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I highly recommend conscripts with a priest, especially serving as your advancing infantry. Incredibly cheap, and with orders/psyker support they can put out an obscene amount of fire. As for the two required infantry squads, I typically run them as one 20 man group with heavy weapons to serve as supporting fire.

(...and the infantry is so cheap, still gives you plenty of room for other equipment)

 deltaKshatriya wrote:


Interesting, so you're staying away from armor overall, opting instead to use transports, heavy weapons teams, and meltas. There's not even a ton of artillery in your list, which I find very surprising tbh.

Yes, armor just is not a significant obstacle in 40K anymore. The nerf to grenades certainly increased the value of armor but not significantly enough to tilt the scale.

As for Artillery: Remember that this is my Militarum Tempestus version which can be changed to Astra militarum easily. My true Astra Militarum version has artillery and i will post it. I just keep thinking about it when I'm away from the home comp where it is. Lol. Manticores, Wyverns, basilisks...

But in this version of the list, it is highly mobile, it carries a scathing amount of anti-infantry ability from Volley guns and Hot shot guns to the blob and the light transports that hit a lot harder than almost any transport in the game. It can score anywhere it needs to which is its real strength, deny where it needs to and anything that gets close to this blob, dies.

The weakest thing about it is simply the temptation not to move the blob. I have seen people play this kind of army very poorly before. The temptation to treat the blob as a fire base instead of as a hammering blow is strong in IG players. This unit should pretty much be moving every round and treated like an ork horde. The shoot and run order oughtto be embraced, or even the Move move move order. By pressuring the field early and often it stops enemies from curtailing our movement towards objectives with things like tanks. While the blob will deal with a singular tank without issue, the grenade nerf REALLY hurt its ability against spammed vehicles up the gut. So there are some tactical pitfalls, and if a player doesn't keep those things in mind, it won't go as well. You need to be taking position fairly constantly with it. Psyker powers will make that less of a sacrifice than it sounds.

The Militarum Tempestus orders are just excellent. They really make the force shine a lot. You could even alter the list ever so slightly and use the Formation wherein the reserves come in all at once and twin link any unit that jumps out of a Taurox. So you can employ some pretty deadly stuff using them and they are a lot of fun to play. Always jump them into terrain (move through cover makes Dangerous Terrain Tests no big deal) when Deep Striking. The defensive value of cover is as important to the army as it is for Dark Eldar who fight EXTREMELY similarly to this army.

As for the Astra Militarum version, the MT are essentially replaced with Artillery. The Mont'Ka book gives the Basilisk new life in the force. Basilisk that ignores cover, manticopre Barrages and Wyverns? Some people are going to feel that early and often. The blob remains because it is simply too good a deterrent and it protects the artillery pretty easily. ruins + Camo netting help also. 3+ saves? Pretty darn good.

Wyverns do a shocking amount of work most of the time. Manticore STR 10 handles multiwound models, because just little bad luck for the enemy goes a long way for the Manticore. The Basilisk is ideal for tough single wound things and just anti-personnel in general and ignoring cover is gold against Scatter Bikes or things like Ghostkeels, at AP 3.

All of this ASSUMES you wish to play Astra Militarum, so those who wish to say "X does it better" or what have you are not worth listening to because they are missing the point: you WANT to play Astra Militarum. So If you'd like to play Astra Militarum in the first place, It is hard to argue against Artillery and infantry. I find it difficult to argue FOR Leman Russ based Astra Militarum knowing the tournament scene as I do. there are simply too many Grav Cannons, Corpsethief Claws, Stromsurges, Magnus's and Skathach Wraith Knights out there to feel in any way comfortable with an armored approach. When you create an army with very few models and rely on them for victory, as elite as they may be, you know going in that other elite armies are going to have very little work to do. I would never suggest that you cannot win playing with the vaunted Leman Russ's; merely that it would be difficult at best to compete at tournaments doing it.

