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Name a list that can beat this Magnus. Actually make a list that can defeat him.

Here's my list:

1500-Magnus
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML3
117-13 Pink Horrors
117-13 Pink Horrors
126-14 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
1995 Points

14+d6 warp charges to play around with each turn, with a 2+ rerollable cover save on my dudes.

Write me a 2,000 point list that can beat it.

The list straight up doesn't work. Magnus has the Daemon Lord rule. He can only be 1/4 of your points. The smallest list that could have him would need to 6000 points or more.

Okay, then write me a 6,000 point list to beat:

1500-Magnus
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
5976 Points

44 (Pink Horrors) plus 60 (Heralds) plus 5 (Magnus) plus d6 Warp Charges per turn. Unless any of them are by Magnus, in which case, they get extra.

That being said, 104 should be enough to do literally anything you need to.

How do you beat that? Write me a list.

You could probably do it in 4,000. Warlord Titan, a Grey Knight Librarian, and enough Inquisitorial Henchmen to feed him enough denial dice to turn off any powers that can affect the Warlord.

(As of the most current FAQ the 6e Inquisition book is still legal. 104 Warp Charge at 6k sounds good, but at 18pts/WC you can break 300 with that book easily enough.)

Except Magnus manifests on a 2+, and you deny on a 4+ (at ABSOLUTE BEST-Psyker with Adamantium Will) and, if Magnus picks his targets well, on a 6+ (Warlord and no Psykers). So if you toss, say, 18 warp charges per D-Beam, that's 15 successes, requiring around 90 warp charges to deny. You can do it for the first three. But not the next two.

Edit: Plus this is a list I took literally minutes to make. It's just warp batteries and Magnus. I'm sure there are much more potent combos.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Except Magnus manifests on a 2+, and you deny on a 4+ (at ABSOLUTE BEST-Psyker with Adamantium Will) and, if Magnus picks his targets well, on a 6+ (Warlord and no Psykers). So if you toss, say, 18 warp charges per D-Beam, that's 15 successes, requiring around 90 warp charges to deny. You can do it for the first three. But not the next two.

Edit: Plus this is a list I took literally minutes to make. It's just warp batteries and Magnus. I'm sure there are much more potent combos.

Alternately take two Warlord Titans and ignore Magnus. He takes a very long time to kill one, at one D-strength hit a turn that's six turns to get through one Warlord's Void Shields (assuming it doesn't regen any, there's a 0.02% chance of that happening), and thirty-odd S10/SD Large Blasts and the 48 S6 shots from the Mauler guns every turn are going to eat up a pretty massive chunk of his psychic battery without caring.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Okay, then write me a 6,000 point list to beat:

1500-Magnus
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
95-Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
108-12 Pink Horrors
40-Aegis Defense Line
5976 Points

44 (Pink Horrors) plus 60 (Heralds) plus 5 (Magnus) plus d6 Warp Charges per turn. Unless any of them are by Magnus, in which case, they get extra.

That being said, 104 should be enough to do literally anything you need to.

How do you beat that? Write me a list.

That's still not legal. 6000 or more brah.
Why did you make all units psykers? That's a fething terrible idea... Magnus is your sole source of reasonable dakka bro. And he'll have to cross at least a 5 foot gap to use his Gaze.
All right here goes a list that will near table that turn 1.
Lord of War
Warlord Titan w/ 2 Macro gatling blasters (12 S:10 AP:3 Large blasts at BS:4 per turn), 2 Vortex Missile Banks (That's 4 SD Large Blast Vortexes. One use though) 3050 points
HQ
Legion Praetor 100 points
Troops
10 man Legion tac 150
10 man Legion tac 150
Fast Attack
3 gun Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery all w/ Twin linked Lascannons 120
3 gun Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery all w/ Twin linked Lascannons 120
3 gun Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery all w/ Twin linked Lascannons 120
Elites
3 man Contemptor Dreadnought Talon each w/ Heavy Conversion Beamer 600
3 man Contemptor Dreadnought Talon each w/ Heavy Conversion Beamer 600
3 man Contemptor Dreadnought Talon each w/ Heavy Conversion Beamer 600
3 man Techmarine Covenant 135 points
Total 5745 pts

