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Has anyone done a math-hammer comparison of stiletto knife and laspistol vs. two laspistols for Escher gangers in melee? It's obvious that Escher juves are always going to be better off with two pistols due to their pathetic S2, but does the same apply to gangers?

Stiletto will suffer in that comparison until they fix Toxin. Once Toxin works as advertised, we can do the math and decide.

Rather than start a new thread for something so similar, I'll ask here - what's the verdict on the stub-plas combi pistol? On paper it looks more expensive than just buying plasma and stub pistols yet is, mechanically, worse. Am I missing something or is it literally only of use as a "rolling in creds" one-weapon-slot addition to a boss/champ who already has two weapon-slots filled?

 Yodhrin wrote:
Rather than start a new thread for something so similar, I'll ask here - what's the verdict on the stub-plas combi pistol? On paper it looks more expensive than just buying plasma and stub pistols yet is, mechanically, worse. Am I missing something or is it literally only of use as a "rolling in creds" one-weapon-slot addition to a boss/champ who already has two weapon-slots filled?

The two main reasons I use it, rule of cool. It looks cool and is badass. Use it. The second is, its always helpful to have a backup weapon. Plasma can be... fickle. More often than not, someone's plasma weapon jams is is no longer useful in many of our matches. Having the pistol combo means, you still get to have your 2H weapon bonus, a working pistol after the plasma fails and flexibility. It never hurts to have options.

Wait, having a gun (basic weapon) does not stop you from getting +1 Attack if also having 2 pistols / close combat weapons?

The stubgun/plasma pistol combi-weapon is a pistol. Also, it looks like Tsol is meaning that if you have a model with the combi-pistol and a melee weapon, running out of plasma ammo means you still have the stubgun remaining, unlike if you just had a plasma pistol.

It does appear, though (I'll need to check the rulebook to confirm) that having a basic or special weapon doesn't prevent you using two weapons in melee.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The stubgun/plasma pistol combi-weapon is a pistol. Also, it looks like Tsol is meaning that if you have a model with the combi-pistol and a melee weapon, running out of plasma ammo means you still have the stubgun remaining, unlike if you just had a plasma pistol.

It does appear, though (I'll need to check the rulebook to confirm) that having a basic or special weapon doesn't prevent you using two weapons in melee.

It was that way in the original too. You just need to pick which weapons. You could even give a fighter 2 swords and a knife, redundent but doable. I almost always give laz guns, laz pistols and stilelto knifes to most of my gangers. So they are useful in just about any circumstance. Laz for range and pistol/knife for close combat.

In the original game, if you had a basic, special or heavy weapon, you could never gain the benefit of using two melee weapons, even if you had them; one hand was always required to hold the main weapons.

The Escher ganger with a sword and autopistol got +1 A in melee. Her colleague with the autogun in one hand, stubgun in the other and a knife at her belt, did not.

Now, that doesn't seem to be a penalty.

Little known fact, when the timeline moved forward with 8th edition, the AdMech also approved the holster and sling STCs for general use.

So y'all happy that rapid fire can cause multiple hits in Close Combat? Do you think you can spread them across multiple opponents?

Dreyf wrote:
In the old Necromunda, guns, hand to hand weapons and pistols had all some different advantages.

The pistols had an range of 16 and +2 accuracy when you where under 8".

Pretty sure this wasn't the case across the board. I'm nowhere near my old rulebooks at the moment, but I'm certain that whilst the autopistol had a +2 at close range, the laspistol at least didn't and I don't think the stub gun did either, I'm not sure about the others though.

Two autopistols, build your BS, and gain Gunfighter.

That's a lot of dakka, and at short ranges not that much worse than a Heavy Stubber!

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
In the original game, if you had a basic, special or heavy weapon, you could never gain the benefit of using two melee weapons, even if you had them; one hand was always required to hold the main weapons.

The Escher ganger with a sword and autopistol got +1 A in melee. Her colleague with the autogun in one hand, stubgun in the other and a knife at her belt, did not.

