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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/17 09:21:08
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
Watch Fortress Excalibris
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Has anyone done a math-hammer comparison of stiletto knife and laspistol vs. two laspistols for Escher gangers in melee? It's obvious that Escher juves are always going to be better off with two pistols due to their pathetic S2, but does the same apply to gangers?
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A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/18 02:57:30
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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Stiletto will suffer in that comparison until they fix Toxin. Once Toxin works as advertised, we can do the math and decide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/18 05:02:13
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
We'll find out soon enough eh.
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Rather than start a new thread for something so similar, I'll ask here - what's the verdict on the stub-plas combi pistol? On paper it looks more expensive than just buying plasma and stub pistols yet is, mechanically, worse. Am I missing something or is it literally only of use as a "rolling in creds" one-weapon-slot addition to a boss/champ who already has two weapon-slots filled?
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I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/18 08:32:33
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yodhrin wrote:Rather than start a new thread for something so similar, I'll ask here - what's the verdict on the stub- plas combi pistol? On paper it looks more expensive than just buying plasma and stub pistols yet is, mechanically, worse. Am I missing something or is it literally only of use as a "rolling in creds" one-weapon-slot addition to a boss/champ who already has two weapon-slots filled?
The two main reasons I use it, rule of cool. It looks cool and is badass. Use it. The second is, its always helpful to have a backup weapon. Plasma can be... fickle. More often than not, someone's plasma weapon jams is is no longer useful in many of our matches. Having the pistol combo means, you still get to have your 2H weapon bonus, a working pistol after the plasma fails and flexibility. It never hurts to have options.
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8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/18 08:47:13
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wait, having a gun (basic weapon) does not stop you from getting +1 Attack if also having 2 pistols / close combat weapons?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/18 09:49:55
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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The stubgun/plasma pistol combi-weapon is a pistol. Also, it looks like Tsol is meaning that if you have a model with the combi-pistol and a melee weapon, running out of plasma ammo means you still have the stubgun remaining, unlike if you just had a plasma pistol.
It does appear, though (I'll need to check the rulebook to confirm) that having a basic or special weapon doesn't prevent you using two weapons in melee.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 09:51:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/19 05:43:57
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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AndrewGPaul wrote:The stubgun/plasma pistol combi-weapon is a pistol. Also, it looks like Tsol is meaning that if you have a model with the combi-pistol and a melee weapon, running out of plasma ammo means you still have the stubgun remaining, unlike if you just had a plasma pistol.
It does appear, though (I'll need to check the rulebook to confirm) that having a basic or special weapon doesn't prevent you using two weapons in melee.
It was that way in the original too. You just need to pick which weapons. You could even give a fighter 2 swords and a knife, redundent but doable. I almost always give laz guns, laz pistols and stilelto knifes to most of my gangers. So they are useful in just about any circumstance. Laz for range and pistol/knife for close combat.
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8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/19 09:25:56
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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In the original game, if you had a basic, special or heavy weapon, you could never gain the benefit of using two melee weapons, even if you had them; one hand was always required to hold the main weapons.
The Escher ganger with a sword and autopistol got +1 A in melee. Her colleague with the autogun in one hand, stubgun in the other and a knife at her belt, did not.
Now, that doesn't seem to be a penalty.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/19 09:57:16
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Foxy Wildborne
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Little known fact, when the timeline moved forward with 8th edition, the AdMech also approved the holster and sling STCs for general use.
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/19 11:30:16
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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So y'all happy that rapid fire can cause multiple hits in Close Combat? Do you think you can spread them across multiple opponents?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/19 11:40:12
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Dreyf wrote:In the old Necromunda, guns, hand to hand weapons and pistols had all some different advantages.
The pistols had an range of 16 and +2 accuracy when you where under 8".
Pretty sure this wasn't the case across the board. I'm nowhere near my old rulebooks at the moment, but I'm certain that whilst the autopistol had a +2 at close range, the laspistol at least didn't and I don't think the stub gun did either, I'm not sure about the others though.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 13:25:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/19 11:50:12
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Two autopistols, build your BS, and gain Gunfighter.
That's a lot of dakka, and at short ranges not that much worse than a Heavy Stubber!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 06:13:48
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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AndrewGPaul wrote:In the original game, if you had a basic, special or heavy weapon, you could never gain the benefit of using two melee weapons, even if you had them; one hand was always required to hold the main weapons.
The Escher ganger with a sword and autopistol got +1 A in melee. Her colleague with the autogun in one hand, stubgun in the other and a knife at her belt, did not.
Now, that doesn't seem to be a penalty.
