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Eversor seems like a really solid option for general lists. Culexus should be in lists without a lot of psyker support.

 Trickstick wrote:
Just out of interest, does anyone have any advice on when to use the power sword and when to use the neurogauntlet with the eversor? I'm guessing you use the gauntlet against high toughness or low save opponents but does anyone know the values where you would use the sword?

The gauntlet is better than the sword against most basic units you'll find - Marines, Orks, and Guardsmen.

The sword is better against T3 4+ save models, Terminators, and things with T6-7 (actually the sword and gauntlet are equal vs. the common T6/7 3+ save vehicle profile, but the sword's profile is more favorable for potential rerolls).

I played a 1000 pt game, Marines vs Inq, with 3 assassins.

They seem... dramatically undercosted.

I have been running 2 vindicares, a callidus, and an eversor alongside my tempestus scion force and it has been doing some work so far.

My culexus was great today vs Grey Knights, obviously. Eversor got a charge off versus an enemy character but failed to do anything cool and was rapid fired by 12 scion plasma gunners.

U02dah4 wrote:

0604854 wrote:
18 assassins leaves about 600-700 pts, I need some Hq's for Vanugard detachments, the problem is I need 18 units to allow me to deepstike all my units.

Since your running 18 assassin's your clearly not above cheese -so here's what you do
Pick Cheap HQ to preference Primaris Psycker, Inquisitor guard company comander purely as a distraction

Then read the undersized unit rule. It's in each index and the main rulebook

Abuse the undersized unit rule

1 unit of 1 scout
1 unit if 1 conscript
1 unit of 1Veteran
1 unit of 1 vanguard
1 unit of 1 ranger
1 fenrisian Wolf

WOW! did not notice that on first reading of the book, must have skimmed over it, this opens up ALOT of options.

Wait the rulebook says you have to pay for the minimum size of the unit whether you bring them or not but the index says that you only pay for the models you bring, which is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Haveatya wrote:
My culexus was great today vs Grey Knights, obviously. Eversor got a charge off versus an enemy character but failed to do anything cool and was rapid fired by 12 scion plasma gunners.

Eversor is not really for character hunting he would much prefer smacking up infantry. The Vindicare or Callidus would be better for that job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I would like your guys feedback on is how many of each assassin to take? This is my current thinking:

I am Thinking 2 Vindicare is about right, anymore and I think it's excessive especially when some armies won't have alot of targets.

5 Culexus Assassins mainly for tarpitting and anti psyker.

3 Callidus Assassins- Basically they kill any T4 fighty characters and anyone with good invulnerable saves (storm shileds etc.)

8 Eversors- My favorite and all those melta bombs will come in useful.

Now the question people are posing is whether the Callidus is worth it compared to the Eversor (what he she do that the Eversor can't) the potentially closer deep strike can help get around bubble wrapping etc. As they only need smaller gaps to deepstrike, the command point ability is a nice bonus and her shredder can chip a few wounds of vehicles if needs must, one big thing is she can hit and run which means she always gets to use the shredder and strike 1st in your turn. All being said she is situational so I could see myself dropping her down to 2 for another Eversor.

I'd say the real benefits of the Callidus is more in the back-field harassment and chaos she can cause. With her Hit and Run ability she can jump between units (provided they don't fall back). Also prevents her from getting tarpitted.

Add in Reign of Confusion and she can potentially (at best) halve your opponent's CPs just for existing - and she doesn't have to be on the board to cause that effect.

She still seems decent at fighting characters, but that just seems to be a side benefit/bonus or a contingency while she serves her primary role as a harassment/disruption unit. With the way things like HWTs for AM look to be coming back in a big way, she could fill a pretty useful role.

0604854 wrote:
Wait the rulebook says you have to pay for the minimum size of the unit whether you bring them or not but the index says that you only pay for the models you bring, which is it?

I think it does specify the minimum squad size in the index in the unit entry. So you do have to pay for the minimum number of models even if you don't take them all.

GhostRecon wrote:
I'd say the real benefits of the Callidus is more in the back-field harassment and chaos she can cause. With her Hit and Run ability she can jump between units (provided they don't fall back). Also prevents her from getting tarpitted.

Add in Reign of Confusion and she can potentially (at best) halve your opponent's CPs just for existing - and she doesn't have to be on the board to cause that effect.

She still seems decent at fighting characters, but that just seems to be a side benefit/bonus or a contingency while she serves her primary role as a harassment/disruption unit. With the way things like HWTs for AM look to be coming back in a big way, she could fill a pretty useful role.

