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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Let's be fair here, GW has ALWAYS sucked at naming.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Kildare, Ireland

The more extravagant naming over the years was reserved for factions or lore- Godhammer pattern lascannons for example. They were just twin lascannons in the game.
Deathwatch Overkill is a nonsense name, but the team itself is called Kill Team Cassius, which reads sensibly.

Things started to go off the rails when wolfclaws and blood claws came on the scene and deteriorated from there.

Even the eldar have sensible if extravagant names- howling banshees have screamy masks, striking scorpions wear segmented armour, void ghosts float around.

Vanguard does make sense as a name, but its never just vanguard tactical squad, which i think most people would correctly read. 'vanguard infiltrators' makes sense to a point but inflitrators is a special rule that squads and factions have used before.

Vanguard Eliminators are just Vanguard Tacs with a sniper rifle.
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

I think some of Gws better naming conventions have followed more real life stuff like Rhino, Vulture, Chimera, Falcon etc.

The middling ones probably include what-you-read-is-what-they-do like Land Speeder/Raider, Stompa, Battewagon etc.

Bottom of the pile are....well a lot of the new Ork vehicles and primaris I feel. Sloppity Bilepiper also gets a gold medal for crap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 09:16:31


Dman137 wrote:
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By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

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Enginseer with a Wrench






While I'm not a fan of the majority of GW's naming conventions, at least they've moved beyond the awful style of 'Verbnoun nounverbers' used in the early days of Age of Sigmar.

I see a lot of claims that the reasoning behind the new names is for legal protection; but I think it's just as likely that it's for Search Engine Optimisation purposes.

'Intercessor' is much more SEO friendly than 'Tactical'.

+Death of a Rubricist+
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Made in fr
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on the forum. Obviously

Is it me, or do nearly all of the Primaris names start with I?
I think Reivers and Aggressors are the only ones that don't.

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Holy Terra

I have no problems with the names.

They sound more modern sci-fi, imo.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





actually what they sound is more high gothic. a lot of the primaris marines have a vaguely latin sound to them.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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 Asherian Command wrote:

Well we did have in most situations of warfare, 'outrider' and 'vanguard' units as strategies in combat.

The description of outrider is far more niche than fast attack though. As is the name 'vanguard' which is for the the foremost part of an advancing army.


Whilst true, perhaps part of the issue is that the detachments imply a tactical or strategic role for their units which doesn't actually exist and might well be counter to the units' actual role.

e.g. the Vanguard are the units that lead the army, but most Elites don't want to be at the front at all.

What's more, a Spearhead also refers to the units that lead the army. So now you've got two different detachments, both defined by their apparently leading the army. And the cherry on the cake is that one of the definitions of 'Outrider' is 'a member of the Vanguard'. That makes three different detachments, all defined by their apparently leading the army.

My favourite part though is the fact that, in all likelihood, none of the above will actually be at the front. That honour will probably be given to the expendable troops from a Battalion.
   
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France

 Ishagu wrote:
I have no problems with the names.

They sound more modern sci-fi, imo.


Except 40k ISN'T modern or sci fi or modern sci fi so shouldn't feel or sound like it.

   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench






'Tactical', 'Terminator' etc. and so forth aren't inherently easier to remember than 'Intercessor' and 'Impulsor' – I think it's simple familiarity that makes them seem that way – so the main objection I have to the modern naming is not that they're obscure; but rather that the real-world terms often don't seem to relate to them. In short, they're not evocative.

Some of the new names work well – 'Infiltrators' is a good example of a familiar term that instantly describes what the squad does; as does 'Hellblasters' (even if I personally think that sounds a bit silly).

'Impulsors', however; or 'Inceptor'? Those terms just don't evoke any sort of interest. They are – obscure – English terms, but they sound bland; and have unclear associations.

Instead of names like that, I would have preferred GW to use codenames – 'Phobos', 'Gravis' and 'Tacticus' (and, to a certain extent, 'Rhino' and so forth) are non-English, and as a result, you immediately understand that this is in-world jargon. This piques your interest, and is a bit more engaging.