I see, so you go for the highly mobile version of the blob to secure objectives and at the same time have the ability to kill most things pretty quickly, with the use of orders, but you do so by remaining mobile. I can see how this can work, with a lot of really careful planning.

I feel that the main thing the Wyvern has going for it is how cheap it is in point costs and it does put out a good amount of damage, especially with shred and ignores cover. I like my Manticore, just haven't run it recently tbh. I currently have no Basilisks, so I should probably get them.

Well it's unfortunate I'll have to abandon my tanks to make my army more competitive. Should I basically get rid of all of my tanks, or keep some? Or do I keep the armored company formation that I currently run but add in more artillery somewhere?

Should I keep my Knight Paladin, or is it just too many points for one unit?

And also, do people feel that Imperial fliers are any good?

I know that we've been discussing this for some time, but I'm finding it fairly interesting to discuss the merits and demerits of the army.

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
I see, so you go for the highly mobile version of the blob to secure objectives and at the same time have the ability to kill most things pretty quickly, with the use of orders, but you do so by remaining mobile. I can see how this can work, with a lot of really careful planning.

I feel that the main thing the Wyvern has going for it is how cheap it is in point costs and it does put out a good amount of damage, especially with shred and ignores cover. I like my Manticore, just haven't run it recently tbh. I currently have no Basilisks, so I should probably get them.

Well it's unfortunate I'll have to abandon my tanks to make my army more competitive. Should I basically get rid of all of my tanks, or keep some? Or do I keep the armored company formation that I currently run but add in more artillery somewhere?

Should I keep my Knight Paladin, or is it just too many points for one unit?

And also, do people feel that Imperial fliers are any good?

I know that we've been discussing this for some time, but I'm finding it fairly interesting to discuss the merits and demerits of the army.

Play what's fun to you. I'm only talking from a tournament perspective, where you are trying to actively win the thing and prepare for the worst. Tanks can work in more laid back games, but we havent seen them take the gold in any recent memory, in that form. The Knight Paladin is cool. Fitting it into a list is tough but it IS easier to do with a Tank army because they kind of need a unit that can economically provide board control just long enough to get that extra round of shooting in. I wouldnt get rid of it if you like playing tanks. I personally dont think much of the Astra Militarum flyers. That's just me. You have to take a lot of them to make it cool. The Wyvern is just flat out worth it. Soooooo worth it.

As for the blob:

The thing with the blob is you want the Forewarning power and you want to fish with it til you get it. Also Presceince as a Primaris obviously is good. Summoning does not suck as it adds ever more padding and threat for enemies to deal with.

Fun fact: Enginseer + Manticore. It's just silly. Do some reading and ponder it. =)


Below is kind of my go at the Astra Militarum I've been talking about A Few points to make:

1. Psykers are most definitely a thing in the serious tournaments and while you certainly aren't GUARANTEED to face one, believe me when I say having no answer for it is just a bad idea. Serious problem, especially when its coming from the sky. Relic Plating is a cheap upgrade for the vehicles you have in the force, and the force is pretty much all Adamantium Will. To reinforce the point, I also included the necessary Assassin for dealing with the Chaos Cabal+Dawgstars of the universe, Screamer stars and have I mentioned Magnus? Librarious Conclaves or just Tigurius?

2. Wyverns can replace the Hydras easily. Let me warn you that having no way to knock down Magnus's flying batteries (I'm sorry, the Rehati Formation he flies with) or just straight up skimmers and normal flyers can end your game pretty quickly. You have about one round to do some damage to super flying Circus's and after that if you haven't, the swarm of ridiculous summoning and trouble begins. I sincerely wish I could get away from the need for Hydras but I have failed to do so, to date. There seems to always be a choice target for them even when you do occasionally end up with just a Twin linked STR 7 AP 4 Snap firing platform. For 70 points you can do a ton worse. They still score, they still tank shock, ablate shooting, still have Heavy Bolters and their Autocannons do in fact do some damage even when they are snap firing. Just remember that in the games you cannot use them specifically against a Jetbike, Skimmer or flyer.
4. The Tactical Auto-Reliquary of Tyberius is pretty sweet for an army such as this. I would have preferred to fit all this in the Cadian Battlegroup Formation but for some idiotic reason they made sure that no Astra Militarum player will ever use the formation, because basically there's never going to be a time when you will want to build your units out like it requires. The points to do it would be absurd. Nonetheless, this relic is the next best thing.