I am thinking now 2 Callidus, I think your right, she is there for annoyance and harassment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ther things I am thinking of to make up the numbers are:

Adeptus Astrates Tarantulas for fast attack with twin assault cannons

Heavy weapon Squads with Mortars

Company commanders for orders

And some lascannons either as part of heavy weapon squads or to go with Tarantulas (not sure which would be the most cost effective and game effective).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just posted the latest version of my assassin list:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730716.page#9458911

How should Callidus be used, and when should you use what weapon? I've seen suggestions that she is a melee version of the Vindicare - to be used against characters, but I don't see

For the phase sword with only strength 4 - characters are going to most likely have a higher toughness, so hitting on 5+

Poison Blades hits easily but has a low -ap, and only seems worth using against characters after a few fights to increase the number of attacks.

She also seem a bit squishy in close combat as well.

She's an anti-Space Marine, Eldar and IG Character unit. Against all of those, the S4 on the Phase Sword works O.K. Against Daemon, Ork and Tyranid characters though, more difficult.

Neural Shredder isn't bad for shooting at Imperial Knights and Tanks though.

PUFNSTUF wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

PUFNSTUF wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Eversor and Callidus both have high points, and the Callidus has a chance to force enemies to spend extra cp on the first turn, when
Yes but I mean is he punching stuff with his fists then? Pretty funny if he's more Killy that way than assassins with swords haha.

I mean, the Culexus is literally siphoning the souls of his/her victims out with his/her bare hands (They are literally the Ardat Yakshi of the 40k Universe for any Mass Effect Fans out here #represent) . Culexus is basically at S4 AP-10 using arcane negative warp energy to send his enemies into oblivion to be Slaneeshes Playtoy. So, do they really need a sword?

Personally the Culexus lore is my favorite. Easily the best crafted of the assassins, the Eversor lore makes no sense at all, build a super soldier that's job is to go into a frenzy and kill stuff? Isn't that like the sole job EVERY single deadly elite unit out there lore wise?

Assassins have serious survivability problems, and the Vindicare and Culexus are the only ones who solve that.
Example: If an Eversor (which seems to be all the rattle these days) Agaisnt Hoarde Guard or my Tempestus + Airwing + Astra Telepatica, you will kill like 7 and then get drowned by 100 las gun shots, as they can shoot after falling back, same with Tau. As both armies will eat Eversor and Calladius booty for breakfast.

I love the model for both of the two though!

Well that's not what the Eversor is only about, but alright.

Well lets have a look at those 100 Lasguns, lets say you hit on 3's thats 66 hits, you wound on 5's that's 22 wounds, you then roll saves thats 1 unsaved wounds, Eversors have 6 wounds each so you have killed nearly 2 assassins. That's not alot considering the firepower you put into them, yes your army probably has other firepower to also take potshots (Lascannons etc.) but you have to consider what else you could have shot with those 100 Lasguns except the Eversors.

WOW! did not notice that on first reading of the book, must have skimmed over it, this opens up ALOT of options.

Wait the rulebook says you have to pay for the minimum size of the unit whether you bring them or not but the index says that you only pay for the models you bring, which is it?

The 5 indices and the newest FAQ over rules the main rulebook for BattleForged Armies In Matched Play games.

So you only have to pay for the models and wargear that you actually field

I noticed a few people talking about the callidus and stating they don't have an attack for high toughness but if they use the poison blades they wound everything on a 3+ right? That would be their answer to that question I'm assuming unless I'm reading something wrong.

I'm actually quite torn on whether to try a callidus or cullexus right now. suggestions? I do run a psyker in my list; so would it be good to have the cullexus to make sure my powers have the best chance to go off and nearly guaranty I shut my opponents down. They could still be fairly relevant in combat with being just generally tough to kill. Or would the callidus offer just way more flexibility and dmg output. Seems she could get into a lot of situations which is interesting in itself.

Well, keep in mind that the Culexus' Animus Speculum only becomes D6 shots when there are ENEMY psykers within 18".

The Culexus doesn't draw power from your psykers but in return doesn't hinder them either.

Doctoralex wrote:
Well, keep in mind that the Culexus' Animus Speculum only becomes D6 shots when there are ENEMY psykers within 18".

The Culexus doesn't draw power from your psykers but in return doesn't hinder them either.

