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Towards the end of 7th, I was ready to sell off and try something new. I had catalogued my minis, was planning to bail.

But 8th was fresh again. My buddies all were on board for playing again. I was on board for playing again. 7th was pure poison for me. I hated it.

I'm not saying I love 40k like I used to, we're platonic these days. And the ever growing supplements are starting to wear me down again. Feels like were falling into bad habits again, but I'm not ready to leave yet.

Besides myself, there are at least 10-15 new players @ my flgs that have come back due to 8th. Ca18 terrain & city fight rules fixed my problems with cover/concealment.

Prior to 8th the last time I did anything 40k related was 1993.

I live in one of the most remote parts of the UK, Hell we've just got DVD players.... :p

And 40k has kicked off massively recently. We have a flood of new players into our FLGS and even have a large facebook community that's sprug up recently with a few FLGS having regular tourny's around each other to not have any clashes.

We've had a few old school players come back who last played in 2nd/3rd as they are liking the new 8th rules.

My 7 year old has inherited my Black Templar army and loves to paint and play Kill Team or small 40k games. And apparently quite a few kids in his school all talk about it! So even the younglings are loving it!

I think a lot of it is to do with the various Computer games out there now, hell even myself was tempted into tabletop after playing the original Dawn of War games.

Localy it can be dead as dead can be, but world wide it seems to do fine. I don't have a comperation to how it was in the past though. What I did notice is that w40k and AoS get a lot fewer new players, the other games and least localy.

The WWII historicals, xwing and infinity have a steady influx of people joining and leaving. With w40k it is 20 plus people that played since before I was born probably, adn 3-5 new people. AoS is the same 7 people playing the game over and over again. 9th age ain't GW, but it is the same even if it has more people playing it.

No idea why it is like that. When infinity had some sort of event a few months ago it had 14 people play new armies and most of them were new players. when w40k at my store has a noob tournament, it is 2-3 noobs and 20 vets. Makes the learning curve very steep .

Worldwide, it's going strong.

Locally?
Most of us shifted to 30k and AoS.
May seem weird, but the transition from old hammer to AoS was fine for me (though I still don't like what they did)
But for some reason I can't get into the new 40k.
Had upwards of 30+ games and just don't like the feel of it.

Now titanicus is running too, 40k is a rare thing here.
Last models I purchased were simply for parts for my 30k armies.

no. Locally for me the scene is thriving.

 Nerak wrote:
no. Locally for me the scene is thriving.

Hur är läget för Warhammer i Sverige? Jag bor i norra Västergötland, och det är okay-många som spelar här.

For those of you who are non-Swedish speakers (readers): How is the situation for Warhammer in Sweden? I live Västergötand, and there's an okay amount of players here.

i live in a city of maybe 50,000 residents and we have 1 official warhammer store, and at least 4 tabletop gaming stores that sell warhammer which is by far their biggest seller and takes up the most shop space. A couple also run tournaments. It used to be just the official store for years until 8th came out. And as others have said, GW shares have tripled in value since 8th, and i heard they are at their most profitable for a long long time !

Well in North America it is doing well.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/42621/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2018

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Fall 2018

1 Warhammer 40K Games Workshop

2 Age of Sigmar Games Workshop

3 D&D Nolzur's Marvelous Minis WizKids

4 Star Wars X-Wing Fantasy Flight Games

5 Star Wars Legion Fantasy Flight Games

Personally I am amazed at age of sigmar. That game holds zero attraction for me. How can I be different from the market?!

Forums ARE generally doing badly a present, but that's mostly because of how technology and social media has changed.

More people now are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc.. type sites which are ideally suited to short fast posting from mobile devices like phones and tablets. Meanwhile forums have taken a heavy back seat, even big sites are far less active than they were 5 or 10 years ago and recruitment and retention of members is a lot harder than it once was. Dakka is actually doing really well at present I would say.

People are surfing the net on their phones and tablets and less on their PC (heck my brother and his wife are fully online and don't own a PC in the house - its all tablets).

I'd also argue that forums just never had to advertise themselves before besides ranking well on google; now people hope into Facebook and search groups on there.






As for 40K and GW in general its honestly going through a second golden age or the fast build up to one (depending on your point of view). Sales are so high that GW has had to build a whole new factory at their Knottingham HQ in order to cope. That required buying land and building a new factory and wil require hiring new staff all at UK rates - so that's all very significant investment.
Heck this Christmas GW topped the UK Shareholder charts - for a short while its growth was astounding.

