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Niiru wrote:


Just my opinion of course, I'm sure anyone who plays Imperium or Death Guard is very happy right now (which is unfortunately a pretty large percentage of the playing population). Would be interested to hear other peoples opinions on these.

- The restriction on factions is a Matched Play-only restriction. You're free to take the Rogue Trader team with Eldar or Tau or whatever in Narrative games.

- Based on previous experiences with groups of special characters (e.g. Colonel Schaffer's Last Chancers), the rules for this team is likely to be on the weak-side anyway.

- If you really want to mix them into your Xenos army, but for whatever reason use matched-play rules in friendly games, just ask your opponent if they're OK with it. Unless you're using it to exploit some unforeseen rules interaction, most players I've met will probably be cool with it.

I'll be honest, while I'm not a fan of all Nurgle all the time, these mini 'dexes increases the chance of an Exodite mini 'dex from "you're totally smoking" to "yeah maybe not".

So I can live with it.

 Nazrak wrote:
It’s incredible. GW are releasing stuff at a rate we’ve literally never seen before and people are still finding ways to complain that not every single release is catering exclusively to their individual tastes.

This would be great and true, if the stuff they were releasing weren't for the same army over and over.

If I was an imperium player I'd be very happy. To the point where, as a chaos/xenos player, I'm hugely tempted just to sell everything and change to imperium. Except that would mean my play group would be all imperium, and thus would be pretty boring.

 Deadshot wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Niiru wrote:

I dunno, maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, but I saw the Rogue Trader models and thought "awesome, GW could release these as a new codex supplement of mercenaries, and have them available to every army! That would be amazing and original!".

Tyranids hiring Rogue Trader mercenaries. That WOULD be original, and uh... amazing.

Haha, well could say the same for Orks too, the idea isn't perfect. But it's 999% more perfect than GW's plan of just releasing nothing but new Imperial units for eternity.

Tau are uniform conformists whose only differences lie in specific tactics of various Septs. We don't need to see Codex Water Caste or Earth Caste as they don't apply to war, and we already have rules to cover Fire, Air and Ethereal Castes.

The main thing with all the Xenos is that even though they have sub-factions, those Sub-factions are not big enough or diverse enough to warrant a seperate book for 1-3 units with little options.

On the other hand, Rogue Traders don't have any current codex that current does them justice and has the diversity to represent them accurately. Inquisition are in a similar situation. Sure, these could surely be condensed into a singular "Imperial Forces" book, but then GW can't sell them as seperate - and they do sell well.

I agree that another Nurgle army is pointless and can be easily rolled into a Death Guard or Nurgle Daemonkin style book, but GW does GW.

Except Tau do, they have all those varied Xenos races that work for/with them in the background. You've got the Demiurg, their Gue'vasa, the Galgs, you could expand out Kroot/Vespids, especially Kroot given their evolution bits, and about ten other races.. Including at least one psyker race (Nicassar)

Where's the beef?

No, seriously where did you hear this?


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Edit. Looks like Kill Team stuff. Sky still intact, moving on.

John Blanche inspired minis? I'm in.


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On a positive downside... There is a lot GW is doing that has me "in". Going to be an expensive winter.

Here is another example of the half hearted “just play imperial or eldar soup” or lose game that 40k has become.

Hopefully they get some sense and ditch all this nonsense that is spiraling out of control.

Or they could just keep releasing specialist games right?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Niiru wrote:

I dunno, maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, but I saw the Rogue Trader models and thought "awesome, GW could release these as a new codex supplement of mercenaries, and have them available to every army! That would be amazing and original!".

Tyranids hiring Rogue Trader mercenaries. That WOULD be original, and uh... amazing.

Haha, well could say the same for Orks too, the idea isn't perfect. But it's 999% more perfect than GW's plan of just releasing nothing but new Imperial units for eternity.

Tau are uniform conformists whose only differences lie in specific tactics of various Septs. We don't need to see Codex Water Caste or Earth Caste as they don't apply to war, and we already have rules to cover Fire, Air and Ethereal Castes.