So dakka wise we have
9 BS:4 S:10 AP:1 Large Blasts 72" (Contemptors)
12 BS:4 S:10 AP:3 Large Blasts 72" (Warlord)
4 BS:4 SD Large Blast Vortexes 360" (Warlord)
9 BS:4 S:9 AP:2 Twin Linked Skyfire 48" (Tarantulas)

Magnus has to glide turn 1. That turn he'll eat 4 SD shots (If you recall my math earlier already enough to kill him assuming all 4 hit), 10 S:10 AP:1 BS:4 shots (about enough to kill him all over again), and 12 S:10 AP:3 BS:4 shots. Assuming I want to ensure his death well hes dead.

Also for fuckits I'll sum up the surface area covered in death:
412 sq in. coated in S:10
78.53 sq in coated in SD Vortexes

Your army? What? All I see are craters.

Except this Magnus can get 5 D-Beams per turn. How much HP and Void Shields do Warlord Titans have?

Okay, quick google shows they have 6 Void Shields and 30 HP each. So, that is a minimum two turns to kill them. Still.

Edit: And if you don't get first turn?

Also, 24 points short. I'll add in 3 pink horrors, done. Now it's 6003.

Edit II: 4 SD shots. That's probably around 3 hits, since they are large blasts. They each do, on average, ((1/6)*0)+(((2/3)*2*(7/12)))+((1/6)*9.5) 2.36 wounds. Or, not enough to kill him, unless all 4 hit.

9 S10 AP1 shots will do, let's say, 7 hits, since they're blasts. That's 7 hits, which is 5.83 wounds, which is only 3.4 after his Invuln.

The 12 S10 AP3 Large Blasts? Hell, all 12 can hit, and then they only do on average .27 wounds, since he has a 2+ rerollable armour save against them.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
...Warlord Titan w/ 2 Macro gatling blasters (12 S:10 AP:3 Large blasts at BS:4 per turn), 2 Vortex Missile Banks (That's 4 SD Large Blast Vortexes. One use though) 3050 points...

I never really got the Vortex Missiles. Yes, you get four D-strength Vortexes, but they're one-shot and fifty points more than taking the Reaver laser blasters and getting six D-strength shots a turn that don't go away.

I suppose it's a question of whether you're playing on a table big enough that 96" can't hit the whole thing and on whether you're expecting the Warlord to die.

I guess it's rocket tag. If the Titan gets first turn, he can wipe Magnus out and win... With some luck. Not a ton, but some is needed.

If Magnus goes first, he can fly, and it's game over, since most of those shots are blasts and can't touch him. Yes, you have a little skyfiring lascannons, but not enough to knock him from the sky, realistically.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Except this Magnus can get 5 D-Beams per turn. How much HP and Void Shields do Warlord Titans have?

Okay, quick google shows they have 6 Void Shields and 30 HP each. So, that is a minimum two turns to kill them. Still.

Edit: And if you don't get first turn?

Also, 24 points short. I'll add in 3 pink horrors, done. Now it's 6003.

No part of my strategy relies on getting turn 1.
Magnus is forced to glide for the entire first turn. Hes deader than dirt.
Again a minimum of 5 actually. He has to cross that distance.
He's also dead turn 1 btw, along with almost half your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I guess it's rocket tag. If the Titan gets first turn, he can wipe Magnus out and win... With some luck. Not a ton, but some is needed.

If Magnus goes first, he can fly, and it's game over, since most of those shots are blasts and can't touch him. Yes, you have a little skyfiring lascannons, but not enough to knock him from the sky, realistically.

The Warlord can snap shot with Blasts bro. And does so at BS:2. He's still dead. He'll just suffer more. He'll never make it to the warlord.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Except this Magnus can get 5 D-Beams per turn. How much HP and Void Shields do Warlord Titans have?

Okay, quick google shows they have 6 Void Shields and 30 HP each. So, that is a minimum two turns to kill them. Still.

Edit: And if you don't get first turn?

Also, 24 points short. I'll add in 3 pink horrors, done. Now it's 6003.

