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A Town Called Malus wrote: t. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy.
Isnt that something from the "Legends" section of Force Canon? As far as I know they havent explained much about it lately, or what they have shown can be construed as propaganda from one group of Religious Fanatics.
A Town Called Malus wrote: t. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy.
Isnt that something from the "Legends" section of Force Canon? As far as I know they havent explained much about it lately, or what they have shown can be construed as propaganda from one group of Religious Fanatics.
Well, the first instance of there being a "disturbance in the force" shown in the films is when an entire planet was destroyed. So that would certainly suggest that the Force is disturbed by huge losses of life, if not outright stating that it is unbalanced by it. And again, what is a disturbance but a move away from equilibrium?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/15 18:20:36
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
A Town Called Malus wrote: t. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy.
Isnt that something from the "Legends" section of Force Canon? As far as I know they havent explained much about it lately, or what they have shown can be construed as propaganda from one group of Religious Fanatics.
Well, the first instance of there being a "disturbance in the force" shown in the films is when an entire planet was destroyed. So that would certainly suggest that the Force is disturbed by huge losses of life, if not outright stating that it is unbalanced by it. And again, what is a disturbance but a move away from equilibrium?
Nothing about that implies that balance is maintained solely through peace. Normal battles happen and there's not "a disturbance in the force." What it shows is that rather than the usual eb and flow of life and death, or waves on a lake. It was one sudden and massive blow that would have had an effect on both sides of the force. Like throwing a large rock into that same lake.
A Town Called Malus wrote: t. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy.
Isnt that something from the "Legends" section of Force Canon? As far as I know they havent explained much about it lately, or what they have shown can be construed as propaganda from one group of Religious Fanatics.
Well, the first instance of there being a "disturbance in the force" shown in the films is when an entire planet was destroyed. So that would certainly suggest that the Force is disturbed by huge losses of life, if not outright stating that it is unbalanced by it. And again, what is a disturbance but a move away from equilibrium?
I always thought of that as a 'disturbance' in the sense that a movement is a disturbance; the destruction of Alderaan was the equivalent of throwing a very large rock into a still pond, rather than the Force being 'disturbed' in the sense that a person is disturbed.
If this is two hours of Luke hunting down the Knights of Ren, I'll be happy.
EDIT: Ninja'd with the exact same analogy. Nice
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 18:32:48
A Town Called Malus wrote: t. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy.
Isnt that something from the "Legends" section of Force Canon? As far as I know they havent explained much about it lately, or what they have shown can be construed as propaganda from one group of Religious Fanatics.
Well, the first instance of there being a "disturbance in the force" shown in the films is when an entire planet was destroyed. So that would certainly suggest that the Force is disturbed by huge losses of life, if not outright stating that it is unbalanced by it. And again, what is a disturbance but a move away from equilibrium?
Nothing about that implies that balance is maintained solely through peace. Normal battles happen and there's not "a disturbance in the force." What it shows is that rather than the usual eb and flow of life and death, or waves on a lake. It was one sudden and massive blow that would have had an effect on both sides of the force. Like throwing a large rock into that same lake.
Normal battles see death in the thousands. Not billions (of just humans) in an instant. The loss of a largely populated planet is something of an entirely different scale from a space battle that see's 10-20 thousand die over a few hours.
A Town Called Malus wrote: t. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy.
Isnt that something from the "Legends" section of Force Canon? As far as I know they havent explained much about it lately, or what they have shown can be construed as propaganda from one group of Religious Fanatics.
Well, the first instance of there being a "disturbance in the force" shown in the films is when an entire planet was destroyed. So that would certainly suggest that the Force is disturbed by huge losses of life, if not outright stating that it is unbalanced by it. And again, what is a disturbance but a move away from equilibrium?
Nothing about that implies that balance is maintained solely through peace. Normal battles happen and there's not "a disturbance in the force." What it shows is that rather than the usual eb and flow of life and death, or waves on a lake. It was one sudden and massive blow that would have had an effect on both sides of the force. Like throwing a large rock into that same lake.
