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Made in gb
Evasive Eshin Assassin






preston

 oldzoggy wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've tried to find it on the GW website, but it's saying sold out - is that permanent?


The box might be but no sane company would keep an entire game OOP if they clearly have ways to produce it and make money from it. My guess is that it is just a supply issue cover up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 master of ordinance wrote:
Has anyone seen the IG rules? I have my bods ready but I need to see them first.


yes I have. They are quite simple, but I might have remembered some wrong.
All point costs are the same as the ones on the genestealer online lists for troopers, leaders heavies (70 not 10 10 was a misprint) and juvs, but theiir stats are worse.

Leader regular vet stats has voice of command gives re roll 1's to hit within 12".
tooper regular vet stats
juv regular guardsmen stats
Guards can take up to 3 of these heavy *vet stats ? not sure if vet of guard stats ) these are the only ones who can take special weapons
Max squad size was 10 perhaps 12

weapon options.

Special weapons: grenade launcher krak, frak or both, flamer, plasmagun. No acces to heavy stubbers like the genestealers have
basic, lasgun option to give them hot shot also others forgot those since they are kinda inferior might be auto gun and shotgun
pistols: plasma, las, bolt
close comabat weapons and power or chain sword. No heavy close combat stuff
all the guard armour is available

Other options I remember extra hand weapons, cammo gear ( - 4 shooting distance for those shooting at you ), hooks for safely jumping of buildings, red dot laser (+1 hit), telescopic sight ( extra range), photo vision (-1 cover), and some grenades not sure what ones




Well, that is a pity, I wanted to use a Heavy Stubber.
Any chance of getting the army list for them?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/581001.page#6570095don't click this link...
8th of the Keepers of the PDF of that RPG which shall not be named. Look not into that which defies decency.
 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider






One of my friends is picking up the boxed set, so I'll probably give it a whirl eventually (have all the models).

The Eldar list is pretty anemic. It also has some errors (the Avenger shuriken catapult is 5 points more for 2" of range...but loses its +1 modifier at short range, making it essentially worse, etc.). They also have the stupid BS4/WS4 guardian nonsense which makes the gap almost non-existent between them and Dire Avengers, etc.

It'd be exceptionally easy to whip up an entire codex worth of options for any of the armies on that PDF though, so the sky's the limit, really. I'm not sure how I feel about the longevity of the game - and I think the elevated combat abilities/weapons will create a markedly different game environment (I suspect you could do an entire 15-cache "campaign" over a weekend, etc.).

Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.
   
Made in gb
Evasive Eshin Assassin






preston

 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


So, we will never see them then as GW made this a limited run thing.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/581001.page#6570095don't click this link...
8th of the Keepers of the PDF of that RPG which shall not be named. Look not into that which defies decency.
 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 master of ordinance wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


So, we will never see them then as GW made this a limited run thing.

I would suggest paying attention to the Community page. Atia made a comment today that it seems like we'll be seeing more but keep an eye out.
   
Made in gb
Evasive Eshin Assassin






preston

 Kanluwen wrote:
 master of ordinance wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


So, we will never see them then as GW made this a limited run thing.

I would suggest paying attention to the Community page. Atia made a comment today that it seems like we'll be seeing more but keep an eye out.

This requires me to have faith in GW

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/581001.page#6570095don't click this link...
8th of the Keepers of the PDF of that RPG which shall not be named. Look not into that which defies decency.
 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Whatever. Complain all you want, I guess.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Elbows wrote:

Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.


Jup this game appears to be more fun if you play it with the lower power gangs such as guards if you ask me. But this might just be my personal preference, and it doesn't really mater since GW gives us the option to start with them if we want to : )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 master of ordinance wrote:

This requires me to have faith in GW


lol do you really think that they would pass on a good chance to make money by investing in a proven popular product.
You can count on those rules to be released sometime in the near future, but you might have to buy the book ; )

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/03 01:04:40


Armies  
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

 Elbows wrote:
Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.

Necromunda gangs were organic to their "environment." The entire game was build around advancing the gangs from pups to Top Dogs. Actual fighting was something done between licking wounds, working territories, advancing stats and skills, and buying goodies. Lot's of lifestyle stuff between games. Some loved it. Others, not so much.

SW:A is focused on a kill team. A military or quasi-military unit in battle.

