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Necromunda Spiders all day ev'ry day.

I'm not sure you understand how an invasion works. Militarius Trademarkus squads can't do a damn thing solo because there's like 50 of them in the whole galaxy.

Where on Terra do you get that idea? There are hundreds of thousands of various regiments administered by the Ordo, all full of fighting platoons. The concept of a Stormtrooper Strike Force wouldn’t work if there were only 50 of them. Wait, are you thinking of the old fluff of a single orphan regiment with 10,000 troopers?

They can drop in and kill some stuff, but if someone else doesn't show up to secure the area they'll just get overwhelmed and wiped out. Meanwhile a siege regiment is perfectly content to open a landing zone by deploying outside of the target and shelling an area into rubble. Except they don't really need to make a landing zone, since they can just keep shelling everything into rubble until nothing remains.

Yeah, I said open up the area solo. Securing the area is something any old menial that can’t handle intense fighting can do. Wow. Kriegers bomb something from range. Cowards can’t drop right into the enemy’s ranks and command structure and finish the fight. You have to shell something to rubble over, what did you say earlier, a month’s time? You use so much munitions and weather so much fire, whereas special operations are done quickly, within the matter hours or days.

At least we have a separate army list. Your "army" is just a page in someone else's codex, and your "codex" was so awful that one of GW's best decisions in 8th was taking it away.

It’s a few pages actually. It’s called consolidation. I hear a lot of people like the idea for Space Marines as well. Who knows, we’ll be hipsters when Space Marines do it next edition. The codex was a bit repetitive on the Schola fluff, however, I found it as an interesting calling back to some of the old crazy grim dark. Turn in your library books late? Die or serve in the guard! Throw an uprising? Be ground into human paste and plaster, to be adorned about the training facility walls. The rest of the fluff—ie the information and color schemes to be used as inspiration for custom regiments, was good. Established how they have autonomy, can work with just about anybody in the Imperium (they only need mind wipes, not slaughter, when working with the cheeky grey fellas), and they have a much higher aptitude than your average guardsmen. (There life expectancy is longer than 16 hours ).

Militarius Trademarkus: have to have commissars along to maintain morale and give inspiration, because they are cowards at heart and will fail in their duty otherwise.

Militarum Tempestus don’t need Commissars to lead in battle or operations. Scions perform their duties or die trying. A single Tempestor was known to hold his own in battle against a Greater Daemon of Nurgle. In addition, Commissars are trained not only to be inspirational and brave, but also with tactics and military strategy. Problem regiments like Kreigies never get to see this side because of all the problems they cause. Scions don’t cause problems. Lord Commissars get to lead the most important of operations with no concern for fear in the hearts of Scions, while other Commissars are cutting their teeth in the regiment, getting solid firsthand experience to apply elsewhere (elsewhere not being problem regiments like Kriegies because they have to dedicate all of their time to stopping the foolish suicide because “muh death cult.”

Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

Honestly, it is probably regiments from the Sol system which are the best- it appears they get equipped with weaponry and gear far superior to the vast majority of the Imperial Guard, and have some extremely selective units in existence there.

For example, whilst Saturn itself has been claimed by the Inquisition, the void clans were probably relocated and are almost certainly still churning out regiments in the vein of the Solar Auxilia template used so widely in the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy. The Lucifer Blacks are also known to still exist and have legendary exploits.

If the Void Hoplites of the successors of the Saturnyne Ordos are still using equipment similar to that which set the template during the GC, then they will be forming regiments of carapace-armoured, heavily disciplined soldiers using superior lasrifles that can match or even out-range Tau troopers.

This is hardly surprising- the Sol system contains the heart of Imperial technological output, as well as being a heavily populated system with an extensive martial tradition.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

I don’t know what you mean. Scions get assigned to help out regiments all the time. They don’t bring tanks and artillery and basic mooks because it doesn’t go with their tactical doctrines.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

I don’t know what you mean. Scions get assigned to help out regiments all the time. They don’t bring tanks and artillery and basic mooks because it doesn’t go with their tactical doctrines.