Normal battles see death in the thousands. Not billions (of just humans) in an instant. The loss of a largely populated planet is something of an entirely different scale from a space battle that see's 10-20 thousand die over a few hours.
The quickness of it shouldn't matter though in the grand scheme of how the force operates according to Malus. It should just affect it, its a negative, violent and 'evil' action and not a peaceful one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 18:41:09
Gamgee wrote: Ah I thought you were talking specifically of Kreia's plan.
Kreia ?
She's a character from Knights of the Old Republic 2, who was trying to kill the Force as she felt it manipulated living things.
the force does manipulate things and tries to maintain a balance, it knew with Luke training a new generation of Jedi there would be an imbalance so it corrected it, then when Luke went into solitude and left only Kylo a very untrained Sith it created another imbalance so the force introduced Rey. the Force is a very manipulative thing. and as long as a Sith or a Jedi exist so will the other.
Citation needed. There is nothing to suggest that the force is any more manipulative than any form of natural variance. All living things interact with and contribute to the Force. That some people are more sensitive to it is no more the Force actively manipulating people than genetics actively manipulating us by making some people more intelligent. Again, balance in the force is maintained through the peaceful continuation of life in the galaxy. This is something the Jedi strive for and the Sith actively act to disrupt.
As long as living things exist, there will be the Force and as long as there is the Force there will be those who are more sensitive to it and learn to use it.
actually large losses of life have not been because of the Sith, it was Gran Moff Tarkin who blew up the planet, hell think he was higher on the food chain then Vader was.
the problem is you keep equating the force to good, the force is neither good nor evil, it just is, you take a cup of water, is that water good or evil? and yet water is in all of us, the water or in this case the force try to maintain balance, if you tip the cup one way, water spills, if you tip the cup another way, it spills, but if the cup is perfectly balanced none of it is lost., the force does not care about good or evil, it just concerns itself with existing or being with no change, when there is change of tipping one way or the other it will balance itself, thereby the only way for there too be true balance in the force is to have no Sith or Jedi. since both sides create an imbalance in the force.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Maybe Rey will be the first Grey Jedi, like the Imperial Knights from the Legacy era comics. That group was awesome.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
actually large losses of life have not been because of the Sith, it was Gran Moff Tarkin who blew up the planet, hell think he was higher on the food chain then Vader was.
the problem is you keep equating the force to good, the force is neither good nor evil, it just is, you take a cup of water, is that water good or evil? and yet water is in all of us, the water or in this case the force try to maintain balance, if you tip the cup one way, water spills, if you tip the cup another way, it spills, but if the cup is perfectly balanced none of it is lost., the force does not care about good or evil, it just concerns itself with existing or being with no change, when there is change of tipping one way or the other it will balance itself, thereby the only way for there too be true balance in the force is to have no Sith or Jedi. since both sides create an imbalance in the force.
The Emperor ordered the Death Star built and he also ordered a test of its capabilities. The Sith are responsible for the creation and use of the Death Star.
I'm not equating the Force to good, I am equating the Force to the natural equilibrium of life and death in the Galaxy, which the Sith inevitably disrupt in order to gain power. You are the one equating something to good, and that is the Jedi. You put the Jedi and Sith on opposite sides of a seesaw, where the actual positioning, based on their teachings and usage of the Force, would have the Sith on one end of the seesaw and the Jedi clustered mostly around the middle, above the pivot, as I said earlier.
The Jedi strive to preserve balance in the Force by attempting to curb violent tendencies and prevent the reckless use of the Force which are trademarks of the Sith. A Sith attempts to harness the Force within themselves, a Jedi lets it flow and merely directs it when needed. That is why the way of the Sith is the quicker route to power. An analogy is this: the Sith method is akin to using a sledgehammer whilst the Jedi is using a rapier, it takes a lot more training to use the rapier effectively than it does the sledgehammer as you cannot rely on the application of brute force but are rather using your momentum and the momentum of your opponent to make your attacks.