How that plays out, I don't know. I will say one thing for it. I can make a Genestealer Cult kill team within minutes. With a rule book and six pages of team info. And, I would know what I have and how to use it. I think it would take me a lot longer to make a Genestealer Cult Army with the codex, data faxes, rule book, and psychic cards and Formations, etc. The only time I tried (using the GSC Deathwatch: Overkill formation), it took 30 minutes for three of us to figure out how to add another 100 pts. to the formation (ended up needing the AM codex). C'mon, Man!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/03 17:31:15


 
   
Made in us
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian





Sioux Falls, SD

 Kanluwen wrote:
Whatever. Complain all you want, I guess.
Knowing the posting patterns of the particular nmposter, they will. About everything.

At this point, I am considering selling off the book for half the price of the boxed set. But I really want to make small kill teams out of my Skitarii and Space Marines. Have we seen anything about the non-Codex Space Marines?

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Inquisitorial Scourge of Heretics







I've been trying to write up a project not unlike Shadow Wars (though more based on Mordheim than Necromunda, so simpler ranged stats, hero/trooper divide, non-random skills, etc.), and to my mind the basic issue is that GW is trying to stick too closely to normal 40k in models/stats/etc.

Starting with models that would be absurdly high-quality for Necromunda is sort of essential if you're going to allow basically anything non-human, but the beauty of using a smaller, more constrained system is that you can use more of the stat range since you aren't trying to simulate such a wide range of things. In 40k a 'human' or an 'Eldar' is always S/T3, and a 'Space Marine' or a 'Necron Warrior' is always S/T4, but that's because once you get to S/T5 that's a Daemon Prince, S/T6 is a Greater Daemon or an XV-10 suit, and S/T8 is pushing towards Gargantuan Creature territory. Without the really big things clogging up the top of the scale you can make different assumptions about the 'normal' range of stats, let more things have multiple wounds, let higher stats exist, etc.

That said it does open the simple/straightforward doors to the RPG-campaign small-unit mechanism very quickly and with extra detail on top of what KT and HoR would offer, and less bookkeeping than my approach, so I'm not going to casually dismiss it without a chance to play it first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
...Have we seen anything about the non-Codex Space Marines?


Don't they just have variant skill list distribution?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/03 15:31:38


Victoria est autem vita.

Project Blog up at http://knightofthegrey.wordpress.com/
(Meridian status: in progress) 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Cautiously optimistic



The problem for me is still that, at the end of the day bodies with a decent ranged gun seems to be the way to go, it's more detailed than kill team but shooting still seems to come before combat in relevance. There's a lot of weaponry that is -2 or -3 to armour, so much that elite lists don't benefit too much from their armour IMO, just their choice of weaponry. Chaos space marines will likely see everyone going tzeentch for the 5+ inv, The other issue for me is there isn't a tonne of incentive's for unique builds. Some lists feel more finished or well rounded than others. Even tau seemed sorta short on wargear. The movement stuff from the sounds of it isn't really complete (as in vertical movement). I like the idea of campaign but randomizing mission seems kinda lame. Even subplots can't really save a terrible mission. If they actually support it and tweak factions it might enjoyable.

 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider






 Gobbla wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.

Necromunda gangs were organic to their "environment." The entire game was build around advancing the gangs from pups to Top Dogs. Actual fighting was something done between licking wounds, working territories, advancing stats and skills, and buying goodies. Lot's of lifestyle stuff between games. Some loved it. Others, not so much.

SW:A is focused on a kill team. A military or quasi-military unit in battle.

How that plays out, I don't know. I will say one thing for it. I can make a Genestealer Cult kill team within minutes. With a rule book and six pages of team info. And, I would know what I have and how to use it. I think it would take me a lot longer to make a Genestealer Cult Army with the codex, data faxes, rule book, and psychic cards and Formations, etc. The only time I tried (using the GSC Deathwatch: Overkill formation), it took 30 minutes for three of us to figure out how to add another 100 pts. to the formation (ended up needing the AM codex). C'mon, Man!


