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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 wuestenfux wrote:
 tpogs wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
If you use heavy bolter devastators instead of razorbacks you can pretty easily make an entire army of infantry. Make the enemy's anti-tank a total waste.


I think that's is exactly how to run BA.

30 DC. 3 or more groups of AM with double plasma. 3 Scout squads. And 3 Dev's with 2 lascannons each.

This could be a way to go rendering the enemy anti-tank weapons useless.
But I won't run AM units.


I mean if you don't like assault marines, you can always run vets or more DC. But I think AM still have a place with 5 man double melta units.
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






My main issue is that, now that the Primaris have been released, all our cool unique units who are good look really silly in comparison. Their proportions and stuff look silly now and I can't unsee it. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone else, but I'm struggling to put anything that isn't Primaris into my army. Maybe Terminators and converted Sanguinary Guard, but DC aren't the rage filled monsters I'd like them to look like on the tabletop which spoils it for me unfortunately. So all tactics are sort of chucked outt he window for me, as I'm left with nothing but Primaris, termies and Sanguinary Guard haha.

Maybe that can work? It's just a shame none of the Primaris units have the option to take jump packs or cheap transports, rendering them pretty slow. Intercessors with auto bolters can advance and shoot, which is pretty cool, but that's not the speed of a razerback with a 5 man tac squad and while inceptors can drop down on jump packs, they won't put as much work in as a unit of death company who charge in and wreck someone's day.

So I've been trying to work out a way to feel good about having the old models or ways to convert them but I never end up happy with it.

#CoolStoryBro
   
Made in de
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Germany

Did you guys realize that company veterans can use two inferno pistols ? Thats a nasty surprise for any charging large tyranids, large daemons, etc. They hide in a rhino or razorback until the enemy units are in CC, then pop out and melt them.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

p5freak wrote:
Did you guys realize that company veterans can use two inferno pistols ? Thats a nasty surprise for any charging large tyranids, large daemons, etc. They hide in a rhino or razorback until the enemy units are in CC, then pop out and melt them.
And they can still pistol whip the gak out of anything charging them at 5 Str.

5250 pts
3850 pts
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30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




 Tiberius501 wrote:
My main issue is that, now that the Primaris have been released, all our cool unique units who are good look really silly in comparison. Their proportions and stuff look silly now and I can't unsee it. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone else, but I'm struggling to put anything that isn't Primaris into my army. Maybe Terminators and converted Sanguinary Guard, but DC aren't the rage filled monsters I'd like them to look like on the tabletop which spoils it for me unfortunately. So all tactics are sort of chucked outt he window for me, as I'm left with nothing but Primaris, termies and Sanguinary Guard haha.

Maybe that can work? It's just a shame none of the Primaris units have the option to take jump packs or cheap transports, rendering them pretty slow. Intercessors with auto bolters can advance and shoot, which is pretty cool, but that's not the speed of a razerback with a 5 man tac squad and while inceptors can drop down on jump packs, they won't put as much work in as a unit of death company who charge in and wreck someone's day.

So I've been trying to work out a way to feel good about having the old models or ways to convert them but I never end up happy with it.

#CoolStoryBro


Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
My main issue is that, now that the Primaris have been released, all our cool unique units who are good look really silly in comparison. Their proportions and stuff look silly now and I can't unsee it. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone else, but I'm struggling to put anything that isn't Primaris into my army. Maybe Terminators and converted Sanguinary Guard, but DC aren't the rage filled monsters I'd like them to look like on the tabletop which spoils it for me unfortunately. So all tactics are sort of chucked outt he window for me, as I'm left with nothing but Primaris, termies and Sanguinary Guard haha.

Maybe that can work? It's just a shame none of the Primaris units have the option to take jump packs or cheap transports, rendering them pretty slow. Intercessors with auto bolters can advance and shoot, which is pretty cool, but that's not the speed of a razerback with a 5 man tac squad and while inceptors can drop down on jump packs, they won't put as much work in as a unit of death company who charge in and wreck someone's day.

So I've been trying to work out a way to feel good about having the old models or ways to convert them but I never end up happy with it.

#CoolStoryBro


Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.


Yeah that's true. And having a Primaris Chaplain around can do wonders as well. Maybe I'll embrace it as well and just go a pure Primaris army
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.

This is actually bad news for GW and BA. The new codex seems to be very poor.
I'll get my codex next Saturday.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






 AlexHeap wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Likely Predators or Devastators. Stormraven is more points in one basket, Inceptors for anti-tank overcharging is just suicide.

