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Problem with assassin is the way that charging puts you at a disadvantage unless you destroy more than 50% of the enemy squad on the charge. I'd rather receive a charge or use them to try and snipe out a one or two wound hq or vehicle in late game. Reserve them for a QRF later. I like doing this because with that and gate of infinity i can 'deepstrike' 2 units late game to advantageous positions.

I used a Vindicare and Eversor against Nids recently. The Vindicare was mediocre at best (to be expected against nids).

The Eversor turned up turn 1 in a small gap and charged his Exorcrine then holding it up for three turns, along with his warriors and warrior prime. He took several Wounds of each unit before dying and doing more mortal Wounds to all three units, kilking his prime and finishing a warrior off. Well worth the points paid.

C.Straken wrote:
I used a Vindicare and Eversor against Nids recently. The Vindicare was mediocre at best (to be expected against nids).

The Eversor turned up turn 1 in a small gap and charged his Exorcrine then holding it up for three turns, along with his warriors and warrior prime. He took several Wounds of each unit before dying and doing more mortal Wounds to all three units, kilking his prime and finishing a warrior off. Well worth the points paid.

That seems to be the best use for an Eversor. Turn up, make a lot of trouble and then die. It is pretty good as he is the joint cheapest option.

 Trickstick wrote:

C.Straken wrote:
I used a Vindicare and Eversor against Nids recently. The Vindicare was mediocre at best (to be expected against nids).

The Eversor turned up turn 1 in a small gap and charged his Exorcrine then holding it up for three turns, along with his warriors and warrior prime. He took several Wounds of each unit before dying and doing more mortal Wounds to all three units, kilking his prime and finishing a warrior off. Well worth the points paid.

That seems to be the best use for an Eversor. Turn up, make a lot of trouble and then die. It is pretty good as he is the joint cheapest option.

Completely agree, either tie up a heavy Weapon squad, squishy chatacter, basically anything your opponent wants to be shooting and yoi don't want to be shot with. And when he dies, as long as he is combat he is still dangerous.

The Eversor turned up turn 1 in a small gap and charged his Exorcrine then holding it up for three turns,

Could the Exo not have retreated and something else then blow the Eversor away? Or counter charge into him?

 Ratius wrote:

The Eversor turned up turn 1 in a small gap and charged his Exorcrine then holding it up for three turns,

Could the Exo not have retreated and something else then blow the Eversor away? Or counter charge into him?

He considered it every time, but assumed as he couldn't shoot the turn he retreated and with his Prime and Warriors joining in along with its 3, 2D attacks he would go down pretty quick. Turns out he fluffed alot of Rolls and my 12CP came in plenty handy.

Sorry I meant another unit (not the Exo) shooting the Eversor. Like a big unit of termagants or the warriors with devourers or something?

He could, but he thought keeping the Exorcrine in combat would help out his warriors (with lash and sword) which he had kept back as counter Assault. I'm sure it wont happen next time, but even holding the Exorcrine for one turn was worth the points.

It honestly came down to underestimating the Eversors ability to survive in combat.

Plus I had slaughtered his two units of 20 Gaunts before the Tervigon could revive them. The only thing he had nearby that could have shot him was his Hive Guard unless he started turning around and breaking up his advance more than he already had due to bikes and Inceptors hitting one flank, the Eversor on the opposite and my main army in the middle.

Just out of interest, does anyone have any advice on when to use the power sword and when to use the neurogauntlet with the eversor? I'm guessing you use the gauntlet against high toughness or low save opponents but does anyone know the values where you would use the sword?

 Trickstick wrote:

Haveatya wrote:
Why? There are stories of sending 4 or more to assassinate specific targets, often they are mixed. I don't see any reason why two callidus or culexus or vindicares are sent somewhere. Eversor are a bit nuts so maybe not but in game they'd be terrifying.

Yeah but using more than one assassin at once is an incredibly rare event. There is a reason their special rule is "Independent Operative".

Very true, but a huge rift just opened up in the middle of the galaxy. The Officio Assassinorum felt it better to reassign their operatives in the field to my Imperial commander in the thick of it, than try and get them home quickly through dangerous warp storms.

I'd actually forgot I had three of the Assassins (never bought a Callidus) until raking through my old Blood Angels today. Had been planning on a Scout squad to pick off characters, and they might still be a good option, but I'll definitely be taking the Vindicare out for some trips too. "Targeted and firing"

Oh yeah, I'm all for just fluffing stuff until it works. My favourite go-to is "bureaucratic error". I just don't think I would field more than one, I like the idea of a unique assassin.