Jedi do not unbalance the Force as they do not prevent the natural flow of the Force, which the Sith do.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
By having Jedi, you are creating a vacuum for something to oppose them. The teachings of the Jedi, the restrictions, more accurately, are an inherent part of what drives Anakin to the dark side (he constantly wrestles with what he's supposed to do as a Jedi and what his nature drives him to do, and that instability is ultimately Palpatine's 'in.')
I think what we'll see is Luke's understanding that the Force is ultimately a tool, and it is the wielder's intent that matters, and that by being so rigid in doctrine the Jedi ultimately caused themselves issues by trying to fit the various shaped pegs of force users into the same Jedi shaped hole.
Plus, let's not pretend that the Jedi didn't propagate some pretty bad outcomes themselves, irrespective of their intentions, by trying to manipulate everything. Yoda even knew Anakin would fall in advance.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
actually large losses of life have not been because of the Sith, it was Gran Moff Tarkin who blew up the planet, hell think he was higher on the food chain then Vader was.
the problem is you keep equating the force to good, the force is neither good nor evil, it just is, you take a cup of water, is that water good or evil? and yet water is in all of us, the water or in this case the force try to maintain balance, if you tip the cup one way, water spills, if you tip the cup another way, it spills, but if the cup is perfectly balanced none of it is lost., the force does not care about good or evil, it just concerns itself with existing or being with no change, when there is change of tipping one way or the other it will balance itself, thereby the only way for there too be true balance in the force is to have no Sith or Jedi. since both sides create an imbalance in the force.
The Emperor ordered the Death Star built and he also ordered a test of its capabilities. The Sith are responsible for the creation and use of the Death Star.
I'm not equating the Force to good, I am equating the Force to the natural equilibrium of life and death in the Galaxy, which the Sith inevitably disrupt in order to gain power. You are the one equating something to good, and that is the Jedi. You put the Jedi and Sith on opposite sides of a seesaw, where the actual positioning, based on their teachings and usage of the Force, would have the Sith on one end of the seesaw and the Jedi clustered mostly around the middle, above the pivot, as I said earlier.
The Jedi strive to preserve balance in the Force by attempting to curb violent tendencies and prevent the reckless use of the Force which are trademarks of the Sith. A Sith attempts to harness the Force within themselves, a Jedi lets it flow and merely directs it when needed. That is why the way of the Sith is the quicker route to power. An analogy is this: the Sith method is akin to using a sledgehammer whilst the Jedi is using a rapier, it takes a lot more training to use the rapier effectively than it does the sledgehammer as you cannot rely on the application of brute force but are rather using your momentum and the momentum of your opponent to make your attacks.
Jedi do not unbalance the Force as they do not prevent the natural flow of the Force, which the Sith do.
Jedi use the force, that impedes it, the Sith use the force, that impedes it, the force does not care about life, it is a force that is all a force that wishes to go undirected, unimpeded, un filtered and so forth, and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?, consider the force a power cable, if the Sith use it, it drains, if the Jedi uses it it drains, it matters not who uses it or how it drains it., as to the Sith they can only exist with the Jedi, just like the Jedi can only exist with the Sith, they cannot exist without each other, just like night cannot exist without day and day cannot exist without night.
also it might help if you remember the original stories that the entire Star Wars stories were derived from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/16 03:26:01
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father. He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out. Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training). During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/16 05:19:33
Anyone else think that its Benicio del Toro's voice ( who is cast as a villian, from what I've read) at the end of the trailer, calling for the Jedi to end and not Lukes voice?
Pretty damn deceptive, if so!
Someone agrees!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/16 06:40:48
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father.
He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out.
Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training).