At least where I am (north of boston) it is going on much stronger than it was in 7th ed. We regularly have new faces showing up where we play and when we hold events 20-30 people turn up to pack the store we play at. We're basically at capacity most weeks, it's great.

Surge in players may be down to stuff like Kill Team too.

Cheaper ways to get involved. No need to drop hundreds just to get started. Rules, Team Box and you're pretty much good to go.

From there, an infantry box now and again to expand your Kill Team.

From there? 6 or so months in, one might look at their Kill Team and think 'you know, if I just added X and Y, I'd have a 40k army' (albeit a smol one).

From there? It's over man! You're hooked!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:


More people now are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc.. type sites which are ideally suited to short fast posting from mobile devices like phones and tablets. Meanwhile forums have taken a heavy back seat, even big sites are far less active than they were 5 or 10 years ago and recruitment and retention of members is a lot harder than it once was. Dakka is actually doing really well at present I would say.

Facebook's other advantage is that it puts you in contact with your local community. And the larger groups (such as formally organised clubs) will have links to each other, further expanding a gamer's horizons and opponent count.

That leads to tournaments being organised, and possibly more frequently. After all, if you're aware of, and in touch with, a community of around 100 gamers (friends, friends of friends etc), then setting up for say, a 20 man tournament should see a full hall.

It sounds daft, given how archaic Wargaming actually is. But such a social hobby is so well suited to social media.

Take my Loot Group on Facebook. Because it's all face-to-face, it works. FB stuff garners a measure of trust over and beyond what a Forum can offer (I don't know your name, your profile tells me nowt), which allows Lootin' to work. At the time of writing, we've got 2,750 members. And five admins.

Some of my deputy admins also admin other FB trading pages. And yes, we do share 'intelligence'. If someone's proven to be trouble on one, there's a chance they may be booted from all. That's not something so easily done when you can use a pseudonym.

the_scotsman wrote:
At least where I am (north of boston) it is going on much stronger than it was in 7th ed. We regularly have new faces showing up where we play and when we hold events 20-30 people turn up to pack the store we play at. We're basically at capacity most weeks, it's great.

You're in my area!

Where do ya play?

the_scotsman wrote:
At least where I am (north of boston) it is going on much stronger than it was in 7th ed. We regularly have new faces showing up where we play and when we hold events 20-30 people turn up to pack the store we play at. We're basically at capacity most weeks, it's great.

Is that the Hobby Bunker, Scotsman?

I skipped 4E to 7E, but I can tell you that there is a lot more 40K going on here in southern NH than there was during 3E. Back then it was nearly all GW and now other games like Bolt Action and X Wing have a decent following here. There are also a lot more stores. I'd say it is doing the opposite of dying.

 Slowroll wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
At least where I am (north of boston) it is going on much stronger than it was in 7th ed. We regularly have new faces showing up where we play and when we hold events 20-30 people turn up to pack the store we play at. We're basically at capacity most weeks, it's great.

Is that the Hobby Bunker, Scotsman?

I skipped 4E to 7E, but I can tell you that there is a lot more 40K going on here in southern NH than there was during 3E. Back then it was nearly all GW and now other games like Bolt Action and X Wing have a decent following here. There are also a lot more stores. I'd say it is doing the opposite of dying.

It is the bunker indeed! I've been playing there for...god, nearly nine years now? There's always been at least some community but now on an average weekend we probably pull 12-16 people and when we run events like 25-30 people show.

There's also a brand new store just up the road in saugus that has a pretty active 40k scene on I think wednesdays? they are more of a competitive crowd, so I don't go there as much (plus weekends are just easier) but they're great guys.

Not here, for whatever reason 8th brainwashed everyone into thinking GW has completely reformed.

40k gets played less near me.
Kill Team gets played by the 40k people, and some 40k happens.
GW Scifi Warhammer games are not dying.

Forums are dying off though. Other formats (FB, FB groups, etc) are taking over, as they will. Dakka does not appear to be dying though.
There are more alternatives to 40k than ever before, so 40k players will drift off to them, probably mixing in some 40k games sometimes.

Forums dying might be caused by people posting inflammatory thread titles.
Maybe call it "My 40k group is dying. How is yours?"

No. Next question.

Is Dakka traffic dying off? Potentially. With GW having more public engagement, and forums in general going out of fashion, it's not strange to think that people may go elsewhere. On a personal level, Dakka (talking about the general userbase, not the moderation team or any single person) is far more negative and (in my opinion) overcritical than some of the other 40k communities I'm part of. I find myself spending less time here, and more time elsewhere, because I simply don't want to keep seeing all the negativity.

