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 AegisGrimm wrote:
I can think of half a dozen wargames that are as engrossing as 40k and Age of Sigmar and easier to teach to young adults, so the snark about those is a bit too smug.

Stop moving the goal posts! They grow up so fast as it is!

Well, I was trying to describe something around 8-12 year olds, which I think is really the earliest age to be capable at a full-on wargame, but not 'kids' which is when they are younger than that, but not really the best at tactical thinking and long attention spans. Though I figure I can get my son gaming in short spans when he turns 4-5, but only with a couple games I have in mind that have a minimum of 'moving parts' when it comes to rules complexity.

The mainstream board game market for preteen boys has changed drastically since the '80s and '90s, to the point where the sort of games we grew up with aren't really made any more, unless marketed towards adults.

I don't think there's much of a point in making a GW themed kids game, or a junior version of any of the established games. Sure, having a gateway game like HeroQuest would be neat, but major, mainstream publishers and distributors don't deal in "ameritrash" war games any more, except Risk.

The development in the board games industry since the '80s, has been curious. On one hand, most of the old mainstream publishers were wiped out by video games in the '90s. There is no mainstream market any more, the majority of mainstream games now are reprints of Monopoly and toothless family friendly games you can play with your mother. On the other hand, the abundance of really well-designed games for the hobby gamers is unprecedented. Board games have never been better than they are today, but they're harder to come by for most people.

When I grew up in the late '80s in Norway, most average book stores and toy stores sold games like HeroQuest, and a couple of years later they began to carry proper GW products and magazines.

Agreed. If GW wanted a family friendly family game these days they'd have to go for Monopoly 40K, Ludo 40K or Orks and Ladders


Ergo the really big really well known titles that parents know about and which are known to have simple rules. Because those are the ones parents will pick up for their kids, they are the ones that they'll have heard about and know what's going on (oh its that expensive wargame in monopoly so I can afford it).

The rest of the boardgame market is mostly marketed and sold to students to adults. Heck I'd be hard pressed to find a local toy store that stocked things like Munchkin, Catan or indeed many of the geek popular games even though most would be really accessible to kids and families.

And cast your mind back to the last time you saw a Mousetrap* TV ad actually on the TV. They just don't really feature any more like they used to. Computer games have replaced them for many.



Meanwhile those parents who already own warhammer likely just get their kids involved in their hobby anyway. Sure there's fighting and warriors and suchlike; but honestly that's little different to toy solidiers save that the warhammer has to be put together and painted up; and honestly most models are not that hard to put together for a kid. Mould lines; little inaccuracies, paint blending, layering. Doesn't really mater to get started with (heck I bet most of us have got early models still kicking around with all kinds of faults)




*The game where most people who bought it just built the trap

I was just talking to a mate in the pub who has been running a roleplay campaign for his young nieces.
We covered alot in our conversation but he's super inspired by playing with characters that don't immediately want to kill the dragon, would like to get to know the Orcs and aren't necessarily driven by GC. It was refreshing. I'm inspired.
It's an amazing teaching aid.
Yup.
More games for kids.

Many of the chain book stores and toy stores in Norway, actually have a number of pretty decent games, like Catan, Ticket to RIde and the Amazing Labyrinth, but they tend to disappear in between the stacks of truly awful party games, like Speak Out, Monopoly reprints and cheap, trashy gadget games.

There's very little innovation or originality happening in mainstream games these days, and the selection of games available has become notably narrow. I expect this is mostly the result of how they don't allow stock to sit on the shelves any more, like they used to. Most chain stores will attempt to sell their stock of games within the year, and frequently employ 40% discounts to move games they might not otherwise be able to sell. Whereas in my childhood, I might go to a store to find a greater breadth of games, but some of them would be really dusty.

Here's the thing; Milton Bradley had a lot of abysmally bad games in their catalogue, but they also made Axis and Allies, and they designed new games every year. When a store began trading with them, I suspect the store would receive a wide selection of games, put together by MB. The store most likely weren't able to cherry pick the 3-4 they expect to sell right away, or they had no way of telling which games would be successful or not. Unlike today, when most of the mainstream games appear to have been designed by a committee to appeal to a focus group. Either way, your local shop would get a lot of dumb, trashy MB games, but they would get Axis & Allies and HeroQuest as well.

Why?
There are already kids games from hasbro, ffg, and many others. Why does there need to be a kids game when so many introductory games exist?

I think when people say “kid’s game”, they’re actually talking about the packaging moreso than the content. As people have mentioned, several of GW’s current games are inclusive of kids 13+, but I think some folks want the packaging to relfect that and be “different” from the “serious” artwork aimed at “adults” that we see on most of the boxed sets nowadays. Even the Battle for Vedros has a bit of an “adult” look to it and not as cartoonish as we expect (like the Oi! That’s Me Leg sort of games).