Here's that list:

Detachment: 'Emperor's Wrath' Artillery Company (17#, 1065 pts): Adds the “Smite at Will”, “Suppressive Fire: and “Fire on my Target” Orders for vehicles. Vox Caster can Twin Link the Formation on a single target within 18” of the Voxcaster.
5 Company Command (Voxcaster, Carapace Armor, Plasma gun x3. 1 Company Commander carries The Tactical Auto-Reliquary of Tyberius + Carapace Armour)
1 Chimera (Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber + Relic plating+ Camo Netting)
1 Basilisk (Relic plating + Camo netting)
2 Hydra ( 2 x Relic Plating +1 x Camo Netting)
1 Manticore, (Relic plating + Camo Netting )
1 Enginseer

Primaris Psyker (Level 2)
Primaris Psyker (Level 2)
Primaris Psyker (Level 2)

Ministorum Priest
Ministorum Priest
Ministorum Priest

Detachment: Officio Assassinorum (1#, 140 pts)
Culexus Assassin

Detachment: Emperors Shield Infantry Platoon (58#, 632pts): Move through Cover when within 9” of Sintinels, Adds the “Fire and Advance” Order
50 Imperial Guardsman (5 Sniper Rifles, 1 Vox Caster, 4x power Axes, 4 Meltabombs, 5x LasCannons)

5 man Platoon Command (Vox caster, 3 Flamers)

1 Scout Sintinels (LasCannons)
1 Scout Sintinels (LasCannons, Search Light)
1 Scout Sintinels (LasCannons, Search Light)

Points: 1850
Kill Points: 18-22
Models: 81

For that many points in Primaris Psykers why not run Psykanna Division? Harness on 2+.. If you don't want to spend that much run the Harness 3+ Version from imperial agents.

That wrath formation seems like it really needs the 10 point Volcov's Cane.

For anti-air isn't an aegis defence line quad gun more effective? Gives you something to stick the camo netted tanks behind too.

I don't know it just seems like such a small amount of models. But hey I'm far from a tournament player.

... On another note; Mr.More Tanks took first at the Harvester of Souls GT in 2015 using a AM list. His looked roughly like this:

----Mr More Tanks List---
**AM Detatchment**
-Yarrick in a blob

-40 Man Blob with 5 Lascannons
-40 Man Blob with 5 Lascannons

Vulture Gunship - Twin-Linked Punisher Cannons
Vulture Gunship - Twin-Linked Punisher Cannons

**Armoured Battle Group**

CCT Vanquisher with Beasthunter Shells

Armoured Fist Squad - Autocannon, Chimera
Armoured Fist Squad - Autocannon, Chimera
Armoured Fist Squad - Autocannon, Chimera


**Librarian Conclave **
White scars libby lvl 2
White scars libby lvl 1
White scars libby lvl 1

.....

Granted the hit and run librarians go into the blobs to allow them to jump out of combat... which is very nice. But you don't have to abuse that to see how this list works. Lots of bodies, and ignores cover lascannons safe from getting popped by their meat shields.

 mtcwalker wrote:
For that many points in Primaries Psykers why not run Psykanna Division? Harness on 2+.. If you don't want to spend that much run the Harness 3+ Version.

That wrath formation seems like it really needs the 10 point Volvos Cane.

For anti-air isn't an aegis defence line quad gun more effective? Gives you something to stick the camp netted tanks behind too.