Does Baal Pred seriously not get access to “Killshot”? I have read that and it doesn’t state the Predator keyword in the stratagem if memory serves. Hopefully an FAQ will solve that. Also would love to know why our predator is more expensive. As it stands Baal Preds won’t be common sights.
Baal Predators have the Predator Keyword, correct? They did in the Index. So if they do, they will be able to use Killshot.


The killshot stratagem calls out the Predator unit name not the PREDATOR keyword so unless it gets FAQ'd Baal Predators can't use it.


Sure, you could go that way, or, because Baal Predators ARE also predators, you could allow them to use Killshot until it's FAQ'd to say otherwise. Either or...
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 wuestenfux wrote:
Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.
The new codex seems to be very poor.
I'll get my codex next Saturday.


I think it's brilliant and at least the best BA dex in a few editions. I liked the WD codex and the 5th edition dex as well, although it was a much better razor spam than JP marines book. I guess if you just wanted red marines that shoot your going to be disappointed.


Anyone know if our predator being 102 points is wrong in the dex. I have the dex but I thought predators game down to 90 in all books with the chapter approved or do we get shafted with a 12 point more expensive predator?
   
Made in de
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Germany

Predators were 102 in the index imperium 1, went down to 90 in the SM codex (not CA), and now they are 102 again in our codex. Its gotta be wrong, probably copy and paste error, someone used the index, not the codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 18:38:30


 
   
Made in fi
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Had my first game with the new codex. Played a 1250 match against death guard. We played a mission from open war deck. No no man's land between deployment zones, two objectives. Result was a tie. I had a 10man DC squad, libby dread, lemmy, SR, DC dread, 2x scouts and 1 plasma tac squad. Libby dread was my warlord with the +1 dam weapon upgrade.

Some thoughts:

DC hit hard, but die really really easily. Compared to DG T5 & disgustingly resilient rule. Libby dread with wings, quickening and red rampage stratagem was a pure beast. I deployed my DC T1 and wished for 1st turn, but enemy got it. Got assaulted by 7man melee plague marines, biologus putrifier and foul blightspawn. Was left 3man up after the charge. Then my libby dread game flying in and did some multi-charging. 7 attacks s10 ap-4 D4 ws 2+ was nasty. Almost killed a nurgle daemon prince the following turn, but it had some game winning dice rolling. In the fifth and last game turn I had a go at the weakened prince with my DC dread equipped with blood talons, got 4 hits through 3dam each) and it had 4 wounds left. So 12 dam incoming! Victory for me.. But first it's relic armour killed my dc dread and it took all the remaining 9 wounds were negated by 4+ disgustingly resilient rolls... If I'd kill his warlord I would have won both objectives.

One "fun fact" from the game.. I shot all my guns from my SR for two turns at a same 5man plague marines squad. Missiles were shot at a foetid bloat-drone, but 32 bolter shots, 12 twin assault cannon shots and 6 twin heavy bolter shots. It's 100 shots at 5man 3+ sv T5 5+ disgustingly resilient unit.. I killed TWO! With 100 shots... Enough banter.. T5 is crazy. So don't shoot at DG armies, they need to be assaulted.

Sniper scouts, unchanged from the index are still meh.. I never seem to get those sixes.

Plasma tac squad (5man, combi®ular) killed more from the plague marine squad than sniper scouts, bolter scouts, SR in two turns..

Lemmy was also a beast in melee, killing a chaos lord in the charge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 20:46:32


 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

What are people's thoughts regarding replacing my Stormraven with a Repulsor tank? I need some potent long-range shooting, and I don't really think the Stormraven is able to provide it as well. I was going to give the Repulsor the Twin Lascannons, Las-talon, Onslaught Gatling, and basically all the other regular small arms it comes with. It just seems like it is able to get 5he job done better now. Honestly, I am thinking of making room for two of them. Each would have an Intercessor Squad and a Lieutenant inside.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




How long is long range? Raven can take 6 48"+ shots. The point hike does hurt a bit, admittedly.

You can't put primaris in a Stormraven.

For a Repulsor, I'd consider loading it up aggressors.
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






What’s the optimal way of running some Reivers? A blob of 10 or 2 groups of 5? The grappling hooks or the grav-shoots?

Also is a repulsor filled with Aggressors better than a redemptor dreadnaught and a unit of inceptors? I only really have the points for one or the other or whatever is the better mix
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Tiberius501 wrote:
What’s the optimal way of running some Reivers? A blob of 10 or 2 groups of 5? The grappling hooks or the grav-shoots?