Oh, just noticed that. To the OP I do recommend dropping the ability to use the same power multiple times a turn. Mostly for the five D-strength beams problem. (Also killing one in two turns requires you to roll a lot of 6s in a row, realistically you're looking at 3-4 turns.)

Also depending on your interpretation of the rules for Beams and the Sisters of Silence rules you could surround your Warlord with Sisters such that you can't shoot the beam in without hitting one of them and getting turned off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I guess it's rocket tag. If the Titan gets first turn, he can wipe Magnus out and win... With some luck. Not a ton, but some is needed.

If Magnus goes first, he can fly, and it's game over, since most of those shots are blasts and can't touch him. Yes, you have a little skyfiring lascannons, but not enough to knock him from the sky, realistically.

The Warlord can snap shot with Blasts bro. And does so at BS:2. He's still dead. He'll just suffer more. He'll never make it to the warlord.

Interesting point on this subject (I bring it up because it's not widely known), blasts actually can hit FMCs/FGCs while they're in the air. They can't hit vehicles with the Flyer type, but they can hit FMCs. It doesn't usually come up because you need Skyfire-capable Blasts, which are few and far between.

(Which could make the Thunderhawk not a bad tool for fighting this Magnus. Beams can't hit Flyers, so it's throwing D-strength shots at him and he's not doing much back.)

(And the Hemlock, for that matter. Mass quantities of D-strength blasts in the air that are not vulnerable to his beam shenanigans for a comically low price.)

5 Auto-hits on the D-table. Assuming absolutely nothing else hits them, it shuts down 5 Void Shields turn 1. (Any D-hit breaks a Void Shield.) 1.67 come back, leaving them with 2.67 turn two.

Each Beam deals (0)+((2/3)*2*(2/3))+((1/6)*9.5)=2.47 HP on average. So turn 2, they take 5.76 HP.

Each turn after, 2 Void Shields come back on average, meaning 3 D-Beams go through, dealing 7.41 HP. So it'll actually be around turn 5 they die.

Of course, this will be INCREDIBLY swingy. Turn 2 could potentially see their demise, if Magnus rolls a few lucky 6s.

Edit: And Magnus is not forced to glide turn one. He's only forced to if he wants to use his super power, which... Why would you, in this case?

Five D-strength hits to kill this Magnus, by my count. 555pts of Hemlocks. 925pts to make up for the Reserves rolls. One turn of D-beams, and then he's gone and his army's Perilsing again at Ld8 because they're under the Hemlocks.

 JNAProductions wrote:
5 Auto-hits on the D-table. Assuming absolutely nothing else hits them, it shuts down 5 Void Shields turn 1. (Any D-hit breaks a Void Shield.) 1.67 come back, leaving them with 2.67 turn two.

Each Beam deals (0)+((2/3)*2*(2/3))+((1/6)*9.5)=2.47 HP on average. So turn 2, they take 5.76 HP.

Each turn after, 2 Void Shields come back on average, meaning 3 D-Beams go through, dealing 7.41 HP. So it'll actually be around turn 5 they die.

Of course, this will be INCREDIBLY swingy. Turn 2 could potentially see their demise, if Magnus rolls a few lucky 6s.

Edit: And Magnus is not forced to glide turn one. He's only forced to if he wants to use his super power, which... Why would you, in this case?

Unless I'm mistaken all FMCs and FGCs are required to spend their first turn gliding. Wait that's only if they want to charge.
He'll take 3 turns to get to them. in that time he's dead.
There's no way for him to win.
What's worse with him gone your army has no hope of closing the distance to do a single wound of damage.
And they're likely exterminated by turn 3 due to the sheer amount of surface area coated in blast.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
5 Auto-hits on the D-table. Assuming absolutely nothing else hits them, it shuts down 5 Void Shields turn 1. (Any D-hit breaks a Void Shield.) 1.67 come back, leaving them with 2.67 turn two.

Each Beam deals (0)+((2/3)*2*(2/3))+((1/6)*9.5)=2.47 HP on average. So turn 2, they take 5.76 HP.