Again, regiments that get trusted get access to multiple unit types in one regiment, which scions don't

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

You clearly lack the understanding that there is a distinct difference in the two mentioned type of regiments, A krieg regiment is almost unrivaled in siege warfare and grueling drawn out combat. Witch they are distictly trained in, while a Tempestus Scion regiment excel in rapid and complex operations witch their traning makes them unrivaled at. They both are very good troops but they are wildly different in their fields of expertise. And when your role is spec ops you do not need tanks, those assests are provided by other convetional forces of the imperium should the need for armoured support or heavy artiliry fire arise in a combat operation.

 Jazzylee wrote:
In your opinion, what is the best Imperial Guard regiment if you judge them by their historical background and victories? I would say the 8th Cadians, they may be a generic guard regiment to most people, but I admire their bravery and lineage of well trained guardsmen. The 8th Cadian from what I'm told of start their training as children, similar to the Spartans of ancient times.

DKK no question about it.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

I don’t know what you mean. Scions get assigned to help out regiments all the time. They don’t bring tanks and artillery and basic mooks because it doesn’t go with their tactical doctrines.

Again, regiments that get trusted get access to multiple unit types in one regiment, which scions don't

Scions don’t need tanks. They rely on infantry power first and foremost with light armor and precision aircraft for support.
That’s why Scions are trusted to have every other guy holding rare weapons like plasma. I bet Kriegies would rig plasma to explode just so they could die.

Besides, Taurox Primes and Valkyries both have enough variation in firepower, from killing chaff to armor, that Scions need.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trondheim wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

You clearly lack the understanding that there is a distinct difference in the two mentioned type of regiments, A krieg regiment is almost unrivaled in siege warfare and grueling drawn out combat. Witch they are distictly trained in, while a Tempestus Scion regiment excel in rapid and complex operations witch their traning makes them unrivaled at. They both are very good troops but they are wildly different in their fields of expertise. And when your role is spec ops you do not need tanks, those assests are provided by other convetional forces of the imperium should the need for armoured support or heavy artiliry fire arise in a combat operation.

This indeed. Also, when your operations only take hours to weeks at most compared to month long artillery barrages, Scions have used their resources much more efficiently than Kriegies.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Scions don’t need tanks. They rely on infantry power first and foremost with light armor and precision aircraft for support.

IOW, once the Valkyries run low on fuel and return to base Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are completely helpless against enemy artillery and tanks and aircraft. Their only anti-tank weapons are close-range guns carried by squishy infantry, good luck closing in over miles of open ground as dug-in tanks and artillery guns are mowing them down.

Besides, Taurox Primes and Valkyries both have enough variation in firepower, from killing chaff to armor, that Scions need.

{citation needed}

Neither has very effective anti-tank firepower, and fluff-wise Valkyries are severely limited by fuel needs so they can't remain in the battle very long. Also, taking a Taurox means giving up the air mobility you're bragging about and making Militarius™ Trademarkus™ no more mobile than a conventional regiment in Chimeras. Except, unlike that conventional regiment, the Taurox is the best tank they have while the conventional regiment has LRBTs/Baneblades/etc.

(Sure, the various Imperial Navy strike aircraft are great and can kill tanks, but we all know the Imperial Navy is awesome. Don't try to steal their glory for your band of cowards and narcissists.)

Scions have used their resources much more efficiently than Kriegies.

Hardly. Scions require years of training at torture-Hogwarts, an artillery shell is mass-produced ammunition. I know which one I'd rather expend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it's not like Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are the only shock troops in 40k. Kasrkin/DKoK grenadiers/etc all have the same equipment and superior skill. Except where Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are trained at their weird torture-Hogwarts and the biggest threat they face is their own teachers a DKoK grenadier is a veteran of merciless attrition warfare before they are even eligible for selection for grenadier duty, on top of their initial training to become guardsmen. So who is scarier, the battle-hardened survivors of some of the nastiest hells the 40k universe has to offer, or the coddled narcissists whose greatest military achievement prior to being declared elite is killing their friend for talking in potions class?

 Trondheim wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Kriegers still vastly superior to your little shock troops Apple,
Also they get gak done alone unlike your silly little elite force which isn't even allowed to be mixed, for propper mobile warfare

You clearly lack the understanding that there is a distinct difference in the two mentioned type of regiments, A krieg regiment is almost unrivaled in siege warfare and grueling drawn out combat. Witch they are distictly trained in, while a Tempestus Scion regiment excel in rapid and complex operations witch their traning makes them unrivaled at. They both are very good troops but they are wildly different in their fields of expertise. And when your role is spec ops you do not need tanks, those assests are provided by other convetional forces of the imperium should the need for armoured support or heavy artiliry fire arise in a combat operation.