Really? Either my mind has faded (not unlikely) or we were playing it wrong, or both.
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8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 07:06:47
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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You used to get -1 to hit if you had a Heavy Weapon, but I don’t recall not being to dual wield in addition?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 10:30:04
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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From page 27 of the original 1995 rulebook:
In 1995, Rick Priestley et al wrote:FIGHTING WITH TWO WEAPONS
If the model caries a weapon in each hand, such as two
pistols, two swords, or a pistol and a knife, then the model
rolls one extra dice to represent the extra weapon.
This bonus only applies to fighters armed exclusively with
pistols and/or hand-to-hand combat weapons, not to fighters
who carry other basic, special or heavy weapons in
addition. Carrying grenades does not prevent you using an
extra weapon as they are assumed to be clipped to the
model's belt or stowed conveniently out of the way. These
different types of weapon are discussed in detail in the
Armoury section.
(Emphasis mine)
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/20 10:33:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 10:32:44
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Well well well.
Now I can't remember if I knew that back then and have just forgotten or never knew it in the first place!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 10:33:51
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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It's been in the 2003 Underhive edition rulebook, the Community Edition and Shadow War Armageddon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 10:49:16
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yes, it's been quite universal in many GW games, also 40k, fantasy and Mordheim, which is why I asked.
Back then, attacs were very different than now, you wanted a few, but having a lot didn't necessarily help. Now, more is always better it seems. However, you only get to resolve a single attack per pistol, so maybe dual wielding pistols makes the attack characteristic worthless?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/20 10:50:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 11:51:54
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Don't dual-wield pistols in melee if you've got more than one Attack, then.  use a pistol and knife instead. If you've somehow got two pistols and no other melee weapon, you can still kick 'em in the shins.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 11:56:26
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Agreed. But what aboute OP's initial question:
stiletto knife and laspistol vs. two laspistols
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 12:13:33
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Depends what I want to be doing with the model; personally, I'd try to get her two laspistols and a stiletto.
Failing that, two pistols is for close-range shooting, pistol and knife is for getting up close and stabbing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 15:06:17
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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Wouldnt you still get any extra attacks as unarmed though? Say youve got 3 attacks base and are equipped with two pistols - you get one extra attack due to two weapons, bringing you to 4, 2 of which use the pistol profile(s), and two of which count as unarmed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 15:09:12
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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I don't quite understand the rule for duel-wielding pistols.
Do each pistol get an attack, and the rest of the attacks are unarmed, or is it just one pistol attack, and the rest of the attacks are unarmed?
If its the former then gunslinging juves might be fun.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/20 15:17:30
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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OK, it seems to me that:
having two pistols gives you +1 A. Howver, only one Attack die can be assigned to each pistol, so any excess would need to be unarmed attacks.
Having said that, do you allocate attacks to weapons before or after you've rolled to hit? That might make a difference.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/21 07:11:23
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Even if you have two pistols, you may only ever get one attack with them (the pistol(s)). All other attacks are made as unarmed attacks unless you have a melee weapon to put them on.
Unless I missed a skill somewhere or exception clause; lemme know if I did. I've mostly memorized underhive, still working on Gangwar.
(agree with Andrew)
***Allocate hits before rolling. Follow same procedure as if you had two different melee weapons, split dice evenly as possible (pistols only get one) ower picking odds and roll them separately (or have different dice to represent).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/21 07:16:13
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/21 09:24:58
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I disagree with your first sentence; my reading is that you can allocate an Attack to each pistol, not a single Attack to pistols in total.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/21 10:00:33
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Foxy Wildborne
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One per pistol, leftover attacks unarmed.
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/21 10:12:57
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
The ruins of the Palace of Thorns
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*accidental post*
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/21 10:14:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/21 10:32:00
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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I've interpreted it as you can allocate your attacks to pistols (but only one per pistol), not that pistols give you +1 pistol attack on top of your regular A characteristic. Right? So if you have A3 and two pistols, you could make two pistol shots, but the third one is unarmed, and not 3 unarmed and then 2 "bonus" pistol shots.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/21 10:32:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/12/21 10:38:29
Subject: Necromunda Underhive: Are pistols usefull?
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Foxy Wildborne
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H.B.M.C. wrote:I've interpreted it as you can allocate your attacks to pistols (but only one per pistol), not that pistols give you +1 pistol attack on top of your regular A characteristic.
Right?
So if you have A3 and two pistols, you could make two pistol shots, but the third one is unarmed, and not 3 unarmed and then 2 "bonus" pistol shots.
At A3 and two pistols you would make 2 pistol shots and 2 unarmed attacks. You still get the +1 for two weapons.
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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