The main thing with all the Xenos is that even though they have sub-factions, those Sub-factions are not big enough or diverse enough to warrant a seperate book for 1-3 units with little options.

On the other hand, Rogue Traders don't have any current codex that current does them justice and has the diversity to represent them accurately. Inquisition are in a similar situation. Sure, these could surely be condensed into a singular "Imperial Forces" book, but then GW can't sell them as seperate - and they do sell well.

I agree that another Nurgle army is pointless and can be easily rolled into a Death Guard or Nurgle Daemonkin style book, but GW does GW.

Except Tau do, they have all those varied Xenos races that work for/with them in the background. You've got the Demiurg, their Gue'vasa, the Galgs, you could expand out Kroot/Vespids, especially Kroot given their evolution bits, and about ten other races.. Including at least one psyker race (Nicassar)

All of that is just straw grasping and trying to justify fleshing out a tiny population that in reality accounts for less than 0.0001% of the galaxy's total inhabitants. Tau have multitudes of Xenos, but not so many that they need a whole codex each, or even between them. While I agree that many new units for Tau would be useful, they belong firmly in the main Tau book. Kroot evolutions can easily be depicted by options or elite options representing a "evolved" Kroot. Any codex featuring Tau's auxiliary forces would be a B-Side, fan-pandering money grab minidex like Genestealer Cults is.

I remember back in the day, people screamed daylight robbery when GW actually did release sub-faction rules like Farsight Enclaves and Craftworld Iyanden. It just goes to show that GW are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation because everyone wants something different and only the unhappy are vocal about it.

 darkcloak wrote:

On a positive downside... There is a lot GW is doing that has me "in". Going to be an expensive winter.

Yeah. That's my only 'complaint'. STOP MAKING ME SPEND MONEY, FFS GW!

"This game is about Imperium Vs Chaos; Xenos, you should know better"
"Imperium has many more factions than Xenos; Xenos is the same through and through"

Seriously guys?

Imagine if every faction got treated like Space Marines/Imperials - EVERY Craft World/Hive Fleet/Klan/Sept/Dynasty/etc would have a different codex per subfaction.

Meanwhile, boys who are 99% IDENTICAL, minus the color of their armor, get "different" books. Woo, this one has extra plasma strategems, this one has WolfyWolfs; in this one, the guys are really mad! - It's all the same fething crap in reality; so much so, that you can paint the color of your mini a different color, and have a whole new "army"! [Not that the rules require that...]

I'm sorry, but Xenos deserve love too - they've been continually shafted, and it seems it doesn't matter; the Xenos playerbase is loony (holding out hope for love that'll never come, abused relationship), and the rest of the 40k playerbase is straight bad - "Oh, Xenos are fine, go cry in a corner. We're far more diverse than you, we deserve it!".

Well, yeah; it's easy to be diverse when you're the only faction GW decides to write about - hell, there's a fair about of fluff in the Xenos codecii that are written from an Imperial perspective... which itself is fine.

Feth off, Xenos deserve love too - but that would take away from you, so we'll never get it. I hope you enjoy your Guard+SM vs Traitor Guard vs Chaos SM matchups until the end of time.

What do you think would have shown up in greater number in a word association game for Rogue Trader, Xenos or Chaos? I know in my mind that I always link Rogue Traders with Xenos and having the game be against Chaos is jarring. I think it would have been far more fitting to include any other existing Xenos faction.

For instance, Ork Spaze Boyz pirates would be very appropriate right now. Orks in EOA suits (O for Orkish, of course) aren't all that original but fit with Rogue Traders better and tie into the big Ork release. Mutants would have gone better with a game for the release of the SoB.

It's like having an Indiana Jones story where he fights arms dealers. You can make it work, but considering how well the KGB and ancient aliens went over, it's probably better to just stay with classic pulp influences.