During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
and that is my point, if he was properly trained sith then he should have had no issue with any of them, but it appears his only force training consisted of what Luke gave him, which means Snoke is not a Force User.
also the killing of his father was like the lifting of a weight from him. not emotionally scarring, also where does it showing her using a staff in her formative years? but like I said if you watched his light sabre use before he was injured you would have noticed he sucked. he was like Luke on the Millenium Falcon defending against the laser orb. the only thing he had going for him was stopping a bolt in mid air, or stopping people, it is like he can freeze people and/or things and objects but that is not from training, but use, he is a one trick pony who lacks in proper training.
nels1031 wrote: Anyone else think that its Benicio del Toro's voice ( who is cast as a villian, from what I've read) at the end of the trailer, calling for the Jedi to end and not Lukes voice?
Pretty damn deceptive, if so!
Someone agrees!
too much unknown to give a correlative response, it could be Luke under different circumstances or not, or the first voice could not be Luke, who knows.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/16 14:29:53
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
I don't think he was meant to be a fully trained Sith.
It felt like Snoke tries to keep Kylo trained enough to do what he needs him to to, but not trained enough to participate in the Sith "Time to Kill Master" routine.
Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father.
He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out.
Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training).
During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
Spot on assessment. People seem to gloss over the fact that he'd just been shot by a weapon that had previously been shown (on numerous occasions) to pick people up, and throw them.
I've seen a lot of supposition on Kylo Ren, and I've gotta wonder what it is that drives him to do what he's done.
Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, while kind of a weak emphasis, at least there was some explanation to it. Kylo Ren, his adoration of Anakin being obvious, he should know the trap he fell into, and how he sought redemption at the end. With the influences he had on his life, from his mother, father, uncle's (Luke, and Chewbacca), it's incredibly unlikely he went "bad" in his youth. So one has to wonder, what happened? He looks clearly conflicted by what he's doing.
It makes me think that maybe they're sort of doing the Jacen Solo story with him. He didn't turn because he's evil, so to speak. He's doing it for what he thinks is the greater good. Hatred and anger don't necessarily drive him. We saw plenty of times that when the anger over takes him, he tends to take it out on the inanimate surroundings, not so much on people, like Vader would do (man would force choke anyone who'd annoy him).
I'm really curious to see how they explain him as the story continues to unfold.
Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father.
He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out.
Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training).
During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
Spot on assessment. People seem to gloss over the fact that he'd just been shot by a weapon that had previously been shown (on numerous occasions) to pick people up, and throw them.
I've seen a lot of supposition on Kylo Ren, and I've gotta wonder what it is that drives him to do what he's done.
Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, while kind of a weak emphasis, at least there was some explanation to it. Kylo Ren, his adoration of Anakin being obvious, he should know the trap he fell into, and how he sought redemption at the end. With the influences he had on his life, from his mother, father, uncle's (Luke, and Chewbacca), it's incredibly unlikely he went "bad" in his youth. So one has to wonder, what happened? He looks clearly conflicted by what he's doing.
It makes me think that maybe they're sort of doing the Jacen Solo story with him. He didn't turn because he's evil, so to speak. He's doing it for what he thinks is the greater good. Hatred and anger don't necessarily drive him. We saw plenty of times that when the anger over takes him, he tends to take it out on the inanimate surroundings, not so much on people, like Vader would do (man would force choke anyone who'd annoy him).
I'm really curious to see how they explain him as the story continues to unfold.
not glossed over him getting shot, but me thinks he likes pain, remember how he kept hitting his side where he had been shot while fighting? its like he was trying to inflict pain on himself so as to feed on it, or have it energize him, furthermore if you had listened to Leia, she sent him to Luke to try to control him and train him since he was a troubled youth and was very bothered. furthermore we do not know if there are any other Solo kids in the movie universe since nothing was said about such.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
nels1031 wrote: Anyone else think that its Benicio del Toro's voice ( who is cast as a villian, from what I've read) at the end of the trailer, calling for the Jedi to end and not Lukes voice?
Pretty damn deceptive, if so!
Someone agrees!
