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 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Maybe they could get Christian Bale to step in as Bats.

Why would you even want this? Besides Bale disliking the character of Batman and having no respect for the source material he has been the WORST batman on film. Bales Batman is a fething idiot. Every bad guy in every movie had to explain the plot of the movie to him at the end because Bales "Worlds greatest detective" could never figure out wtf was going on.

Agreed - he was very poor as Bruce Wayne and being able to do the batman voice is something pretty much everyone can do and often does in my experience

Holy Mandela Effect. In the nerdverse where I originated, Batman Begins and its follow on movies were hailed as the best Batman movies evah!

Semi-on-topic: What is this forum's thought on Affleck as Batman? Sounds like he's out and that people didn't like him as Bats.
Maybe not as bad as his DD portrayal hated but seems like he wasn't generally liked in the role.

He was good in the role.

Much like superman snyder wrote him poorly. He killed so many people and had so many guns. But if you got rid of the murder he looked and acted really good as bruce and bats. He did the detective bit well. Hes the first to really get the seething anger that hes got boiling inside him.

Actor good. Writing/directing as bas as its been.

Batmurder was pretty much the lowest point of Batman representation ever filmed.



I still say nobody has managed to get every aspect of Batman right except for Batman: TAS.

I think Zack Snyder is pretty good at casting actors for roles, like Henry Caville. And some of his movies are favorites of mine; such as Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen. Ben Affleck was good as a burned out/Dark Knight Returns style Batman. It was the writing and directing that was bad. If Snyder would put as much effort into the scripts he used as he did in to the crotch shots of the Gal Gadot maybe the DC Murderverse would be in a better place.

Christian Bale did the brooding victim of psychological damage Bruce/Batman very well. Although the voice was silly. Unfortunately the writing was the weak link in several parts. Particularly anytime Batman had to be smart, he failed. Even Superfriend's Batman would have figured out that was Thalia before she literally stabbed him in the back. That stupid look on his face made me give up on the whole trilogy. I can't watch any of them without being overtly critical of them now. I guess the Dark Knight Rises is my Last Jedi.

Michael Keaton is my favorite movie Batman.

Adam West is my Batman. Unfortunately, it was losing him that made me realize it.

And Kevin Conroy is the definitive Batman

Gotham by Gaslight has the best batman so far. Animated series is right behind it.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
...
And Kevin Conroy is the definitive Batman

I can agree with that. I associate his voice so much with the character that it's almost painful to hear anyone else try to voice act Batman.

But I also think that Tim Daly did an awesome Superman and associate his voice with the character a lot, too.

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Maybe they could get Christian Bale to step in as Bats.

Why would you even want this? Besides Bale disliking the character of Batman and having no respect for the source material he has been the WORST batman on film. Bales Batman is a fething idiot. Every bad guy in every movie had to explain the plot of the movie to him at the end because Bales "Worlds greatest detective" could never figure out wtf was going on.

Agreed - he was very poor as Bruce Wayne and being able to do the batman voice is something pretty much everyone can do and often does in my experience

Holy Mandela Effect. In the nerdverse where I originated, Batman Begins and its follow on movies were hailed as the best Batman movies evah!

Semi-on-topic: What is this forum's thought on Affleck as Batman? Sounds like he's out and that people didn't like him as Bats.
Maybe not as bad as his DD portrayal hated but seems like he wasn't generally liked in the role.

Not by me they were not. Begins is over long and has an awful white guy becomes super ninja over night sequence. Batmobile was good, Scarecrow was great - the whole stupid Chaos Ninja's plot was awful. The films go downhill from there.

Affleck as Angry Batman was great - let down by the Duirector/writers - often the way.

My fav Batman was Michael Keaton - although Lego comes a close second

 Mr Morden wrote:
Begins is over long and has an awful white guy becomes super ninja over night sequence.

While I would agree Bruce Wayne is unquestionably white, in the version of Batman Begins I saw he was gone for a long time, almost a decade, and was already a martial artist when he began training with the League of Shadows.

Also Bale was a great Batman and a pretty awful Bruce Wayne imo.

 Lance845 wrote:
He was good in the role.