I kinda agree with the nurgle portion of the box. The fact that you have CSM that can be nurgle flavored, DG, Nurgle demons and now what ever the hell these things are supposed to be, it feels a little much. I would rather Xenos getting some love. Like Rogue Traders vs Dark Eldar or Eldar Corsairs.

fe40k wrote:
"This game is about Imperium Vs Chaos; Xenos, you should know better"
"Imperium has many more factions than Xenos; Xenos is the same through and through"

Seriously guys?

Imagine if every faction got treated like Space Marines/Imperials - EVERY Craft World/Hive Fleet/Klan/Sept/Dynasty/etc would have a different codex per subfaction.

Meanwhile, boys who are 99% IDENTICAL, minus the color of their armor, get "different" books. Woo, this one has extra plasma strategems, this one has WolfyWolfs; in this one, the guys are really mad! - It's all the same fething crap in reality; so much so, that you can paint the color of your mini a different color, and have a whole new "army"! [Not that the rules require that...]

I'm sorry, but Xenos deserve love too - they've been continually shafted, and it seems it doesn't matter; the Xenos playerbase is loony (holding out hope for love that'll never come, abused relationship), and the rest of the 40k playerbase is straight bad - "Oh, Xenos are fine, go cry in a corner. We're far more diverse than you, we deserve it!".

Well, yeah; it's easy to be diverse when you're the only faction GW decides to write about - hell, there's a fair about of fluff in the Xenos codecii that are written from an Imperial perspective... which itself is fine.

Feth off, Xenos deserve love too - but that would take away from you, so we'll never get it. I hope you enjoy your Guard+SM vs Traitor Guard vs Chaos SM matchups until the end of time.

Honestly with everyt release I get less and less sympathy for the xenos players. because everytime someone else gets something cool they whine "OMG! HOW DARE SOMEONE GET SOMETHING COOL" it's even worse because they keep insisting on painting the IoM (and Chaos) as "one army" they're not.

The IoM Doesn't deserve this stuff more or less then others, it just happens to HAVE the stuff in the background. and the IoM is also the lens through which we typically see the setting. thus any boxed game will have IoM vs something else.

 darkcloak wrote:
Where's the beef?

No, seriously where did you hear this?


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Edit. Looks like Kill Team stuff. Sky still intact, moving on.

John Blanche inspired minis? I'm in.


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On a positive downside... There is a lot GW is doing that has me "in". Going to be an expensive winter.

Look again. It's not just kill team stuff, they're releasing codex books for 40k for each of those kill teams.

The main protagonist of 40K is the Imperium and it´s antagonist is Chaos. Therefore both factions have received and will receive the most attention from GW. This also means that there will never be a Codex Blood Axes or Codex Goffs. Xenos play in this game only a supporting role. Anybody who hasn´t realized this displays a disturbing lack of knowledge.

Will I buy the RT box? Nah, I already have too many minis which lack paint. But I must confess that those flies and grubs look interesting. Such critters would suit N17 really well.

Niiru wrote:
Look again. It's not just kill team stuff, they're releasing codex books for 40k for each of those kill teams.

It's just kill team stuff as in just a couple of units that also got rules for the main game. It's not like they randomly decided to release a full blown 20 kit line of models.

I'm also all for them making more xenos stuff or updating older kits but unfortunately it's really not where the money is so they're less incentivised to do so. Because the setting has been focused around the imperium vs chaos for so long the vast majority of players play at least one of them so there's less risk in making new models. It costs roughly the same amount to make a mold for a new eldar unit as it does to make a new space marine one. It's too late to really change the focus to xenos after 30 years. They're a publicly traded company so they have to answer to shareholders. Shareholders don't care if a new eldar kit will make the community happy when a new space marine kit will sell 10 times as much for the same monetary investment.

Kill teams does make a more attractive option for them to introduce new xenos units though. Especially when paired in a box with something popular. I suspect the reason for it being nurgle paired with the rogue traders is that it makes it easier to get rogue traders past the investors. Nurgle has proven to be popular so it's much easier to resurrect a "failed" line like rogue traders when paired with something so popular. Investors will see it as failed because it was removed from the game. This opens up the possibility for more rogue trader stuff as well if the box is successful. There will be people who buy the box just for the nurgle aspect of it which will boost the popularity of the rogue trader models in the eyes of investors.

