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 Hawky wrote:
I really dislike when opponents play with dice that has symbols. Is the symbol a 6? or 1? Another thing I need to focus on during the game.

I even dislike when people use multi-colored dice. Like when a single dice has several colors mixed in. Clear, transparent dice are the same. Pips are hard to read from some angles.

Well vs me it's easy. All symbol's are 6's. Simple as that. I have no dice with symbol on 1 precisely to avoid that issue! If I somehow get dice with symbol on 1 I will crush it to pieces and throw remains to garbage bin to ensure they don't come to mess with my games!

Guess I could live with all symbols are 1's but 6's are lot more common(it's more fun to go "yeah" when you roll your faction symbol than "bleh" and as GW games are generally roll high...) all symbols are 6's is how I do it. Plus regular pip's as well. I have big pile of dices even after giving up whole bunch(if there's any doubt did our dices get messed opponent gets more than enough dices to ensure he doesn't lose. I have enough dices that I do it this way).

 Genoside07 wrote:
I seen problems with fast rolling and pick up with basic dice... so adding a different die face to this makes it worse.

If they are quick rolling and not letting you verify, I won't accept the roll under tournament conditions. I'd call a judge and demand he re-roll of any dice touched before verifying.

Dice etiquette demands that players roll the dice openly, and allow their opponent to verify the result. If the result is not agreeable for any reason, a tournament referee can be consulted. That's what they're there for.

If a player consistently fast rolls and denies verification (e.g. pulling "successes"), they are cheats, and should be treated as such.

OTOH, under non-tournament conditions, I'll make a verbal note and then cheat as hard and as blatantly as possible, explaining that I understand they play a "loose" game. I've played cheats and know most of their tricks. If they complain, then I'll ask if they want to play by the book.

What I won't do is let my opponent play "loose" under tournament conditions.

But none of that is a dice problem.

It's a player problem.

 Genoside07 wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
No symbols on dice, period. I want dice rolls to be clear and quick to interpret.

I agree with this.. But I think it has to do a lot with where you are playing.. If it's a friendly basement game, its not a big deal. But in a tournament I don't want to be wondering
if the weird symbol is a 6 or a 1. I love the squig dice.. don't plan to buy them but would tell someone to use other dice if I was playing in a game with prize support.
Not all people are nice and will take advantage of the confusion from not being able to translate the dice.

But with games like FFG Star Wars RPG, everyone uses the same dice that only has symbols, there is no problem with this.. I think its more of the quick reading of the dice
because I seen problems with fast rolling and pick up with basic dice... so adding a different die face to this makes it worse.

So you are having opposition even to the idea of all symbols are 1/6 consistently idea? Presumably because you are worried in competive enviroment somebody could try to use dice that has symbol on 1 and pips on 6(along with other dices with pip on 1) and that he would be cheating with having better chance of getting 6 by having both symbol(all symbols are 6) and 6 in pips? Seems...complicated and easy to be caught cheat. Hard to see that being issue on real competive tournament. Slightly weighed dices would seem to be more likely and harder way to cheat.

Thank god no need to worry about anything like that here. Lucky!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
I seen problems with fast rolling and pick up with basic dice... so adding a different die face to this makes it worse.

If they are quick rolling and not letting you verify, I won't accept the roll under tournament conditions. I'd call a judge and demand he re-roll of any dice touched before verifying.

Dice etiquette demands that players roll the dice openly, and allow their opponent to verify the result. If the result is not agreeable for any reason, a tournament referee can be consulted. That's what they're there for.

If a player consistently fast rolls and denies verification (e.g. pulling "successes"), they are cheats, and should be treated as such.

OTOH, under non-tournament conditions, I'll make a verbal note and then cheat as hard and as blatantly as possible, explaining that I understand they play a "loose" game. I've played cheats and know most of their tricks. If they complain, then I'll ask if they want to play by the book.

What I won't do is let my opponent play "loose" under tournament conditions.

But none of that is a dice problem.

It's a player problem.

Good thing I don't have to play with you. Would just slowing game down without actually removing any cheating from game.

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
I seen problems with fast rolling and pick up with basic dice... so adding a different die face to this makes it worse.