Much like superman snyder wrote him poorly. He killed so many people and had so many guns. But if you got rid of the murder he looked and acted really good as bruce and bats. He did the detective bit well. Hes the first to really get the seething anger that hes got boiling inside him.

Actor good. Writing/directing as bas as its been.

So regarding killing...I admit that even I threw up my hands when Snyder recently declared (on social media) that the dead Robin in the Batcave was intended to be Dick Grayson (although it was never actually established in the movie). WTF? The point of building a cinematic universe is to open up possibilities, not repeatedly close them by offing everyone in sight.

But soon after that reveal, Snyder confirmed that what he was building was a 4 or 5 movie story(!) -- with some side films that interfaced. It was never going to be like the MCU. So I think the overall arc becomes pretty clear.

After MoS, WB -- lacking a vision of their own -- handed a giant blank check and all kinds of power to Zack Snyder to build them some connected DC films. Snyder went off feeling fully empowered to build his dark, Injustice-inspired story. Then when the studio finally (around the time of BvS's release) understood what Snyder was building for them and how it really didn't fit their needs (and wasn't connecting with audiences)...a whole lot of buyer's remorse kicked in. The studio got involved and the rest is history.

Anyway, I thought Batfleck was solid in the role, but it's important to note that he's in his 40s. That didn't matter to Snyder because he wasn't building a new Batman franchise. But the studio's interested in that, and so recasting the role just makes sense all around now that they're heading that way under Matt Reeves.

I’m kinda sad to see him go tbh. There was never anything wrong with the casting of the DC movies imo. Just the writing, directing, visuals...everything else really. Even Eisenberg Luther had potential.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I’m kinda sad to see him go tbh. There was never anything wrong with the casting of the DC movies imo. Just the writing, directing, visuals...everything else really. Even Eisenberg Luther had potential.

Agree with everything apart from the last element - he was pure gak.

Ok, I got carried away there.

I liked Cavil as Supes, well, I liked the potential he had to be a good supes. You saw glimpses of it, if he is gone thats a shame.

Batfleck has been my favorite live action Batman and Bruce Wayne, he played both persona's very well. While he will never top the best Batman, Conroy, he is good and I would like to see more of him in the role as older Bats.

Ideally if Alfeck is leaving they would set up Dick Greyson and just have him take over as Bats for the DCEU.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I liked Cavil as Supes, well, I liked the potential he had to be a good supes. You saw glimpses of it, if he is gone thats a shame.

Batfleck has been my favorite live action Batman and Bruce Wayne, he played both persona's very well. While he will never top the best Batman, Conroy, he is good and I would like to see more of him in the role as older Bats.

Ideally if Alfeck is leaving they would set up Dick Greyson and just have him take over as Bats for the DCEU.

Other than the ongoing mutiple car crash that was Eisenberg's terrible portayal of Luther I am not sure any of the DC roles have been miscast.

Batman -Angry Batman worked for me - he kills people, meh - so did Keaton's
Wonder Woman - great choice, pretty much flawless
Superman - no issues with him at all, seemed to work well and the ladies I know were certainly impressed.
Flash - again all good.
Aquaman - all good
Cyborg - all good

Deadshot - Its Will Smith - if you like him (I do) all good.
Harley - Margot was ace.

Even Carla Delevegne was fine at first - if they had given her something to do after the first half other than undulate......

its not the cast thats the problem.

Affleck being out as Batman is pretty amazing news. He was easily the worst so far. Bad acting and bad scripts. Snyder shouldn't be allowed to touch DC Material anymore.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Christian Bale did the brooding victim of psychological damage Bruce/Batman very well. Although the voice was silly. Unfortunately the writing was the weak link in several parts. Particularly anytime Batman had to be smart, he failed. Even Superfriend's Batman would have figured out that was Thalia before she literally stabbed him in the back. That stupid look on his face made me give up on the whole trilogy. I can't watch any of them without being overtly critical of them now. I guess the Dark Knight Rises is my Last Jedi.

In the Nolan Batman, at what point in Bruce's life would he have gone through the training to be a great detective and how would that have fit in with a backstory for him? Or when did he have the opportunity to get an education?

Really they played him well with the backstory they gave him. He was a man. Not a superguy who had super detective superabilities.

Batman without his brain or ethics, and who kills is just the Punisher with more toys.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Batman without his brain or ethics, and who kills is just the Punisher with more toys.