Whereas if they release a box that's necrons and tau it'll be bought by the relatively small necron and tau markets. A tau vs world eaters box, for example, would be much easier to get approval on and has a much bigger market. It'd be a great way to add a few units for one of the races allied with the tau with a lower financial risk than just releasing a stand alone supplement. It'd also let them add some new units for world eaters to either tie them over until they get their own dedicated codex or to show investors and get them wanting a world eaters codex just as much as the community.

 Strg Alt wrote:
The main protagonist of 40K is the Imperium and it´s antagonist is Chaos. Therefore both factions have received and will receive the most attention from GW. This also means that there will never be a Codex Blood Axes or Codex Goffs. Xenos play in this game only a supporting role. Anybody who hasn´t realized this displays a disturbing lack of knowledge.

Will I buy the RT box? Nah, I already have too many minis which lack paint. But I must confess that those flies and grubs look interesting. Such critters would suit N17 really well.

Whilest this is true, mainline Chaos lacks heavily in new releases: Take Havocs, CSM regulars, or the lack of a cultist set, heck even the normal CSM lord could need an update, no instead we get more nurgle, the, excuse me for the pun, allready most bloated army /god we have atm.
Additionally, could we pls see an upgrade on the lost and the damned first? Or renegades and Heretics? Or maybee some more Khornate units that are not superheavies and look ugly af? Heck even a new and improved Noise Marines kit would be something.

Nevermind the fact that most non-mono god legions lack basically everything special in terms of units and variability?
Nothing special for Iron Warriors, nothing special for Alpha Legions (not even their Agents.) Nothing special for Word bearers.
Nurgle isn't the only chaosgod and non nurgle players getting fed up at this point is pretty normal no?

Do chaos players even use CSM or havocks? From what I understand, though am not an expert on all things chaos, those units are overcosted. why get update models for stuff you will never use? People should ask for cheap cultists, obliterators or new noise marines, even new khorn berzerkers could be good for casual Alfa Legion lists.

Karol wrote:
Do chaos players even use CSM or havocks? From what I understand, though am not an expert on all things chaos, those units are overcosted. why get update models for stuff you will never use? People should ask for cheap cultists, obliterators or new noise marines, even new khorn berzerkers could be good for casual Alfa Legion lists.

I use both those things. Could honestly care less about Oblits.

Karol wrote:
Do chaos players even use CSM or havocks? From what I understand, though am not an expert on all things chaos, those units are overcosted. why get update models for stuff you will never use? People should ask for cheap cultists, obliterators or new noise marines, even new khorn berzerkers could be good for casual Alfa Legion lists.

I'd be willing to bet most CSM players use CSMs sure maybe tourny lists are running cultists but let's not pretend those make up the most common lists.
That said CSMs are something I don't see much need for a new kit (be nice sure but it's manageable) havoks would be nice, Maybe cover some bases and release a "horus heresy heavy weapons team" thats basicly a MK V devestator team with asutocannons instead of grav canons.

If it had to be chaos, I would have rather it had been something other than Nurgle. Bloated plague zombie monsters have been done to death this addition. Slaanesh and Khorne really need some love. (yes i know they are getting some kind of release soon but this seems like a missed to opportunity to update some kits rather than put out more of the same.

Mind you I'm a dirty fluff player so... I also have a wave of cultists too so...


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I would love a Havoc kit though! With autocannons yes please!

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If it had to be chaos, I would have rather it had been something other than Nurgle. Bloated plague zombie monsters have been done to death this addition. Slaanesh and Khorne really need some love. (yes i know they are getting some kind of release soon but this seems like a missed to opportunity to update some kits rather than put out more of the same.

The only thing that was "bloated plague zombie monsters" before they announced these new guys was poxwalkers one unit with no wargear options or anything.