 Trickstick wrote:
Just out of interest, does anyone have any advice on when to use the power sword and when to use the neurogauntlet with the eversor? I'm guessing you use the gauntlet against high toughness or low save opponents but does anyone know the values where you would use the sword?

The only times I'm seeing the sword beat the gauntlet are like t3 4+ armor no invuln targets.

Gauntlet seems better in almost all situations other than those. Land raider for example, every sword hit has an 11% chance to get through, while every gauntlet hit has an 18%. (These calcs are assuming you hit, since nothing differs on to hit between the two weapons, I didn't include that step. Real wound chances are slightly smaller on both.) Against rhino equiv's (t6-7 good armor no invuln,) the weapons both wound 27.77 % of their hits. The gauntlet wins against meq as well 44 % to 41 % from the sword.

I haven't done exhaustive research obviously, but if the gaunt is ever wounding easier than the sword, if the target has an invuln, or if the target has just a bleh save, it's the obvious choice as a general rule.

Also more save rolls instead of a couple hard saves means they can abuse cp less with the 1/phase limit. Small factor, but there. So if you're not sure, I'd probably just throw the gaunt.

So funny story, set up a Vindicare in cover, watched him achieve next to nothing as my opponent had a dark eldar parking lot. Not many characters to gun down and the Exitus Rifle is.....okay.....i guess..... against vehicles.

Oh well, lesson learned.

Godeskian wrote:
So funny story, set up a Vindicare in cover, watched him achieve next to nothing as my opponent had a dark eldar parking lot. Not many characters to gun down and the Exitus Rifle is.....okay.....i guess..... against vehicles.

Oh well, lesson learned.

Did you have nothing to pop their vehicles to expose the soft centers?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Godeskian wrote:
So funny story, set up a Vindicare in cover, watched him achieve next to nothing as my opponent had a dark eldar parking lot. Not many characters to gun down and the Exitus Rifle is.....okay.....i guess..... against vehicles.

Oh well, lesson learned.

Did you have nothing to pop their vehicles to expose the soft centers?

I was genuinely surprised at how hard it was to crack an army filled with nothing but raiders and venoms within the limitations of what I own Grey Knight wise. Between flicker fields on the venoms and the night fighting making everything harder to hit, it was tough going.

Imma need to buy more dreadnoughts, or aquire landraiders or stormravens

I do miss the Turbo-penetrator round on the Vindicare's....

The Exitus Rifle seems mediocre against anything but Infantry. Having only S5 makes it hard to get any value out of him.

I am currently planning an army with 18 Assassins! Here are my thoughts:

Vindicare- Generally is very situational, vs monstrous characters not great, against mechanised lists not great. The problem is I forsee that most lists will be mechanised.

Callidus- Potentially good as she can cause mortal wounds with her Neural Shredder and can deal with heavily armoured infantry with her phase sword (e.g. Terminators), the Polymorphine is useful for potentially getting behind advancing bubble raps.

Eversor- 1 st turn assault, and have 6 Wounds and 4++ so is tougher than you think, for the cost is probably point for point one of the best models for killing marines in combat.

Culexus- I am really unsure about this guy, some of abilities are psyker focused so are situational, ignoring all armour saves is great but only has 4 attacks, basically has invisibility making him really awkward for the enemy to deal with. For me this guy is someone who can hold up units and absorb alot of firepower, they could be great objective snatchers as they will be difficult to shift. Overall I am just unsure whether he is worth it compared with the others, out of my 18 I my include a few but the main focus will be Callidus and Eversor.

The problem for any assassin list will be high Toughness models. Last couple times I used them, they struggled a lot to hurt T6+ monsters and vehicles. Might want 1 ally (like a Knight Atrapos) to deal with those.

18 assassins leaves about 600-700 pts, I need some Hq's for Vanugard detachments, the problem is I need 18 units to allow me to deepstike all my units.

Commissars and Conscripts. Each unit of 20 costs 60pts so while it won't get you to 18, it will get you close!