Now, that doesn't seem to be a penalty.

Really? Either my mind has faded (not unlikely) or we were playing it wrong, or both.

You used to get -1 to hit if you had a Heavy Weapon, but I don’t recall not being to dual wield in addition?

From page 27 of the original 1995 rulebook:

In 1995, Rick Priestley et al wrote:FIGHTING WITH TWO WEAPONS
If the model caries a weapon in each hand, such as two
pistols, two swords, or a pistol and a knife, then the model
rolls one extra dice to represent the extra weapon.
This bonus only applies to fighters armed exclusively with
pistols and/or hand-to-hand combat weapons, not to fighters
who carry other basic, special or heavy weapons in
addition. Carrying grenades does not prevent you using an
extra weapon as they are assumed to be clipped to the
model's belt or stowed conveniently out of the way. These
different types of weapon are discussed in detail in the
Armoury section.

(Emphasis mine)

Well well well.

Now I can't remember if I knew that back then and have just forgotten or never knew it in the first place!

It's been in the 2003 Underhive edition rulebook, the Community Edition and Shadow War Armageddon.

Yes, it's been quite universal in many GW games, also 40k, fantasy and Mordheim, which is why I asked.

Back then, attacs were very different than now, you wanted a few, but having a lot didn't necessarily help. Now, more is always better it seems. However, you only get to resolve a single attack per pistol, so maybe dual wielding pistols makes the attack characteristic worthless?

Don't dual-wield pistols in melee if you've got more than one Attack, then. use a pistol and knife instead. If you've somehow got two pistols and no other melee weapon, you can still kick 'em in the shins.

Agreed. But what aboute OP's initial question:

stiletto knife and laspistol vs. two laspistols

Depends what I want to be doing with the model; personally, I'd try to get her two laspistols and a stiletto.

Failing that, two pistols is for close-range shooting, pistol and knife is for getting up close and stabbing.

Wouldnt you still get any extra attacks as unarmed though? Say youve got 3 attacks base and are equipped with two pistols - you get one extra attack due to two weapons, bringing you to 4, 2 of which use the pistol profile(s), and two of which count as unarmed.

I don't quite understand the rule for duel-wielding pistols.
Do each pistol get an attack, and the rest of the attacks are unarmed, or is it just one pistol attack, and the rest of the attacks are unarmed?

If its the former then gunslinging juves might be fun.

OK, it seems to me that:

having two pistols gives you +1 A. Howver, only one Attack die can be assigned to each pistol, so any excess would need to be unarmed attacks.

Having said that, do you allocate attacks to weapons before or after you've rolled to hit? That might make a difference.

Even if you have two pistols, you may only ever get one attack with them (the pistol(s)). All other attacks are made as unarmed attacks unless you have a melee weapon to put them on.

Unless I missed a skill somewhere or exception clause; lemme know if I did. I've mostly memorized underhive, still working on Gangwar.

(agree with Andrew)

***Allocate hits before rolling. Follow same procedure as if you had two different melee weapons, split dice evenly as possible (pistols only get one) ower picking odds and roll them separately (or have different dice to represent).

I disagree with your first sentence; my reading is that you can allocate an Attack to each pistol, not a single Attack to pistols in total.

One per pistol, leftover attacks unarmed.

*accidental post*

I've interpreted it as you can allocate your attacks to pistols (but only one per pistol), not that pistols give you +1 pistol attack on top of your regular A characteristic.

Right?

So if you have A3 and two pistols, you could make two pistol shots, but the third one is unarmed, and not 3 unarmed and then 2 "bonus" pistol shots.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've interpreted it as you can allocate your attacks to pistols (but only one per pistol), not that pistols give you +1 pistol attack on top of your regular A characteristic.

Right?

So if you have A3 and two pistols, you could make two pistol shots, but the third one is unarmed, and not 3 unarmed and then 2 "bonus" pistol shots.

At A3 and two pistols you would make 2 pistol shots and 2 unarmed attacks. You still get the +1 for two weapons.