+++
A special note here for Intercessors, which I have grown to rather like. That's slightly obscure, but does have the excuse of evoking heavenly intervention, which is very fitting for the Angels of Death.

However, I remember thinking it was a daft name at first – it's purely familiarity that's got me being an apologist for it!

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 Ratius wrote:
I think some of Gws better naming conventions have followed more real life stuff like Rhino, Vulture, Chimera, Falcon etc.

The middling ones probably include what-you-read-is-what-they-do like Land Speeder/Raider, Stompa, Battewagon etc.

Bottom of the pile are....well a lot of the new Ork vehicles and primaris I feel. Sloppity Bilepiper also gets a gold medal for crap.


The Guard naming convention was vehicles get fantasy monster names- Chimera, Dragon, Basilisk. This mirrors the Empire from WHFB- as the Imperial zoo contained creatures that could be brought to battle by generals- blended with the Empire's focus on cannons and men at arms.

Rhino is just a holdover- its not part of a general naming convention. All imperial forces could use it at its introduction. This gives it interesting in-universe history as an example of STC tech common through all the Imperium.

Marine convention was slightly more descriptive: Land Speeder/raider, predator tank, until the predator got destructor and annihilator variants, when they started using wordier terms.

Vindicator, Crusader, Redeemer. (Aggressor sounds like a model of landspeeder or landraider.) These words also covey intent- though not as descriptively, more emotively. The emotion conveyed is the ideals of the marines themselves- as brutal steel bodied destroyers of their foes.

The second marine convention is Storm terminology- usually added as a descriptor. Whirlwind, Stormbolter, hurricane bolter, Lightning claws, typhoon, tempest, Thunder. This is purely emotive again, and conveys the mythical elements of divine warriors -which is why the Sigmarines promptly stole them all.

Wolves get ice terms - but that has been dialled up to 11 too.

Overall, the strong naming conventions of the marines give them an identity that a mess like tries (and fails) to buy into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Apologist wrote:

+++
A special note here for Intercessors, which I have grown to rather like. That's slightly obscure, but does have the excuse of evoking heavenly intervention, which is very fitting for the Angels of Death.

However, I remember thinking it was a daft name at first – it's purely familiarity that's got me being an apologist for it!


Intercessors is one of the better names. I still think it could have been a sisters unit name, but my real issue with it is that it still doesn't describe anything about the unit - and cannot because the unit is not meaningfully distinct. An intercessor squad is just a tactical squad with boltguns at arms-length tabletop- although we may know they have different rules, that's what we are seeing.

Grey hunters is what SW call their Tactical marine equivelant, Intercessors is what Primaris call theirs, but the latter seems so unnecessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 10:22:50


 
   
Made in fr
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Please leave my town.

'Intercessor' is the single best Space Marine unit name GW have ever come up with. It literally means "an angel come to save us in answer to our prayers" in Christian theology.

I agree most of the other Primaris names are awful, though.

"Everyone in 40K is wrong." - ADB 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Calling a unit an Intercessor and another unit an Interceptor was a mistake though. They sound too similar. Interceptor should be replaced with something else. Interceptor doesn't even sound like a type of infantry, more like a vehicle.
Edit : It turns out the name is actually inceptor. Which makes it even worse, because its easily confused with interceptor, which is easily confused with intercessor. It doesn't really make sense either, as an inceptor is another word for a beginner, and I don't see how inceptors are beginners. I don't see anything in their background about that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 12:14:51


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Made in gb
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Glasgow, Scotland

I was thinking about this today, the names bug the hell out of me.

Intercessors. Just sounds wrong. Sounds like they misspelled "Interceptor" and stuck with it. Also too close to "Interceptor" squads of the Grey Knights.

Incursors - based on the word "Incursion," but still clunky as all hell.

Infiltrators - the only truly acceptable name as it accurately describes their role without being a wierd made-up nonsense word.

Aggressors - based off "Aggression" but are probably the least aggressive units as they're just a mobile gun platform.

Reivers - a copyrightable version of "Reaver" so I'll give this one a pass

Inceptor - named like the movie "Inception," as mention by another poster, means "Begin." Except that only works if Inceptors fill the same role as Assault Marines in lore, being a far ranging, hard hitting vanguard force. Which they dont.