Gosh I hope not, I was really looking forward to the "Gray Jedi", abolishing the Jedi Order angle and going back to the teachings of the ancient Je'daii, the precursor to the Jedi Order that focused on balancing the Light and the Dark rather than devoting oneself entirely to one or the other...both the Jedi and the Sith are extremists in their own ways. Bringing peace to the Galaxy by abolishing both Orders and finally "bringing balance to the Force" would be a cool way to end the trilogy.
From the wiki:
Spoiler:
The Je'daii Order was an ancient organization unified by its belief and observance of the Force on the planet Tython, in the galaxy's Deep Core. Focusing on maintaining a balance in the Force, a state at which Tython was itself hospitable, the Je'daii saw the Force as three aspects of a whole; the Ashla (light), the Bogan (Dark), and the Bendu (balance). They saw this duality in the Force represented in the night sky of Tython in the form of two natural satellites; one bathed in light, the Ashla, another shrouded in darkness, the Bogan. In keeping with their view of balance, Je'daii who fell too far to either the light or dark were exiled to one of the moons to meditate until they returned to balance.
Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father.
He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out.
Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training).
During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
Spot on assessment. People seem to gloss over the fact that he'd just been shot by a weapon that had previously been shown (on numerous occasions) to pick people up, and throw them.
I've seen a lot of supposition on Kylo Ren, and I've gotta wonder what it is that drives him to do what he's done.
Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, while kind of a weak emphasis, at least there was some explanation to it. Kylo Ren, his adoration of Anakin being obvious, he should know the trap he fell into, and how he sought redemption at the end. With the influences he had on his life, from his mother, father, uncle's (Luke, and Chewbacca), it's incredibly unlikely he went "bad" in his youth. So one has to wonder, what happened? He looks clearly conflicted by what he's doing.
It makes me think that maybe they're sort of doing the Jacen Solo story with him. He didn't turn because he's evil, so to speak. He's doing it for what he thinks is the greater good. Hatred and anger don't necessarily drive him. We saw plenty of times that when the anger over takes him, he tends to take it out on the inanimate surroundings, not so much on people, like Vader would do (man would force choke anyone who'd annoy him).
I'm really curious to see how they explain him as the story continues to unfold.
not glossed over him getting shot, but me thinks he likes pain, remember how he kept hitting his side where he had been shot while fighting? its like he was trying to inflict pain on himself so as to feed on it, or have it energize him, furthermore if you had listened to Leia, she sent him to Luke to try to control him and train him since he was a troubled youth and was very bothered. furthermore we do not know if there are any other Solo kids in the movie universe since nothing was said about such.
As a part of my service, I'm sometimes called on to run for really long distances. My hip will tend to hurt after 4 miles or so. Don't ask my why I do it, but I'll hit it with my fist a few times. It's just kinda an automatic thing I do, gives me a bit of a psychological push to just keep on going. I always put my assumption down that he was doing the same thing.
Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father.
He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out.
Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training).
During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
Spot on assessment. People seem to gloss over the fact that he'd just been shot by a weapon that had previously been shown (on numerous occasions) to pick people up, and throw them.
I've seen a lot of supposition on Kylo Ren, and I've gotta wonder what it is that drives him to do what he's done.
Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, while kind of a weak emphasis, at least there was some explanation to it. Kylo Ren, his adoration of Anakin being obvious, he should know the trap he fell into, and how he sought redemption at the end. With the influences he had on his life, from his mother, father, uncle's (Luke, and Chewbacca), it's incredibly unlikely he went "bad" in his youth. So one has to wonder, what happened? He looks clearly conflicted by what he's doing.
It makes me think that maybe they're sort of doing the Jacen Solo story with him. He didn't turn because he's evil, so to speak. He's doing it for what he thinks is the greater good. Hatred and anger don't necessarily drive him. We saw plenty of times that when the anger over takes him, he tends to take it out on the inanimate surroundings, not so much on people, like Vader would do (man would force choke anyone who'd annoy him).