If they are quick rolling and not letting you verify, I won't accept the roll under tournament conditions. I'd call a judge and demand he re-roll of any dice touched before verifying.

Dice etiquette demands that players roll the dice openly, and allow their opponent to verify the result. If the result is not agreeable for any reason, a tournament referee can be consulted. That's what they're there for.

If a player consistently fast rolls and denies verification (e.g. pulling "successes"), they are cheats, and should be treated as such.

OTOH, under non-tournament conditions, I'll make a verbal note and then cheat as hard and as blatantly as possible, explaining that I understand they play a "loose" game. I've played cheats and know most of their tricks. If they complain, then I'll ask if they want to play by the book.

What I won't do is let my opponent play "loose" under tournament conditions.

But none of that is a dice problem.

It's a player problem.

Good thing I don't have to play with you. Would just slowing game down without actually removing any cheating from game.

Thanks for identifying yourself as part of the problem in that donkey-cave reply.

I particularly love the dice that use roman numbers

I, II, III, IV, V, VI.

One of my friends was using his ultamarines blue dice with those symbols in our battletech game. No one new what the heck he rolled, including him.

K.I.S.S. I hate symbols, you never know if they are 1's or 6's

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

If a player consistently fast rolls and denies verification (e.g. pulling "successes"), they are cheats, and should be treated as such.

It's an aside from the topic at hand, but when it comes to verification, I prefer to pull "failures" instead. Pulling "sucess" leaves the chance to nab a few extra dice.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I particularly love the dice that use roman numbers

I, II, III, IV, V, VI.

Gangs of Rome fighter packs each come with a singel Roman numeral die. It also has the added benefit of being a scatter die for Mobs when they move around the table (they only move on a IV, V, or VI and follow the direction of the V).

I played a team-game of 40k last year in a small doubles-tournament where one player in the opposing team had dice that had skulls in the places of 6s, and the other player had dice that had skulls in the places of 1s. Surprisingly straightforward game.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
No symbols on dice, period. I want dice rolls to be clear and quick to interpret.

OK, 6 blank faces is pretty clear and quick, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

The fun part is I'll bet literally everyone else here understood what he meant just fine.

Be different, put symbols on the side representing a "2"

prefer the symbol on a six, so with success not failure, but can live with it either way

what I personally hate is the GW ones with a symbol on the six and a skull (another symbol) on the one

well that and dice with "pretty marbled" colours and low contrast colours for the dots

I don't get the obsession with symbol on 6, having it on 1 is objectively far superior from both game perspective (when you have common reroll to 1s thing, both you and your opponent can instantly see which ones you can pick up and reroll, while reroll 6s almost never happens) and fairness angle (seeing, as noted, having symbol on 1s makes weight distribution much more even and die closer to random, while big symbol on 6 and one tiny pip on 1 is something you pick when you want to cheat by skewing results toward more high rolls as then heavier 1s tend to land on the bottom or sides). Hell, even from aesthetic perspective, having more even dice sides (as opposed to ugly, eye-poking single pips) is a plus, even without considering the above...

 Vulcan wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
No symbols on dice, period. I want dice rolls to be clear and quick to interpret.

OK, 6 blank faces is pretty clear and quick, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

The fun part is I'll bet literally everyone else here understood what he meant just fine.

Oh, everyone here understood what he meant, but he made an unclear comment about wanting to be clear, which is the exact analogue for everyone here understanding that symbol = 6. If he can expect others to understand his unclear comment, then others can expect him to understand symbol = 6.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
No symbols on dice, period. I want dice rolls to be clear and quick to interpret.

OK, 6 blank faces is pretty clear and quick, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

The fun part is I'll bet literally everyone else here understood what he meant just fine.

Oh, everyone here understood what he meant, but he made an unclear comment about wanting to be clear, which is the exact analogue for everyone here understanding that symbol = 6. If he can expect others to understand his unclear comment, then others can expect him to understand symbol = 6.

If everyone including you understood what he meant, then there was no need for your initial post.

 Vulcan wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
No symbols on dice, period. I want dice rolls to be clear and quick to interpret.

OK, 6 blank faces is pretty clear and quick, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

The fun part is I'll bet literally everyone else here understood what he meant just fine.