Not to say that Dakka doesn't have it's perks and it's things I like, but I want to enjoy the hobby, not see post after post about how people hate it, or how it's dying in their eyes.

Not dying, but the increasing unbalance in 8th does kick people over to other game systems or 30k.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
No. Next question.

Is Dakka traffic dying off? Potentially. With GW having more public engagement, and forums in general going out of fashion, it's not strange to think that people may go elsewhere. On a personal level, Dakka (talking about the general userbase, not the moderation team or any single person) is far more negative and (in my opinion) overcritical than some of the other 40k communities I'm part of. I find myself spending less time here, and more time elsewhere, because I simply don't want to keep seeing all the negativity.

Not to say that Dakka doesn't have it's perks and it's things I like, but I want to enjoy the hobby, not see post after post about how people hate it, or how it's dying in their eyes.

I don't think forums will ever fully die out and honestly, I'd rather see people who say good and bad than just having "echo chambers" where its only positive talk and anything even remotely resembling criticism or not thinking every new thing is even better than the last gets shouted down or punished. I've seen way too many groups where they are like that and it basically becomes a "GW fan group" rather than a discussion group.

Wayniac wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
No. Next question.

Is Dakka traffic dying off? Potentially. With GW having more public engagement, and forums in general going out of fashion, it's not strange to think that people may go elsewhere. On a personal level, Dakka (talking about the general userbase, not the moderation team or any single person) is far more negative and (in my opinion) overcritical than some of the other 40k communities I'm part of. I find myself spending less time here, and more time elsewhere, because I simply don't want to keep seeing all the negativity.

Not to say that Dakka doesn't have it's perks and it's things I like, but I want to enjoy the hobby, not see post after post about how people hate it, or how it's dying in their eyes.

I don't think forums will ever fully die out and honestly, I'd rather see people who say good and bad than just having "echo chambers" where its only positive talk and anything even remotely resembling criticism or not thinking every new thing is even better than the last gets shouted down or punished. I've seen way too many groups where they are like that and it basically becomes a "GW fan group" rather than a discussion group.

I think groups can go both ways sadly, but I'd say luckily, dakka is firmly in the middle.
I've found reddit to be insanely toxic, even liking a model on there is enough to get you lynched as a white knight defending GW lol.
While I don't fall either way, I'm more towards a fan currently as the models recently are solid, got some nice sets and the rules are improving.

With 40k I see it like AoS.
They need time to find their feet properly.
AoS was a complete massacre and a joke to begin with, now though, it's shaping up to be ridiculessly successful.

Wayniac wrote:
I'd rather see people who say good and bad than just having "echo chambers" where its only positive talk and anything even remotely resembling criticism or not thinking every new thing is even better than the last gets shouted down or punished. I've seen way too many groups where they are like that and it basically becomes a "GW fan group" rather than a discussion group.

I'd argue that having an echo chamber where everything is criticism and thinking everything is worse is just as, if not more so, bad.

There should always be room for discussion, but when things are dominated by either "GW CAN DO NO WRONG, THIS IS AMAZING!!" or "GW ARE TERRIBLE, EVERYTHING IS TRASH!!", I think I'd rather engage with the group that isn't going to fill me with negative feelings and salt.

Unfortunately, Dakka (again, generally speaking) seems to lean more towards the latter. Twitter is the most positive I've seen, Facebook seems the most balanced (but I'm not that keen on it overall), and some parts of Reddit are incredibly toxic.

But, of course, this about 40k apparently dying.

Horst wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am not doubting that there has been a decline in some areas, but for the most part, 40K as a whole seems to be doing better than it was five years ago when I started.

Agreed, it's just unfortunate if you live in an area where it used to be popular, and now it's less so. Still can find at least 3-4 games a month locally fairly easily though, and at least 1-2 tournaments a month, as long as I'm willing to drive to Canada. Apparently 40k is huge in the Niagra Falls area. Not THAT bad of a drive, so I'm OK with it.

I live in NF and have to go to either Hamilton, Burlington or Buffalo for a game, so...

 greatbigtree wrote:
Towards the end of 7th, I was ready to sell off and try something new. I had catalogued my minis, was planning to bail.

But 8th was fresh again. My buddies all were on board for playing again. I was on board for playing again. 7th was pure poison for me. I hated it.

I'm not saying I love 40k like I used to, we're platonic these days. And the ever growing supplements are starting to wear me down again. Feels like were falling into bad habits again, but I'm not ready to leave yet.