Yeah. I think the Culexus' role is much more defined by her bubble of anti-psyker. Though he/she won't be bad in combat necessarily. Just I don't expect fantastic results from her in that regard. The Callidus though seems a bit more agile in that regard. Probably not as good as the Evesor but a little more diverse.

0604854 wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

0604854 wrote:
18 assassins leaves about 600-700 pts, I need some Hq's for Vanugard detachments, the problem is I need 18 units to allow me to deepstike all my units.

Since your running 18 assassin's your clearly not above cheese -so here's what you do
Pick Cheap HQ to preference Primaris Psycker, Inquisitor guard company comander purely as a distraction

Then read the undersized unit rule. It's in each index and the main rulebook

Abuse the undersized unit rule

1 unit of 1 scout
1 unit if 1 conscript
1 unit of 1Veteran
1 unit of 1 vanguard
1 unit of 1 ranger
1 fenrisian Wolf

WOW! did not notice that on first reading of the book, must have skimmed over it, this opens up ALOT of options.

Wait the rulebook says you have to pay for the minimum size of the unit whether you bring them or not but the index says that you only pay for the models you bring, which is it?

The latest FAQ says you only pay for the models in understrength units that you use, but they can only be taken as Aux detachments. So unless you hate CP spamming them isn't a great idea.

Took the Callidus today and its Neural Shredder is amazing for wiping out elite units such as Terminators and Mega Nobs. It's not the greatest ever in melee but it's no slouch either.

Yup remember the Callidus's other passive too. With all the new strategems coming out in the codexes, the Callidus goes 'you feelin' lucky, punk?' When the enemy wants to use strategems turn 1.

Hey all, I've been wanting to try out a single Culexus for anti-psyker support. Can a single Culexus ability to dampen psyker effects handle psyker threats or should it be backed up with a libby in your experience? Thanks!

Bringing this tactica back from the dead!

Rather than people spam individual posts, Im hoping to see everyone contribute to this post for ideas and experiences using the new Index Imperialis: Assassins (can we get a thread title change?)

Today I am going to test out a triple Vindicare and Eversor detachment for 340pts for fun.

On paper the Vindicare appears to require 2 or 3 to be effective in removing characters. Has anyone had practical experiences with this?

Triple Eversor would be decent too. I feel like triple Culexus would only be situational other than being an annoyance for some armies. There is really no need for multiple Callidus.

The bonus for having 1 of each assassin also feels like a trap. Its a lot of points firstly, highly situational, and not optimal load out with a single vindicare.

Anything else I missed?

 Smirrors wrote:
Bringing this tactica back from the dead!

Rather than people spam individual posts, Im hoping to see everyone contribute to this post for ideas and experiences using the new Index Imperialis: Assassins (can we get a thread title change?)

Today I am going to test out a triple Vindicare and Eversor detachment for 340pts for fun.

On paper the Vindicare appears to require 2 or 3 to be effective in removing characters. Has anyone had practical experiences with this?

Triple Eversor would be decent too. I feel like triple Culexus would only be situational other than being an annoyance for some armies. There is really no need for multiple Callidus.

The bonus for having 1 of each assassin also feels like a trap. Its a lot of points firstly, highly situational, and not optimal load out with a single vindicare.

Anything else I missed?

No offense, but I was highly confused reading the first few pages of this thread. Howsabout you just go ahead and create a new one, one that doesn't have people discussing the index rules and suggesting things that have been FAQ'ed out of the game at this point like turn 1 deep strike and mixed imperial lists?

I've tried the three assassins 0CP vanguard detachment with a callidus, eversor and vindicare. Only the eversor accomplished anything, and he took until turn 4 to make his points back, plus I had to pump 3CP into him to get him to do it - not an efficient performance, but better than the other two. Callidus succeeded her charge but flubbed the combat, and the vindicare failed to connect 3/4 turns he was alive, since he's got a 45% chance of failing to wound vs power armor.

unsurprisingly, the chicken little hype for the assassins seems to have been somewhat overblown. I think they'll be used as an 85pt sideboard in compeitive games and might see some action.

 3orangewhips wrote:
I played a 1000 pt game, Marines vs Inq, with 3 assassins.

They seem... dramatically undercosted.

That's not a good level to determine their usefulness. You can play 700 pt games with baneblades in them if you know what I mean.