Oh, everyone here understood what he meant, but he made an unclear comment about wanting to be clear, which is the exact analogue for everyone here understanding that symbol = 6. If he can expect others to understand his unclear comment, then others can expect him to understand symbol = 6.

If everyone including you understood what he meant, then there was no need for your initial post.

Wow, it's like you failed Reading, so I will repeat myself...

If he can expect others to understand his unclear comment, then others can expect him to understand symbol = 6.

With so many different finishes you can have on dices these days there is no need to change the pips for symbols.

I love dices of all sorts though

 Irbis wrote:
I don't get the obsession with symbol on 6, having it on 1 is objectively far superior from both game perspective (when you have common reroll to 1s thing, both you and your opponent can instantly see which ones you can pick up and reroll, while reroll 6s almost never happens) and fairness angle (seeing, as noted, having symbol on 1s makes weight distribution much more even and die closer to random, while big symbol on 6 and one tiny pip on 1 is something you pick when you want to cheat by skewing results toward more high rolls as then heavier 1s tend to land on the bottom or sides). Hell, even from aesthetic perspective, having more even dice sides (as opposed to ugly, eye-poking single pips) is a plus, even without considering the above...

Personally, and I can only assume probably for other people, it's also an aesthetic choice. If I've bought dice with symbols on them, it's probably because I think the symbols are interesting. And since most d6 games use high rolls, I want the symbol to come up when I roll a six (thus symbol=good), instead of seeing a symbol and thinking, "Oh crap, a fail."

 Genoside07 wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
No symbols on dice, period. I want dice rolls to be clear and quick to interpret.

I agree with this.. But I think it has to do a lot with where you are playing.. If it's a friendly basement game, its not a big deal. But in a tournament I don't want to be wondering
if the weird symbol is a 6 or a 1. I love the squig dice.. don't plan to buy them but would tell someone to use other dice if I was playing in a game with prize support.
Not all people are nice and will take advantage of the confusion from not being able to translate the dice.

But with games like FFG Star Wars RPG, everyone uses the same dice that only has symbols, there is no problem with this.. I think its more of the quick reading of the dice
because I seen problems with fast rolling and pick up with basic dice... so adding a different die face to this makes it worse.

Some really competetive tournaments (with prizes) hand out dice with symbols as a welcoming gift. In Games like Blood Bowl, all dice have symbols on 6s. And then there's the block dice, which only has symbols on all sides (no numbers or pips).

I actually like the Nurgle and Squig dice, but I'm not very competetive.

What I really like (if done correctly with symbols on the 6s only) are all the new faction/team dice for games like Necromunda and Blood Bowl. Excellent for a personal theme extending beyond you rminis.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
I’ll field this one. He means, “No symbols other than clear indications of a number one through six. An Aquila, for example, is not a clear indication of a 6. It is an Aquila, representing a fictional two headed bird. Not a number.”

No, he's a big boy and can speak for himself.

Whether he means that or not, it wasn't clear.

You know, I originally was going to include an aside that said "except for pips or numbers" but figured that was implicit and therefore unnecessary. After all, a die requires some sort of marking, otherwise it's just (usually) a platonic solid, not a die.

So give me clear numbers on all faces, either through actual numbers or a number of clearly marked pips. To be further clear, if a game requires special dice with special symbols, like the now defunct scatter die, that's fine, but if the purpose of said dice is to give a numerical value, put numbers on the faces and make it easy for everyone, m'kay?

 John Prins wrote:

You know, I originally was going to include an aside that said "except for pips or numbers" but figured that was implicit and therefore unnecessary. After all, a die requires some sort of marking, otherwise it's just (usually) a platonic solid, not a die.

So give me clear numbers on all faces, either through actual numbers or a number of clearly marked pips. To be further clear, if a game requires special dice with special symbols, like the now defunct scatter die, that's fine, but if the purpose of said dice is to give a numerical value, put numbers on the faces and make it easy for everyone, m'kay?

Don't worry about it. Literally everyone understood what you meant as it wasn't even remotely ambiguous, and only the most fastidiously churlish type of person would claim otherwise.