Sure, I mean that oversimplifies a lot of the Punishes and throws out every other important thing about Batman. But if you hammer it hard enough, the circle will fit in the square.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Ideally if Alfeck is leaving they would set up Dick Greyson and just have him take over as Bats for the DCEU.

Nah, they're just going to reboot it with a new actor. From what I've read, the DC universe will be only loosely connected going forward, and there will be "Elseworlds" type projects like the J. Phoenix Joker movie. That's probably why "The Worlds of DC" seems to be the new operating title for the DCEU.

Regarding continuity, consider this. It was established in BvS and JL that WW went into hiding for decades, right? And yet WW 1984 is almost certainly going to show her operating in public in the '80s. Going forward, each filmmaker will probably be empowered to ignore whatever they want from the Snyderverse era.

FWIW on the Dick Grayson front, director Chris McKay is attached to Nightwing, although it could be years before it moves forward (if at all). Supposedly Lewis Tan (Deadpool 2, Into the Badlands, Iron Fist, etc.) met with WB and Nightwing came up.

That's probably why "The Worlds of DC" seems to be the new operating title for the DCEU.

So, WB is admitting that their attempt at a cinematic DC universe is a failure then?

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Affleck being out as Batman is pretty amazing news. He was easily the worst so far. Bad acting and bad scripts. Snyder shouldn't be allowed to touch DC Material anymore.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Christian Bale did the brooding victim of psychological damage Bruce/Batman very well. Although the voice was silly. Unfortunately the writing was the weak link in several parts. Particularly anytime Batman had to be smart, he failed. Even Superfriend's Batman would have figured out that was Thalia before she literally stabbed him in the back. That stupid look on his face made me give up on the whole trilogy. I can't watch any of them without being overtly critical of them now. I guess the Dark Knight Rises is my Last Jedi.

In the Nolan Batman, at what point in Bruce's life would he have gone through the training to be a great detective and how would that have fit in with a backstory for him? Or when did he have the opportunity to get an education?

Really they played him well with the backstory they gave him. He was a man. Not a superguy who had super detective superabilities.

Nolan really didn;t think that much about it - he just went with oh look white guy goes to Tibet and becomes the bestest super ninja ever cos reasons.

I don't recall us seeing much about his life between his parents dying just gets raised by Alfred - isnt there a time jump. I assume he stil had an education given the vast resources there.

Batman without his brain or ethics, and who kills is just the Punisher with more toys

Batman who kills is just a different Batman - see Elseworlds - Keatons Batman kills .

 Easy E wrote:

That's probably why "The Worlds of DC" seems to be the new operating title for the DCEU.

So, WB is admitting that their attempt at a cinematic DC universe is a failure then?

The recent revelation from Zack Snyder was that he was building a contained story, not a universe that would continue indefinitely like Marvel. So yes? No? I think it means that whatever it was before, it’s different now. It’s definitely not going to have tight continuity. And I think that will work better for them. They aren’t a ‘master control’ kind of studio.

Which is probably for the best. They’ve lost the super hero movie war with marvel so trying to compete evenly is probably a bad idea.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Affleck being out as Batman is pretty amazing news. He was easily the worst so far. Bad acting and bad scripts. Snyder shouldn't be allowed to touch DC Material anymore.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Christian Bale did the brooding victim of psychological damage Bruce/Batman very well. Although the voice was silly. Unfortunately the writing was the weak link in several parts. Particularly anytime Batman had to be smart, he failed. Even Superfriend's Batman would have figured out that was Thalia before she literally stabbed him in the back. That stupid look on his face made me give up on the whole trilogy. I can't watch any of them without being overtly critical of them now. I guess the Dark Knight Rises is my Last Jedi.

In the Nolan Batman, at what point in Bruce's life would he have gone through the training to be a great detective and how would that have fit in with a backstory for him? Or when did he have the opportunity to get an education?

Really they played him well with the backstory they gave him. He was a man. Not a superguy who had super detective superabilities.

Nolan really didn;t think that much about it - he just went with oh look white guy goes to Tibet and becomes the bestest super ninja ever cos reasons.

I don't recall us seeing much about his life between his parents dying just gets raised by Alfred - isnt there a time jump. I assume he stil had an education given the vast resources there.