 IronBrand wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If it had to be chaos, I would have rather it had been something other than Nurgle. Bloated plague zombie monsters have been done to death this addition. Slaanesh and Khorne really need some love. (yes i know they are getting some kind of release soon but this seems like a missed to opportunity to update some kits rather than put out more of the same.

The only thing that was "bloated plague zombie monsters" before they announced these new guys was poxwalkers one unit with no wargear options or anything.

I wonder how many of the people complaining about the nurgle stuff are even chaos players?

 Strg Alt wrote:
The main protagonist of 40K is the Imperium and it´s antagonist is Chaos. Therefore both factions have received and will receive the most attention from GW. This also means that there will never be a Codex Blood Axes or Codex Goffs. Xenos play in this game only a supporting role. Anybody who hasn´t realized this displays a disturbing lack of knowledge.

Will I buy the RT box? Nah, I already have too many minis which lack paint. But I must confess that those flies and grubs look interesting. Such critters would suit N17 really well.

Not complaining that they made a new Chaos kill team, complaining that they once again chose Nurgle to focus on, instead of going for ... basically anything else.


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 IronBrand wrote:
The only thing that was "bloated plague zombie monsters" before they announced these new guys was poxwalkers one unit with no wargear options or anything.

Plague Marines, Blightlords, Deathshroud, Plague Drones, Blightspawn, Blightbringer, Plaguebringers, Beasts of Nurgle.... they're all just "take a fairly decent model design, then add bloat and maggots, stick a sassy nurgling on top, call it a day" variations on a very narrow theme. Bloat Drones and Blight Haulers fit the same theme, but are at least fairly decently designed.

Which is fine, it's what fits nurgle, I have not problem with any of it. But Nurgle has more than enough already. This could have been a prime opportunity to release something for generic CSM, like their own version of the Assassinorium. Would have been a far, far better idea.


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BrianDavion wrote:

I wonder how many of the people complaining about the nurgle stuff are even chaos players?

Me, I'm a chaos player, and I started this thread. I'm even a fan of Nurgle and Death Guard.

So when a Nurgle/DG fan is saying "ffs why is there yet another boring set of bloated corpses littering my inbox when there could have been some far more interesting and easy options out there", then you know GW has done fethed up.

You know what - go ahead and look down upon Xenos players for wanting even a fraction of the cool toys/releases that Imperial/Chaos armies get.

Soon enough, you'll just end up with Imperial or Chaos as the two factions; and hell, Chaos is just Imperial+Warp Beasts; so it's all Imperial, all the way.

And when you look back and wonder how it got this way - you'll realize that you voted with your wallets; you wanted this.

You wanted Xenos to be a punching bag for your toys to "victory" over.

...and you'll find that, with time, there won't be any Xenos left. You kicked them all out - of the fluff, and of the game. What's the point of playing, if you never get any love? If you're always the one getting the short end of the stick?

And someone commented that this was the perfect time to bring in Xenos for RT to fight - I think it would have been a perfect time as well to bring in Eldar Corsairs/Ork Freebooters.

Hell, you could have even gone RT vs Imperial Peacekeepers - a twist on the Imperial vs Imperial; without having to bring in Chaos.

But Imperial vs Chaos is easy - just keep pumping out random bloat, quite literally.

I'll take this moment to add to my original post :

My OP was written by the cynical, pessimistic part of me. Which is a pretty big part, and is (unfortunately) often right.

However, now my cynical optimistic side wants to add something!

This -could- just be a sign of things to come. They started on the units they thought would be easy sellers, but it's possible that they plan to release a new kill-team box set every few weeks.

Eldar Corsairs would be a good/easy one. Exodites might be possible but trickier as kill team wouldn't have any room for dinos.

Freebooters would be certainly possible.

Kroot Mercs would be another.

Chaos Assassins / torturers would have been a good one, and it's a shame that we may have had the Chaos entry wasted on Nurgle. Lets hope there ends up being more.