Yep, precisely my point. The aim of the game is quite different - despite rules being shared between the two. I think as long as you don't expect it to be Necromunda, you'll enjoy it. It's definitely going to be hugely different with 40K models/Kill teams involved. For good or for worse? Who knows. I think it's a brilliant starter product. I have some issues with some design decisions but I think GW is being careful here - not make the intro game so good that no one ever wants to go into 40K. That can be a double edged sword. There were loads of people back in the day who played Warhammer Quest or Necromunda, or Mordheim...and didn't play any of the "army" games.

With a really good skirmish game...I've little to no interest in army games. I enjoy the occasional WW2 game or 40K game...but really you can get heavily into/enjoying a skirmish game, to the exclusion of everything else. GW needs to avoid that somehow. Perhaps they hope that people who don't collect armies will at least collect 4-5-6 killteams (and spend around the same cash - or buy terrain, etc.). Much as you see a lot of people who went to Kill team games or Combat Patrol games, I think this kind of game scale suits a LOT of players far more than a 4 hour grind of 40K as it is now. You could see a whole load of people ditching 40K and concentrating on SWA if it's supported (and available...).
   
Made in us
Renegade Kan Killin Orks




I played half a dozen games during my normal game time on Sunday, and I have to say I'm incredibly impressed.

We used the quick-reference sheets, leaks and the new PDF as well as the old necromunda missions and skills (i'm told they're slightly modified, but they can't be by that much) and I got a chance to take GSC, Dark Eldar and Harlequins for a spin while my opponent played with Chaos Marines and IG Vets (though he bought them all carapace and hotshot packs and used Stormtrooper rules)

A couple tips: DO play with normal Necromunda levels of terrain. The game turns into an incredibly boring shoot-fest if you don't have decent amounts of terrain to use the Overwatch/Hide mechanic, which we learned when we played GSC vs IG and just had a normal 40k level of terrain scattered around.

That said, melee is definitely not unviable. by the last couple games, after I'd had a chance to get used to how melee armies worked I was able to really go to town with Harlequins and Dark Eldar. In particular I adore how Wyches work in this system, they are night and day from how they feel in 40k - deadly and relatively numerous and packing a huge variety of crazy weaponry. For reference, a basic wych with a pistol added on costs only 5 points more than a GSC neophyte with a lasgun. Melee power being more reliably impacted by Weapon Skill than attacks, and charge range being a set 12" move made a huge difference in the relative power of wyches. And easy access to weapons that boost my strength? Actual armor piercing options? Oh mama. The wyches totally tore the Tempestus apart and fought an incredibly close game with the Chaos Marines, winning by basically hiding from the marines and tearing up the cultists until they failed bottle.

   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge





Boulder, Colorado

I played it and I really didn't like it. It felt clunky and ridiculous, might have been my opponent though. Basically my 5 chaos space marines were constantly pinned, and when they weren't pinned they were trying to contribute but failing as whenever they exposed themselves to shoot they would do nothing and then fall to the ground, either pinned or dead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/03 21:31:04


   
Made in ca
Calculating Commissar





Krieg! What a hole...

Well its like 40k, if you put terrain all over the place, you favor melee army, if you don't, you favor ranged armies. You have to find a balance.

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
7th ED Shooting is fine!
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian





Sioux Falls, SD

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
...Have we seen anything about the non-Codex Space Marines?


Don't they just have variant skill list distribution?
Maybe? I haven't seen any leaks for SM. I have kits from basically every SM group (BA, DW, SW, C:SM, GK). Being able to use them all would be really fun for me.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Bobthehero wrote:
Well its like 40k, if you put terrain all over the place, you favor melee army, if you don't, you favor ranged armies. You have to find a balance.


Its not as simple as that. M values and I values also impact the effect of terrain a lot. Just spamming normal 40k ruins will not give you a fun game, due to the heavy cost of continuously having to move up and down.

Armies  
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





 Bobthehero wrote:
Well its like 40k, if you put terrain all over the place, you favor melee army, if you don't, you favor ranged armies. You have to find a balance.


Not really, you need ladders to climb up anything so you just overwatch a guy pointing at the ladder and the combat monsters like harlequins get knocked down before you rush him with plebs and do some Scottish karate.

And really if you're playing a dink who tries to game the system you just auto bottle out, take your cache and tell him to sod off. Our store came off with the simple system of DBAF. Don't be a and its worked great.
   