Yea, the 85 pt sideboard for one assassin seems to be the way to go. Callidus if you need to drain the enemy's CP, like if they are using Knights or Orks with many Lootas or Tankbustas, Eversor if they have hordes you need to clear or just general purpose, or Culexus if you need anti spyker. Vindicare seems like the worst choice IMO, though he may be useful against Harlequins, to help take down Skyweavers and other hard to kill units that have invulnerable saves.

The 85 pt deal is simply amazing. It's like getting daemon summoning, only with no movement penalties and with no chance of failure. The assassins are so impact heavy in their role that by just bringing a standard whatever list and suddenly popping the culexus, you are already messing up with your opponents 300-400+ pt spent in psykers (700+ if we are talking Thousand Sons).

topaxygouroun i wrote:
The 85 pt deal is simply amazing. It's like getting daemon summoning, only with no movement penalties and with no chance of failure. The assassins are so impact heavy in their role that by just bringing a standard whatever list and suddenly popping the culexus, you are already messing up with your opponents 300-400+ pt spent in psykers (700+ if we are talking Thousand Sons).

I think the culexus vs psyker heavy opponent is realy the only situation where this holds true, though. If I bring a horde of orks I'm not going to go "oh noes, my opponent has an eversor assassin whatever will I do?" because he'll show up turn 2, probably make it in, and maybe make his points back over a few rounds of combat if he doesn't just get unlucky and die. And even with the culexus, you'd better hope your opponent doesn't have any autohit weaponry handy. Or you know, dark reapers with forewarned, which removes one of the major opponents you'd really love to have your culexus against.

if I'm thinking of the best edge cases for the sideboard assassin, I've got:

-Culexus vs a psyker heavy *but not eldar psyker heavy with DR's* opponent
-Vindicare vs an opponent with a bunch of infantry characters who are also expensive and also not with good armor saves. So, Orks, and...dark eldar, I guess, since they're mostly invuln-based?
-Callidus vs...an opponent you know is going to spend a LOT of really cheap 1cp stratagems turn 1? I don't know.
-Eversor by default but I guess he really likes an opponent with a ton of non-chaff elite 1w models. Yeah that's a lot of situations in the competitive meta.


For 85pts, the chance of them falling flat on their face due to bad rolling is still very much present, and has always been a big problem with them. Because beside the debuff aura out of the culexus, every assassin comes down to one shot, or one charge roll, or one round of combat as they try to bring their target down.

In most situations, mr. vindicare needs to hit on a 2, wound on a 2, and not have his opponent save on a 6 in order to make his shot connect. He's gonna fail that almost 50% of the time.

This really should have been a new thread. The first 2 pages are out of date and aren't just useless but actively detrimental.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Smirrors wrote:
Bringing this tactica back from the dead!

Rather than people spam individual posts, Im hoping to see everyone contribute to this post for ideas and experiences using the new Index Imperialis: Assassins (can we get a thread title change?)

Today I am going to test out a triple Vindicare and Eversor detachment for 340pts for fun.

On paper the Vindicare appears to require 2 or 3 to be effective in removing characters. Has anyone had practical experiences with this?

Triple Eversor would be decent too. I feel like triple Culexus would only be situational other than being an annoyance for some armies. There is really no need for multiple Callidus.

The bonus for having 1 of each assassin also feels like a trap. Its a lot of points firstly, highly situational, and not optimal load out with a single vindicare.

Anything else I missed?

No offense, but I was highly confused reading the first few pages of this thread. Howsabout you just go ahead and create a new one, one that doesn't have people discussing the index rules and suggesting things that have been FAQ'ed out of the game at this point like turn 1 deep strike and mixed imperial lists?

I've tried the three assassins 0CP vanguard detachment with a callidus, eversor and vindicare. Only the eversor accomplished anything, and he took until turn 4 to make his points back, plus I had to pump 3CP into him to get him to do it - not an efficient performance, but better than the other two. Callidus succeeded her charge but flubbed the combat, and the vindicare failed to connect 3/4 turns he was alive, since he's got a 45% chance of failing to wound vs power armor.

unsurprisingly, the chicken little hype for the assassins seems to have been somewhat overblown. I think they'll be used as an 85pt sideboard in compeitive games and might see some action.

How is the Vindicare failing to wound vs power armor? He hits on 3's, 2's if he does not move, and always wounds infantry on a 2, or do you mean he has a 45% chance of killing a power armored character in one turn? I think the Vindicare needs sniper support, either by taking a second Vindicare or any other snipers. He seems to be about 1 or 2 wounds short on average on killing characters.