I'm really curious to see how they explain him as the story continues to unfold.
not glossed over him getting shot, but me thinks he likes pain, remember how he kept hitting his side where he had been shot while fighting? its like he was trying to inflict pain on himself so as to feed on it, or have it energize him, furthermore if you had listened to Leia, she sent him to Luke to try to control him and train him since he was a troubled youth and was very bothered. furthermore we do not know if there are any other Solo kids in the movie universe since nothing was said about such.
As a part of my service, I'm sometimes called on to run for really long distances. My hip will tend to hurt after 4 miles or so. Don't ask my why I do it, but I'll hit it with my fist a few times. It's just kinda an automatic thing I do, gives me a bit of a psychological push to just keep on going. I always put my assumption down that he was doing the same thing.
Some Sith draw power from the dark side through pain. Darth sion for instance. Which in a sense is what you were doing lol.
Given the Bendu is now fully canon thanks to Rebels, one wonders if Kanan and Ezra might move to become Bendu themselves - Ezra is already shown to have some aptitude for treading that line.
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Asterios wrote: and if the Sith is the quick way to power then how did Kylo Ren get his behind kicked by a complete novice with but a few seconds of mind training?
If you only watch that last fight then yeah, it appears that way. However:
He's an emotional wreck. He just murdered his father.
He's severely, possibly mortally wounded. He took a Bowcaster shot to the stomach, and is shown to be bleeding out.
Considering those, he'd also just beaten an ex-Stormtrooper, who they previously showed knowing how to fight with a lightsaber (which assumes he has some combat training with a blade as part of his training).
During that fight, he also took a shoulder wound.
Then, he didn't get his behind kicked. He controlled the entire fight. She was retreating the whole time - and she herself was shown to defend herself in close quarters with s staff on a hostile planet for her formative years, so she's not likely a 'complete novice'. She fought him back and wounded him again when she managed to focus herself and while he was trying to win her over rather than beat her.
So basically, by the time he fought Rey, he was severely wounded, wounded again, emotionally wrecked and very likely exhausted, and still controlled the fight. Then he allowed himself to get distracted and got a surprise attack back by a much more focused opponent while in a much, much worse physical and mental state.
And with all that. he was never shown before that to be a particularly good sword fighter. His displays of power - which included things that even Darth Vader wasn't shown doing like holding a blaster bolt mid flight from a sniper he didn't even know was there from behind and completely immobilising people - were entirely force based. That fight was all about the lightsabers.
Spot on assessment. People seem to gloss over the fact that he'd just been shot by a weapon that had previously been shown (on numerous occasions) to pick people up, and throw them.
I've seen a lot of supposition on Kylo Ren, and I've gotta wonder what it is that drives him to do what he's done.
Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, while kind of a weak emphasis, at least there was some explanation to it. Kylo Ren, his adoration of Anakin being obvious, he should know the trap he fell into, and how he sought redemption at the end. With the influences he had on his life, from his mother, father, uncle's (Luke, and Chewbacca), it's incredibly unlikely he went "bad" in his youth. So one has to wonder, what happened? He looks clearly conflicted by what he's doing.
It makes me think that maybe they're sort of doing the Jacen Solo story with him. He didn't turn because he's evil, so to speak. He's doing it for what he thinks is the greater good. Hatred and anger don't necessarily drive him. We saw plenty of times that when the anger over takes him, he tends to take it out on the inanimate surroundings, not so much on people, like Vader would do (man would force choke anyone who'd annoy him).
I'm really curious to see how they explain him as the story continues to unfold.
While I haven't read it, the Bloodline novel supposedly establishes that he didn't know Vader was his grandfather until his 20s, when Leia's parentage was outed. Also, Leia apparently sensed the darkness in him even when he was in the womb, and sent him off to Luke in an attempt to keep him from going Vader. He also apparently suffered from all kinds of abandonment issues.