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why?
There are already kids games from hasbro, ffg, and many others. Why does there need to be a kids game when so many introductory games exist?

Building brand loyalty. Look at how many of us have posted fond nostalgic memories of Hero Quest or Battle Masters. Those games exposed young kids to the GW brand, stealthily, but exposed nonetheless. The imagery of the orcs, of the "Empire" humans, and the Chaos knights made seeing the "adult" Fantasy and 40k kits much, much more appealing later on. Nostalgia is a powerful selling tool.

 Stormonu wrote:
I think when people say “kid’s game”, they’re actually talking about the packaging moreso than the content. As people have mentioned, several of GW’s current games are inclusive of kids 13+, but I think some folks want the packaging to relfect that and be “different” from the “serious” artwork aimed at “adults” that we see on most of the boxed sets nowadays. Even the Battle for Vedros has a bit of an “adult” look to it and not as cartoonish as we expect (like the Oi! That’s Me Leg sort of games).

Maybe somewhat, but I don't think of 13+ age groups as being interested in "kids games" since those are essentially teenagers and "kids" to me are pre-pre-teens. So, 9 and under (10 is kinda a grey area for me). For that age group, sharp, fiddly bits are not ideal. Needing to use glues, knives or other hobby tools wouldn't be ideal either. The contents of the game should be easy to use out of the box, and if we are dealing with kids who still put things in their mouth, big enough to not swallow.

Really the problem with this discussion is locking in what age group we are referring to. Children's games are a distinct category in the market. I think Amazon's age breakdown is pretty good with games for: Birth to 24 months, years 2-4, 5-7, 8-13, and finally 14+.

So, what age group are we talking about?

Realistically 8+ is a good target. I have 2 boys aged (nearly) 6 and (nearly) 10. Lately we've been trying to play some board games, and while the eldest is absolutely fine the youngest struggles with stuff like Junior Monopoly and gets very frustrated. We're talking board-flipping, storming off in a tantrum frustrated...

As other people have said, I would just love a re-release of Hero Quest. (Yeah, I know there's the Spanish thing going on with the 25th anniversary version - colour me sceptical...)

I've not been that moved by the new WH Quest boxes. Not actually got them, but the gameplay doesn't quite look right to me - too gimmicky. Read about weird gak like having to stack dice in a tower or something and thought "mmmm, no". The original HQ had beautifully streamlined gameplay, and nice simple but very charming single piece models that didn't need any gluing together (OK, except the gargoyle wings) and would survive being played with by a 6 year old. And substantially more range - Silver Tower and Hammerhal both only seem to have a very limited selection of monsters. Original HQ had a much wider range of greenskins, undead, and chaos. I'm sure it was a hell of a lot cheaper too, even allowing for inflation since...

I had forgotten about Battlemaster! I still use the ogre from it, minus the mace, in Blood Bowl! I cut some swords off of Hero Quest goblins for my BB Gobbos.

Wow... nostalgia is powerful. I would totally buy that today, just for the minis to let my kids play with.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I had forgotten about Battlemaster! I still use the ogre from it, minus the mace, in Blood Bowl! I cut some swords off of Hero Quest goblins for my BB Gobbos.

Wow... nostalgia is powerful. I would totally buy that today, just for the minis to let my kids play with.

I would as well - even though our young one is still at the 'put it in my mouth and see if I can eat it' stage.

The Auld Grump

The boys are 6 and 8... they still put random crap in their mouth. When my youngest was in junior Kindergarten, there was a window by the door, that every child made out with, like they were claiming territory. I was sick that year for 6 months straight.

These days it's mostly to split lego apart, but still. I don't think you outgrow that until you realize what you're touching has been slurped by another human being, and how gross that is.

This new licensed Gretchinz! game, by Devir, seems like a small and fast game, that could introduce some kids to the funny and silly gretchinz, and of course further, actual 40k if they should be so inclined :

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/239951/gretchinz

Recommended from 8 years old, with some cardboard bits to make the buggies.

Of course this will probably be sold in actual boardgame stores and the like, and not in mainstream bookstores as mentioned earlier..

Still need to paint my set.



Was the original Warhammer Quest and Advanced HeroQuest targeted towards older kids? They weren't as simple as HeroQuest, but didn't expect modelling skills like most other GW games. While HQ has IP owned by MB/Hasbro, that doesn't mean GW can't make another dungeoncrawler. GW will also be releasing Talisman and owned other boardgames, so have other entry points into the hobby market.

GW already makes kids games. They are just out of their price range.

 BuFFo wrote:
GW already makes kids games. They are just out of their price range.

$33 for the small starter of AoS could be considered in their range, there is a good amount of miniatures in it (5 stormcast, 8 khorne)

Yeah, those easy to build sets are excellent for starting hobbyists and people wanting some hobby time with their kids on nicely sized figures for easy painting.