Eliminators - good but kinda bland.


Suppressors - again, accurately described, but 20mm cannons are not "suppressive fire." Should have been called something else.


Hellblasters - accurately named by a 5 year old.


Repulsor - someone misspelled "Repulsive" in the product brief and it stuck.

Repulsor Executioner - first off, in Imperial Vehicles, "Executioner" refers to having a plasma blastgun turret. Second, misspelling of "I'd rather be executed for heresy than market that repulsive thing." Not only were they executed, the name stuck.

Impulsor - misspelling of "maybe we were being impulsive about rebooting Space Marines?"


Mk X Power Armour - misspelling of "I'm Timmy and I'm 5!"
Tacticus Armour - a little too on the nose of me, given its thing is tactical adaptability to other forms of armour
Gravis armour - decent
Phobos armour - excellent. Named for the Greek God of Fear, Phobos, and given to Reivers, a stealthy terror troop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 12:18:40


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Good summation imo.

Dman137 wrote:
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By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

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Glasgow, Scotland

 Apologist wrote:
'Tactical', 'Terminator' etc. and so forth aren't inherently easier to remember than 'Intercessor' and 'Impulsor' – I think it's simple familiarity that makes them seem that way – so the main objection I have to the modern naming is not that they're obscure; but rather that the real-world terms often don't seem to relate to them. In short, they're not evocative.

Some of the new names work well – 'Infiltrators' is a good example of a familiar term that instantly describes what the squad does; as does 'Hellblasters' (even if I personally think that sounds a bit silly).

'Impulsors', however; or 'Inceptor'? Those terms just don't evoke any sort of interest. They are – obscure – English terms, but they sound bland; and have unclear associations.

Instead of names like that, I would have preferred GW to use codenames – 'Phobos', 'Gravis' and 'Tacticus' (and, to a certain extent, 'Rhino' and so forth) are non-English, and as a result, you immediately understand that this is in-world jargon. This piques your interest, and is a bit more engaging.

+++
A special note here for Intercessors, which I have grown to rather like. That's slightly obscure, but does have the excuse of evoking heavenly intervention, which is very fitting for the Angels of Death.

However, I remember thinking it was a daft name at first – it's purely familiarity that's got me being an apologist for it!



I think the main difference with old and new names, are, as you say, familiarity. But also, the names are simple descriptions that explain everything about the unit in a single word. Tactical Squads are just that, a tactical unit, a swiss army knife. Assault Marines assault the enemy in melee. Devastators devastating with their devastating heavy weaponry. Vanguard Vets and Sternguard Vets convey their position on the battlefield, either at the forefront or in the heart of your army. Terminators are just that, they appear to finish the job and delivery a crushing blow.

However, simply descriptions aren't enough, and its the iconic nature of the word that makes them notable. Terminator has an added bonus of drawing from the Terminator film franchise, and the horrifying, unrelenting murder that Schwarzaneggar brings.


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 Deadshot wrote:


Suppressors - again, accurately described, but 20mm cannons are not "suppressive fire." Should have been called something else.




I disagree. If someone is shooting a 20mm cannon at you you sure as hell are going to get down, find some cover and stay there. Which is the point of suppressing fire.
Besides, whilst it is certainly lethal against human infantry, there are tougher things out there in the 40k universe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 12:21:19


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Lots of names, some are overly similar, some sound silly, most are instantly forgettable.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I guess this will be an eye of the beholder, but I agree with the OP.

Tactical Marine - "tactical", so guessing some guy, maybe flexible on the battlefield? These are the baseline? Okay got it.
Assault Marine - guessing... a marine that assaults?
Devestators - guessing marines with heavier weapons?
Space Marine Scouts? Well, hold me back here, but I'm guessing....

I have no obvious idea what the difference should be for Intercessor/Inceptor/Incursor/Infiltrator/Invictor/Impulsor. In old money I would guess "infiltrators" could "infiltrate". The rest could mean anything.

Sure, there is no real reason you should "know" a Rhino is a transport, or that a Dreadnought is a sort of bipedal machine or that Sternguard are Sternguard. But... they are not all very similar.