I don't know it just seems like such a small amount of models. But hey I'm far from a tournament player.

... On another note; Mr.More Tanks took first at the Harvester of Souls GT in 2015 using a AM list. His looked roughly like this:

----Mr More Tanks List---
**AM Detatchment**
-Yarrick in a blob

-40 Man Blob with 5 Lascannons
-40 Man Blob with 5 Lascannons

Vulture Gunship - Twin-Linked Punisher Cannons
Vulture Gunship - Twin-Linked Punisher Cannons

**Armoured Battle Group**

CCT Vanquisher with Beasthunter Shells

Armoured Fist Squad - Autocannon, Chimera
Armoured Fist Squad - Autocannon, Chimera
Armoured Fist Squad - Autocannon, Chimera


**Librarian Conclave **
White scars libby lvl 2
White scars libby lvl 1
White scars libby lvl 1

.....

Granted the hit and run librarians go into the blobs to allow them to jump out of combat... which is very nice. But you don't have to abuse that to see how this list works. Lots of bodies, and ignores cover lascannons safe from getting popped by their meat shields.

I saw Mr. Moretanks play his army at the Guardian Cup. yup. Although he can only have 4 lascannons in the 40 man blob

So let me address what you said:

I was very tempted by the Cane as well. I like the Cane a lot. The 6" range kind of gave me pause. The blob WILL be advancing. The Company command needs to be within 18" to use its spotting ability as well. So the range of the Cane is the real issue. I absolutely am not disagreeing with the usefulness of it obviously. It just works against the spotting ability of that unit.

The Psycanna division "does powers", but the thing you actually need is the Psykers to be inside the blob. Only the Psyker can join the unit. So it doesnt really work. The Psykers are there to buff the blob and make it unstoppable. most of the powers you need only work on the unit the Psyker is in.

The Aegis gun is cool but it is half the firepower and besides that in order to take it, you must take a Combined Arms Detachment which there just aren't points for. It's not a terrible solution but it doesnt work in the list. Too expensive to get it in there. I work on the assumption that there will always be terrain and so the tanks will alsways be sporting 4+ or 3+ cover saves even without the Aegis. I do agree that if you went a slightly different road on this list and gave up the Emperors Shield abilities you could get the points and the blob would be more efficient (rarely does it need to be 50 strong. 40 usually is plenty) but the Move through cover for a round or two is a pretty good deal for this unit as you learn when you get to using it a lot and the Order they get just doubles down on it making the blob very mobile compared to normal. You'd have to give up a lot to have that Aegis.

Also keep in mind that the Psykers, once they roll Forewarning, can then go on the Daemonology table and get summoning and/or dare to dream Incursion (Because Plague Drones are awesome). Maybe even go for Hammerhand. Whatevs. So there's cavalry on the way (sometimes literally if you get Blood Crushers)!








Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought about this a little more.

If you were willing to drop the Culexus Assassin, then you would have some points to spend on a Psycanna group to give you more juice. the uber nerf that the Culexus gets is probably more mileage but the Psycanna group does offer more dice to throw. I guess in a owrld where you're a little underrepresented in the Psyker area, the real question is whether defense is your better bet. If defense, culexus/Sisters of Silence. If offense, the Psykana group.

How have your Sentinels worked out? You have them in your list, so I'm curious, since I've heard people recommend them o me before.

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
How have your Sentinels worked out? You have them in your list, so I'm curious, since I've heard people recommend them o me before.

They're honestly nothing special. The Formation requires them and hey, if someone wants to spend a 160 or 200 point unit killing one, I guess I'm pretty okay with that trade. the game is about trades in so many ways. but the thrat that is your blob and artillery might make the Sintinels in this particular list last a little longer. Oh they might shoot one just for First Blood of course (though hopefully you go first right?) but I dont know how willing the enemy will be to focus fire on lowly sintinels after the first one goes down.