Made in ch
Fresh-Faced New User



Zürich

Ignore This:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 15:22:57


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Toronto

Also, remember that hiding is a thing. Creep forward and hide. Helps you not get shot.

   
Made in us
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought






I was planning to use this as an excuse to start a small tzeench or nurgle demon army.... but they apparently are not there. might get some admech instead but a bit disappointed at lack of chaos

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

I have a few major issues



1. The bottle test seems to pretty much ensure that games that are going well for you will be often cut short by your opponent bottling or choosing to fail.



2. Without much incentive to spread out and take ground, the psychology stuff doesn't work too well. So with few focal points, the need to spread out is sorta muted. The missions aren't great.



3. Terrain rules for verticality, c'mon guys.


The reality is, the game would actually work better in with corridor fighting ala zone mortalis. Playing it on old necormunda terrain actually made it worse, it was hard to check los and overwatch. So in theory if I'm enjoying myself and working towards my ultimate tactical takedown of my opponents kill team it can all be cut short, which honestly just makes me not want to play. Conversely the incentive to actually play or finish any battle is gone, if it's my interest to flee. At the end of the day, both players are playing from a gods eye view of the battlefield, so the psychology stuff like hiding only works so so.


I hated bottling in kill team, because more often than not I'd win games I should have lost and lost games I should have won.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/04 19:11:55


 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






Just a question from someone who's waiting on their copy of the rule book: how do orks play? Are they decent at melee? Can they spam hordes? Do their guns run out of ammo constantly?

I overuse ellipses constantly in my posts. Apologies in advance, unless you already read my post. In that case regular apologies instead.
 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider






Just from watching the few battle reports up, Orks benefit from numbers (able to take up to 20 models I believe) and are affected by ammo just like anyone else --- this is more dependent on the weapon itself than the race; everyone stands the same chance to roll a natural '6' when rolling to hit).

Melee, not so sure about...but more bodies is more bodies.
   
Made in kr
Regular Dakkanaut




 Roknar wrote:
What do I think? I think GW can go feth themselves for making it a limited release...... seriously. I was looking forward to preordering it, aaaaaand it's gone -_-

*rant over*


It's like they're allergic to money or something...
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





West Sussex, UK

 Crablezworth wrote:
I have a few major issues



1. The bottle test seems to pretty much ensure that games that are going well for you will be often cut short by your opponent bottling or choosing to fail.






I hated bottling in kill team, because more often than not I'd win games I should have lost and lost games I should have won.


I think the bottling is fine, it's there so you can bug out if you start taking a pounding. It's not fun in a campaign to be crippled from one bad game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 21:30:57


Illeix wrote:The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer sheilds or sparkle lasers.


DT:90-S+++G+++MB--I--Pw40k02++D++A+++/WD301R++(T)DM+
 
   
Made in au
Tough Tyrant Guard




 Crablezworth wrote:
I have a few major issues



1. The bottle test seems to pretty much ensure that games that are going well for you will be often cut short by your opponent bottling or choosing to fail.



2. Without much incentive to spread out and take ground, the psychology stuff doesn't work too well. So with few focal points, the need to spread out is sorta muted. The missions aren't great.



3. Terrain rules for verticality, c'mon guys.



You obviously never played Necromunda.

But there is nothing stopping you setting up a zone mortis Style table and playing a game on this on there... (I am actually thinking of doing some games this way)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am so excite..

Have so many options to pick from..

Actually Tempted to do a Chaos Space marine list, but use the Deathwatch minis from Overkill (just wont use and cultists)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/05 00:33:26


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





Bottling is there for people in campaigns. I'm on game 10 now and if you couldn't choose to bottle I would have had an entire team rolling on the serious injuries table.

Also sometimes your limping for a game after and you just need the 200pts to get yourself back up and running, so playing careful is required.

The game is meant for campaign play and I'm really enjoying it. You just have to get used to the idea of not throwing models to die and getting used to good models dying and you needing a few games to get them back.
   
Made in au
Tough Tyrant Guard




One thing I did notice off about the CSM is some of their wargear options.. e.g.

Ammunition
Inferno bolts*..........................................................25 points
* Can be purchased for bolt pistols or boltguns only. Fighters
with the Mark of Tzeentch only.

The only models that can get marks are Specialists.. seems a bit pricey for a duder you are already using Cache for
   
 
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