And you clearly lack understanding that the type of warfare the IOM is having most of the time, E.G. MEATGRINDER, for that you CAN'T effectively use ELITE TROOPS, (Real world implication WW1 sturmtruppen programm weaking the german army overall) So your elite troops are overall worthless for the imperium beyond beeing lapdog for a inquisitor, but that is besides the point, the question is what is the best Regiment and in this case it needs to be the following:
Preferably mixed,
Durable,
Maintenance easy
and most importantly Fanatical,

Guess which regiments fit that bill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
Scions don’t need tanks. They rely on infantry power first and foremost with light armor and precision aircraft for support.

IOW, once the Valkyries run low on fuel and return to base Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are completely helpless against enemy artillery and tanks and aircraft. Their only anti-tank weapons are close-range guns carried by squishy infantry, good luck closing in over miles of open ground as dug-in tanks and artillery guns are mowing them down.

Besides, Taurox Primes and Valkyries both have enough variation in firepower, from killing chaff to armor, that Scions need.

{citation needed}

Neither has very effective anti-tank firepower, and fluff-wise Valkyries are severely limited by fuel needs so they can't remain in the battle very long. Also, taking a Taurox means giving up the air mobility you're bragging about and making Militarius™ Trademarkus™ no more mobile than a conventional regiment in Chimeras. Except, unlike that conventional regiment, the Taurox is the best tank they have while the conventional regiment has LRBTs/Baneblades/etc.

(Sure, the various Imperial Navy strike aircraft are great and can kill tanks, but we all know the Imperial Navy is awesome. Don't try to steal their glory for your band of cowards and narcissists.)

Scions have used their resources much more efficiently than Kriegies.

Hardly. Scions require years of training at torture-Hogwarts, an artillery shell is mass-produced ammunition. I know which one I'd rather expend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it's not like Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are the only shock troops in 40k. Kasrkin/DKoK grenadiers/etc all have the same equipment and superior skill. Except where Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are trained at their weird torture-Hogwarts and the biggest threat they face is their own teachers a DKoK grenadier is a veteran of merciless attrition warfare before they are even eligible for selection for grenadier duty, on top of their initial training to become guardsmen. So who is scarier, the battle-hardened survivors of some of the nastiest hells the 40k universe has to offer, or the coddled narcissists whose greatest military achievement prior to being declared elite is killing their friend for talking in potions class?

Also pretty much this.
Durability is also determined how fast you can replenish your ranks, in this case, scions are difficult to replace, DKoK lineinfantry infinitely less so.

 Jazzylee wrote:
In your opinion, what is the best Imperial Guard regiment if you judge them by their historical background and victories? I would say the 8th Cadians, they may be a generic guard regiment to most people, but I admire their bravery and lineage of well trained guardsmen. The 8th Cadian from what I'm told of start their training as children, similar to the Spartans of ancient times.

The best has to be Thirteenth Penal Legion. They are the "A Team" of the Imperial Guard. If Colonel Shaeffer doesn't get you then Lieutenant Kage will.

@Not Online : As i said and will never dispute, Krieg regiments are unrivaled in drawn out warfare in theathers like Vraks and its like. But you do not send a Krieg regiment to rescue hostages and or infilltrate enemy rear lines to knock out enemy gun batteries. You send Scions and their equivelant, and you do not throw Scions against a heavily fortified and prepared foe, you send the Krieg regiments, but they have distinct different roles!

As for what regiment is the best? It boils down to personal taste and preferences. I prefer the Praetorians and Mordian Iron guard before the Scions or Krieg, but they are all good troops

 Trondheim wrote:
But you do not send a Krieg regiment to rescue hostages and or infilltrate enemy rear lines to knock out enemy gun batteries.

Nor do you sent Militarius™ Trademarkus™ to do the job. Hostages are traitors to the Emperor for allowing themselves to be taken alive instead of fighting to the death, and probably already tortured to death anyway so you might as well just shell the area into rubble. Enemy gun batteries are best knocked out by counter-battery fire from your own artillery, something Krieg regiments are great at.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:
But you do not send a Krieg regiment to rescue hostages and or infilltrate enemy rear lines to knock out enemy gun batteries.