Dead as a doornail.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I'd rather see people who say good and bad than just having "echo chambers" where its only positive talk and anything even remotely resembling criticism or not thinking every new thing is even better than the last gets shouted down or punished. I've seen way too many groups where they are like that and it basically becomes a "GW fan group" rather than a discussion group.

I'd argue that having an echo chamber where everything is criticism and thinking everything is worse is just as, if not more so, bad.

There should always be room for discussion, but when things are dominated by either "GW CAN DO NO WRONG, THIS IS AMAZING!!" or "GW ARE TERRIBLE, EVERYTHING IS TRASH!!", I think I'd rather engage with the group that isn't going to fill me with negative feelings and salt.

Unfortunately, Dakka (again, generally speaking) seems to lean more towards the latter. Twitter is the most positive I've seen, Facebook seems the most balanced (but I'm not that keen on it overall), and some parts of Reddit are incredibly toxic.

But, of course, this about 40k apparently dying.

Dunno what parts of Reddit you've been on, but the subs I go on (the most well known GW related ones) generally seem to follow the trend of "Love everything GW does or GTFO" mentality, that is also exacerbated by Reddit's upvote/downvote system which stymies discussion. Forums will always have their place due to that. Someone posts something on here you don't like? Best thing you can do is ignore them, but the post is still there and not downvoted into oblivion by users trying to quash active discussion and only promote an echo chamber.


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 EnTyme wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
Towards the end of 7th, I was ready to sell off and try something new. I had catalogued my minis, was planning to bail.

But 8th was fresh again. My buddies all were on board for playing again. I was on board for playing again. 7th was pure poison for me. I hated it.

I'm not saying I love 40k like I used to, we're platonic these days. And the ever growing supplements are starting to wear me down again. Feels like were falling into bad habits again, but I'm not ready to leave yet.

Dead as a doornail.

Just a little PSA- ICV2 is only as good as whomever's narrative wants to be pushed as the data is gathered manually from FLGSs (FLGSs that also choose to participate), you can look at past ones where AoS slipped out of the top 5 yet it was still strong in other local areas for example. The data only gives you a snapshot of those interviewed.

Wayniac wrote:
Not here, for whatever reason 8th brainwashed everyone into thinking GW has completely reformed.

It is amazing what good PR can do. 90% of the improved viewing of GW is that they are no longer a stone wall with no community interaction. Even if balance isn't amazing it helps to comfort customers if it seems like the designers are engaged.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Towards the end of 7th, I was ready to sell off and try something new. I had catalogued my minis, was planning to bail.

But 8th was fresh again. My buddies all were on board for playing again. I was on board for playing again. 7th was pure poison for me. I hated it.

I'm not saying I love 40k like I used to, we're platonic these days. And the ever growing supplements are starting to wear me down again. Feels like were falling into bad habits again, but I'm not ready to leave yet.

That's the problem. GW is falling into old habits and everyone sees it. So people once again are going to leave the game and they probably wont come back this time.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Seems like popularity has died down more and more in my area and on the forums since 5 and 6th which seem like the pinnacle of this hobby system.

You should ask yourself why 40k seems less popular now than it was in 5th and 6th editions. 90% of the time, it has to do with a few particular players poisoning the community.

 Red_Five wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Seems like popularity has died down more and more in my area and on the forums since 5 and 6th which seem like the pinnacle of this hobby system.

You should ask yourself why 40k seems less popular now than it was in 5th and 6th editions. 90% of the time, it has to do with a few particular players poisoning the community.

The situation is different here.
I think we had never more 40k players than right now.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Horst wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am not doubting that there has been a decline in some areas, but for the most part, 40K as a whole seems to be doing better than it was five years ago when I started.

Agreed, it's just unfortunate if you live in an area where it used to be popular, and now it's less so. Still can find at least 3-4 games a month locally fairly easily though, and at least 1-2 tournaments a month, as long as I'm willing to drive to Canada. Apparently 40k is huge in the Niagra Falls area. Not THAT bad of a drive, so I'm OK with it.

Honestly, I almost wonder if this is all a consequence of 7E being poison. Plenty of people I know left when Formations became the norm. I also know a few Eldar players that hated not getting games just by virtue of playing Eldar.

Honestly this sucks, When people try to drum up excitement for 40k. And then tell you not to bother turning up as no one wants to play you since Eldar player.
And then wonder why 40k is dead here as well for the most part.
I even got kicked from a facebook group for playing eldar and complaining my gray knights had been wrecked

I think on the whole, GW are doing well. But i think the supplements are probably helping a lot. Necromunda, kill team. And now with some players itching for Mordheim they even buying some fantasy minis.