We do seem to be missing the specific trigger that made him choose the dark side and turn murderous, though. Then again, the specifics of Anakin's fall didn't make much sense in ROTS. It's a mighty big leap from being an angry but loyal Jedi who wants to save the love of his life to coldly butchering younglings. There was about an entire film's worth of material needed there to smooth that over.
I don't know. R One showed us a Star Wars movie without the Jedi nonsense, and it was really, really good. I thought one of the many major weaknesses of the prequels was the focus on the jedi. if we get down to it, the Jedi didn't do much of consequence. Deathstars were wacked by normal people. Rebels were shot up by normal troopers and big ships.
My $.02 anyway.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Galef wrote: I am betting that Luke discovered some secret long buried by the Jedi. Maybe it is something that caused Kylo to turn and Luke to "give up". Or at least appear to give up.
Maybe he has been searching for other answers and will train Rey not as a Jedi, but as something new that balances the force instead of focusing on the Light side.
-
Could be Kylo is the first result of Luke trying to teach a balance....
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I don't think it will be any of that. Kylo will have just gone bad and now Luke a wussy boy about it all. Ren will be searching for them. I predict treachery kills Luke (because Ren would be pwoned by him) my Luke refused to wack his own nephew or something. Whatsherface will narrowly escape so she can kill her cousin in the next movie. Man these Skywalkers are bloody to their kin than Richard.
Meanwhile back at the hall of justice the Imperium...er First Order.. will be victoriously curb stomping the rebels. Anyone ever notice the rebels never have a fleet for bupkis? Its almost like this has been done before...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Meanwhile back at the hall of justice the Imperium...er First Order.. will be victoriously curb stomping the rebels. Anyone ever notice the rebels never have a fleet for bupkis? Its almost like this has been done before...
Rogue One neatly explained the lack of a fleet in A New Hope - they were mostly destroyed at Scarif getting the plans. Given how close it was to the start of A New Hope, which itself takes place over a very short time, they wouldn't have had time to repair what was left and accumulate more. By the time of Return of the Jedi, the Rebels once again had a rather large fleet which attacked the second Death Star head on.
Why they didn't have anything but X-Wings in The Force Awakens I don't know - especially with the implication that the New Republic was supplying them.
That was the Republic fleet though - smallish 'scale tipping' force, there to back up individual system fleets against an aggressor, rather than the sum total of the entire Republic's naval assets though.
The First Order has done a Palpatine and blown it through over confidence. They deployed then rapidly lost their biggest toy (on the assumption that's the only one), exposing themselves as the threat the Resistance always claimed they were. Which given Palpatine's reign is still well remembered, isn't such a smart thing to do when it's you vs everyone else.
In a way, they've just done exactly what Leia and Mon Mothma always dreamed - their actions could will bind and galvanise the other systems into The Republic for mutual protection.
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The Resistance was the New Republic's Flying Tigers, although without even that level of government support; as far as I can tell it was supported by personal donations from General Leia and her allies in the Republic government and industry.
Unfortunately, the closest analogy I can think of is Bin Laden funding Al Quaeda from his own fortune.
those shiny new T-70 X-Wings are actually Republic surplus - their front-line fighter is the T-80 model. Unfortunately, this is all in the supplemental material somewhere.
Frazzled wrote: I don't know. R One showed us a Star Wars movie without the Jedi nonsense, and it was really, really good. I thought one of the many major weaknesses of the prequels was the focus on the jedi. if we get down to it, the Jedi didn't do much of consequence. Deathstars were wacked by normal people. Rebels were shot up by normal troopers and big ships.
My $.02 anyway.
While I agree that the Jedi do not need to be central to a good Star Wars story, even Rogue One makes several references to them. At this point in time the Jedi as central to the Star Wars Galaxy, even if they have been relegated to legend.
Their is a lot of canon coming about regarding the Bendu lately. The Bendu being the predecessors to the Jedi and Sith could be a nice angle for a Saga film. Maybe Luke discovers this and will indeed attempt to teach Rey the balance, rather than focus on the Jedi's dogma of the Light side only.
