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Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

General Hobbs wrote:
I'm currently playing an Elysians list, so all my units can deepstrike. The question I am pondering is this....better to go with Veterans as a shock element ( Deepstrike with 3 plasmaguns) vs Stormtroopers ( DS with 4 plasmaguns). Stormtroopers have better armor and hotshots are not bad up close. Veterans cost a lot less and I can take more stuff in the army.

I'm finding the core of my army, 4-5 regular drop squads followed by the shock element to be very effective. But looking at the lists I've made, with veterans I can add in a bunch of mortar and manticore squads, some assassins for HTH etc.

Thoughts on the differences? I know some say go with stormtroopers because they are also troops and can score....

Trick question. You are Elysians. You have special weapons squads!

Veterans: 70 points of dudes, 39 points of 3 plasma guns.
Special Weapon Squad: 30 points of dudes, 21 points of 3 plasma guns.

For every 3 plasma guns on 10 guys you take of veterans, you can take 6 plasma guns on 12 guys with special weapons squads!

Never take veterans, always take special weapon squads!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/30 01:40:31


ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in fi
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




[Expunged from Imperial records] =][=

Hmm, in general Stormtroopers beat Veterans any day of the week.

However, if I were to play elysians, veterans could challenge stormtroopers: they have BS of 3+ and they can deepstrike. The amount of armor is meaningless.

Though that still leaves the issue of deepstriking so many lasguns. Lasguns don't need a grav-chute as a delivery system. Right now, I'd still say I'd go with stormtroopers. That is, with Stormtrooper Command Squads.

"Be like General Tarsus of yore, bulletproof and free of fear!" 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot








I've never seen a tournament require FW models to be used with FW rules. Just that the models be wysiwig.


.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot









Now to find a paint scheme...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/01 18:23:54


.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 ph34r wrote:
General Hobbs wrote:
I'm currently playing an Elysians list, so all my units can deepstrike. The question I am pondering is this....better to go with Veterans as a shock element ( Deepstrike with 3 plasmaguns) vs Stormtroopers ( DS with 4 plasmaguns). Stormtroopers have better armor and hotshots are not bad up close. Veterans cost a lot less and I can take more stuff in the army.

I'm finding the core of my army, 4-5 regular drop squads followed by the shock element to be very effective. But looking at the lists I've made, with veterans I can add in a bunch of mortar and manticore squads, some assassins for HTH etc.

Thoughts on the differences? I know some say go with stormtroopers because they are also troops and can score....

Trick question. You are Elysians. You have special weapons squads!

Veterans: 70 points of dudes, 39 points of 3 plasma guns.
Special Weapon Squad: 30 points of dudes, 21 points of 3 plasma guns.

For every 3 plasma guns on 10 guys you take of veterans, you can take 6 plasma guns on 12 guys with special weapons squads!


Never take veterans, always take special weapon squads!



Those plasmaguns are significantly less accurate, however. They also have lower LD, [should that matter] can't take a plasma pistol on the sarge, have even less C/C potential [At least veterans can hold their own vs other guard, small squads of SM, Grots, etc.] And benefit much less from re-rolling 1's.

I'm not saying Veterans are 100% better, just that it's not as clear cut as you make out. Don't forget the veterans can also take a heavy weapon, and have the option to be dropped in rapid fire range, or at long range to reflect different tactical situations.
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Yeah, there are advantages to veterans.

But, in this wargame where one has the option to sharpen one part of the list at the expense of others, I find that more plasma guns gets the job done right.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller



Ottawa

 Infantryman wrote:
The helmets kill them for me, honestly.


My next major project will be to build an Elysian force using the Cadian infantry respirator helmets. I had this idea awhile back, and thankfully a lot of different people with more time on their hands did as well, so I see this more and more. The results are great, I think. Have a gander here for example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/7n8rtr/finally_finished_my_first_guard_unit_after_a_10/
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Lemondish wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
The helmets kill them for me, honestly.


My next major project will be to build an Elysian force using the Cadian infantry respirator helmets. I had this idea awhile back, and thankfully a lot of different people with more time on their hands did as well, so I see this more and more. The results are great, I think. Have a gander here for example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/7n8rtr/finally_finished_my_first_guard_unit_after_a_10/


I did see something like that recently on Facebook - it actually looks pretty nice! I don't know if I will ultimately go that route - not sure how much money I want to sink into a game that doesn't really compel me to play at this point - but it is up for consideration, at least. I ended up using PIP "Kolony" gas mask heads on Cadian bodies for the army I'm working on now.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






 ph34r wrote:
General Hobbs wrote:
I'm currently playing an Elysians list, so all my units can deepstrike. The question I am pondering is this....better to go with Veterans as a shock element ( Deepstrike with 3 plasmaguns) vs Stormtroopers ( DS with 4 plasmaguns). Stormtroopers have better armor and hotshots are not bad up close. Veterans cost a lot less and I can take more stuff in the army.

I'm finding the core of my army, 4-5 regular drop squads followed by the shock element to be very effective. But looking at the lists I've made, with veterans I can add in a bunch of mortar and manticore squads, some assassins for HTH etc.

Thoughts on the differences? I know some say go with stormtroopers because they are also troops and can score....

Trick question. You are Elysians. You have special weapons squads!

Veterans: 70 points of dudes, 39 points of 3 plasma guns.
Special Weapon Squad: 30 points of dudes, 21 points of 3 plasma guns.

For every 3 plasma guns on 10 guys you take of veterans, you can take 6 plasma guns on 12 guys with special weapons squads!

Never take veterans, always take special weapon squads!



As I stated before, the math hammer says better, the reality is that 3+ to hit is better than 4+, even with more shots.

Why do you have 2 different values for 3 plasma guns? The amount should be the same....

.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress




Tacoma, WA, USA

Because BS 4+ Plasma Guns are 7 points and other Plasma Guns are 13 Points per Chapter Approved.

Thus, he is pointing out that you can purchase two 6-Model/3-Plasma Gun Special Weapons Squads for less points than one 10-Model/3-Plasma Gun Veteran Squads. I'm sure we can both agree that twice as many Plasma Guns (and two extra Lasguns) for less points are a good buy even if the Ballistic Skill is one point less.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






 alextroy wrote:
Because BS 4+ Plasma Guns are 7 points and other Plasma Guns are 13 Points per Chapter Approved.

Thus, he is pointing out that you can purchase two 6-Model/3-Plasma Gun Special Weapons Squads for less points than one 10-Model/3-Plasma Gun Veteran Squads. I'm sure we can both agree that twice as many Plasma Guns (and two extra Lasguns) for less points are a good buy even if the Ballistic Skill is one point less.



Do the chapter approved rules specifically change Forge World points costs?

.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
 
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