The Sintinels can serve two really nice roles. First they offer the Move Through Cover to the blob. that's actually a big deal. You will only need it for a couple of turns so it will be fine if they perish by then.

The other thing these particular ones do is outflank. I REALLY wanted to get 2 into each unit because when you have two of them, there's a fair chance they can lock up normal units for a while. In a 2K game I would add more sintinels. there are some low str things with good AP and those are also good to lock up with Sintinels. The Armored Sintinels are super tempting for all the obvious reasons and if you have 15 points to kill, it might be worth it but then they lose outflanking and Scout.

Outflanking allows you to hit from a better angle and make the Lascannon more effective but maybe more importantly you can hide a Scout Sintinel and line break. The list is tight and the Culexus is the number one thing you can negotiate with so if you felt inclined and you arent facing much in the way of Psykers in casual games, you could switch out. In normal tournaments though, that Culexus is pretty clutch.

Very Intresting thread

Have to agree with what's been said about russes they just die to easy to be useful
I've never used blob squads myself as I'm not a fan of them but will agree with what been Said
I tend to run a light armour spam type list that's done ok at events here in the uk
I also find forgeworld to have some good units to look at the vulture being the stand out unit

In my opinion the only decent fluffy detachment to run Astra militarum is the castellan detachment.
With desvalles holy circle pask becomes significantly more survivable with 4++, no deep strike within 12in and auto mishap if you scatter in 12in. This gives you a huge no deep strike zone in your deployment area.
Add in the mandatory Cortez for detachment wife obj secured and his super interceptor bubble.
And sprinkle the rest of the list with rending tempestus or platoons that respawn when killed. You can take psybolt ammo chimeras with acolytes aka cheap veterans. There are so many ways to build this flexible detachment I foresee it being very popular.

gungo wrote:
In my opinion the only decent fluffy detachment to run Astra militarum is the castellan detachment.
With desvalles holy circle pask becomes significantly more survivable with 4++, no deep strike within 12in and auto mishap if you scatter in 12in. This gives you a huge no deep strike zone in your deployment area.
Add in the mandatory Cortez for detachment wife obj secured and his super interceptor bubble.
And sprinkle the rest of the list with rending tempestus or platoons that respawn when killed. You can take psybolt ammo chimeras with acolytes aka cheap veterans. There are so many ways to build this flexible detachment I foresee it being very popular.

The Castellan Formation certainly added to the options. Having to take FOUR troops choices and two HQ's does make it a little tough to capitalize on what is possible because in a Leman Russ baaed list, you're always scrounging for points and now you have to take two HQ's one of which will surely be Pask and his attendent tank buddy, and the other seems as if you'd want Cawl and you're talking about taking Coteaz also? I mean before you blink you have spent a ton just qualifying for the Formation and "maximizing" it. that is my chief concern with the Formation. its essentially giving you something similar to a dual CAD situation, but you lose the Fortification option and gain 0-3 Lord of War slots. Unfortunately, ITC tournaments generally allow 0-1. So in an ITC tournament scene, the advantages are narrowed to the special rules of the Formation. Its unlikely you will ever fill all the slots so you are getting Hatred (but that was already happening with the Priest in the blob) and so then what are you reeeeeally getting?

Well if your wish is to play Astra Militarum, not a lot more? It's going to give you the ability to plug some holes, but at a tax. I feel as if this Formation was more of a narrative creation, to represent the epic battle on Cadia more than to be used at the 1850 and smaller sizes you see tournaments typically go. I am going to play with it though and see what I can come up with.

If you like Tanks, Cawl is just a definite must though. He is great for such armies.

I'm confused by your example since nothing you mentioned is required by the castellan but are units you want; that drive up the cost.