Also is a repulsor filled with Aggressors better than a redemptor dreadnaught and a unit of inceptors? I only really have the points for one or the other or whatever is the better mix


It all depends. A blob of 10 reivers gives up a "destroy enemy unit" maelstrom objective much less easily than a 5 man unit. But two 5 man units can be more than one place at a time. Myself, I vastly prefer the hooks to the chutes, as we have other units that can deep strike in the middle of the board and the ability to ignore vertical movement is actually EXTREMELY useful in my experience.

Repulsor w/aggressors is a very anti-chaff unit. Redemptor and inceptors can pack a ton of plasma or also go anti-chaff. I'm not really sure which is better.
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

5W 3+5+++ is pretty good, but we do have access to Company Veterans that can intercept wounds. Would it be worth kitting out 3-4 of these with some Stormbolters and perhaps a Storm Shield or 2?
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

5W 3+5+++ is pretty good, but we do have access to Company Veterans that can intercept wounds. Would it be worth kitting out 3-4 of these with some Stormbolters and perhaps a Storm Shield or 2?

Players tend to use overcharged plasma only if a reroll of 1's is available, say from a Captain close enough.
So 2D weapons are not that common these days. But its a good point to give the relic to a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters.
I think there is no further protection necessary for the relic bearer. Otherwise it will become a point sink. Points that could be spent better elsewhere.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

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Made in au
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





DA codex pretty much confirms the Lion's return:

"Buried deep inside the last bedrock of Old Caliban... Lion El'Johnson slumbers".

Has anyone found anything for Sanguinius?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/11 08:50:50


 
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






 Puganaut wrote:
DA codex pretty much confirms the Lion's return:

"Buried deep inside the last bedrock of Old Caliban... Lion El'Johnson slumbers".

Has anyone found anything for Sanguinius?



Yeah our codex says Sanguinius is dead. I can’t remember where it is, I think under the history part of the fluff. Mentions Sanguinius being killed by the Warmaster himself


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
What’s the optimal way of running some Reivers? A blob of 10 or 2 groups of 5? The grappling hooks or the grav-shoots?

Also is a repulsor filled with Aggressors better than a redemptor dreadnaught and a unit of inceptors? I only really have the points for one or the other or whatever is the better mix


It all depends. A blob of 10 reivers gives up a "destroy enemy unit" maelstrom objective much less easily than a 5 man unit. But two 5 man units can be more than one place at a time. Myself, I vastly prefer the hooks to the chutes, as we have other units that can deep strike in the middle of the board and the ability to ignore vertical movement is actually EXTREMELY useful in my experience.

Repulsor w/aggressors is a very anti-chaff unit. Redemptor and inceptors can pack a ton of plasma or also go anti-chaff. I'm not really sure which is better.


Well I went with a unit of 5 Aggressors in a repulsor and 2 units of 3 inceptors with plasma

EDIT: and a unit of 7 Reivers. Replaced my hellblasters with the Inceptors

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/11 08:57:58


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Mississippi

Managed a second game of 40k at 750 points to finish off the escalation league 750 point phase I'm participating in this evening. Went up against a Deathwatch army.

We were both running Vanguard detachments.

Got the center of the table and 4 corners deployment, with the hold your own and your opponent's objective (one of each, one in each deployment zone) by the end of your opponent's turn to win the game, and our twist was Restoratives for D3 wounds restored to a unit at the beginning of each turn.

I was placed in the center of the map, with my opponent deploying on 3 of the 4 sides around me. My opponent also managed to finish deploying before me, and won the roll off to go first. I, however, by the glory of Sanguinius, seized the initiative! My opponent was, in a word, un-amused.

I had held 3 of my jump pack units in reserve to bring in on my first turn from on-high; my Captain, a 6 man Death Company squad, and a Company Champion.

The Captain landed 9" away from a 3 man squad of Aggressors, with an adjacent primaris apothecary, and a Watch Master. My Captain had a hand flamer, a relic blade, and the Angel's Wing jump pack, along with the Artisan of War warlord trait. He made his charge (no re-roll needed crazily enough) and cut down the apothecary and 2 of the 3 aggressors in one round of combat.

The Death Company landed near his Killteam (troops) on the objective, and I used the Descent of Angels strategem to ensure they made it in. Thankfully I rolled well and only lost one model on the charge to a lucky frag cannon solid shell hit. 5 DC made it in, and killed all but 2 of his 6 man killteam.

Lastly, my Company Champion arrived and managed to make the charge on his Librarian standing next to the Killteam that my Death Company charged in on. I only managed to inflict one 2 damage wound on him but that took him to half wounds.