Each turn after, 2 Void Shields come back on average, meaning 3 D-Beams go through, dealing 7.41 HP. So it'll actually be around turn 5 they die.

Of course, this will be INCREDIBLY swingy. Turn 2 could potentially see their demise, if Magnus rolls a few lucky 6s.

Edit: And Magnus is not forced to glide turn one. He's only forced to if he wants to use his super power, which... Why would you, in this case?

Unless I'm mistaken all FMCs and FGCs are required to spend their first turn gliding. Wait that's only if they want to charge.
He'll take 3 turns to get to them. in that time he's dead.
There's no way for him to win.
What's worse with him gone your army has no hope of closing the distance to do a single wound of damage.

With a 24" move? How far away are the Titans? Because, if it takes 3 turns, that's more than 90" away, since his beam has an 18" reach.

And again-that is a list I made in minutes. I guarantee you there are far, far better ones.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
5 Auto-hits on the D-table. Assuming absolutely nothing else hits them, it shuts down 5 Void Shields turn 1. (Any D-hit breaks a Void Shield.) 1.67 come back, leaving them with 2.67 turn two.

Each Beam deals (0)+((2/3)*2*(2/3))+((1/6)*9.5)=2.47 HP on average. So turn 2, they take 5.76 HP.

Each turn after, 2 Void Shields come back on average, meaning 3 D-Beams go through, dealing 7.41 HP. So it'll actually be around turn 5 they die.

Of course, this will be INCREDIBLY swingy. Turn 2 could potentially see their demise, if Magnus rolls a few lucky 6s.

Edit: And Magnus is not forced to glide turn one. He's only forced to if he wants to use his super power, which... Why would you, in this case?

Unless I'm mistaken all FMCs and FGCs are required to spend their first turn gliding. Wait that's only if they want to charge.
He'll take 3 turns to get to them. in that time he's dead.
There's no way for him to win.
What's worse with him gone your army has no hope of closing the distance to do a single wound of damage.
And they're likely exterminated by turn 3 due to the sheer amount of surface area coated in blast.

(Given that it takes five D-strength hits to kill him and the Warlords can snapfire 6+ D-blasts each at BS2 this Magnus is probably dead turn two at the latest anyway.)

I'd really like to see the rule that says you can fire blasts at FMCs.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
5 Auto-hits on the D-table. Assuming absolutely nothing else hits them, it shuts down 5 Void Shields turn 1. (Any D-hit breaks a Void Shield.) 1.67 come back, leaving them with 2.67 turn two.

Each Beam deals (0)+((2/3)*2*(2/3))+((1/6)*9.5)=2.47 HP on average. So turn 2, they take 5.76 HP.

Each turn after, 2 Void Shields come back on average, meaning 3 D-Beams go through, dealing 7.41 HP. So it'll actually be around turn 5 they die.

Of course, this will be INCREDIBLY swingy. Turn 2 could potentially see their demise, if Magnus rolls a few lucky 6s.

Edit: And Magnus is not forced to glide turn one. He's only forced to if he wants to use his super power, which... Why would you, in this case?

Unless I'm mistaken all FMCs and FGCs are required to spend their first turn gliding. Wait that's only if they want to charge.
He'll take 3 turns to get to them. in that time he's dead.
There's no way for him to win.
What's worse with him gone your army has no hope of closing the distance to do a single wound of damage.

With a 24" move? How far away are the Titans? Because, if it takes 3 turns, that's more than 90" away, since his beam has an 18" reach.

And again-that is a list I made in minutes. I guarantee you there are far, far better ones.

All right getting rid of his ability to spam the same power.
Assuming counter deployment 90 inches isn't all that unreasonable. He'd also be within range of the Lascannons on the second turn.

90" isn't unreasonable? The average table is only 72" long. I get that Apoc games play on bigger tables, but you're stacking the deck pretty hard in the favor of the titans.

 JNAProductions wrote:
90" isn't unreasonable? The average table is only 72" long. I get that Apoc games play on bigger tables, but you're stacking the deck pretty hard in the favor of the titans.

Some trig will tell you I can place the tian significantly further when the shortest distance between them isn't a straight line.