Pask is a preference nor is required but you should take it if you want a tank themed list. Cortez is dirt cheap at 100pts and gives every non-vehicle obj secured. Cawl is a huge point sink regardless what list you take him in and is severely underserved in army without ad mech units. The only cost basis for a castellan detachment is requiring 4 troop choices but those are akso the best slot since all troops respawn. The only cost issue with castellan is the fact it's so flexible you want to add in to much. That's not a negative issue at all.

they respawn on a 5+. thats far from a guarantee but sure. they do sometimes. Out of four troops...one probably will? So i mean... I dunno.

This Formation looks like it would be much better at large points levels but at 1850 it looks OKAY? I think Cawl is a beast and can provide some melee support up close. Drop Armies in particular are of concern to tank armies...and they aren't rare.

Tank armies are just SO vulnerable to things like Wolfstars, Drop pods and the "fishing for 6's" of the White Scars battle Companies and if the Battle company brings a few meltas just in case, well...

It's uphill no matter how ya slice it for IG tank armies unless they have a way to keep the wolves at bay..

The 5+ respawn is nice and all but hardly the sole reask. This detachment is the best Astra militarum detachment. Another reason is this detachment also opens up the ecclessiry relics one of which specifically counters your complaint on drop pod armies. For 30 points the character (including pask) receives a 4++ invul, completely Denys all deepstrike within 12in, and automatically mishaps any deepstrike that even scatters within 12in. That alone helps keep tanks alive. Add in the 100pt Cortez who gives all units in the detachment obj secured and you are already ahead of a CAD, but he as well has a 12in bubble for his unit to automatically shoot any type of deepstrike, outflanking, infiltrating, etc units that come in range.
nearly every unit and special character in the Astra militarum and militarum tempestus book is available in this detachment.

again I hardly see how this detachment is any more costly or worse than any other AM detachment beyond 100pt Cortez and 2 more respawning troop choices unless you were dying to play with fortifications. This detachment is just flat out better then a CAD or cadia detachment.

gungo wrote:
The 5+ respawn is nice and all but hardly the sole reask. This detachment is the best Astra militarum detachment. Another reason is this detachment also opens up the ecclessiry relics one of which specifically counters your complaint on drop pod armies. For 30 points the character (including pask) receives a 4++ invul, completely Denys all deepstrike within 12in, and automatically mishaps any deepstrike that even scatters within 12in. That alone helps keep tanks alive. Add in the 100pt Cortez who gives all units in the detachment obj secured and you are already ahead of a CAD, but he as well has a 12in bubble for his unit to automatically shoot any type of deepstrike, outflanking, infiltrating, etc units that come in range.
nearly every unit and special character in the Astra militarum and militarum tempestus book is available in this detachment.

again I hardly see how this detachment is any more costly or worse than any other AM detachment beyond 100pt Cortez and 2 more respawning troop choices unless you were dying to play with fortifications. This detachment is just flat out better then a CAD or cadia detachment.

The Cadian BattleGroup is almost impossible to build well at tournamnet standard points so yeah its better than that is. We are talking about two different things though.

As TANK armies go, if you want one, the Castellan Formation is not terrible at all. But you still have a Tank army. And so. There's that.

You are REQUIRED to take FOUR units from the following list, without Obsec, for your tank army just to do it: Infantry Platoon, Veterans, Battle sisters, Scions, Crusaders, Scouts or tactical Squads. Thats not a small number of points at all. You can easily hit 400 points and probably more once they are armed or mobilized and the like.

The Two HQ's that make sense for an armored column of Leman Russ's are probably Pask tank unit (and he cannot take relics but would already be in the army so no loss there) and a character that can TAKE that relic (probably an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor or something like that for 60 points or more), and then you want Coteaz also. So that's four units of troops and 160 points all spent to give the Tank army a fighting chance. You could easily be 500 points before you buy a single tank. Will those units you chose serve admirably? we hope so.

Now I'm sort of of the opinion that those small units you used to justify this Formation might work out but none of them is a superior threat in their own right at minimal sizes and you've spent an awful lot just to QUALIFY for the detachment right? You did it to have a tank army. Well that leaves you around 1200 points or so to get them. That's about 7 tanks, which includes Pask.