Batman without his brain or ethics, and who kills is just the Punisher with more toys

Batman who kills is just a different Batman - see Elseworlds - Keatons Batman kills .

There is a time jump but I think it is brought up in the movies that he goes "missing" pretty early on in his adulthood. Which is basically when he becomes the super ninja. Nolanverse Batman is not a super detective. Nolanverse Batman is a ninja with gadgets and its about 1000x better and more believable than super plot armor detective batman.

Yes, when I go to a Batman movie my primary concern is if it will be believable.







(I was lying. However, I felt that was better than asking what part of the Nolan trilogy was believable. That microwave emitter plot was up there with dehydrating the UN Security Council on the reality-o-meter.)

 Dreadwinter wrote:

There is a time jump but I think it is brought up in the movies that he goes "missing" pretty early on in his adulthood. Which is basically when he becomes the super ninja. Nolanverse Batman is not a super detective. Nolanverse Batman is a ninja with gadgets and its about 1000x better and more believable than super plot armor detective batman.

You can like whatever you like and feel however you want to feel.

But this is dead wrong.

Batman being a detective is his whole thing. Maybe you are unaware, but Batmans comic since his first appearance wasn't called "Batman". It was called "Detective Comics". Batman not being a detective is like Superman not being a Kryptonian.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yes, when I go to a Batman movie my primary concern is if it will be believable.







(I was lying. However, I felt that was better than asking what part of the Nolan trilogy was believable. That microwave emitter plot was up there with dehydrating the UN Security Council on the reality-o-meter.)

Well, when you go to a Batman movie you should be more interested in a believable character. Remember how they always bring up that Batman has no superpowers and he is just a human. The things he does should be believable.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

There is a time jump but I think it is brought up in the movies that he goes "missing" pretty early on in his adulthood. Which is basically when he becomes the super ninja. Nolanverse Batman is not a super detective. Nolanverse Batman is a ninja with gadgets and its about 1000x better and more believable than super plot armor detective batman.

You can like whatever you like and feel however you want to feel.

But this is dead wrong.

Batman being a detective is his whole thing. Maybe you are unaware, but Batmans comic since his first appearance wasn't called "Batman". It was called "Detective Comics". Batman not being a detective is like Superman not being a Kryptonian.

Sure, yeah. Batman not being a detective is exactly the same as Superman not being from a dying planet that gives him his iconic superpowers and backstory. Maybe you are unaware, but professions and origins are really really different things.

Yes. They are the same thing. Superman not being an alien that gives him his iconic superpowers and backstory is exactly the same as Batman not being a detective which gives him his iconic crime fighting methodology, stories, and background.

Those are exactly the same.

Thats not sarcasm though I realize you might be reading it that way. What I am saying is literally those words. Batman not being a detective makes him not batman. It's a different character. If hes not a detective then there is no reason for it to be a batman movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, the Nolan movies started with Ra's Al Gul. A villian who calls Batman...

(Watch from the 1 minute mark)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yes, when I go to a Batman movie my primary concern is if it will be believable.

I think the funnest part of those movies is taking an outlandish situation, like Batman, and then managing to sell it well enough that you can actually suspend disbelief.

Also, unpopular opinion but I thought Ben Affleck was pretty solid as Batman.

Well, my favorite Batman movie is still Batman: The Movie, so yeah, believability really isn't a factor for me.


And I also really liked Ben Affleck in BVS. I still haven't seen JL.

 Lance845 wrote:
Yes. They are the same thing. Superman not being an alien that gives him his iconic superpowers and backstory is exactly the same as Batman not being a detective which gives him his iconic crime fighting methodology, stories, and background.

Those are exactly the same.

Thats not sarcasm though I realize you might be reading it that way. What I am saying is literally those words. Batman not being a detective makes him not batman. It's a different character. If hes not a detective then there is no reason for it to be a batman movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, the Nolan movies started with Ra's Al Gul. A villian who calls Batman...

(Watch from the 1 minute mark)

The Batman equivalent would be changing his parents deaths or what the Waynes are, not that he is a detective.

One assumes any crime fighter is a detective in some way. Hell, the Punisher is a bit of a detective. Big woop.