Nor do you sent Militarius™ Trademarkus™ to do the job. Hostages are traitors to the Emperor for allowing themselves to be taken alive instead of fighting to the death, and probably already tortured to death anyway so you might as well just shell the area into rubble. Enemy gun batteries are best knocked out by counter-battery fire from your own artillery, something Krieg regiments are great at.

Yea... Well thankfully Peregine Grimdarkus dont set the parameters for my view on the 40k universe, or anyone else view except your own.

IOW, once the Valkyries run low on fuel and return to base Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are completely helpless against enemy artillery and tanks and aircraft. Their only anti-tank weapons are close-range guns carried by squishy infantry, good luck closing in over miles of open ground as dug-in tanks and artillery guns are mowing them down.

Wow. You just can’t seem to grasp the concept of infantry not marching over no-man’s land. Scions air drop from orbit deep into enemy lines. Shortly after, the Valkyries (some by space, as they have been made void-worthy) show up with more Scions, letting loose and taking out vital targets. Meanwhile, the modified Taurox Primes are speeding across any open ground since the enemy is too busy fighting for their lives to bring their guns to bear. Jeez, you still seem to not understand that Scions don’t march across no-mans land like Kriegies buffoons.

{citation needed}

Neither has very effective anti-tank firepower, and fluff-wise Valkyries are severely limited by fuel needs so they can't remain in the battle very long. Also, taking a Taurox means giving up the air mobility you're bragging about and making Militarius™ Trademarkus™ no more mobile than a conventional regiment in Chimeras. Except, unlike that conventional regiment, the Taurox is the best tank they have while the conventional regiment has LRBTs/Baneblades/etc.

When I say Valkyries, I’m referring to the family of aircraft. Which one had six lascannons again? Besides, Scions don’t stay in battle very long. The goal is achieved quickly and loudly. Are you still thinking that there are only 50 Scions? I’ll spell it out for you. Four or five squads can deploy from orbit, four or five can take the Valkyries, and the other will ride in the Taurox Primes. That’s only about a Demi-company’s worth right there.

Also Taurox Primes are APCs, not tanks.

Also Taurox Primes are faster and more moneuverable than Chimeras.

(Sure, the various Imperial Navy strike aircraft are great and can kill tanks, but we all know the Imperial Navy is awesome. Don't try to steal their glory for your band of cowards and narcissists.)

Yeah, they are pretty great. I wasn’t talking about them, however.

Tempestus Scions are pretty much robots after the Correction Throne. Narcissists? Projecting your guardsmen’s penis-envy much? No emotion but devotion, bud.

Hardly. Scions require years of training at torture-Hogwarts, an artillery shell is mass-produced ammunition. I know which one I'd rather expend.

Just three years. With this training and education, they have superior skill and are trained for countless more scenarios than your Kriegies could hope to see. You expend billions of shells in your dumb barrages. You finally go to move on the enemy and they still persist, killing millions of Kriegies. Scions dropped into their HQ, killed everyone important and destroyed the frame for the enemy force, and extracted. They only lost about 50 people.

Also, it's not like Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are the only shock troops in 40k. Kasrkin/DKoK grenadiers/etc all have the same equipment and superior skill. Except where Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are trained at their weird torture-Hogwarts and the biggest threat they face is their own teachers a DKoK grenadier is a veteran of merciless attrition warfare before they are even eligible for selection for grenadier duty, on top of their initial training to become guardsmen. So who is scarier, the battle-hardened survivors of some of the nastiest hells the 40k universe has to offer, or the coddled narcissists whose greatest military achievement prior to being declared elite is killing their friend for talking in potions class?

Citation for superior skill? I doubt I’ll get one.
Scions are veterans of countless conflicts. Their tactical acumen is only bested by Astartes and Creed. Scions can anticipate where Eldar will strike, deploy on the hull of ork ships in the void and destroy them, clear GSC infestations, you name it.

I get your little digs on High Gothic. Blame third party sellers, not the company trying to adapt.
Also, aren’t Kriegies going through a bit of an OoP scare? I wouldn’t know how that feels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:
But you do not send a Krieg regiment to rescue hostages and or infilltrate enemy rear lines to knock out enemy gun batteries.

Nor do you sent Militarius™ Trademarkus™ to do the job. Hostages are traitors to the Emperor for allowing themselves to be taken alive instead of fighting to the death, and probably already tortured to death anyway so you might as well just shell the area into rubble. Enemy gun batteries are best knocked out by counter-battery fire from your own artillery, something Krieg regiments are great at.