That's good but its not enough. A bit of anti air or something else to top it off and you're done. 7 tanks. Maybe squeeze in 8. You're losing about 4 tanks to the prerequisities. Worth it? Maybe?

I think the Relic is superb and I agree that getting it in somehow is good. I love GreyFax and that relic doing work side by side. great answer to the alphs shenanigans.Maybe try it with the tanks and just see how it goes?

Wyverns are good because they force lots of armor/invul saves, and they tend to make their points back after firing once. Having even one Wyvern made a huge difference when I recently played Ravenwing with their rerollable Jink shenanigans, as well as using the Ignore Cover order on my HWS and infantry blob.

I personally like to bring out Pasknisher with lascannon and multimeltas for his raw damage output against anything within 24". Though very points inefficient, I tend to give him camo netting and stick Bullgryns in front of him so he can have a 3+ cover save for the turn or two he isn't in range. The ability to absorb damage from very high S guns and come out unscathed is worth the points IMO, but YMMV. It's basically my version of a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX.

gungo wrote:
For 30 points the character (including pask) receives a 4++ invul, completely Denys all deepstrike within 12in, and automatically mishaps any deepstrike that even scatters within 12in.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is Knight-commander Pask allowed to take a relic? He doesn't have the option to take relics in Codex: Astra Militarum, so I'm not sure how he'd be able to take an Ecclesiarchy Relic.

I dont think he can. that was just an error i think? I know of nothing that would allow it.

KestrelM1 wrote:

gungo wrote:
For 30 points the character (including pask) receives a 4++ invul, completely Denys all deepstrike within 12in, and automatically mishaps any deepstrike that even scatters within 12in.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is Knight-commander Pask allowed to take a relic? He doesn't have the option to take relics in Codex: Astra Militarum, so I'm not sure how he'd be able to take an Ecclesiarchy Relic.

I Made a mistake saw someone else on he dakka list section with it and forgot neither he nor tank commanders had access to relic lists.

I have been having some good success with taking Guard back to basics recently, mass infantry backed up by tanks.

My current favorite list, semi competitive is...

Combined Arms Detachment:

HQ:
Command Squad: Regimental Standard.

Priest: Autogun
Priest: Autogun
Priest: Autogun
Commissar: Boltgun
Commissar: Boltgun
Commissar: Boltgun

Platoon 1:
PCS: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
30x Conscripts.

Platoon 1:
PCS: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
30x Conscripts.

Platoon 1:
PCS: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
Infantry Squad: No Upgrades.
30x Conscripts.

Emperors Fist Armoured Company Formation

Tank Commander in a Leman Russ Vanquisher with Hull Lascannon
Bodyguard Tank: Leman Russ Vanquisher with Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Vanquisher with Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Exterminator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Leman Russ Exterminator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Techpriest.

Basic premise is the 5 out of 6 blobs advance in front of the tanks, providing lots of cover, speed bumps and anti infantry shooting. Tanks provide all the heavy lifting and target big things, tear open transports and present a big target.
Command squads stick close behind the tanks to get cover and stay out of line of sight and issue orders, mostly use "forwards for the emperor" to make sure I am consistently taking ground or first rank fire when things get up close.
Last blobs acts as a reserve and also spreads out as much as possible in the back field to protect from deep strikers.

I cannot fathom what the commissars are there for.

 Jancoran wrote:
I cannot fathom what the commissars are there for.

I would have to guess that they are there for either the conscripts or the guardsmen blobs.

I'd hazard that the priest go with the Conscripts and the Commissars with the line squads...

Commissars can go in blobs where you'd like the option to go to ground, and they must never ever be stuck in a blob where you hide a Primaris Psyker.