In my opinion though GW would need to make a new IP. AoS and 40k are way too dark for ages from 3-8 and the Khorne stuff alone in both has uncomfortable amounts of blood. Nevermind reading it to them. :/

I'd suggest they look at the Overlord videogames (the ones with imps acting like Pikmin) and combine them with warhammer assets and zaniness turned up to 11. An evil overlord with his Grimps(Grot + imp) is causing trouble in the lands of Groma (Greece + Rome ) and the Gromans, who look like the ones from Asterisk and Obelisk, have to stop them. Title: Grimps & Gromes, GG. (Teaches fun and goods sportsmanship)

Make it a board game with lots of cards and colorful fun art to keep their attention (as I have to do with my nieces who got tablet syndrome) and make it a mix of ShadeSpire and Silver Tower with models moving on changeable tiles on a board to go along with stuff like farm tiles that may get you cards with Grimps stuck in pumpkins or Gromans bitten by dragon rabbits.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 BuFFo wrote:
GW already makes kids games. They are just out of their price range.

$33 for the small starter of AoS could be considered in their range, there is a good amount of miniatures in it (5 stormcast, 8 khorne)

Fair enough!!!

 Overread wrote:
Agreed. If GW wanted a family friendly family game these days they'd have to go for Monopoly 40K, Ludo 40K or Orks and Ladders

Squigs and Ladders, surely?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Agreed. If GW wanted a family friendly family game these days they'd have to go for Monopoly 40K, Ludo 40K or Orks and Ladders

Squigs and Ladders, surely?

Don't Wake the Necron

Hungry, Hungry Tyranids

Imperial Pursuit

Checkers: Horus Heresy Edition

Commissar Says...

Cadia (Ala Catan)

Bring back "Trolls in the Pantry" and similar

HeroQuest

Battle Masters

Talisman



Actually, Talisman would be the best bet. Small model count, self contained, leads to the main game proper. Granted it'd have to be AOS-ed to fit with modern lore, but if they had that and something like it for 40K, you'd have your kids games with an "in" right there

I’m another who got into this whole hobby through Heroquest, Space Crusade and Battle Masters. Looking at those, I’d suggest that the issue with what is or isn’t a kids game is pitching the theme and background correctly,

The world of 40k (and to a lesser extent, AoS) isn’t really designed for kids. It was designed by 80s war gamers and role players who folded in their favourite anti-authoritarian fantasy and sci-if tropes, mostly for them and their mates to play. I happen to think that the depiction of the Imperium Of Man is a brilliant setting for a young teenager to read about, as long as they get that it’s meant to be a BAD place to live, and that the fascist xenophobic religious state being the ‘hero’ is meant to be satire. But it won’t work until they’re old enough to understand the politics/satire and it’s probably too overtly bloody and nihilistic to sell as a kids game.

On the other hand, something like Trolls in the Pantry is so overtly ‘for kids’ that it doesn’t really get them hooked into the hobby or universe.

What Heroquest did was straddle that awkward gap where kids want to feel like they’re playing an adult game in an adult setting, but without being too political or gory, and with rules that were more complicated than a one-shot board game but way simpler than a war game.

Remember when you really wanted to read LoTR because it felt like an ‘adult’ book? That’s the market they need to tap into to do the same thing Heroquest did for me.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
They used to!



Just don't look up the tape on YouTube

Spoiler:

Damn, you beat me to it!

Ahhh... I've still got the audio cassette that came with that game

What do you call a squiggly.beastnin a pile of.leaves? Rustle. Why did the troll swim on its.back? I think it was so he didn't tread on the fish.

Also.Chaos Marauders was a nice little simple warhammer fantasy based game.

A kid friendly version of it will increase popularity as well. But as others have said, is it really feasible and what's the main deterrence of the current format?

If you play Shadespire without all the cards it can be a kids game, similar to battlemasters. The models are pretty sturdy and the stats are pretty easy to understand, and the dice with symbols and comparing successes is easy to grasp.

Plus you can add in more complexity as they get older. Start with just alternating turns and trying to take each other out, and you can even leave out stuff like supports and critical hits and add those in later. Then add the objectives when they can understand that, and finally the ploy/upgrade cards.

pretty sure that was the idea behind Storm of Sigmar, a quick intro to AoS for kids, while the larger sets are for the adults.

These were "starter" sets in which miniatures and slottabases are included, as well as d6 dice

The top of the box was divided into a nine-box grid like tic-tac-toe, and dice were rolled in the box top

I still have my copy of Space Fleet (didn’t buy the others), and I don’t play it anymore as it was too easy to “game” those grid results in the box top.

But I do miss GW’s constant stream of boxed sets - big and small, and not always 40K.