Oh yeah. Let’s just destroy all the useful infrastructure that could be used to rebuild the world. Hur dur.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trondheim wrote:
@Not Online : As i said and will never dispute, Krieg regiments are unrivaled in drawn out warfare in theathers like Vraks and its like. But you do not send a Krieg regiment to rescue hostages and or infilltrate enemy rear lines to knock out enemy gun batteries. You send Scions and their equivelant, and you do not throw Scions against a heavily fortified and prepared foe, you send the Krieg regiments, but they have distinct different roles!

As for what regiment is the best? It boils down to personal taste and preferences. I prefer the Praetorians and Mordian Iron guard before the Scions or Krieg, but they are all good troops

If you are curious, you can look back in the thread to when I said Scions shouldn’t be in the running for OP’s question. My interpretation was that OP asked for the best Militarum Regimentos Regiment. I’ve only discussed further since people just get their rocks off hating on Scions.

I read that and I actually agree with you. People do have their panties in a twist about the Scions, thankfully no one forces them to play said army

 Trondheim wrote:
Yea... Well thankfully Peregine Grimdarkus dont set the parameters for my view on the 40k universe, or anyone else view except your own.

Agreed. I've noticed that Peregrine's views on some things in the 40k universe at so grimdark as to be one-dimensional. Either that or he is joking by deliberately pushing the envelope, I cannot tell which.

Stormtroopers are a part of the lore, and while they may be called something stupid after the latest round of GW trademarkization... they are still undeniably cool.

Special forces are also not a waste of resources, as has been proven time and time again in real life conflicts. Even in more meat-grindery attrition based conflict such as WW1, the german sturmtruppen proved their worth with their incredible performance in the Kaiserschlacht.

I think Apple Peel is overly-enthusiastic about his stormtroopers, but I also feel some posters in here are being needlessly contrarian.

Kriegs aren't "good" guardsmen. But Kriegs are very good regiments. Their entire training is designed to make them good in mass ranks. Their personnal accuracy is poor, but they are only thought to create suppressive fire. They are very endurent troopers. Capable of fighting in the worst wastelands and are adept at trench warfare. They rely heavily on attrition and artillery to win their battles thus only efficient in large battlegroup where several regiments work together. Their discipline and fanaticism is almost unrivaled in the Imperial Guard and their officers got their rank thanks to merit and survival alone. One regiment of Krieg isn't very dangerous. They aren't trained to fight highly mobile form of warfare and don't have the tools to make them efficient close combat fighters either even though they are well trained in it. All in all, Kreig win in a very "imperial guard" way. They will attack and throw their lives away until you run out of ammo, courage and men before they do. It makes for very costly battle in men and equipment, but the Krieg don't care. They are here to die for the Emperor and that's it. The glarring weaknesses of the Krieg Death Korp both in personnal training and at the tactical level prevents them from being the best regiment of the Imperial Guard. The best ones are still Cadians in my opinion.

PS: I don't consider the Millitarum Tempestus as part of the Imperial Guard either.

epronovost wrote:

PS: I don't consider the Millitarum Tempestus as part of the Imperial Guard either.

Yeah, they aren’t. Look at the separation of the Astra Militarum picture in the 8th codex. Militarum Regimentos is IG.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Wow. You just can’t seem to grasp the concept of infantry not marching over no-man’s land. Scions air drop from orbit deep into enemy lines. Shortly after, the Valkyries (some by space, as they have been made void-worthy) show up with more Scions, letting loose and taking out vital targets. Meanwhile, the modified Taurox Primes are speeding across any open ground since the enemy is too busy fighting for their lives to bring their guns to bear. Jeez, you still seem to not understand that Scions don’t march across no-mans land like Kriegies buffoons.

And then a squadron of enemy air superiority fighters shoots down the Valkyries then strafes the Tauroxes, killing the entire assault force. I mean, if you're just going to assume that the enemy can't even stop a few small units of infantry then I can assume that the Militarius™ Trademarkus™ don't get any Imperial Navy escort.

Which one had six lascannons again?

The one that is an Imperial Navy gunship, not a Militarius™ Trademarkus™ unit.

Besides, Scions don’t stay in battle very long. The goal is achieved quickly and loudly.