I don't know. Deep down I just find this "stealth Primaris" release to be... daft. You are 8 foot tall superhumans wearing armour that belongs on a tank. You are not a Catachan playing at Rambo. Stripping things down - Phobos Armour/Invictor walker - just makes them look weak. Might just be me though. A marine should have a certain bulk - which to be fair, the intercessors have.
   
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 Asherian Command wrote:
So we have a lot of I's so far...

Invictius

INfilitrators,

Intercessors

Impulsor

Inceptors

Repulsor

Reviers?

Aggressors

Its so confusing and they sound horrid next to each other. If anything they should be renamed to be more in line with 40k or more associated with their roles that encompass it better. Intercessors are just Defender units and Intercessor is not a great name to encompas that.

It sounded like they wanted to go with cool sci-fi names that are easily copyrightable and sound strange and stupid.
.


You missed Incursors
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't mind.


Certainly a lot better than the Lighting-Storm-Tornado-Whirlwind-Thunder-Tempest-Typhoon bad weather fetish of old.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench






Yes, Deadshot makes the point about the words themselves being memorable – Terminator having a set group of associations, for example.

Apropos of nothing, beyond the discussion of Space Marine naming, it's interesting to note that the Tactical, Assault etc. designations were more generally applied in Rogue Trader – both the Imperial Army and Space Marines had Tactical squads, for example.

Nor were these terms fixed until after Epic: Space Marine – Devastator squads in particular seem to have changed from Support (the more common term used for heavy weapon troops etc. in the early period) at some point in between this artwork being commissioned, and the text being finalised. Note the slightly tenuous explanation for the Space Wolves!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/14 13:27:00


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 godardc wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
I have no problems with the names.

They sound more modern sci-fi, imo.


Except 40k ISN'T modern or sci fi or modern sci fi so shouldn't feel or sound like it.


how is 40k not sci-fi? sure theres a dip of fantasy with the whole warp aspect but its still a very much sci-fi setting. and im pretty sure hes said "moden sci-fi" as in "a more modern naming convention than they used to have"

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Made in ca
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Well, we can be thankful we did not start with "bigger" marine or "true-scale", I will take Primaris.

The names seem to get away from military style, see below link, it is kinda neat, this is just for electronic kit:
http://jptronics.org/Military/JANAP161/an.definition.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://jptronics.org/Military/JANAP161/an.definition.html
Or the more painful to read MIL standard:
http://ed-thelen.org/MIL-STD-196E.pdf
Lastly this for fun:
http://www.designation-systems.net/

Anyway, yeah, some standardized naming convention would be nice, I think they just put a bunch of cool words in a hat and piece them together.
I just put the 4 levels of "words" for all the space marine units and put a "RANDBETWEEN" in excel and had it piece together a few unit names (I am sure I can add more cool words but it is an example):

Thunderfire Hellblaster Storm Trooper
Primaris Bretheren Redeemer
Scout Redemptor Squad
Iron Intercessors Techmarine
Clad Vindicator
Drop Bretheren Terminator
Damned Combat Speeder
Assault Intercessors Tank
Emperor's Crusader Captain
Venerable Reiver Dreadnought
Contemptor Close Storm Hunter
Land Crusader Terminator
Whirlwind Raven Storm
Close Gunship
Contemptor Intercessors Stalker
Tactical Hellblaster Captain
Thunderfire Close Crusader Vindicator

Yeah, just put a bunch of cool words together, set on random and look for anything that stands out to you.
I guess I could say these names are "annoying" because they still have an utter lack of cool to them.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 13:45:21


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Stalker doesn't really stalk anything

Vindicator really doesn't describe anything, Sternguard same thing.

Hunter doesn't really scream AA defence

Riptide have nothing to do with water, devilfish isn't a fish, piranha is also not a fish, the onager is not a donkey. Geez it seems like some names don't match up and just sound cool. Sure you can get into the nitty gritty like how a Tau piranha is fast and should bite hard but it's just a name and I'm not gonna get that upset about it.
   