Well, there are GW dice with symbols on 1 and 6.
I find this confusing and annoying.

If they're my dice, then I know them well enough to know whether something that isn't pips represents a 1 or a 6.

If they're my opponent's dice, I'm probably not even looking at them anyway. If I can't trust someone to read their own dice accurately and tell me the result honestly, then I won't play that person.

In a serious tournament, maybe the TO should be providing standardised dice for everyone? The risk of someone using actual weighted dice is probably higher than that of someone cheating by selectively misreading their weird symbol dice.

Lotr sbg dice, and some the now oop fw dice, are perfection. Other parts of GW studio should learn from them.

 Rygnan wrote:
Symbols on the 6 (as they should be)

Why? The location of the symbol face is purely aesthetic, so I can't see how you could claim it "should" be anywhere.

Well, I suppose you could say it "should" be on the 1 face as that makes for a less uneven mass distribution, but the effect will be minimal.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Rygnan wrote:
Symbols on the 6 (as they should be)

Why? The location of the symbol face is purely aesthetic, so I can't see how you could claim it "should" be anywhere.

Well, I suppose you could say it "should" be on the 1 face as that makes for a less uneven mass distribution, but the effect will be minimal.

In most circumstances the 6 is the best roll you can achieve, so having it on the 6 means your symbol is your best result. That way having the symbol you bought the dice for is a good thing to see, not "oh look my symbol, that sucks". I just think it should be a source of pride to see it appear, that's independent of weighting and even distribution (although smart companies will compensate for this in their dice). That said, there are examples for "roll under" situations which are usually outliers - games based around this should have symbols on the 1 like Infinity in my opinion

It's just me being a pedant for thematic reasons is all, I hardly think it should be taken as gospel

You want to roll low for Battleshock, don't you? Save the faction dice with the symbol on the 1 for those rolls.

Are we suggesting we need an ISO dice standard now then?

At one point, I had some GW dice that had the Imperial Eagle symbol on the 1 face and then got my first batch of Dakka Dice with the symbol on the 6 face.

 filbert wrote:
Are we suggesting we need an ISO dice standard now then?

At one point, I had some GW dice that had the Imperial Eagle symbol on the 1 face and then got my first batch of Dakka Dice with the symbol on the 6 face.

Maybe Games-Workshop should just stop including dice in their games altogether and just include a copy of this instead.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
You want to roll low for Battleshock, don't you? Save the faction dice with the symbol on the 1 for those rolls.

As I said, there are some cases that are outliers, leadership/battleshock being the big one. But even in those games you want 6s for things like bonus attacks, mortal wounds or extra damage so in general it's better to roll high in more cases than it is to roll low. I would have separate dice for this purpose, with symbols on the 1, but that's getting into the realm of getting accused of loading dice so I wouldn't on principle (and for opponent's clarity)

When I have pile of 50+ dice to use having separate dices for separate things is bit too messy. I need all the dice I have and then some more(limited more by size of my hands) so no time for separate dices. All dices needed to roll the 100+ dice!

tneva82 wrote:
When I have pile of 50+ dice to use having separate dices for separate things is bit too messy. I need all the dice I have and then some more(limited more by size of my hands) so no time for separate dices. All dices needed to roll the 100+ dice!

Sweet star child, man! I know fistfuls of dice can be satisfying, but when one approaches 100 or even 50 dice, it's really time to use an app!

Also, can we all agree that Games-Workshop's habit of referring to a singular die as a "dice," is part of the reason this has become acceptable common usage, and is unforgivable? Also, codexes? No! Codices!

 Ginjitzu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
When I have pile of 50+ dice to use having separate dices for separate things is bit too messy. I need all the dice I have and then some more(limited more by size of my hands) so no time for separate dices. All dices needed to roll the 100+ dice!

Sweet star child, man! I know fistfuls of dice can be satisfying, but when one approaches 100 or even 50 dice, it's really time to use an app!

Also, can we all agree that Games-Workshop's habit of referring to a singular die as a "dice," is part of the reason this has become acceptable common usage, and is unforgivable? Also, codexes? No! Codices!

I use app when opponent allows but not all allow. Not that surprising seeing it's fairly trivial to do fake one that's even better than loaded dices.