So, they're a very complicated way of doing what a Marauder squadron can do in a single bombing run. Why have infantry if they aren't going to stay on the ground and hold their objectives? If killing is all you want that's what artillery and air strikes are for.

Also Taurox Primes are APCs, not tanks.

I'm not sure how you think this is a point in your favor, arguing that Militarius™ Trademarkus™ don't even have real tanks.

Tempestus Scions are pretty much robots after the Correction Throne.

Also not a point in their favor. In fact, the whole emphasis on absolute and unquestioning obedience in their codex is just a long essay on why they're terrible elite troops. Elites need intelligence and initiative, not mindless obedience to their original orders. Grenadiers/Kasrkin/etc are just as well trained and equipped but aren't turned into lobotomized gun servitors.

PS: which one is more likely to flee after suffering losses? I'll give you a hint, it's not the army where even the basic infantry squads are completely immune to morale losses caused by shooting.

Just three years. With this training and education, they have superior skill and are trained for countless more scenarios than your Kriegies could hope to see.

{citation needed}

Last I checked rules-wise they're pretty similar, just with different special deployment rules (Militarius™ Trademarkus™ get to deep strike, grenadiers get a 9" pre-game move). And fluff-wise grenadiers are the survivors of some of the worst hellscapes the 40k universe can come up with. I know I'd put more faith in the skill and experience of a hardened veteran who has gone up against certain death and survived vs. a graduate of torture-Hogwarts whose greatest accomplishment before being declared elite was killing their classmate for talking in potions class.

Scions dropped into their HQ, killed everyone important and destroyed the frame for the enemy force, and extracted. They only lost about 50 people.

That's nice fanfiction, but it isn't reality. In a real war even if you can identify the enemy HQ killing one officer just means that the next one in the chain of command takes over. Just like space marine fanboys you over-value the importance of single officers and then magnify your error by assuming that dropping infantry that then have to be recovered is a better answer than launching a Manticore salvo and killing everything in the entire grid square.

Scions are veterans of countless conflicts.

Some Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are veterans. Some are newbies fresh out of Hogwarts. Every single DKoK grenadier is a battle-tested veteran who has earned the right to wear the skull gas mask.

I get your little digs on High Gothic. Blame third party sellers, not the company trying to adapt.

No, I blame GW for publishing idiotic fluff for idiotic reasons.

Oh yeah. Let’s just destroy all the useful infrastructure that could be used to rebuild the world. Hur dur.

Useful for what? More heresy and xenos filth? The taint must be purged with fire, only then can the world be rebuilt in the Emperor's name.

 Big Mac wrote:
There is no best regiment, each one are specialized, even the famous ones. But if I had to choose, I’d go with Tanith First and Only, there is like a 15 book series about them.

Ditto

And then a squadron of enemy air superiority fighters shoots down the Valkyries then strafes the Tauroxes, killing the entire assault force. I mean, if you're just going to assume that the enemy can't even stop a few small units of infantry then I can assume that the Militarius™ Trademarkus™ don't get any Imperial Navy escort.

You really don’t think they get any help like any other force?

The one that is an Imperial Navy gunship, not a Militarius™ Trademarkus™ unit.

Wow. Congratulations. It’s almost as if Aeronautica units get assigned to Scion Regiments. And could you stop with the dumb mocking names? It makes you look even more pedantic and idiotic.

So, they're a very complicated way of doing what a Marauder squadron can do in a single bombing run. Why have infantry if they aren't going to stay on the ground and hold their objectives? If killing is all you want that's what artillery and air strikes are for.

Funny, I explained this earlier. Scions go and clear the objectives so basic menial troopers like your Kriegies can establish a foot hold in a timely manner.

I'm not sure how you think this is a point in your favor, arguing that Militarius™ Trademarkus™ don't even have real tanks.

If by showing your idiocy, then yes, it is a point in my favor. In addition, as I’ve said before, Scions don’t use tanks. They’re too slow for the rapid strike operations employed by Scions. I’m thinking your just being obtuse.

Also not a point in their favor. In fact, the whole emphasis on absolute and unquestioning obedience in their codex is just a long essay on why they're terrible elite troops. Elites need intelligence and initiative, not mindless obedience to their original orders. Grenadiers/Kasrkin/etc are just as well trained and equipped but aren't turned into lobotomized gun servitors.