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 Apologist wrote:
While I'm not a fan of the majority of GW's naming conventions, at least they've moved beyond the awful style of 'Verbnoun nounverbers' used in the early days of Age of Sigmar.

Honestly? This. Other companies in "fantasy" did that for monsters in RPGs and even MMORPGs (I suspect the MMORPG in question was the inspiration) and it was annoying. Still yeah, some Primaris name makes no sense. Inceptor is plain wrong. Aggressor is too generic.
I agree intercessor is appropriate in light of the established setting. Which is kinda ironic for a unit that is kinda disregarding the established setting in its lore.
Also Hellblasters it's completely different from the others. Annihilators, Destructors, Incinerators... but then again they start to run out of names, I am sure the one i said are already taken!

For the Tau vehicles, that's just how we call it because we don't speak Tau. They just gave to these vehicles a water theme (Tau like elements) and the shape of some of them indeed remember rays, and similar "flat" Elasmobranchii.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/14 14:35:55


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Holy Terra

I think it's obvious some people disliking the names is simply an extension of them disliking the Primaris.

Some names are a bit similar, but after 5 years they'll all be second nature to most people.

The classic range has some silly names, like Sternguard. And the stalker is badly named. A fat, stationary tank doesn't do much stalking lol. Hunter works better with that hunter killer missile type thing, but it's still not great for a fat tank that doesn't move.


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 fraser1191 wrote:
Stalker doesn't really stalk anything

Vindicator really doesn't describe anything, Sternguard same thing.

Hunter doesn't really scream AA defence

Riptide have nothing to do with water, devilfish isn't a fish, piranha is also not a fish, the onager is not a donkey. Geez it seems like some names don't match up and just sound cool. Sure you can get into the nitty gritty like how a Tau piranha is fast and should bite hard but it's just a name and I'm not gonna get that upset about it.



Stalkers stalk the skies for enemy aircraft. They lie in wait to pounce.

Vindicator, from Vindication.

Vindication

the action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion.

proof that someone or something is right, reasonable, or justified.


I don't know about you, but that Demolisher Cannon pretty much clears all blame or suspicion of heresy, along with the surrounding 10 metres adjaent to the heresy. Also, its a gun that very clearly says "I'm right, you're wrong and you know it."

Sternguard, from Stern, or rear of a ship. They provide the counterbalance to the Vanguard, but in a cooler way than "Rearguard" which implies butts, or sacrificial cannon fodder.

Hunters fire missiles which literally hunt aircraft down.



Tau names on the other hand are just nicknames given by the Imperium, and they decided to go with ocean based names to mock the fishfaces. Orcas don't carry tons of smaller things inside them unless those things are dead. But the Orca dropship is big, powerful and roughly oblong. Mantas definitely don't have huge calibre orbital defence weaponry. But the Manta craft is exceedingly large and flat-ish. Hammedheads, like the shark, are deadly powerhouses. Others like the Devilfish and Piranha are just general names. Riptide and Stormsurge are again, ocean related and cool human codenames. Coldstar, Ghostkeel, Broadside, all just funky nicknames the Imperial Guard came up with for field use.

Orks are described literally in Orkish. At least the old vehicles were. Trukk is a truck. Battlewagon is a wagon fitted for battle. Deff Dread is a dreadnought that brings death. Killa Kans are cans with killing stuff added. Deffkoptas are copters that bring death. Warbikers and Buggies are bikes and buggies fitted for war. Stompas stompa and Gargants are gargantuan. Boys are just boys, nobs are nobs and the boss is the boss. Lootas loot, Flashgitz are flashy gits, MegaNobs are Mega nobs in mega armour. Skorchas scorch, wierdboyz are wierd.


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I do find it amusing that GW actually used "Intercessor" once just before 8th edition: "Ammitara Occult Intercession Cabal", singular "Intercessor", Thousand Sons sniper unit in 30k (released in book 7 four months before 8th edition).

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 Deadshot wrote:


I don't know about you, but that Demolisher Cannon pretty much clears all blame or suspicion of heresy, along with the surrounding 10 metres adjaent to the heresy. Also, its a gun that very clearly says "I'm right, you're wrong and you know it."

Is very, very difficult to argue against this one.

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