Overall it was a brutal first turn, and was a lot of fun. My opponent did a great job countering my initial alpha strike (that was very lucky I freely admit, making all 3 charges, one of which was on 3D6 granted) but I was able to take advantage of the damage I did early, and by the end of turn 3 I had the objective firmy in hand with my Company Champion and won the game at the bottom of turn 4.

I'm really liking this new codex. Lots of fun, and good abilities and wargear/relics and warlord traits to really make the army work and have excellent synergy.

We just escalated up to 1000 points in the league, so more list building is about to commence.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/11 09:29:09


You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.  
   
Made in au
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





Has anybody tried Intercessors yet? I'm thinking they's be best used to run around and grab objectives. Two five man teams with auto bolters Sergeant with chainsword, so they can advance and fire, or charge if they have to, since they're not rubbish in combat.

Two of those plus by Tactical Squad sets me up pretty well for a Battalion Detachment, so from then I can start filling out a Vanguard Force.
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




 wuestenfux wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

5W 3+5+++ is pretty good, but we do have access to Company Veterans that can intercept wounds. Would it be worth kitting out 3-4 of these with some Stormbolters and perhaps a Storm Shield or 2?

Players tend to use overcharged plasma only if a reroll of 1's is available, say from a Captain close enough.
So 2D weapons are not that common these days. But its a good point to give the relic to a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters.
I think there is no further protection necessary for the relic bearer. Otherwise it will become a point sink. Points that could be spent better elsewhere.


True.

I find it interesting the Terminator Ancient is pretty much straight up a better pick over the Terminator Chaplain.
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






diepotato47 wrote:
Has anybody tried Intercessors yet? I'm thinking they's be best used to run around and grab objectives. Two five man teams with auto bolters Sergeant with chainsword, so they can advance and fire, or charge if they have to, since they're not rubbish in combat.

Two of those plus by Tactical Squad sets me up pretty well for a Battalion Detachment, so from then I can start filling out a Vanguard Force.


I’m interested in auto bolter Intercessors too. They seem pretty good as they can advance all over the place if need be but still shoot at stuff and not be useless, even without transports
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut





It is a bit weird that the Librarian Dreadnought only has Move 6 instead of 8 from the Furioso/DC. Is this a typo?
Also the 3A of the Lib Dread seem to be not really amazing. Is it really worth it to fly him into enemies? Unless you can also cast quickening on him, he seems to not be so killy.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






 Astmeister wrote:
It is a bit weird that the Librarian Dreadnought only has Move 6 instead of 8 from the Furioso/DC. Is this a typo?
Also the 3A of the Lib Dread seem to be not really amazing. Is it really worth it to fly him into enemies? Unless you can also cast quickening on him, he seems to not be so killy.


Cast quickening and he’s nuts. Spend the cp for a further d3 attacks. Have another librarian give him another attack and the Sanguinor nearby. That’s 3+2d3+2 attacks. Admittedly that’s a lot of points and effort going towards one dude, but anything on the other side is well dead
   
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Dakka Veteran




 Astmeister wrote:
It is a bit weird that the Librarian Dreadnought only has Move 6 instead of 8 from the Furioso/DC. Is this a typo?
Also the 3A of the Lib Dread seem to be not really amazing. Is it really worth it to fly him into enemies? Unless you can also cast quickening on him, he seems to not be so killy.


I imagine to the extent it matters, you would always Red Rage him as well as a possible reroll 1's to hit.

WS 2+, 3 + 2D3 attacks rerolling ones starts to stack up. Dude can one-round Guilliman pretty handily.
   
Made in de
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Germany

Lib dread has 6" move, no typo. It hits on 2+ in CC, the DC dread hits on 3+, but can reroll failed hit rolls, because of double fists. Lib dread cant reroll. So both will probably hit 3 times in CC.
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




 wuestenfux wrote:
Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.


Wrong?

Pretty sure adding all the new stuff to the codex was so that people could use it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote:
Lib dread has 6" move, no typo. It hits on 2+ in CC, the DC dread hits on 3+, but can reroll failed hit rolls, because of double fists. Lib dread cant reroll. So both will probably hit 3 times in CC.


If my Libby Dread is charging something important like a Warlord, you can bet I'm blowing 1 CP to give him rerolling ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/11 10:16:27


 
   
Made in de
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Germany

You cant spend 1 CP to reroll 1s. You can spend 1 CP to give him additional D3 attacks.
   
 
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