When I say robots, I don’t mean servitors. I mean men that don’t care for the penis-envy of normal guardsmen. The Correction Throne wiped the brain of unnecessary memories so the room can be used for nigh countless tactical doctrines. Scions can make on-the-spot decisions when in the field to ensure orders are completed as best as possible.

PS: which one is more likely to flee after suffering losses? I'll give you a hint, it's not the army where even the basic infantry squads are completely immune to morale losses caused by shooting.

I don’t know, I can point to many times in lore that Scions have stuck threw while never breaking. If we were going to use just basic unit stats for comparison, then you need to hush up about artillery barrages from orbit and month-long artillery barrages, as you can’t do those in game.

{citation needed}

Last I checked rules-wise they're pretty similar, just with different special deployment rules (Militarius™ Trademarkus™ get to deep strike, grenadiers get a 9" pre-game move). And fluff-wise grenadiers are the survivors of some of the worst hellscapes the 40k universe can come up with. I know I'd put more faith in the skill and experience of a hardened veteran who has gone up against certain death and survived vs. a graduate of torture-Hogwarts whose greatest accomplishment before being declared elite was killing their classmate for talking in potions class.

Tempestus Scions will always oversaturate your Grenadiers on special weapons, being able to take four in a ten man squad and two in a five man squad.

That's nice fanfiction, but it isn't reality. In a real war even if you can identify the enemy HQ killing one officer just means that the next one in the chain of command takes over. Just like space marine fanboys you over-value the importance of single officers and then magnify your error by assuming that dropping infantry that then have to be recovered is a better answer than launching a Manticore salvo and killing everything in the entire grid square.

Don’t really care, bruv. Yeah, let’s just destroy all the factorums and such because lol, artillery.


Some Militarius™ Trademarkus™ are veterans. Some are newbies fresh out of Hogwarts. Every single DKoK grenadier is a battle-tested veteran who has earned the right to wear the skull gas mask.
Congratulations. Scions, with all their proficiency, start out at the level Kriegies get if they don’t kill themselves. And the Kriegies will probably die soon after. However, Scions have much higher potential sealing because of this. Scions can only go up m, whereas Kriegies will die sooner rather than later.

 Apple Peel wrote:
...It makes you look even more pedantic and idiotic.

 Apple Peel wrote:
...It makes you look even more pedantic and idiotic.

Excellent use of words, especially by you.


Also, look at the Scion Tempestor Prime. He can't even carry a sidearm when he wishes to command more than one squad. He needs a beat stick command rod to do that.

 Hawky wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
...It makes you look even more pedantic and idiotic.

 Apple Peel wrote:
...It makes you look even more pedantic and idiotic.

Excellent use of words, especially by you.


Also, look at the Scion Tempestor Prime. He can't even carry a sidearm when he wishes to command more than one squad. He needs a beat stick command rod to do that.

If it were a Whip i would suspect either slaaneshy or da heresy!

Also, look at the Scion Tempestor Prime. He can't even carry a sidearm when he wishes to command more than one squad. He needs a beat stick command rod to do that.

I would be happier if the Prime was able to keep the sidearms, but I’m not using the Prime as shooter.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Also, look at the Scion Tempestor Prime. He can't even carry a sidearm when he wishes to command more than one squad. He needs a beat stick command rod to do that.

I would be happier if the Prime was able to keep the sidearms, but I’m not using the Prime as shooter.

Be happy that you still have options.

unlike some other armies........

The storied (*) 597th Valhallan - guardians of a Hero of the Imperium, trusted by the Inqusition (well at least a couple fo Inquisitors), they have fought against and survived against Necrons, Tau, Orks, Chaos and Tryanids.

(*) they have books written about them in and out of universe

Can't we just agree that anyone wearing carapace armor and using a hellgun is superior to being a mutant wearing power armor and using a boltgun?

 Bobthehero wrote:
Can't we just agree that anyone wearing carapace armor and using a hellgun is superior to being a mutant wearing power armor and using a boltgun?

Not really mutants. More "superior in every physical and mental way" to a human, by grace of the Emperor's own gifts and blessing. And, if we're talking superior, as in, in combat and strategy, then certainly not - Space Marines, by and large, are better than nearly all humans (barring ones who are given similarly "mutant"-like enhancements or psychic powers).

Of course, if the question is "more badass", then that becomes subjective, and a real contest