Inquisitors are cheap at 55 base and can be psykers. Psy-inquisitor spam with hammers for some nice S6 3 damage hits. Plus smite everything. Take 6 of these with some kit and put 6 Assassins with each pair. A plenty of CPs from all those Vanguards (+3 total) and 3 for battle forge for 6 total.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After looking at it battlescribe you could do some pretty dirty things with this list. A bunch of vindicares to snipe HQs. Deepstrike your culexus assassins in as targets for ranged shooting or vs strong melee units because of 6s to hit and armor ignore. Eversors hunt High T and high W because of Melta bombs and mortal wounds on death. Callidus assassins are your QRF. I am not sure I would run Callidus in this list though, other 3 seem way stronger unless I am missing something.

My list is 2000 exactly with 6 Cul, Vind, and Eversor and 6 nemesis hammer psyker inquisitors. 4 with inferno pistols, 1 with bolt pistol and 1 with a needle pistol.

Haveatya wrote:
Inquisitors are cheap at 55 base and can be psykers. Psy-inquisitor spam with hammers for some nice S6 3 damage hits. Plus smite everything. Take 6 of these with some kit and put 6 Assassins with each pair. A plenty of CPs from all those Vanguards (+3 total) and 3 for battle forge for 6 total.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After looking at it battlescribe you could do some pretty dirty things with this list. A bunch of vindicares to snipe HQs. Deepstrike your culexus assassins in as targets for ranged shooting or vs strong melee units because of 6s to hit and armor ignore. Eversors hunt High T and high W because of Melta bombs and mortal wounds on death. Callidus assassins are your QRF. I am not sure I would run Callidus in this list though, other 3 seem way stronger unless I am missing something.

My list is 2000 exactly with 6 Cul, Vind, and Eversor and 6 nemesis hammer psyker inquisitors. 4 with inferno pistols, 1 with bolt pistol and 1 with a needle pistol.

My problem with Vindicare's is that they are situational, If you opponent deploys a character in a vehicle, is not infantry or is deployed right behind something that blocks line of sight then the Vindicare becomes much less useful. The Callidus allows you potential get in behind bubble wraps as they can be close than 9". I think the Culexus as an anti elite unit could work on review as they just soak up damage. I think Eversors should be the core of the force high T targets are the meta at the moment so I think they will certainly be first choice.

Also 6 Vindicares is very much overkill 2-3 should get the job done

Since assassins have been around there's always been a way of fielding all 4. 40k is a huge universe therefore rare events happen somewhere in it.

Ok so looking at cheap options to get up to the number of units so all my units can deepstike:

The Tauros Assault vehicle- cheap and really fast but forgeworld have stopped making.

Heavy Weapons teams- with mortars dirty cheap and easy to hide.

I have just seen the Cyclops demolition vehicle rules- it looks hilarious!

0604854 wrote:
18 assassins leaves about 600-700 pts, I need some Hq's for Vanugard detachments, the problem is I need 18 units to allow me to deepstike all my units.

Since your running 18 assassin's your clearly not above cheese -so here's what you do
Pick Cheap HQ to preference Primaris Psycker, Inquisitor guard company comander purely as a distraction

Then read the undersized unit rule. It's in each index and the main rulebook

Abuse the undersized unit rule

1 unit of 1 scout
1 unit if 1 conscript
1 unit of 1Veteran
1 unit of 1 vanguard
1 unit of 1 ranger
1 fenrisian Wolf

I swapped my 2x Vindicare for 2x Eversor and had much better results against Dark Eldar.

I think it's critical to pick the appropriate Assassin.

Eversor => Bikes/Vehicles
Culexus => Psykers / w.e
Vindicare => Infantry Heroes
Callidus => ???

Callidus seems best against elite armies. It has -3ap, ignores invulnerables and can inflict mortal wounds. If the enemy doesn't bubble wrap it can get close to good targets too. And it can force the enemy to spend and extra cp, something elite armies don't get as much of.

The only problem I ran into with the Callidus (trying her for 2 games now) was that she's wounding most targets on 5's. Seriously dampened her effectiveness.

I was fighting Daemons and Tyranids though.

The Eversor even rerolls failed wounds when it uses the NeuroGauntlet. Meaning that against t5 he's hittin on 2s, wounding on 4s, rerolling,

That averages to a little over 5 wounds right?

If the Neural Shredder was a flamer and she had the 6 attacks I could imagine paying up for her. (70 vs 80). Otherwise it feels like a no-brainer to take the Eversor. He even has one more wound.. and explodes.