Priests are for blobs that contain your Psyker(s) and/or blobs that you are deliberately trying to move forwards to assault with, whether for tarpitting or for actually trying to inflict damage (his Hatred from Zealot affects the entire unit when they charge in).

the commissars seem redundant. Goint to ground isnt really necessary unless you lack the Psykers. But that begs the question: why not just use Psykers. they are better in most every way that matters, as far as i can tell, when coupled with the Priests.

In all honesty, going back a bit into this thread.

FW is good for three things.

Vanquishers with beast hunter shells and co-axils. Effectively twin linked and having two of them will make Tau and Eldar MC's have a bad time. The main drawback is point cost.

Salamanders..... basically better versions of scout sentinels with more firepower and armour of armoured sentinels. Having three of those flanking will ruin anyones day and cause a big distraction. Add stubbers if you have the spare points and light/medium infantry will have a bad time. However not being walkers and open topped, they will suffer in CC compared to sentinels.

Finally and most importantly.... heavy artillery carriages. Get the earthshaker versions which are cheaper and tougher than basilisks with the possibility for order and psychic power shenanigans.

Downside? Heavy Artillery Carriages cost a lot of cash.... and salamanders are discontinued. Good news though is the alternative vanquishers with coaxil can still be brought via FW and the turrets will even fit the old normal russes without any modifications.

On the bonus one basilisk kit can build both one salamander (with a heavy weapon team) and one artillery carriage if you are willing to craft a bit.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
I personally like to bring out Pasknisher with lascannon and multimeltas for his raw damage output against anything within 24". Though very points inefficient, I tend to give him camo netting and stick Bullgryns in front of him so he can have a 3+ cover save for the turn or two he isn't in range. The ability to absorb damage from very high S guns and come out unscathed is worth the points IMO, but YMMV. It's basically my version of a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX.

It's a common combo to equip pask like that, but in all honesty you're mixing long and short range AT for a hell of a lot of points. I've personally never seen a multimelta on a russ kill anything worthwhile. Although camo netting and bullgryns maybe something I may have to try though, always wanted to include ogryns or bullgryns but never seen something to persuade me.

Personally I much prefer using the FW commander or commissar in a Vanquisher. Weirdly enough the Lascannon and Vanquisher cannon make it decent at AT, but beast hunter shells with sponson heavy bolters make it decent at killing troops. So makes a general all rounder that does fairly well. Tad expensive to have two though.

I'd think the multimeltas synergize well with the 24" punisher cannon range, and the lascannon is the only thing not like the others. In my last game against Space Marines, a Primaris Psyker got the Ignores Cover power and I spammed it on Pasknisher till he Peril'ed twice and died. Fortunately he didn't have melta pods, but I had my 40 man blob bubble wrapping just in case. His strongest/largest unit that got within 24" of my warlord would be removed from the table, every turn. Some deepstriking termies + chapter master that cleared out a ruin on the previous turn? Gone without a trace. A Dreadnought also retreating to a ruin? Easy peasy. The only thing that survived was Calgar and a single marine from a unit where Calgar tanked 3 non-ID wounds and I couldn't see the last guy around a corner.

His missiles and lascannon a in his devestator squad had a hard time getting through my armor, but I made sure Pask's buddy was between himself and the AT weaponry. As I didn't have Bullgryns that game, the buddy tank eventually went down and Pask ended up taking a single glance, but the side tank was 3 ablative hull points anyways. I learned the side tank is good at... tanking, for Pask.

The Bullgryns are really not that bad, because most shots that can even threaten AV13 or 14 will be ignored by 3+ cover in the open, or the opponent has to use medium S weapons against 9 T5 3+ wounds that are not reducing your own firepower at all.

You can't cast perfect timing on a vehicle.

Ah, you're right, it's the Psyker's own unit, not anyone else in a range. Looks like I messed that up, but I'll make sure to avoid that in the future. Although it makes that power significantly less useful as orders already work on infantry.

It is useful if you use blob infantry. But it's another small reason that vehicles lose out in 7th.