Necrons must have something they could have, but not sure what. Same with tyranids.

But yeh, this -might- just be a sign of what is to come. We can be cautiously hopeful.

It's also just as likely that the next release will be 4 more Imperium-only assassin units or something though.

Niiru wrote:
I'll take this moment to add to my original post :

My OP was written by the cynical, pessimistic part of me. Which is a pretty big part, and is (unfortunately) often right.

However, now my cynical optimistic side wants to add something!

This -could- just be a sign of things to come. They started on the units they thought would be easy sellers, but it's possible that they plan to release a new kill-team box set every few weeks.

Eldar Corsairs would be a good/easy one. Exodites might be possible but trickier as kill team wouldn't have any room for dinos.

Freebooters would be certainly possible.

Kroot Mercs would be another.

Chaos Assassins / torturers would have been a good one, and it's a shame that we may have had the Chaos entry wasted on Nurgle. Lets hope there ends up being more.

Necrons must have something they could have, but not sure what. Same with tyranids.

But yeh, this -might- just be a sign of what is to come. We can be cautiously hopeful.

It's also just as likely that the next release will be 4 more Imperium-only assassin units or something though.

Realistically there's no need to worry about a lack of other chaos stuff yet with the size of the chaos playerbase and number of armies there will be at least one more. It'd be worth worrying if there was say a tau release in a box and it was just another variant of fire warriors for example because there's next to no chance they'd get another release. As long as kill team boxes sell there'll be new releases for it and everyone will get a turn eventually. We just have to hope things are packaged in a way that promotes sales so that there isn't a box that kills any momentum and gets ideas shelved.

Oh. Well I didn't read that far.

Meh. So it's Nurgle. Why is that a shock? Probably a ton of new DG players around now thanks to them getting into a bunch of cheap starter boxes, not to mention EZ builds. A lot of people probably looked at CSM for KT and thought it was too bland, and also that they couldn't use their sweet new DG models.

I hope they give us Zerkers a box and booklet too. I'd play that. I'd play the hell out of that and if anyone wondered why I was allying Khorne to Khorne I'd rest my chainaxe on their nose and say 'brim-ba-da-brim-brim-brim, baby'.

 IronBrand wrote:

Niiru wrote:
I'll take this moment to add to my original post :

My OP was written by the cynical, pessimistic part of me. Which is a pretty big part, and is (unfortunately) often right.

However, now my cynical optimistic side wants to add something!

This -could- just be a sign of things to come. They started on the units they thought would be easy sellers, but it's possible that they plan to release a new kill-team box set every few weeks.

Eldar Corsairs would be a good/easy one. Exodites might be possible but trickier as kill team wouldn't have any room for dinos.

Freebooters would be certainly possible.

Kroot Mercs would be another.

Chaos Assassins / torturers would have been a good one, and it's a shame that we may have had the Chaos entry wasted on Nurgle. Lets hope there ends up being more.

Necrons must have something they could have, but not sure what. Same with tyranids.

But yeh, this -might- just be a sign of what is to come. We can be cautiously hopeful.

It's also just as likely that the next release will be 4 more Imperium-only assassin units or something though.

Realistically there's no need to worry about a lack of other chaos stuff yet with the size of the chaos playerbase and number of armies there will be at least one more. It'd be worth worrying if there was say a tau release in a box and it was just another variant of fire warriors for example because there's next to no chance they'd get another release. As long as kill team boxes sell there'll be new releases for it and everyone will get a turn eventually. We just have to hope things are packaged in a way that promotes sales so that there isn't a box that kills any momentum and gets ideas shelved.

Isn't there an upcoming Slaanish vs Khorne game?

I have no xenos models and even I think xenos players desperately need some model love. It is coming, though, at least for orks. I wouldn't doubt we'd see some better eldar next year as well.

I would play Tau if they had some kind of cool melee suit. I like their asthetic. Gunline style play seems incredibly boring to me though.

And regarding people complaining about space Marines having too many codexes: I agree!